Guild Wars 2

Not saying its OP but is it fine for arenanet to have afk specs that allow you to eat dinner while playing?

- spirit ranger
- MM necro
- PU mesmer

Im just asking because I’d rather fight an actual player than an afk person.

Lol.. kitten A t s e, do we have to go through this every other day? xD
A, Spirit rangers aren’t “afk specs”, spirits have a pretty long cast time and they don’t attack. They’re just buffs. Unless shouts and other boon-related builds are afk specs too, spirit ranger isn’t. They’re just powerful, and suffer from animations all looking alike on short bow. They press buttons to win though, even if you can’t tell that a split-green poison shot, a jump back, a daze shot and a snare are something other than SB #1, doesn’t mean they’re only pressing 1. Not that it matters, thieves are the kings of 1 button combos.

MM, has tons of downsides to its passive damage. It has basically no passive defense (outside of DS, which for any MM build actually weakens you the longer you stay in it because you can’t control pets, apply layers of CC, and you give free time for enemies to kill your pets) . I’d love to have evade on every other attack I have, stability, stealth, etc, I guess not all builds play the same, oh my.

PU Mesmer, don’t care. It can burn in a fire. Literally the only build in the ENTIRE game that I can say I actually “hate”. Condi damage + stealth + ai scaling with stats applying massive condi damage doing actually GOOD damage themselves, weakness spam, perma cripple and the Mesmer never once having to try to engage in the fight themselves is pretty lame. Let alone the actual PU trait itself. At least MM has some sort of relation to their AI (MM ccing so AI isn’t useless).

That’s my two cents, BAI! See you in the duel rooms (lol)

ye ronpierce and you are always the guy defending this crap – WE KNOW

still OP is right

• all this AI on screen is kitten annoying
• all this AI is toooo much passiv play
• all this AI make it impossible to react to ANIMATIONS cause no human can watch all this clutter
• all this AI makes way tooo much DMG (atm even more cause AI buggy) for the owner dont have to press anything for it anymore after he spawned all this crap

In a Game where players have to react to animations is no room for so much AI when wanna be competive

Yes, passive play is bad.

So lets remove all signets from the game, lets remove banners, anything that is summoned, boons, conditions, defensive specs, healing, auto attacks, any proc that doesn’t rely on you pressing a button, any buff, all AoE, and downed state, and we’ll all just have berzerker only naked power builds 5v5 mid (unless 5v5 is too hard, we can change that too) and whoever has the largest kitten at the the end wins.

Seriously though, these topics are old, ANet obviously isn’t going to nerf AI just because clicking the right target is too hard for you, or because your super skillful build is actually awful.

Romek.4201:

ye ronpierce and you are always the guy defending this crap – WE KNOW

still OP is right

• all this AI on screen is kitten annoying
• all this AI is toooo much passiv play
• all this AI make it impossible to react to ANIMATIONS cause no human can watch all this clutter
• all this AI makes way tooo much DMG (atm even more cause AI buggy) for the owner dont have to press anything for it anymore after he spawned all this crap

In a Game where players have to react to animations is no room for so much AI when wanna be competive

I don’t know man.. I did a dungeon.. I feel that I have an advantage because I can outsmart something that runs at me slowly.. Call me crazy.. But can’t you just kite the mobs and kill the person? No excuse for PU mes.. Those are OP as Kitten.

Also, I’ve never died to a Spirit ranger, since when have they been considered OP or afk classes?

MM needs to go.

Forgetting Phantasm Mesmers.

Storm’s just mad because I can stand still and kill his thief with minion mancer

MM necro had been unjustly nerfed and is balanced now.

just kill the minions and the necro will die quickly.

@OP:

The specs that you mentioned need an even larger reduction. ANET has said they want to lessen the amount of skill-less (passive) play. My hope is that we will see these specs nerfed more.

ronpierce.2760:

Lol.. kitten A t s e, do we have to go through this every other day? xD
A, Spirit rangers aren’t “afk specs”, spirits have a pretty long cast time and they don’t attack. They’re just buffs. Unless shouts and other boon-related builds are afk specs too, spirit ranger isn’t. They’re just powerful, and suffer from animations all looking alike on short bow. They press buttons to win though, even if you can’t tell that a split-green poison shot, a jump back, a daze shot and a snare are something other than SB #1, doesn’t mean they’re only pressing 1. Not that it matters, thieves are the kings of 1 button combos.

MM, has tons of downsides to its passive damage. It has basically no passive defense (outside of DS, which for any MM build actually weakens you the longer you stay in it because you can’t control pets, apply layers of CC, and you give free time for enemies to kill your pets) . I’d love to have evade on every other attack I have, stability, stealth, etc, I guess not all builds play the same, oh my.

PU Mesmer, don’t care. It can burn in a fire. Literally the only build in the ENTIRE game that I can say I actually “hate”. Condi damage + stealth + ai scaling with stats applying massive condi damage doing actually GOOD damage themselves, weakness spam, perma cripple and the Mesmer never once having to try to engage in the fight themselves is pretty lame. Let alone the actual PU trait itself. At least MM has some sort of relation to their AI (MM ccing so AI isn’t useless).

That’s my two cents, BAI! See you in the duel rooms (lol)

Sorry ronpierce, I know you are the best MM and you like your petting zoo but I’m not necessairly asking for nerfs, they could even buff it but the minions shouldn’t just attack like that passivly. The necro should have the full control over the minions, that way it will buff good MM necros and nerf really bad ones.

This should apply to all the AI in the game. And btw spirit ranger is the worst of all. Their ’’burst’’ comes from the shortbow auto-attack. I’m always asking myself how are they doing to play spirit ranger. 1111111 must be boring as kitten.

The 1111 on necro is mandatory, what else can a necro do?

Almost every necro skills have a long cast time.

Sesundar.3501:

The 1111 on necro is mandatory, what else can a necro do?

Almost every necro skills have a long cast time.

Yep… Life blast being 1.3 seconds between hits and really horrible detection of a person being “in front of you” to cast, all other utilities having absurdly long CDs not worth the wait, generally speaking, its no wonder MM is popular. I too wish the pet actives hit harder and MM got buffed, but at the cost of some minion damage. That’d be great, but we’re talkinga bout anet. they don’t fix stuff fairly. They either overbuff or kill stuff entirely, they don’t shift power properly. :P

Minion Necro is the only spec here which can literally stand in place and not touch anything while still dealing significant damage to an opponent.

Now, Minion Necro could be a spec involving skilled gameplay if the passive damage was removed from the minions and minions had more utility. For example, if Shadow Fiend was an AoE blind and short chill. If Bone Minions exploded into a cloud of weakness and poison. If Bone Fiend’s immobilize had a reasonable cast time.

Right now the only truly well designed minion is probably Flesh Wurm, where it offers reasonable utility and damages only if the enemy is within range and chooses not to kill it.

As for spirit Ranger, I would actually prefer Spirits to work like this:

Instead of having passive abilities, spirits passive are combined into their current passives, for example, Sun Spirit would look like:

20 second cooldown, your sun spirit blinds all enemies nearby, you and allie’s next attacks do 4 seconds of burning. This ‘burning attack’ would appear on the rangers bar as the current sun spirit passive icon.

This preserves the sun spirit’s basic function, without even a percentage nerf, but adds a LOT of counterplay and skillful play. Say my team has an enemy down, I hit my sun spirit, blinding the enemy team and applying lots of burning to my team’s cleave.

The other spirits could be reworked in exactly the same way, although there might need to be some rebalancing done to cooldowns and such.

Frost Spirit might look like this:

20 second CD, your frost spirit chills nearby enemies for 5 seconds (pulsing), you and your teammates next attack does 50% more damage

Suddenly frost spirit is actually viable for burst comps and again, the former passive is made into something cool, and noticeable. Imagine a zerker ranger/thief frost spirit duo
—————————————————-

As for PU mesmers, the solution is pretty simple: summoning a phantasm from stealth should cause reveal, as it is an attack which does damage. Problem SOLVED

infantrydiv.1620:

Snip

I understand your proposal, I would love for necro to be more active. All of necro skills need better cast time. Even for wurm, I can’t use it in battle, even placing it far away feels stupid. That skill should have a 1/4 cast time, so it can be used in battle. All tele skills are already instant. I want to love necro, but it’s too slow, it needs more mobility.

infantrydiv.1620:

Minion Necro is the only spec here which can literally stand in place and not touch anything while still dealing significant damage to an opponent.

wow. such fabrication.
much lies.

i dare you to play a minion master necro just by standing there, and not pressing any buttons.

let me know how many seconds you survive before they butcher all of your minions quickly and put you down.

]Now, Minion Necro could be a spec involving skilled gameplay if the passive damage was removed from the minions and minions had more utility.

this is an absurd and unreasonable change.
totally not needed as well.

currently, the minions do some damage and have some utility.
this is working fine.

the minions are not that hard to burst down, once the minions are down, the mm necro goes down rather quickly as well.

….

honestly, have you even played a mm necro yourself?
i know you play a ranger since i encountered your ranger in game before though.
have not met you again in the game since.

Sesundar.3501:

infantrydiv.1620:

Snip

I understand your proposal, I would love for necro to be more active. All of necro skills need better cast time. Even for wurm, I can’t use it in battle, even placing it far away feels stupid. That skill should have a 1/4 cast time, so it can be used in battle. All tele skills are already instant. I want to love necro, but it’s too slow, it needs more mobility.

I think without as much passive damage, minion cast times could be significantly decreased.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

infantrydiv.1620:

Minion Necro is the only spec here which can literally stand in place and not touch anything while still dealing significant damage to an opponent.

wow. such fabrication.
much lies.

i dare you to play a minion master necro just by standing there, and not pressing any buttons.

let me know how many seconds you survive before they butcher all of your minions quickly and put you down.

]Now, Minion Necro could be a spec involving skilled gameplay if the passive damage was removed from the minions and minions had more utility.

this is an absurd and unreasonable change.
totally not needed as well.

currently, the minions do some damage and have some utility.
this is working fine.

the minions are not that hard to burst down, once the minions are down, the mm necro goes down rather quickly as well.

….

honestly, have you even played a mm necro yourself?
i know you play a ranger since i encountered your ranger in game before though.
have not met you again in the game since.

I’ve played minion necro a bit in solo queue (where i could consistently win 2v1s with only a beginners acquaintance with the spec), and I’ve come across enough clueless minion masters to know that the spec is probably the most reward for the smallest amount of effort in the game right now.

Maybe I slightly exaggerated, but yknow, a minion master can easily take away 75% of a thief’s health with one CC and a bunch of passive damage from the minions.

Not only is Minion Master absurdly easy to win 1v1s with, it’s also my #1 candidate for screen clutter currently, other than mesmer. And mesmer was intended to be like that.

You play warrior. Warrior with hammer/longbow is probably one of the very best counters to minion master as earthshaker can stun multiple minions at once while combustive shot eats away at their health. For people not playing tanky AoE-CC based specs, minion master is a nightmare.

In fact, other than spamming AoE, minion master has zero counterplay. Zero. A good minion master with life force can absolutely murder you if you try to apply focused DPS. Asura minion masters are impossible to see as well due to the fact that some of their minions are actually larger than they are.

Minion Master is not fine at all, and has my vote for the poorest designed spec in the game right now.

Now, is Minion Master “viable” in top level team queue? Maybe not. However, it’s one of the most annoying things to play against given all of the facts I’ve just listed.

If Necro minions were tankier, dealing less damage, but offering more team utility, they might find a legitimate use other than being a solo queue troll build that should never lose a 1v1 when played right.

a t s e.9614:

Not saying its OP but is it fine for arenanet to have afk specs that allow you to eat dinner while playing?

- spirit ranger
- MM necro
- PU mesmer

Im just asking because I’d rather fight an actual player than an afk person.

I think you should take Spirit Ranger out. Without enough brains you can make them cry. MM necro on other hand, when you kill their pets, they gain deathshroud so even if you drop them low, you still have to chew through DS to kill them.

PU mesmer, condis can kill them and they can’t hold a point for the life of them.

Minions deal 1.5k – 2k DPS fully traited, assuming they hit every single attack with the target standing still and all minions alive. Also over 1/3rd of the damage is centered on Flesh Golem, so if you kill a single minion you can lower the minion DPS to sub 1k if you aren’t a zerker thief.

It is very easy to do nothing and still succeed at low levels. I’m all for shifting large amounts of power over from passive to actives, however I really don’t think people would stop there. They’d just realize that any decent MM is just as strong if not stronger, and then finally it might dawn on them that they never actually wanted balance in the first place, they just wanted to have an easier fight. As it is now the truly strong minions are the ones that are already like this (bone minions are by far the strongest non-elite minion, and blood fiend, the most passive, is absolute garbage).

Bhawb.7408:

Minions deal 1.5k – 2k DPS fully traited, assuming they hit every single attack with the target standing still and all minions alive. Also over 1/3rd of the damage is centered on Flesh Golem, so if you kill a single minion you can lower the minion DPS to sub 1k if you aren’t a zerker thief.

It is very easy to do nothing and still succeed at low levels. I’m all for shifting large amounts of power over from passive to actives, however I really don’t think people would stop there. They’d just realize that any decent MM is just as strong if not stronger, and then finally it might dawn on them that they never actually wanted balance in the first place, they just wanted to have an easier fight. As it is now the truly strong minions are the ones that are already like this (bone minions are by far the strongest non-elite minion, and blood fiend, the most passive, is absolute garbage).

Again, if:

-Minion Master had telegraphed attacks
-Didn’t achieve most of it’s DPS from passive damage
-Wasn’t absurdly tanky compared to the damage it put out
-Relied on properly timed active abilities to succeed

Then, there would be no problem.

Oh, and if the trait where minions explode unblockably on death was removed.

One problem with minions will always be that it is pretty much impossible to watch what each minion, and the necromancer is doing, at the same time. I would much rather see traits devoted to specific minions, rather than overall dps or health increases. This would help encourage necromancers to bring minions for specific purposes or builds, rather than all at once.

Like everything you guys said could be taken from MM to Mesmer 1:1

infantrydiv.1620:

Minion Necro is the only spec here which can literally stand in place and not touch anything while still dealing significant damage to an opponent.

Now, Minion Necro could be a spec involving skilled gameplay if the passive damage was removed from the minions and minions had more utility. For example, if Shadow Fiend was an AoE blind and short chill. If Bone Minions exploded into a cloud of weakness and poison. If Bone Fiend’s immobilize had a reasonable cast time.

Right now the only truly well designed minion is probably Flesh Wurm, where it offers reasonable utility and damages only if the enemy is within range and chooses not to kill it.

---

As for spirit Ranger, I would actually prefer Spirits to work like this:

Instead of having passive abilities, spirits passive are combined into their current passives, for example, Sun Spirit would look like:

20 second cooldown, your sun spirit blinds all enemies nearby, you and allie’s next attacks do 4 seconds of burning. This ‘burning attack’ would appear on the rangers bar as the current sun spirit passive icon.

This preserves the sun spirit’s basic function, without even a percentage nerf, but adds a LOT of counterplay and skillful play. Say my team has an enemy down, I hit my sun spirit, blinding the enemy team and applying lots of burning to my team’s cleave.

The other spirits could be reworked in exactly the same way, although there might need to be some rebalancing done to cooldowns and such.

Frost Spirit might look like this:

20 second CD, your frost spirit chills nearby enemies for 5 seconds (pulsing), you and your teammates next attack does 50% more damage

Suddenly frost spirit is actually viable for burst comps and again, the former passive is made into something cool, and noticeable. Imagine a zerker ranger/thief frost spirit duo
—————————————————-

As for PU mesmers, the solution is pretty simple: summoning a phantasm from stealth should cause reveal, as it is an attack which does damage. Problem SOLVED

pu memser in spvp is pretty useless

vincecontix.1264:

infantrydiv.1620:

Minion Necro is the only spec here which can literally stand in place and not touch anything while still dealing significant damage to an opponent.

Now, Minion Necro could be a spec involving skilled gameplay if the passive damage was removed from the minions and minions had more utility. For example, if Shadow Fiend was an AoE blind and short chill. If Bone Minions exploded into a cloud of weakness and poison. If Bone Fiend’s immobilize had a reasonable cast time.

Right now the only truly well designed minion is probably Flesh Wurm, where it offers reasonable utility and damages only if the enemy is within range and chooses not to kill it.

---

As for spirit Ranger, I would actually prefer Spirits to work like this:

Instead of having passive abilities, spirits passive are combined into their current passives, for example, Sun Spirit would look like:

20 second cooldown, your sun spirit blinds all enemies nearby, you and allie’s next attacks do 4 seconds of burning. This ‘burning attack’ would appear on the rangers bar as the current sun spirit passive icon.

This preserves the sun spirit’s basic function, without even a percentage nerf, but adds a LOT of counterplay and skillful play. Say my team has an enemy down, I hit my sun spirit, blinding the enemy team and applying lots of burning to my team’s cleave.

The other spirits could be reworked in exactly the same way, although there might need to be some rebalancing done to cooldowns and such.

Frost Spirit might look like this:

20 second CD, your frost spirit chills nearby enemies for 5 seconds (pulsing), you and your teammates next attack does 50% more damage

Suddenly frost spirit is actually viable for burst comps and again, the former passive is made into something cool, and noticeable. Imagine a zerker ranger/thief frost spirit duo
—————————————————-

As for PU mesmers, the solution is pretty simple: summoning a phantasm from stealth should cause reveal, as it is an attack which does damage. Problem SOLVED

pu memser in spvp is pretty useless

because they kill the guy on far / close in 1on1 situations ? Or because the phantasm makes 7k AOE damage in a team fight?

ronpierce.2760:

Lol.. kitten A t s e, do we have to go through this every other day? xD
A, Spirit rangers aren’t “afk specs”, spirits have a pretty long cast time and they don’t attack. They’re just buffs. Unless shouts and other boon-related builds are afk specs too, spirit ranger isn’t. They’re just powerful, and suffer from animations all looking alike on short bow. They press buttons to win though, even if you can’t tell that a split-green poison shot, a jump back, a daze shot and a snare are something other than SB #1, doesn’t mean they’re only pressing 1. Not that it matters, thieves are the kings of 1 button combos.

MM, has tons of downsides to its passive damage. It has basically no passive defense (outside of DS, which for any MM build actually weakens you the longer you stay in it because you can’t control pets, apply layers of CC, and you give free time for enemies to kill your pets) . I’d love to have evade on every other attack I have, stability, stealth, etc, I guess not all builds play the same, oh my.

PU Mesmer, don’t care. It can burn in a fire. Literally the only build in the ENTIRE game that I can say I actually “hate”. Condi damage + stealth + ai scaling with stats applying massive condi damage doing actually GOOD damage themselves, weakness spam, perma cripple and the Mesmer never once having to try to engage in the fight themselves is pretty lame. Let alone the actual PU trait itself. At least MM has some sort of relation to their AI (MM ccing so AI isn’t useless).

That’s my two cents, BAI! See you in the duel rooms (lol)

spirit ranger is not afk thats true but, spirits do attack using skills like imbo, chill and blind, they are really cool to have, im actully telling you this so you use them if you play a ranger.

its great to read in combatlog after fight with a ranger from 50+ attacks the ranger used only 2-3 skills

Turret Engi are pretty kitten aswell.

I don’t understand why people think that PU mesmer is useless in sPvP.

Yes, with their reliance on stealth, they can’t keep a point contested for a long time. But, provided it is a mid node fight, they only need to keep it contested for long enough for the primary bunker (if there is one) to relieve his/her own pressure and then get back on point. Not to mention the weakness from Debilitating Dissipation significantly reduces the DPS of on node fighters.

And if assaulting far point, the onus of keeping the point capped isn’t on the mesmer, but on the defender, who is often forced to melee the clones, and eats conditions as the conditions from killing clones are neither dodgeable nor blockable.

ronpierce.2760:

Lol.. kitten A t s e, do we have to go through this every other day? xD
A, Spirit rangers aren’t “afk specs”, spirits have a pretty long cast time and they don’t attack. They’re just buffs. Unless shouts and other boon-related builds are afk specs too, spirit ranger isn’t. They’re just powerful, and suffer from animations all looking alike on short bow. They press buttons to win though, even if you can’t tell that a split-green poison shot, a jump back, a daze shot and a snare are something other than SB #1, doesn’t mean they’re only pressing 1. Not that it matters, thieves are the kings of 1 button combos.

MM, has tons of downsides to its passive damage. It has basically no passive defense (outside of DS, which for any MM build actually weakens you the longer you stay in it because you can’t control pets, apply layers of CC, and you give free time for enemies to kill your pets) . I’d love to have evade on every other attack I have, stability, stealth, etc, I guess not all builds play the same, oh my.

PU Mesmer, don’t care. It can burn in a fire. Literally the only build in the ENTIRE game that I can say I actually “hate”. Condi damage + stealth + ai scaling with stats applying massive condi damage doing actually GOOD damage themselves, weakness spam, perma cripple and the Mesmer never once having to try to engage in the fight themselves is pretty lame. Let alone the actual PU trait itself. At least MM has some sort of relation to their AI (MM ccing so AI isn’t useless).

That’s my two cents, BAI! See you in the duel rooms (lol)

Love you.

people still complaining about MM necro and spirit rangers are a bit boring in my opinion: if you haven’t learn how to deal with them at this point then try change your build or your class or try with another game. Try warr, engi or mesmer: these 3 classes are really good against them.

about PU mesmers: terribly passive, lame, Op build. Phantasms damages are unmanageable for most classes.

infantrydiv.1620:

-Minion Master had telegraphed attacks
-Didn’t achieve most of it’s DPS from passive damage
-Wasn’t absurdly tanky compared to the damage it put out
-Relied on properly timed active abilities to succeed

I agree with the telegraphing because generally its non existent, although in some cases they would require buffs for that to be the case, such as Rigor Mortis which is a weaker Pin Down with double the CD. But Rigor Mortis needs a better telegraph, as does Flesh Golem, otherwise the rest have appropriate telegraphing for the effect of the skill.

Also, maximum DPS is not achieved through passive play, you have to actively use your CC to get the minions in range, otherwise the other person can literally run in a circle and never get hit by a melee minion. Every minion relies on their actives being landed for the minion to have maximum effect, all of the minions are absolutely awful without their actives. This is why Shadow Fiend never saw the light of day until people started using him solely for his blind (with the LF being a nice addition). As for the unblockable explosions; you control when they die, you understand the danger and tradeoffs (leaving minion alive vs taking death nova), and the trait requires a 30 point investment that forces the MM to exclude either 25% damage increase or condition removal. That trait is entirely under your control, if you eat the damage its due solely to your own actions.

Using the exact same build and trait allocation, but without my minions having offensive traits, they have almost the same DPS as my dagger spam with cleric’s amulet and healing power runes; they are just a tiny bit higher (about 1-2 seconds faster kill on a heavy golem). Essentially I am investing most of my trait points, all my utility skills, my elite skill, and some of my runes/sigils to get a return of a cleric auto attack worth of passive damage.

I can’t speak for the other AI builds, as only two of them are remotely viable (and both operate in vastly different manners), however MM is just fine as it is, and will be perfect once it gets adjustments to its AI, telegraphing, visual clutter, and small trades of passive damage to active.

Pride.1734:

Like everything you guys said could be taken from MM to Mesmer 1:1

nah, 1:1+stealth