Guild Wars 2

After almost 2 years of the game being out, i think we all really expected new game modes. TDM should honestly be one they implement. After seeing the immense success of courtyard, it would be in Anet’s best interest to create a new mode along with several new maps for a TDM mode. I don’t mind having point capping modes or objective modes exist, but also, this is pvp and we need a mode that purely tests players combat skill. A lot of builds have evolved in spvp that are burely based around bunkering(decap engi obviously) and just efficientcapping and holding points.

TDM would require a complete reworking of so many class aspects that it’s beyond happening

azuzephyr.7280:

TDM would require a complete reworking of so many class aspects that it’s beyond happening

Its working pretty well and is extremely enjoyable right now in courtyard.

I strongly disagree

Their reasoning for not putting it in forever is that they dont know how to balance ults. Like everyone just blows their ult right away. I suggested doing what wildstar or gears of war did with deathmatch where you just have a number of team lives (examp 6 lives for 2v2).

Another suggestion was making arena specific PVP ults. Some could stay as one (examp: necromancer flesh golem). But those classes that need an ult that isnt as ridiculous as supply drop for engi etc, could be given a new ult that isnt something you just blow right away…but has a steady use through out the match.

I had some more but those were suggested about 1 1/2 years ago, so i cant remember them. Anyway, why they never tried those i have no idea. But it was clear that spvp was not that important at launch, which i think is the real reason it never happend.

Zinwrath.2049:

Their reasoning for not putting it in forever is that they dont know how to balance ults. Like everyone just blows their ult right away. I suggested doing what wildstar or gears of war did with deathmatch where you just have a number of team lives (examp 6 lives for 2v2).

Another suggestion was making arena specific PVP ults. Some could stay as one (examp: necromancer flesh golem). But those classes that need an ult that isnt as ridiculous as supply drop for engi etc, could be given a new ult that isnt something you just blow right away…but has a steady use through out the match.

I had some more but those were suggested about 1 1/2 years ago, so i cant remember them. Anyway, why they never tried those i have no idea. But it was clear that spvp was not that important at launch, which i think is the real reason it never happend.

So we can’t have new game modes because the game is balanced in some aspects? Thats pretty dumb. I think there needs to be more of these 5v5 death matches to really tell which builds are unbalanced though.

They never said it was a balance thing. They said their internal tests was just everyone popping their ults right away then the battle was over. They said this excuse multiple times, that ULTS made death match impossible.

Which is why i suggested a way around them.

Deathmatch just does not work with GW 2, everyone uses a high cooldown high power ULT at the start of the match, and whatever side gets the advantage spawn camps the other side.

The other problem, professions are not balanced for TDM, leading to some professions/specs being vastly superior to others.

Some ults certainly would. Class mechanics just aren’t balanced around TDM tactics.

TDM would force out any class that doesn’t have a hard [read: un-counterable] defensive cooldown, otherwise you’d just be zerged down in a second from stealth burst, stability stomped and the match is over.

TDM works in games like WoW because they have healers who can cover people without defences of their own, stealth has clear counters and is prevented from being abused there is mana to stop it going on endlessly and they don’t have a downstate.

TDM would just be a playground for already cheesy specs

Couldn’t the solution be similar to what WoW did for some abilities in arena. You couldn’t use any ability that had a cooldown over 10 minutes.

In this game, you could do it to where you couldn’t use any ability that had a cooldown over 90 seconds. They would be greyed out, similar to if you don’t own the new skill, or an ability that’s not usable under water.

To flat out disregard a game mode that the community clearly wants (majority) just because of some minor kinks in the game’s design is absolutely unfathomable. To not spend a little time creating a workaround; thus, providing the community a way to enjoy YOUR game more…i mean…

felivear.1536:

Couldn’t the solution be similar to what WoW did for some abilities in arena. You couldn’t use any ability that had a cooldown over 10 minutes.

In this game, you could do it to where you couldn’t use any ability that had a cooldown over 90 seconds. They would be greyed out, similar to if you don’t own the new skill, or an ability that’s not usable under water.

What would that do about thieves/warriors?

The worst offenders that would be abusive in TDM wouldn’t be touched, this would only take out Moa, crate and Lich form.

azuzephyr.7280:

Some ults certainly would. Class mechanics just aren’t balanced around TDM tactics.

TDM would force out any class that doesn’t have a hard [read: un-counterable] defensive cooldown, otherwise you’d just be zerged down in a second from stealth burst, stability stomped and the match is over.

TDM works in games like WoW because they have healers who can cover people without defences of their own, stealth has clear counters and is prevented from being abused there is mana to stop it going on endlessly and they don’t have a downstate.

TDM would just be a playground for already cheesy specs

Yup, because conquest is nothing like that. Good point.

I can’t tell if that was sarcasm, but you’re right it isn’t.

Conquest at least demands 1-2 bunkers because somebody has to be able to stand on the point.

TDM in GW2 would favor stacking insta-gib/hard defence aka team full of thieves and 1 war; perma teamwide stealth and 1button kills with guaranteed stomp. Basically, the necro dies and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Have any of you not wanting 2v2/3v3 DM ever even joined a 2v2/3v3 DM tourney? They’re already FAR better than Conquest… No need to theorize, it’s a weekly thing and yes it’s more fun and I’d venture to say even more balanced than conquest (with some quirks). At least, as of last patch. The thing people don’t pay attention to is in 2v2/3v3 with room to move, you don’t have to wait for partners to show up to help you, you have no interferance and you’re not bound to a circle, meaning you can kite out of a supply drop, run from a tornado, etc etc. 2v2 has some of the most varried comps, moreso than tpvp has even, which is weird and a little sad if you ask me. Some ground rules may need to be made but overall it’s a very fun mode already, it just needs real in-game support rather than needing to be manually made once per week.

Anet had a huge opportunity in Custom Arenas to allow the players to spend time making the game modes they want and testing them out.

If they would have given players tons of control (limiting abilities -like the 90 second limit above-, setting game conditions, spawn points, etc) they could have spent all the time making games and then proving what would have worked.

Instead, they charged people for hotjoin with almost no customization. I promise, TDM would have shown up almost immediately and had tons of players playing it.

All of the complaints listed about TDM are valid concerns, however, they ALL exist currently in conquest…so, there’s that.

ronpierce.2760:

Have any of you not wanting 2v2/3v3 DM ever even joined a 2v2/3v3 DM tourney? They’re already FAR better than Conquest… No need to theorize, it’s a weekly thing and yes it’s more fun and I’d venture to say even more balanced than conquest (with some quirks). At least, as of last patch. The thing people don’t pay attention to is in 2v2/3v3 with room to move, you don’t have to wait for partners to show up to help you, you have no interferance and you’re not bound to a circle, meaning you can kite out of a supply drop, run from a tornado, etc etc. 2v2 has some of the most varried comps, moreso than tpvp has even, which is weird and a little sad if you ask me. Some ground rules may need to be made but overall it’s a very fun mode already, it just needs real in-game support rather than needing to be manually made once per week.

That’s one element that people fail to realize: with room to move, and not being forced on point, classes that excel in kiting would do really well against these hambow warriors. In the current game mode, the reason some of these specs are so wildly unbalanced is because everyone is being forced into a small circle to fight.

TDM is possible. People do it all the time in WvW. You get a good scrim team up against another good scrim team, and it’s great. Some of the best fights I’ve had in this game was in WvW against other scrim teams right outside their spawn. Keep in mind this is in super imba WvW too. The fight basically revolves around picking people out of position and spiking them down, or counter-spiking people who are getting overly aggressive. The super tanky classes like guardian support give the sustain needed to the group to keep up the pressure. If people think that all bunkers do is hold points, they’re just wrong. In any case, it’s great fun.

ronpierce.2760:

Have any of you not wanting 2v2/3v3 DM ever even joined a 2v2/3v3 DM tourney? They’re already FAR better than Conquest… No need to theorize, it’s a weekly thing and yes it’s more fun and I’d venture to say even more balanced than conquest (with some quirks). At least, as of last patch. The thing people don’t pay attention to is in 2v2/3v3 with room to move, you don’t have to wait for partners to show up to help you, you have no interferance and you’re not bound to a circle, meaning you can kite out of a supply drop, run from a tornado, etc etc. 2v2 has some of the most varried comps, moreso than tpvp has even, which is weird and a little sad if you ask me. Some ground rules may need to be made but overall it’s a very fun mode already, it just needs real in-game support rather than needing to be manually made once per week.

Yes I have, and more abilities/specs are banned than Anet would ever allow to make it a worthwhile gamemode. Bunkers are banned, Stealth resets are banned, abilities >90 seconds are banned. Anet isn’t going to do that and frankly they aren’t going to spend enough time tweaking bunkers and stealth to make it work in TDM any time this century.

I have nothing against TDM itself but unregulated TDM in this game would be a living hell that punishes already underperforming specs and would reward some specs which are already doing strongly in conquest.

azuzephyr.7280:

Some ults certainly would. Class mechanics just aren’t balanced around TDM tactics.

TDM would force out any class that doesn’t have a hard [read: un-counterable] defensive cooldown, otherwise you’d just be zerged down in a second from stealth burst, stability stomped and the match is over.

TDM works in games like WoW because they have healers who can cover people without defences of their own, stealth has clear counters and is prevented from being abused there is mana to stop it going on endlessly and they don’t have a downstate.

TDM would just be a playground for already cheesy specs

When I played TDM (Arena) in WoW, every single one of my friends and guildies always preferred to play without any healers whatsoever. Wouldn’t happen in 3v3 or 5v5 because of how the game was designed though, but in 2v2 it was entirely viable to play without healers and it was the most fun – And that’s with a game that’s designed around the holy trinity; GW2 has a big advantage here.

I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it. I do believe that there’s a big number of players that would very much like this to be a thing (somewhat based on the wide support that ~this concept had in the thread started by ANet discussing possible game modes) .
I strongly believe that it should be played with very small teamsizes (2-4 i.e.) and that there should be a very finite amount of respawns available, if any.

By the way, I’m ridiculously happy about the new map, however loosely implemented it is.

felivear.1536:

Anet had a huge opportunity in Custom Arenas to allow the players to spend time making the game modes they want and testing them out.

If they would have given players tons of control (limiting abilities -like the 90 second limit above-, setting game conditions, spawn points, etc) they could have spent all the time making games and then proving what would have worked.

Instead, they charged people for hotjoin with almost no customization. I promise, TDM would have shown up almost immediately and had tons of players playing it.

All of the complaints listed about TDM are valid concerns, however, they ALL exist currently in conquest…so, there’s that.

That’s a lovely idea! You’d probably have to give up progression to unlock some of these features, but it could be a viable platform for the playerbase to create their own game modes! Would be awfully time consuming to implement that kind of freedom though. Perhaps you meant it to be a bit simpler though.

Phadde.7362:

I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.

Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunker

If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.

Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM. The only arguments ive seen are that people would pop their cooldowns and then the fight would be over soon. I doubt this, simply because I haven’t seen it happen yet in courtyard, or 2v2’s, 3v3’s, 5v5’s that occur in custom arenas or the OS. If they want to fix the spawn camping issue, then just have random spawn locations throughout the map.

They also should do something like WoW has done where you enter an arena and its a 2v2/3v3/5v5 deathmatch except as soon as you kill the other team, you win. No respawns, 1 life only. They could also add a tourney style system to this. Where multiple teams enter and you climb the later, beating each team you encounter, until you reach the last team who advanced the same distance as you did, and you fight for gold.

One thing we can all agree on is this conquest being the dominant mode in spvp is pretty plain and stupid. Id much rather watch spvp streams if people were focused on fighting and killing the enemy instead of capping points. Teams who win in spvp as well are probably not even the best at 5v5’s, 1v1’s. They have just designed their team to capture points pretty well, and that shouldn’t be the core of sPvP.

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.

Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunker

If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.

All of those sound like they would be a problem in theory, but ive not seen one 5v5 yet that occurs where people try these cheesy 1 sided tactics. They arn’t as effective as you think. Even though in a 3v3, a team of 3 thieves could keep up permanent stealth, ive still seen these teams lose because what happens when you make a team setup that 1 sided is that you have a hole in your backside that you can’t replace and makes you vulnerable.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM.

In your view, what would be the counter to a team with even one thief using shadow refuge to reset the fight endlessly?

Conquest has a clear drawback in that they’d lose the capture point

EDIT: they really are that effective, I’ve already said, any class that couldn’t hard counter a spike would be out. Thieves and Warriors are already doing too well in dueling and that’s with restrictions on stealth resets.

While it might seem fun now, you have to know that the moment they put it in Tpvp it can change the entire experience. Until they put in there, there’s no way of testing it thoroughly.

SkylightMoon.1980:

They also should do something like WoW has done where you enter an arena and its a 2v2/3v3/5v5 deathmatch except as soon as you kill the other team, you win. No respawns, 1 life only. They could also add a tourney style system to this. Where multiple teams enter and you climb the later, beating each team you encounter, until you reach the last team who advanced the same distance as you did, and you fight for gold.

Just that idea alone would be great. I can’t imagine how much time ANET would have to put into that, but it would be awesome.

Look ANET…your combat, your animations, the art, the fluidness…it’s amazing. Most game can’t get that right or get even close to what you’ve done. Yet, you hamper the experience with hardheadedness and no willingness to let players play how they want.

You’ve created a playground in the perfect part of town where everyone can come and enjoy it, but all you put there was a swingset because “some people that helped build it didn’t think monkey bars and slides were fun”.

azuzephyr.7280:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM.

In your view, what would be the counter to a team with even one thief using shadow refuge to reset the fight endlessly?

Conquest has a clear drawback in that they’d lose the capture point

EDIT: they really are that effective, I’ve already said, any class that couldn’t hard counter a spike would be out. Thieves and Warriors are already doing too well in dueling and that’s with restrictions on stealth resets.

So if they are using shadow refuge to reset the fight, and only have 1 thief, and if that thief decides to run reduced recharge on deceptions, his shadow refuge has a 48 second cooldown now. Thats quite long honestly and you can do a lot iwth 48 seconds. However, there are easy ways to counter shadow refuge. Use cc’s like push/pull/fear to knock them out, and even if you dont have that, aoe the area to death and their only choice is to take a lot of damage or move out of the refuge and get revealed.

It is possible to make TDM but with one condition: classes can’t stack. If there will be limiter that only one player from every profesion can prticipate it may be quite fun.

SkylightMoon.1980:

azuzephyr.7280:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM.

In your view, what would be the counter to a team with even one thief using shadow refuge to reset the fight endlessly?

Conquest has a clear drawback in that they’d lose the capture point

EDIT: they really are that effective, I’ve already said, any class that couldn’t hard counter a spike would be out. Thieves and Warriors are already doing too well in dueling and that’s with restrictions on stealth resets.

So if they are using shadow refuge to reset the fight, and only have 1 thief, and if that thief decides to run reduced recharge on deceptions, his shadow refuge has a 48 second cooldown now. Thats quite long honestly and you can do a lot iwth 48 seconds. However, there are easy ways to counter shadow refuge. Use cc’s like push/pull/fear to knock them out, and even if you dont have that, aoe the area to death and their only choice is to take a lot of damage or move out of the refuge and get revealed.

It’s still a teamwide fight reset, it’s value warrants a cooldown of 3 minutes minimum. The only reason it’s even close to acceptable atm is because conquest eliminates stealth being used as a massive team benefit.

That’s still assuming that there’s only one thief, two would be able to guarantee team stealth even if you miraculously revealed everyone inside the first shadow refuge

Guys, I agree that TDM is a really great game mode. But I think that anet shouldn’t build PvP around TDM now. I think TDM is just like RA/TA in GW1, which was lot of fun. But there should be a game mode with more depth.
Just build maps with additional objectives like guild lords and mobs for boosts. In the end, it is quite similar to TDM (since most of time you just fight XvsX) but it has a tactical component.

If they limit TDM to 2v2 and 3v3, then I wouldn’t mind it. 5v5 is too zergy and keep that for conquest.

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.

Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunker

If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.

What’s the actual over-powered part for building around permanent stealth? If it actually turns out to be something of a problem (which I have never seen in any 3v3s I’ve witnessed, and not either in the Courtyard), just balance it out; Perhaps make revealed a bit longer (perhaps after a certain amount of time), or go for Blizzards solution to the problems with the Crystals.

Insta-gib, really? Super glass when matched against several other people head-on? Good luck with that, don’t think it’s all that viable though.

This is a viable concern I think. Nothing that would make the entire game mode un-doable by any stretch of the imagination, definitely not.

It feels like you’re trying very hard to not make this sound like a really good idea.

I swear if you people ruin TDM for me, I’m going to be kittened. So many people have quit because of the lack of diversity in PvP (myself included) and now that they’re testing it, all of the people who have never played PvP in their life (and some that have) are saying that it doesn’t work because their side gets camped.

There’s a couple small changes they should make, then the system would be perfect.

1. If in tournament, make it a TDM tournament with a couple more maps. It doesn’t mesh well with Cap based builds.

2. Tweak the respawn timer and type, although in tournament this wont be as much an issue.. Fix the respawn for team, instead of individual (custom arenas) and make it a little bit longer.

3. Change time/point limit based on the static player size of the map. 10v10 matches should take twice the points required as 5v5.

As far as saying they’d have to change the entire way all classes function to make TDM work is complete BS. The players would change the way they play.. The Devs don’t have to force the change. If you’re a warrior, bring a banner. If you’re a squishy thief.. Learn to not rush in the middle of a zeg fight. If you’re an Ele, consider playing a staff build.

I’ve had far more fun times in the short lived (so far) TDM as I have in Point Cap. And the fact that All of the TDM maps are maxed out shows its popularity. It works, and people love it.

azuzephyr.7280:

SkylightMoon.1980:

azuzephyr.7280:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Im still not convinced that there is some lack of balance that would lead to the absence of a TDM.

In your view, what would be the counter to a team with even one thief using shadow refuge to reset the fight endlessly?

Conquest has a clear drawback in that they’d lose the capture point

EDIT: they really are that effective, I’ve already said, any class that couldn’t hard counter a spike would be out. Thieves and Warriors are already doing too well in dueling and that’s with restrictions on stealth resets.

So if they are using shadow refuge to reset the fight, and only have 1 thief, and if that thief decides to run reduced recharge on deceptions, his shadow refuge has a 48 second cooldown now. Thats quite long honestly and you can do a lot iwth 48 seconds. However, there are easy ways to counter shadow refuge. Use cc’s like push/pull/fear to knock them out, and even if you dont have that, aoe the area to death and their only choice is to take a lot of damage or move out of the refuge and get revealed.

It’s still a teamwide fight reset, it’s value warrants a cooldown of 3 minutes minimum. The only reason it’s even close to acceptable atm is because conquest eliminates stealth being used as a massive team benefit.

That’s still assuming that there’s only one thief, two would be able to guarantee team stealth even if you miraculously revealed everyone inside the first shadow refuge

Revealing people in shadow refuge isnt hard though. A warrior/mesmer/necro/guardian/ele(if anyone is crazy enough to use staff) can all do it. I don’t know the cc’s on other classes too well. But even a class like an engi could light up the area with bombs and murder them. Shadow refuge really isn’t as good as you make it out to be, especially if you have 5 people bomb the location.

butch.8136:

If they limit TDM to 2v2 and 3v3, then I wouldn’t mind it. 5v5 is too zergy and keep that for conquest.

I admit 5v5 can be very zergy sometimes. It would be hard to kill 5 warriors focusing one target. You could, but you’d need a much different set up. Anything that ends up being zergy in this game, in pvp, is always easily countered by ranged dps. It happens with wvw zergs, and it could happen in spvp.

sonic.7592:

Guys, I agree that TDM is a really great game mode. But I think that anet shouldn’t build PvP around TDM now. I think TDM is just like RA/TA in GW1, which was lot of fun. But there should be a game mode with more depth.
Just build maps with additional objectives like guild lords and mobs for boosts. In the end, it is quite similar to TDM (since most of time you just fight XvsX) but it has a tactical component.

The thing that people seem to forget is that when you focus entirely on the actual
Player> vs <Player combat, the profession and combat mechanics gains a whole lot more weight. I don’t think that it’s all that baffling to argue that the interplay between ~17-29 skills (with additional important traits to consider) per player might actually be complex and with very much depth. And I think you have to consider all those things when playing in a game mode like this much more, and you play with perhaps 4 or 6 people total.

Eve.1580:

I swear if you people ruin TDM for me, I’m going to be kittened. So many people have quit because of the lack of diversity in PvP (myself included) and now that they’re testing it, all of the people who have never played PvP in their life (and some that have) are saying that it doesn’t work because their side gets camped.

~

I’ve had far more fun times in the short lived (so far) TDM as I have in Point Cap. And the fact that All of the TDM maps are maxed out shows its popularity. It works, and people love it.

Great ideas! I especially agree with the last bit; This new map is the most fun I’ve had in GW2 – Just think of how amazing that is with a game mode that’s technically in a rough beta.

Phadde.7362:

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

I don’t really see any good examples of how a TDM game mode wouldn’t work; If you don’t like it, don’t play it.

Examples;
Perma stealth
Spamming fight resets til you win
Insta-gib
Unkillable bunker

If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.

What’s the actual over-powered part for building around permanent stealth? If it actually turns out to be something of a problem (which I have never seen in any 3v3s I’ve witnessed, and not either in the Courtyard), just balance it out; Perhaps make revealed a bit longer (perhaps after a certain amount of time), or go for Blizzards solution to the problems with the Crystals.

Insta-gib, really? Super glass when matched against several other people head-on? Good luck with that, don’t think it’s all that viable though.

This is a viable concern I think. Nothing that would make the entire game mode un-doable by any stretch of the imagination, definitely not.

It feels like you’re trying very hard to not make this sound like a really good idea.

If you genuinely believe that insta-gib isn’t a thing in GW2, you haven’t played much organiised group pvp. The top teams I’ve played as BrB, even since the days of qualifying points as with Kult/guild, has been burst heavy. And as Ive said many times, any class without a hard defence cooldown is gone, especially necro. No questions no qualms no counters. You blink, you burst and then you guarantee the stomp, the only counter to it is the enemy team’s shadow refuge in which case you cycle through resets or push far while stalling at mid.

Without the secondary objective of points to capture the way to win would be camping SR until someone makes a mistake. Super glass is now and always has been the way to go, there’s no point running a soldier’s amulet while you have almost 100% uptime on evade and an on-demand fight reset. So yes it certainly is a concern, and if you can’t see the overpowered side, well that’s your deal.

azuzephyr.7280:

If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.

Missed this bit. No-one’s talking about forcing people to play this. It’s completely bonkers to put it in the same SoloQ or TeamQ as Conquest. The reasons for implementing this map for real are strong and it doesn’t have to affect you in any way; We have the base for this game mode and it appears like a ton of people are enjoying very much!
People where already making CAs for Dueling and actual “Team elimination” event long before this map.

Phadde.7362:

sonic.7592:

Guys, I agree that TDM is a really great game mode. But I think that anet shouldn’t build PvP around TDM now. I think TDM is just like RA/TA in GW1, which was lot of fun. But there should be a game mode with more depth.
Just build maps with additional objectives like guild lords and mobs for boosts. In the end, it is quite similar to TDM (since most of time you just fight XvsX) but it has a tactical component.

The thing that people seem to forget is that when you focus entirely on the actual
Player> vs <Player combat, the profession and combat mechanics gains a whole lot more weight. I don’t think that it’s all that baffling to argue that the interplay between ~17-29 skills (with additional important traits to consider) per player might actually be complex and with very much depth. And I think you have to consider all those things when playing in a game mode like this much more, and you play with perhaps 4 or 6 people total.

Okay you are right. TDM in GW2 has definetly a lit of depth and complexity. I just meant that there should be also objectives so that you can win even without winning fights. It just adds some tactical components but still fights are the main focus.

azuzephyr.7280:

If you genuinely believe that insta-gib isn’t a thing in GW2, you haven’t played much organiised group pvp. …

Without the secondary objective of points to capture the way to win would be camping SR until someone makes a mistake. …

I didn’t say that; I’m an Elementalist, so I’ve seen my fair share of these kinds of builds. What I don’t think you’re considering is the fact that you’re 3 people against 3 people: You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.
——-
Yet that isn’t happening to my knowledge in the Courtyard. Neither has it happened in any Team Deathmatch event that I’ve watched in the past.
In addition, (and I repeat) if this actually would be something of an issue, there are numerous ways of very easily dealing with it for ANet.

Phadde.7362:

azuzephyr.7280:

If you don’t like it don’t play it is precisely what we have now. I don’t like it and I don’t play it, there’s no reason given to put it into rated play forcing people who don’t like it to play it.

Missed this bit. No-one’s talking about forcing people to play this. It’s completely bonkers to put it in the same SoloQ or TeamQ as Conquest. The reasons for implementing this map for real are strong and it doesn’t have to affect you in any way; We have the base for this game mode and it appears like a ton of people are enjoying very much!
People where already making CAs for Dueling and actual “Team elimination” event long before this map.

Why are you asking for that? That’s already a thing and it can stay as ridiculously unbalanced as you want to to be

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

Do you even play TDM? The meta is currently AOE condi spam. If everyone in a thread disagrees with you, you might want to ask yourself why.

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

That statement right there proves my earlier point. You are saying, “TDM specifically won’t work because thieves and warriors will dominate” and then you prove that it’s not the game mode that does that, because they already are dominant in our current game mode.

So, it’s a current balance issue that is present in both modes.

style.6173:

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

Do you even play TDM? The meta is currently AOE condi spam. If everyone in a thread disagrees with you, you might want to ask yourself why.

Not really, in fact that’s a very stupid thing to say but I had fun at your expense none the less so thank you.

azuzephyr.7280:

style.6173:

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

Do you even play TDM? The meta is currently AOE condi spam. If everyone in a thread disagrees with you, you might want to ask yourself why.

Not really, in fact that’s a very stupid thing to say but I had fun at your expense none the less so thank you.

It’s ok. It just takes some people longer to learn than others. You’ll understand eventually. As others have said though, if you don’t enjoy the game mode, don’t play it. At least that way, you can go post on a thread where you know more about the topic.

felivear.1536:

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

That statement right there proves my earlier point. You are saying, “TDM specifically won’t work because thieves and warriors will dominate” and then you prove that it’s not the game mode that does that, because they already are dominant in our current game mode.

So, it’s a current balance issue that is present in both modes.

If you think that Shadow refuge will be equally balanced in a TDM mode as it is in conquest well there’s some bad news for you tbh.

But hey, as long as this ridiculousness isn’t going into rated play you can have it any way you want. But OP needs to make the thread clear as we already have a TDM map now, suggesting that they want a TDM rated map. Which is absolute no.

style.6173:

azuzephyr.7280:

style.6173:

azuzephyr.7280:

Phadde.7362:

You’ll be dead face down in the mud if you’re running such cheesy builds.

Is that why there are so few thieves and warriors in the meta right now?

Do you even play TDM? The meta is currently AOE condi spam. If everyone in a thread disagrees with you, you might want to ask yourself why.

Not really, in fact that’s a very stupid thing to say but I had fun at your expense none the less so thank you.

It’s ok. It just takes some people longer to learn than others. You’ll understand eventually. As others have said though, if you don’t enjoy the game mode, don’t play it. At least that way, you can go post on a thread where you know more about the topic.

What in your adequate view makes you believe that you know anything about this topic?

I’d like to know before I make judgments on who should be able to comment on pvp matters, particularly given the quality of people brought in since the patch

azuzephyr.7280:

What in your adequate view makes you believe that you know anything about this topic?

I’d like to know before I make judgments on who should be able to comment on pvp matters, particularly given the quality of people brought in since the patch

Really don’t want to be rude or anything, but I think we should stop trying to convince you of anything since it seems impossible and doesn’t takes the thread anywhere.