Guild Wars 2

Build Diversity is still a problem, and certain traitlines are still required.

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

Mesmer

Inspiration is required

Druid

Bm/Nm/Druid – Staff still required.

Elementalist

Earth and Water/ Tempest Still required.

Scrapper

Alchemy required.

Necromancer

Blood Magic or Soul Reaping required. Soul reaping has been the longest offender since launch.

Warrior

Discipline Required. Always has been.

All I am saying is that, if you have 1 or 2 traitlines required in every build, there will forever be no build diversity. Anet needs to fix the useless ones while prioritizing which comes first so that every traitline/trait/weapon/utility will be competent enough.

Ex: I just have no idea why Anet still buffs ele dagger (which is a staple in every build like focus) while ignoring Warhorn which is utter trash.

StickerHappy.8052:

Build Diversity is still a problem, and certain traitlines are still required.

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

Mesmer

Inspiration is required

Druid

Bm/Nm/Druid – Staff still required.

Elementalist

Earth and Water/ Tempest Still required.

Scrapper

Alchemy required.

Necromancer

Blood Magic or Soul Reaping required. Soul reaping has been the longest offender since launch.

Warrior

Discipline Required. Always has been.

All I am saying is that, if you have 1 or 2 traitlines required in every build, there will forever be no build diversity. Anet needs to fix the useless ones while prioritizing which comes first so that every traitline/trait/weapon/utility will be competent enough.

Ex: I just have no idea why Anet still buffs ele dagger (which is a staple in every build like focus) while ignoring Warhorn which is utter trash.

You forgot Thief

Deadly Arts
Trickery
Daredevil

All required….

Either they go into the nightmare of balancing all traits to make elite specs on par with core. Or they release more elite specs not bundled to extension packs…..

Wargameur.6950:

Either they go into the nightmare of balancing all traits to make elite specs on par with core. Or they release more elite specs not bundled to extension packs…..

Or the other way around. Make core on par with elite specs.

StickerHappy.8052:

Wargameur.6950:

Either they go into the nightmare of balancing all traits to make elite specs on par with core. Or they release more elite specs not bundled to extension packs…..

Or the other way around. Make core on par with elite specs.

No no more powercreep nerf the elites…

StickerHappy.8052:

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

… because all the people who built it went to Amazon Games and the new staff don’t know what’s going on or how to fix something even the old devs had no idea how to balance.

Theif: trickery must have on any build, alone due to extra ini.

dont forget guard has never had a build without valor literally ever

Wargameur.6950:

Either they go into the nightmare of balancing all traits to make elite specs on par with core. Or they release more elite specs not bundled to extension packs…..

triple core will never be viable because there is no class that has three core specs that actually synergize well with each other.

The reason elite specs works so well is that they are all internally consistent, compared to core abilities and traitlines that are clunky messes of traits, many of which date back to launch.

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

dont forget guard has never had a build without valor literally ever

Nah, i think you could change valor to virtues when facing power heavy comps thanks to the stab on f3. I know changing valor to virtues has made it much easier for me to handle revs since they can’t knock me out of f3 with surge of the mists. I do change back to valor if i see a lot of condi though.

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

Kuya.6495:

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

dont forget guard has never had a build without valor literally ever

Nah, i think you could change valor to virtues when facing power heavy comps thanks to the stab on f3. I know changing valor to virtues has made it much easier for me to handle revs since they can’t knock me out of f3 with surge of the mists. I do change back to valor if i see a lot of condi though.

your bad build doesnt count

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

ideally the new elite specialisations will be different from what we have currently.

however i honestly don’t mind having one trait line focused on condion clense, & another on damage. i don’t mind these supposed “must picks” either. taking discipline on warrior never bothered me.

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

ideally the new elite specialisations will be different from what we have currently.

however i honestly don’t mind having one trait line focused on condion clense, & another on damage. i don’t mind these supposed “must picks” either. taking discipline on warrior never bothered me.

Thats where the problem lies, as an avid theorycrafter myself, some trait combinations will not work without the required lines. (top tier pvp, tourneys) anything can work in solo q.

I think giving us more options through better weapon sets or utilities, like condition cleanse (like the ele 3 condition removal), will pave the way making these traitlines not as much required.

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

ideally the new elite specialisations will be different from what we have currently.

however i honestly don’t mind having one trait line focused on condion clense, & another on damage. i don’t mind these supposed “must picks” either. taking discipline on warrior never bothered me.

Thats where the problem lies, as an avid theorycrafter myself, some trait combinations will not work without the required lines. (top tier pvp, tourneys) anything can work in solo q.

I think giving us more options through better weapon sets or utilities, like condition cleanse (like the ele 3 condition removal), will pave the way making these traitlines not as much required.

why shouldn’t the condi cleanse mainly be in one or two trait lines?
if it has to be in them all the traitlines stop having diversity.

have a damage line, have a defense line, have specialisation, have trade offs.

StickerHappy.8052:

Build Diversity is still a problem, and certain traitlines are still required.

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

Mesmer

Inspiration is required

Druid

Bm/Nm/Druid – Staff still required.

Elementalist

Earth and Water/ Tempest Still required.

Scrapper

Alchemy required.

Necromancer

Blood Magic or Soul Reaping required. Soul reaping has been the longest offender since launch.

Warrior

Discipline Required. Always has been.

All I am saying is that, if you have 1 or 2 traitlines required in every build, there will forever be no build diversity. Anet needs to fix the useless ones while prioritizing which comes first so that every traitline/trait/weapon/utility will be competent enough.

Ex: I just have no idea why Anet still buffs ele dagger (which is a staple in every build like focus) while ignoring Warhorn which is utter trash.

haha i like this one xD +1

i could add:

All classes – elite HoT spec required.

then it becomes like that:

Thief – Trickery/DD required.
Mesmer – Inspiration/Chrono required
Guard – DH/Valor required
Engi – Alchemy/Scrapper required.
etcetc.

+1. now we can all agree again that this game has no diversity since HoT patch whatsoever. ^^

Yeah I totally agree here.

For example look at Inspiration – I thought thematically it is supposed to be about supporting others, however instead it is a selfish sustain line.

There is absolutely no reason why all that condi cleanse should be loaded into that line when it would also make sense in other lines. Especially when playing without it means you have barely any cleanse.

I believe lines should be thematic and offer different flavours to combat – ie they should lean to a certain strength (ie damage, control, support, etc…) however should also have minor option to shore up their weaknesses – but less than a dedicated line. For example Domination should “major” in control, secondary with damage and include minor options for sustain that is rewarded on successful application of the major mechanics (control) – for example transfer condition on interrupt or heal for each boon removed from an enemy (just throwing random ideas out).

Damage is easy to come by now which is why things like Domination hardly make a difference to your build, but condition removal and healing/sustain is gold dust and mandatory. Deviating from Inspiration/Chrono/x is shooting yourself in the foot, similar to the trait lines of other classes that are way more efficient than other trait lines.

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

Kuya.6495:

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

dont forget guard has never had a build without valor literally ever

Nah, i think you could change valor to virtues when facing power heavy comps thanks to the stab on f3. I know changing valor to virtues has made it much easier for me to handle revs since they can’t knock me out of f3 with surge of the mists. I do change back to valor if i see a lot of condi though.

your bad build doesnt count

You should give it a try sometime. Of course, that only works on symbolic (dh+valor+honor or dh+virtues+honor). Medi trapper always takes virtues and valor anyway.

Dave.6819:

StickerHappy.8052:

Build Diversity is still a problem, and certain traitlines are still required.

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

Mesmer

Inspiration is required

Druid

Bm/Nm/Druid – Staff still required.

Elementalist

Earth and Water/ Tempest Still required.

Scrapper

Alchemy required.

Necromancer

Blood Magic or Soul Reaping required. Soul reaping has been the longest offender since launch.

Warrior

Discipline Required. Always has been.

All I am saying is that, if you have 1 or 2 traitlines required in every build, there will forever be no build diversity. Anet needs to fix the useless ones while prioritizing which comes first so that every traitline/trait/weapon/utility will be competent enough.

Ex: I just have no idea why Anet still buffs ele dagger (which is a staple in every build like focus) while ignoring Warhorn which is utter trash.

haha i like this one xD +1

i could add:

All classes – elite HoT spec required.

then it becomes like that:

Thief – Trickery/DD required.
Mesmer – Inspiration/Chrono required
Guard – DH/Valor required
Engi – Alchemy/Scrapper required.
etcetc.

+1. now we can all agree again that this game has no diversity since HoT patch whatsoever. ^^

Lets not forget:
Rev
Glint/Shiro
Invo/Dev/Herald
Sword/Shield/Staff
All required.

All off-meta rev builds killed with this patch.

-Rev of Boa

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

ideally the new elite specialisations will be different from what we have currently.

however i honestly don’t mind having one trait line focused on condion clense, & another on damage. i don’t mind these supposed “must picks” either. taking discipline on warrior never bothered me.

Thats where the problem lies, as an avid theorycrafter myself, some trait combinations will not work without the required lines. (top tier pvp, tourneys) anything can work in solo q.

I think giving us more options through better weapon sets or utilities, like condition cleanse (like the ele 3 condition removal), will pave the way making these traitlines not as much required.

why shouldn’t the condi cleanse mainly be in one or two trait lines?
if it has to be in them all the traitlines stop having diversity.

have a damage line, have a defense line, have specialisation, have trade offs.

I do agree about the trade offs, its the same with other traitlines. But that is not the case, you choose a traitline now because it has lesser tradeoffs or none at all. OR it could do the same things as other traitlines or even better. Thats where the problem is.

EX: Empathic Bond vs Druidic Clarity?

Curunen.8729:

Yeah I totally agree here.

For example look at Inspiration – I thought thematically it is supposed to be about supporting others, however instead it is a selfish sustain line.

There is absolutely no reason why all that condi cleanse should be loaded into that line when it would also make sense in other lines. Especially when playing without it means you have barely any cleanse.

I believe lines should be thematic and offer different flavours to combat – ie they should lean to a certain strength (ie damage, control, support, etc…) however should also have minor option to shore up their weaknesses – but less than a dedicated line. For example Domination should “major” in control, secondary with damage and include minor options for sustain that is rewarded on successful application of the major mechanics (control) – for example transfer condition on interrupt or heal for each boon removed from an enemy (just throwing random ideas out).

Damage is easy to come by now which is why things like Domination hardly make a difference to your build, but condition removal and healing/sustain is gold dust and mandatory. Deviating from Inspiration/Chrono/x is shooting yourself in the foot, similar to the trait lines of other classes that are way more efficient than other trait lines.

Exactly, A lot of people should know about this already but Inspiration is too good to pass up. Mesmers do not have good condition removal outside of it because Portal/X is too good to pass up to slot in Mantra Cleanse.

In short: Shattered Conditions is waaaayy better than Nullfield because it takes too long to get rid of the conditions, Mantra Cleanse because you have to charge it.

Lol not to mention even within the few required lines including elite specs, there’s only a couple viable options to complete the build with the third specialization. :/

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

DrDivine.5378:

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

The way Elite specs are balanced is by you having to select the trait line for the new weapon and mechanic, since they will be releasing brand new Elite specs each Xpac otherwise it will be a blancing nightmare and just increase the powercreep, with your idea people would stack the New mechanics from each xpac

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DrDivine.5378:

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

The way Elite specs are balanced is by you having to select the trait line for the new weapon and mechanic, since they will be releasing brand new Elite specs each Xpac otherwise it will be a blancing nightmare and just increase the powercreep, with your idea people would stack the New mechanics from each xpac

It’s a good point, the issue there is that means diversity now relies on expansion releases as it would take a few elite specs to truly make people choose. Their only competition right now is vanilla which they outperform.

With that mindset, they should be patching in elite spec traitlines, even if its just one a year, something to make people choose ya know?

DrDivine.5378:

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

May work BUT here is the problem, Anet Can’t even Fix/Tweak the new weapons. Ele WH has been crap since HoT. Same As necro GS.