Guild Wars 2

So how exactly do you want to keep mesmer in pvp in the future?

Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game, and can be a good point holder at anything other than the top levels of tPvP.

A 1v1 mesmer cannot hold a point, other mesmers cannot hold points either vs any bow warrior or thieves.

Let’s start by nerfing the abominations that are warriors, thieves, and even some engie builds.

BlackBeard.2873:

Let’s start by nerfing the abominations that are warriors, thieves, and even some engie builds.

i agree to the fullest, mesmer would be at a very good spot in top tier if brainless spam-specs with low risk-high reward would recieve the necessary nerfs so this game could finally shift to a game that actually requires some skills and brainwork….

If thieves and warriors could not train mesmers into obvilion, mesmers could be in a much better place. Until then, Idk when we will be better.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If thieves and warriors could not train mesmers into obvilion, mesmers could be in a much better place. Until then, Idk when we will be better.

That also sounds like the problem that elemen…. every other class has at the moment.

Phantaram.1265:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If thieves and warriors could not train mesmers into obvilion, mesmers could be in a much better place. Until then, Idk when we will be better.

That also sounds like the problem that elemen…. every other class has at the moment.

glad we can all agree on that
if the leaked notes are true ele could become really powerful imo

i, as a thief, totally agree that my favourite prof is the main reason why mesmer and ele ( and other zerk builds aside, maybe, zerk necro) cannot be played succesfully in tPvP.

Tbh i believe that the best way to make other zerk proffs to fit in the meta is to make them having different roles than simple “roam and kill”.

In the old burst meta, mesmer was simply the best proff due to time warp, IoL and Portal, aka its TEAM UTILITY rather than pure damage.

This is the way it should be.

And in order to do this, we need to nerf warriors: being the best " all rounders" they simply put to shame other professions regardin “risk reward” ratio.

Because, let’s be honest, thieves has always been there as the best roaming proff, and nobody will take their role: thieves used to train all other glass cannons from the beginning, nobody complained in top tier PvP ( aside the full quickness oneshot, which was really broken).

And notice that thieves have received nothing but nerfs in these months.

Mrbig.8019:

i, as a thief, totally agree that my favourite prof is the main reason why mesmer and ele ( and other zerk builds aside, maybe, zerk necro) cannot be played succesfully in tPvP.

Tbh i believe that the best way to make other zerk proffs to fit in the meta is to make them having different roles than simple “roam and kill”.

In the old burst meta, mesmer was simply the best proff due to time warp, IoL and Portal, aka its TEAM UTILITY rather than pure damage.

This is the way it should be.

And in order to do this, we need to nerf warriors: being the best " all rounders" they simply put to shame other professions regardin “risk reward” ratio.

Because, let’s be honest, thieves has always been there as the best roaming proff, and nobody will take their role: thieves used to train all other glass cannons from the beginning, nobody complained in top tier PvP ( aside the full quickness oneshot, which was really broken).

And notice that thieves have received nothing but nerfs in these months.

Pretty much this.
Also people should learn that having great survivability vs both condi and power while also providing very high damage and team utility through cc or other means is not okay(looking at you s/x thieves and hambow warriors).

Does Mesmer need some buffs? Sure it does, but it’s not nearly as bad as everybody seems to think that it is.

Vuh.1328:

Mrbig.8019:

i, as a thief, totally agree that my favourite prof is the main reason why mesmer and ele ( and other zerk builds aside, maybe, zerk necro) cannot be played succesfully in tPvP.

Tbh i believe that the best way to make other zerk proffs to fit in the meta is to make them having different roles than simple “roam and kill”.

In the old burst meta, mesmer was simply the best proff due to time warp, IoL and Portal, aka its TEAM UTILITY rather than pure damage.

This is the way it should be.

And in order to do this, we need to nerf warriors: being the best " all rounders" they simply put to shame other professions regardin “risk reward” ratio.

Because, let’s be honest, thieves has always been there as the best roaming proff, and nobody will take their role: thieves used to train all other glass cannons from the beginning, nobody complained in top tier PvP ( aside the full quickness oneshot, which was really broken).

And notice that thieves have received nothing but nerfs in these months.

Pretty much this.
Also people should learn that having great survivability vs both condi and power while also providing very high damage and team utility through cc or other means is not okay(looking at you s/x thieves and hambow warriors).

tbh, trickery thieves ( S/P-D/P) are very weak against condies: 1 full wipe ( lyssa) every 45 secs and 3 condi cleanse tied to a stunbreak ( shadowstep), with S/P being quite better tough sacrificing a lot for it ( condi cleanse on inf return: if you dump your ini to cleanse, you deal no damage).

Thieves are shifting toward trickery, that is tied to higher risk-reward than dumb S/D acro.

Again, we need to put things in perspective: thieves have the best mobility, so they’ll ALWAYS be the best roamers.

Ofc they need to be strong 1vs1 ( it was aNet vision to make them like this) so there’s really no point in trying to fit other proffs into this archetype, because they’ll fall under thieves.

Old burst meta mesmer is the perfect example of a glass cannon being brought into a team for different reasons rather than pure damage: other classes should shift towards this kind of archetype.

If other classes could bring different kind of support instead of simple raw damage, this, along with wars nerf ( because warriors existance creates an “easy” way to avoid such things) could bring TONS of diversity.

Staff ele is also a good example, tough not viable.

aNet should start making things right before it’s too late.

Sensotix.4106:

So how exactly do you want to keep mesmer in pvp in the future?

I am starting to think that they don’t.
Considering the changes, they have announced so far, I doubt they have understood the issue at all.

Should Thieves and Warriors get nerfed without being careful, Mesmer will become a cancer class again. Would be great if Mesmers had higher risk in attacking because before things such as zerker stance even came into existence, EVERYONE knew that Mesmer was the most tanky class without investing in toughness or soldier amulet.

But w/e, people who think being able to have Zerk Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain while attacking is fair ruined this game anyways. Don’t even get me started on Mesmer Phase Retreat, people who think that’s a balanced skill most likely fail on games that don’t have “nine-lives mechanics.”

Cancer class will remain cancer. Instead of buffs a re-work would be better. Or keep them nerfed to the ground DPS-wise.

Amir.1570:

Should Thieves and Warriors get nerfed without being careful, Mesmer will become a cancer class again. Would be great if Mesmers had higher risk in attacking because before things such as zerker stance even came into existence, EVERYONE knew that Mesmer was the most tanky class without investing in toughness or soldier amulet.

But w/e, people who think being able to have Zerk Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain while attacking is fair ruined this game anyways. Don’t even get me started on Mesmer Phase Retreat, people who think that’s a balanced skill most likely fail on games that don’t have “nine-lives mechanics.”

Cancer class will remain cancer. Instead of buffs a re-work would be better. Or keep them nerfed to the ground DPS-wise.

the tankiest class. hahahahaha. yeah sure that light armor is soo awesome. i…dont even know how to respond to such a clueless comment…..go play the class and then lets see how tanky it is for u. go play in a zerg with dat super 30/30/30/30/30 tank mesmer with dat awesome dps and staff, because staff has suuuuuucha high dps it one shots every class out there.
i mean its not risky at all to be a light armor that has 1v1 skills and has to choose whether to do dps or be tanky. u wanna be tanky, u wont have crit, u wanna have high dps u got 900 toughness. no risk? trololololo

selan.8354:

the tankiest class. hahahahaha. yeah sure that light armor is soo awesome. i…dont even know how to respond to such a clueless comment

Selan, he was saying tankiness without investing in toughness, alluding to the mutliple ways mesmers have of avoiding damage inherently (lots of dodging, evade skill on low CD, some invis, an invuln on shatter, etc), all without taking any toughness. Of course, thieves have taken that to a new extreme, especially with buffed init, being able to evade for days, stealth on demand, and survive in a fight as well as some tanks, all without spending any investment in defense.

I think the nerf to vigor would help with the complaints he is putting forward. It doesn’t, however, fix the cancer that is thieves currently. (~20s of continuous dodging)

Amir.1570:

Should Thieves and Warriors get nerfed without being careful, Mesmer will become a cancer class again. Would be great if Mesmers had higher risk in attacking because before things such as zerker stance even came into existence, EVERYONE knew that Mesmer was the most tanky class without investing in toughness or soldier amulet.

But w/e, people who think being able to have Zerk Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain while attacking is fair ruined this game anyways. Don’t even get me started on Mesmer Phase Retreat, people who think that’s a balanced skill most likely fail on games that don’t have “nine-lives mechanics.”

Cancer class will remain cancer. Instead of buffs a re-work would be better. Or keep them nerfed to the ground DPS-wise.

nerfing them to the ground dps wise is not a good ideas since mesmer is the class with the lowest dps of all roamer classes in the current game therefore i would rather suggest reworking it since i am also not a big fan of relying so much on phantasm damage and only being able to play one build

style.6173:

Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game, and can be a good point holder at anything other than the top levels of tPvP.

You’re a thief, which makes this post really funny. If mesmer was the best 1v1 class they would still be holding back point with portal. There’s a reason every top mesmer has rerolled thief.

Mrbig.8019:

tbh, trickery thieves ( S/P-D/P) are very weak against condies: 1 full wipe ( lyssa) every 45 secs and 3 condi cleanse tied to a stunbreak ( shadowstep), with S/P being quite better tough sacrificing a lot for it ( condi cleanse on inf return: if you dump your ini to cleanse, you deal no damage).

Thieves are shifting toward trickery, that is tied to higher risk-reward than dumb S/D acro.

Again, we need to put things in perspective: thieves have the best mobility, so they’ll ALWAYS be the best roamers.

Ofc they need to be strong 1vs1 ( it was aNet vision to make them like this) so there’s really no point in trying to fit other proffs into this archetype, because they’ll fall under thieves.

Old burst meta mesmer is the perfect example of a glass cannon being brought into a team for different reasons rather than pure damage: other classes should shift towards this kind of archetype.

If other classes could bring different kind of support instead of simple raw damage, this, along with wars nerf ( because warriors existance creates an “easy” way to avoid such things) could bring TONS of diversity.

Staff ele is also a good example, tough not viable.

aNet should start making things right before it’s too late.

Imho lacking “mandatory” interdependency is a huge problem. I know, it is what many ppl want (I am certain some warriors want it that way for sure). But it is this lacking interdependency that causes the strong 1vs1-builds/classes. You/we have to look at the circumstances.

And that brings me to the bolded part: Can you elaborate on, what you mean? Because being strong 1vs1 does include a lot of unfortunate things, if you have to take every possible counter into consideration, and that is frankly where I feel, that a build like S/D-evade-spam does cause some un-fun mechanisms – not to mention ragebursts and headaches

I hope I make sense; if not I can elaborate on it.

Vuh.1328:

Pretty much this.
Also people should learn that having great survivability vs both condi and power while also providing very high damage and team utility through cc or other means is not okay(looking at you s/x thieves and hambow warriors).

Of course I get how warriors fit this description, but Sword thieves? Really? Yeah, they have high damage, that’s obvious. They also, of course, have some degree of team utility via a few widely spread tactics and traits, like Bountiful Theft and TotCrime, or Signet of Agility or Cluster Bomb + Ranger’s Steal, but that’s really as far as it goes.

S/X thieves of both types can suffer significantly against an opponent who knows when each is vulnerable, such as at certain points during casts, at strategically important points in battle (healing, positioning, etc), and so on.

Against condis, S/X thieves can be punished massively, especially if the opponent makes good use of movement-impeding conditions. The fact that thieves are less able to do the one thing they so desperately need (be mobile) is a massive hamper to their abilities. Against power, again, knowing the cast times and weak spots in those thief builds can allow you to kill a thief very, very quickly.

And team utility? There’s a reason why S/X thieves are commonly considered solo roamers. If anything, they have some of the worst utility in the game. To think otherwise is borderline insane, to say the least.

style.6173:

Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game

… I heard this so many times.
But unfortunately it is not the case….and by far.
I would say that mesmer is one of the weakiest 1v1 class in the game with ele. They are indeed the only professions who have a hardcounter: thieves.
On the other hand it is not easy for them to manage other classes: necro / war / engies / ranger are far from being “piecies of cake”.

style.6173:

and can be a good point holder at anything other than the top levels of tPvP.

In other words, it is not good at hodling points.

Mrbig.8019:

i, as a thief, totally agree that my favourite prof is the main reason why mesmer and ele ( and other zerk builds aside, maybe, zerk necro) cannot be played succesfully in tPvP.

Tbh i believe that the best way to make other zerk proffs to fit in the meta is to make them having different roles than simple “roam and kill”.

In the old burst meta, mesmer was simply the best proff due to time warp, IoL and Portal, aka its TEAM UTILITY rather than pure damage.

This is the way it should be.

And in order to do this, we need to nerf warriors: being the best " all rounders" they simply put to shame other professions regardin “risk reward” ratio.

Because, let’s be honest, thieves has always been there as the best roaming proff, and nobody will take their role: thieves used to train all other glass cannons from the beginning, nobody complained in top tier PvP ( aside the full quickness oneshot, which was really broken).

And notice that thieves have received nothing but nerfs in these months.

Very much agreed with this.

In an ideal world, I would love to see warriors balanced so that they either are a glassy, high burst spec (probably would be strong in low level PvP, but weaker against more skilled opponents), or a more stun/daze CC oriented bunker (better for coordinated groups and high level PvP).

Warriors really have the potential to be the linebackers of PvP, but as it stands now, they do amazing damage while maintaining incredible sustain. Maybe if they had a long cooldown ability to strip stability, something like this could be viable. Having warriors as a linebacker-like warrior would fit the warrior style of play while providing a viable role that doesn’t dominate at everything.

Poxxia.1547:

Mrbig.8019:

tbh, trickery thieves ( S/P-D/P) are very weak against condies: 1 full wipe ( lyssa) every 45 secs and 3 condi cleanse tied to a stunbreak ( shadowstep), with S/P being quite better tough sacrificing a lot for it ( condi cleanse on inf return: if you dump your ini to cleanse, you deal no damage).

Thieves are shifting toward trickery, that is tied to higher risk-reward than dumb S/D acro.

Again, we need to put things in perspective: thieves have the best mobility, so they’ll ALWAYS be the best roamers.

Ofc they need to be strong 1vs1 ( it was aNet vision to make them like this) so there’s really no point in trying to fit other proffs into this archetype, because they’ll fall under thieves.

Old burst meta mesmer is the perfect example of a glass cannon being brought into a team for different reasons rather than pure damage: other classes should shift towards this kind of archetype.

If other classes could bring different kind of support instead of simple raw damage, this, along with wars nerf ( because warriors existance creates an “easy” way to avoid such things) could bring TONS of diversity.

Staff ele is also a good example, tough not viable.

aNet should start making things right before it’s too late.

Imho lacking “mandatory” interdependency is a huge problem. I know, it is what many ppl want (I am certain some warriors want it that way for sure). But it is this lacking interdependency that causes the strong 1vs1-builds/classes. You/we have to look at the circumstances.

And that brings me to the bolded part: Can you elaborate on, what you mean? Because being strong 1vs1 does include a lot of unfortunate things, if you have to take every possible counter into consideration, and that is frankly where I feel, that a build like S/D-evade-spam does cause some un-fun mechanisms – not to mention ragebursts and headaches

I hope I make sense; if not I can elaborate on it.

Thief is strong 1vs1 but also squishy, its point presence is almost irrelevant ( unlike wars, with big persistent AoEs and invulnerabilities) and can be countered by almost all classes ( S/D acro is another story but really few people still run it in EU, altough it’s by far thief best 1vs1 build).

Every class can kill a thief 1vs1, but they can also lose, and this is really how it should be.

But if you match strong 1vs1 capabilities with the best mobility and stealth you have an unmatched roamer.

So there’s really no point in forcing other proffs into this role.

Let’s make them different than a simple " raw damage dealer" like the thief.

Mrbig.8019:

Thief is strong 1vs1 but also squishy, its point presence is almost irrelevant ( unlike wars, with big persistent AoEs and invulnerabilities) and can be countered by almost all classes ( S/D acro is another story but really few people still run it in EU, altough it’s by far thief best 1vs1 build).

Every class can kill a thief 1vs1, but they can also lose, and this is really how it should be.

But if you match strong 1vs1 capabilities with the best mobility and stealth you have an unmatched roamer.

So there’s really no point in forcing other proffs into this role.

Let’s make them different than a simple " raw damage dealer" like the thief.

Hey Mrbig
Ok, you chose to put the emphasis on “roamer” and not “1vs1”. And then I agree. The implications of being a strong 1vs1-class is just not negligible, which some ppl tend to make it out to be. But yeah – agree with you.

\o/ ohhh i really hope to get something i can use in wvw raids….veilbot duty is really stressing me out……

Mesmers on the minimap. When there are more than 1 mesmer on the enemy team, GL tryin to get some functionality out of the minimap.

WTF were u thinking with this blunder?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

+1 here. But i don’t hope this is gettin’ too much. The Mesmer isn’t rlly weak, he is very insane support for the team (Portal, Chaosstorm), high dps through GS and shatterbuilds and much mobility (blink, stealth). The only problem is, that this class is countered by the currently metaclasses like Warriors. If you buff this class too much, while nerving the current metaclasses, good Mesmers (i know there are not many in these times) will way over the top too OP!
So the Mesmer needs no buff, other classes need to be nerved a little bit, so that this class is a bit more viable again.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

Fail confirmed once again then thanks Seen as mesmer isn’t bad at all. You sacrifice survivabilty for damage and you sacrifice mobility for survivability. It is balanced or even too good. Other stuff like thief, spirit rangers and warriors are TOO STRONG because they can have all of the above in 1 spec. They all have high mobility, incredible sustain and insane damage. So instead of actually nerfing all the bs power creep in the game you will buff mesmer. How is it hard for anet to grasp this? It is amazing. Literally everyone says this and yet you guys have your head in the sand and just keep buff buff buff.

Hey Powerr,

That’s cool to hear. What role does the balance team see the Mesmer holding? There’s a thread on the balance forum asking that same question: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Mesmer-Why-am-I-Such-a-Mis-fit/first#post3682301

Where do they fit in?

If they are supposed to be roamers, then I’m in agreement with Lordrosicky – if I had my druthers I’d much prefer see warriors and thieves brought back in line than see other classes buffed up.

Or just make them as powerful roamers as thieves and I’ll be happy.

ANet TY ! Plz give us Mesmers more mobility (access to swiftness) or more deceptive skills (like decoy and mirror images) to really toy around with enemy’s mind! We also lack decent dmg during teamfights since clone AI shatter isn’t accurate ( shatters hit wrong/multiple targets )

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

I’m looking forward to these new and flavorful tool-tips for underwater skills you guys are planning.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

I guess one can only hope this is true.
It would be great if this “nice stuff” is related to utilities/traits/weapons and does not include yet another broken phantasm.

Sensotix.4106:

So how exactly do you want to keep mesmer in pvp in the future?

Hey Sensotix – I thought you rerolled Thief.

Clownmug.8357:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

I’m looking forward to these new and flavorful tool-tips for underwater skills you guys are planning.

lmao

Kicast.1459:

style.6173:

Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game

… I heard this so many times.
But unfortunately it is not the case….and by far.
I would say that mesmer is one of the weakiest 1v1 class in the game with ele. They are indeed the only professions who have a hardcounter: thieves.
On the other hand it is not easy for them to manage other classes: necro / war / engies / ranger are far from being “piecies of cake”.

style.6173:

and can be a good point holder at anything other than the top levels of tPvP.

In other words, it is not good at hodling points.

What? Mesmer is best 1v1 class. That’s not even up for debate.

What a mesmer lacks is the ability to help a team. They are the biggest solo class at the moment.

things i wish for my mesmer

• delete mainhand sword on thief^^^^
• make mantras more viable like 1 stack per crit or shatter (max 5) with internal 5-10 sec CD, give aegis while casting a mantra
• protection for chaos armor (again)

edit: oh and before i forget^^ change colour on mantra for condi remove – i Can´t see the number on it

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sensotix.4106:

So how exactly do you want to keep mesmer in pvp in the future?

Hey Sensotix – I thought you rerolled Thief.

His mind screams to play slink, but his heart screams louder to stay pink.

Everybody who moves away from their main doesn’t enjoy it as much.

I hope they’re taking us more towards Lockdown specs as it’d create more of a specific role for the Mesmer. Perhaps they would give us some of the GW1 abilities that the Mesmer had there:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Old-friends-Skills-from-GW1

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

You mean more than the single nerf (aka critical infusion) we get in the next balance patch? Or is this the balance patch after that one :/?

mesmer actually double profits from the sigil buff

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

I don’t play this game any more because you guys keep buffing the wrong things.

Blackjack.5621:

mesmer actually double profits from the sigil buff

Why? Because we have 2 weapon sets?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

[enter class here] are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

someone really needs to make a Tshirt of all of these Anet responses XD

In the near future™.
We’re looking into it™.
Stay tuned™.
- ArenaNet, LLC. and NC Interactive, LLC. All rights reserved.

style.6173:

What? Mesmer is best 1v1 class. That’s not even up for debate.

Mesmer vs Thief ? No debate ?
Indeed you are right…according to top players like senso / suppcutie and helseth there is no debate. But they surprisingly do not have the same conclusion than you.
You should give them your tips.

DanyK.3842:

In the near future™.
We’re looking into it™.
Stay tuned™.
- ArenaNet, LLC. and NC Interactive, LLC. All rights reserved.

Coming in the horizon™
Too soon to give details™
Put the game where we want it to be™
My favorite : Let’s cross fingers™

I can’t wait… those tool-tip fixes always create a flutter of excitement in my belly.

On a serious note though, it’s a kind of sad state of affair that when ANet eludes to some interesting changes, the community as a whole is so disillusioned (appropriate word for the class, I’d say) with the class and the management of the Mesmer and class balance in general that they just don’t believe that any positive changes will materialise.

If a game is at such a state with its community, it’s on a very slippery slope indeed… I hope the big feature patch can restore confidence, create a clear role for the Mesmer and restore a place in the Meta of the various game-modes for us.

Alissah.9281:

Blackjack.5621:

mesmer actually double profits from the sigil buff

Why? Because we have 2 weapon sets?

devs mentioned that you can use 2 sigils on 2handed weapons AND you might be able to use 2 active sigils aswell + other classes get nerfed so mesmer is in a good place.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

Last time you said this we waited 3 months and got a buff to 2 mantras which haven’t seen the light of day.

I’ll see it when i believe it.