Guild Wars 2

Then you would have to agree that some amulets should be allowed on some classes while not allowed on other classes.

Some amulets are perfectly fine on the majority of classes while being too strong on other classes. Why?

Because different classes are different.

Why do many a DH build use marauders? Because it is perfect for their class. They don’t need a lot of defensive stats because their kit is overloaded with defenses like blocks, invulns, 1k heals on ability use etc.

Other classes need defensive stats… I know that might sound surprising.

Also, I read that anet was considering making fixed builds or something? IDK if thats true (it would certainly be the final nail in the spvp coffin) but why not first try to make amulets restrictive based on profession instead of shooting right to the extreme?

Limiting an amulet for only a few classes is a good way to kitten people off. I think it’s a bad idea, it further limits build diversity and it’s a poor solution to address class balances.

Saiyan.1704:

Limiting an amulet for only a few classes is a good way to kitten people off. I think it’s a bad idea, it further limits builf diversity and it’s a poor solution to address class balances.

No it doesn’t limit diversity at all. ANet already restricts Amulets from certain classes only they do it across the board indiscriminately. This is not called balance

Also, I didnt know we were balancing based on peoples feelings. “kittening people off”?. Yeah, no wonder this game never made it.

Saiyan.1704:

Limiting an amulet for only a few classes is a good way to kitten people off. I think it’s a bad idea, it further limits build diversity and it’s a poor solution to address class balances.

Actually why would this kitten people off? Tell me.

SO, you’re saying if one class can use something another class can’t use, then its not fair right?

OH good. That means i can start requesting Anet give Necromancers stealth, blocks, invuln, ambient cc’s/dazes, etc. Should be fair right?

Or… are different classes different? Can’t have it both ways.

BTW this is probably the easiest more logical way to deal with class balance. Just so you know.

No. We cannot remove amulets from the game with out creating a negative effect. Imagine if marauder wasn’t there. Then DH would have to run something like berserkers or barbarian. With the low hp pool berserker wouldn’t be viable except in yolo hotjoin and barbarian could never kill anything except thief or a mesmer clone.

In addition, people like having more options, not less, which is why build diversity is such a big deal

Topher.5631:

No. We cannot remove amulets from the game with out creating a negative effect. Imagine if marauder wasn’t there. Then DH would have to run something like berserkers or barbarian. With the low hp pool berserker wouldn’t be viable except in yolo hotjoin and barbarian could never kill anything except thief or a mesmer clone.

In addition, people like having more options, not less, which is why build diversity is such a big deal

Who said anything about removal of all amulets?

Who said anything about removing marauders from DH?

TheDevice.2751:

Why do many a DH build use marauders?

The removal of any amulet would hurt the game.

Less build diversity = less creativity = everyone is a clone of each other (as far as builds) = less fun. Compare pre-June 2015 to post June 2015.

Before there were a lot more options and traits. After that there were a whole lot less options because the amount of traits afterwards were limited.

One time I saw a guy playing Mercenary ele condi. It was fun to watch because I wasn’t sure what to expect and I respected him for beating a player with an off meta build.

tl;dr

Removing amulets is bad for the long term health of the game

Topher.5631:

TheDevice.2751:

Why do many a DH build use marauders?

The removal of any amulet would hurt the game.

Less build diversity = less creativity = everyone is a clone of each other (as far as builds) = less fun. Compare pre-June 2015 to post June 2015.

Before there were a lot more options and traits. After that there were a whole lot less options because the amount of traits afterwards were limited.

One time I saw a guy playing Mercenary ele condi. It was fun to watch because I wasn’t sure what to expect and I respected him for beating a player with an off meta build.

tl;dr

Removing amulets is bad for the long term health of the game

OK then bring back celestial, bring back soldiers, all these amulets that work perfectly fine on necromancers.

None of your arguments actually make any sense btw.

So in the end. After all of your arguments you don’t agree that different classes are different.

Your arguments for removing amulets actually make sense btw. And yeah let all of those amulets come back, I had a lot of fun with my off meta soldier thief build.

So in the end. You still haven’t come up with a reason to state why we should restrict amulets on some classes.

Topher.5631:

So in the end. You still haven’t come up with a reason to state why we should restrict amulets on some classes.

Hint: its in the name of the thread.

So because classes are different, you want to harm build diversity?

I do not think that this is a good idea because it basically just means removing the amulet that each class uses in the meta, which in my opinion is no better than just removing amulets for all classes. Also, it will not really change anything because every class will just go to the next best amulet for them and, because most classes would have had their best amulet removed, it would not really affect balance.

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others, it is just that different classes need different stats so they are bound to have amulets that work better on them than on other classes. This does not make the amulets that are used overpowered. I think Anet needs to stop removing amulets now, even for just some professions. Every single amulet we have now is perfectly balanced and balance should be focused on skills and traits rather than amulet choice. Adding amulets is fine but removing them from now on is just Unnecessary.

Topher.5631:

So because classes are different, you want to harm build diversity?

how is allowing some classes to use certain amulets whole other classes cannot automatically considered limiting?

it might open up plenty of amulets for classes who could really use them for other builds.

its like this:

Arenenet wont allow celestial amulet because of classes like engineer and elementalist.

What i’m saying is how about allow some classes use them; the alternative what we have now. Zero diversity.

Nothing you say will validate your argument. The only way your argument would apply is if all amulets including ones already removed from spvp were brought back: ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN . And its not goign to happen because some classes are extremely broken with certain amulets. How is this so hard to explain?

YOU ARE LIMITING OVERALL BUILD DIVERSITY by not ALLOWING some amulets to be used because they’ve been proven too strong on a minority of classes. Why should this hurt the majority?

What you’re saing is “oh his class can use X amulet but mine can’t thats not fair” And im saying “different classes are different.”

Anyone who disagrees with this suggestion just doesn’t actually believe diffrent classes should be different or are just being insincere because they enjoy having overpwered specs.

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others…

Well. If you disregard facts then sure.

Look at it this way: My idea is only opening up more diversity. Thats the only thing its doing.

1. no amulets that are allowed right now would be removed. So at the VERY LEAST, diversity wouldn’t be worse.
2. MORE AMULETS Would be brought back but only for certain classes that are deemed safe to use.

Its being a realist. Its acknowledging that DIFFERENT CLASSES ARE DIFFERENT and some classes would be completely okay with using an amulet that another class would be too strong with. This is called reality.

This is why in League of Legends, some items are only usable on melee champs while some are only usable on ranged champs.

TheDevice.2751:

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others…

Well. If you disregard facts then sure.

I am not disregarding facts. There is no amulet in the game right now that is OP on any class. Strong, yes, but not OP. Balance is fairly good right now and the thing that makes certain classes slightly stronger than others is certainly not amulet choice.

Additionally, removing amulets for certain classes is basically the same as removing them from the game- if Menders was removed from Druid and ele, other classes would not start using that amulet. It would just become an unused amulet (other than occasionally for engi) which is no better than removing it from the game in my opinion.

suffish.4150:

TheDevice.2751:

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others…

Well. If you disregard facts then sure.

I am not disregarding facts. There is no amulet in the game right now that is OP on any class. Strong, yes, but not OP. Balance is fairly good right now and the thing that makes certain classes slightly stronger than others is certainly not amulet choice.

Additionally, removing amulets for certain classes is basically the same as removing them from the game- if Menders was removed from Druid and ele, other classes would not start using that amulet. It would just become an unused amulet (other than occasionally for engi) which is no better than removing it from the game in my opinion.

WHY IS ANYONE REMOVING AMULETS?

IM only talking about bringing some amulets back but only for certain classes. How is this so hard to explain id;lkjsdlkjg;lkjg

TheDevice.2751:

suffish.4150:

TheDevice.2751:

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others…

Well. If you disregard facts then sure.

I am not disregarding facts. There is no amulet in the game right now that is OP on any class. Strong, yes, but not OP. Balance is fairly good right now and the thing that makes certain classes slightly stronger than others is certainly not amulet choice.

Additionally, removing amulets for certain classes is basically the same as removing them from the game- if Menders was removed from Druid and ele, other classes would not start using that amulet. It would just become an unused amulet (other than occasionally for engi) which is no better than removing it from the game in my opinion.

WHY IS ANYONE REMOVING AMULETS?

IM only talking about bringing some amulets back but only for certain classes. How is this so hard to explain id;lkjsdlkjg;lkjg

I admit that I did not read the post when you said you were talking about adding amulets, and I apologise for that. However, I still do not believe it is a good idea. For example if merc amulet was added but only for classes that were not too strong with it previously, it would just be an unused amulet because the classes it would be added for will already have better amulet choices. Of course it would open up more options for people to run different builds, but they would all be useless builds compared to the meta so it doesn’t really matter.

Adding amulets that have already been removed is good as long as classes are balanced to not be too strong with these amulets, but it must be for every class. I can just never get on board with the idea with certain amulets for certain classes becaus they will either make the class too strong again or just never be used.

suffish.4150:

TheDevice.2751:

suffish.4150:

TheDevice.2751:

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others…

Well. If you disregard facts then sure.

I am not disregarding facts. There is no amulet in the game right now that is OP on any class. Strong, yes, but not OP. Balance is fairly good right now and the thing that makes certain classes slightly stronger than others is certainly not amulet choice.

Additionally, removing amulets for certain classes is basically the same as removing them from the game- if Menders was removed from Druid and ele, other classes would not start using that amulet. It would just become an unused amulet (other than occasionally for engi) which is no better than removing it from the game in my opinion.

WHY IS ANYONE REMOVING AMULETS?

IM only talking about bringing some amulets back but only for certain classes. How is this so hard to explain id;lkjsdlkjg;lkjg

I admit that I did not read the post when you said you were talking about adding amulets, and I apologise for that. However, I still do not believe it is a good idea. For example if merc amulet was added but only for classes that were not too strong with it previously, it would just be an unused amulet because the classes it would be added for will already have better amulet choices. Of course it would open up more options for people to run different builds, but they would all be useless builds compared to the meta so it doesn’t really matter.

Adding amulets that have already been removed is good as long as classes are balanced to not be too strong with these amulets, but it must be for every class. I can just never get on board with the idea with certain amulets for certain classes becaus they will either make the class too strong again or just never be used.

Now i have to apologize because this actually doesn’t make sense. It really doesn’t. Anyone reading this would know this isn’t true. It just isn’kittens obviously not true. The logic isn’t there. Like what you’re actually saying is that since celestial amulet was too strong on an engineer or ele, that it was too strong on a necromancer. This is blatantly untrue.

You’re saying either some amulets are either going to be too strong or useless and I don’t know how or where you got this assessment. I really don’t know it just makes zero sense at all. You must know in your heart of hearts that this doesn’t make sense.

Even in the sense that they might not get used… Its still promoting build diversity. Its still opening up the possibilities.

Just a second ago you were complaining about build diversity now you’re an advocate for less build diversity. You are against build diversity now?

TheDevice.2751:

suffish.4150:

TheDevice.2751:

suffish.4150:

TheDevice.2751:

I do not believe that certain amulets are OP on certain classes and not on others…

Well. If you disregard facts then sure.

I am not disregarding facts. There is no amulet in the game right now that is OP on any class. Strong, yes, but not OP. Balance is fairly good right now and the thing that makes certain classes slightly stronger than others is certainly not amulet choice.

Additionally, removing amulets for certain classes is basically the same as removing them from the game- if Menders was removed from Druid and ele, other classes would not start using that amulet. It would just become an unused amulet (other than occasionally for engi) which is no better than removing it from the game in my opinion.

WHY IS ANYONE REMOVING AMULETS?

IM only talking about bringing some amulets back but only for certain classes. How is this so hard to explain id;lkjsdlkjg;lkjg

I admit that I did not read the post when you said you were talking about adding amulets, and I apologise for that. However, I still do not believe it is a good idea. For example if merc amulet was added but only for classes that were not too strong with it previously, it would just be an unused amulet because the classes it would be added for will already have better amulet choices. Of course it would open up more options for people to run different builds, but they would all be useless builds compared to the meta so it doesn’t really matter.

Adding amulets that have already been removed is good as long as classes are balanced to not be too strong with these amulets, but it must be for every class. I can just never get on board with the idea with certain amulets for certain classes becaus they will either make the class too strong again or just never be used.

Now i have to apologize because this actually doesn’t make sense. It really doesn’t. Anyone reading this would know this isn’t true. It just isn’kittens obviously not true. The logic isn’t there. Like what you’re actually saying is that since celestial amulet was too strong on an engineer or ele, that it was too strong on a necromancer. This is blatantly untrue.

You’re saying either some amulets are either going to be too strong or useless and I don’t know how or where you got this assessment. I really don’t know it just makes zero sense at all. You must know in your heart of hearts that this doesn’t make sense.

Even in the sense that they might not get used… Its still promoting build diversity. Its still opening up the possibilities.

Just a second ago you were complaining about build diversity now you’re an advocate for less build diversity. You are against build diversity now?

What I am saying is that amulets were removed because they were too strong on certain classes, but that does not mean that they were too strong on everything like you seem to think I said. The amulets that were removed were indeed OP on some classes, but they were still useless on the classes that did not use them because of 0 build diversity. This means that without first balancing the classes that used these amulets so they could use them again without being too strong, adding them would cause them to be OP again BUT adding them just for classes that did not sue them in the meta will not really do anything because they would never use the amulets due to there being much better alternatives. Sure, it helps with build diversity in terms of giving more choice, but it dos not help with build diversity in terms of making more build viable. This is why instead of adding amulets just for classes that would not be OP with them, Anet should just add the amulets back in the game for everyone after altering skills and traits so it would not make certain classes too strong again.

Hope this makes sense.

suffish.4150:

Sure, it helps with build diversity in terms of giving more choice, but it dos not help with build diversity in terms of making more build viable. This is why instead of adding amulets just for classes that would not be OP with them, Anet should just add the amulets back in the game for everyone after altering skills and traits so it would not make certain classes too strong again.

Hope this makes sense.

No not really. It would be easier for Anet to just add amulets to certain classes that are okay with using them.

“Sure, it helps with build diversity in terms of giving more choice, but it dos not help with build diversity in terms of making more build viable”

You absolutely don’t know that for sure. Celestial amulet could be a really strong alternative for necromancers right now and was being used competitively.

This only helps.

it would make more sense to simly remove the overpowered 4-stat amulets,

and make poeple actually choose a weakness in their builds again.

Anet really needs to stop kittening around with amulets, unless they want to balance out the stats so that 4 stat amulets aren’t so much better than 3 stat ones. Ele would’ve been fine if they just nerfed Celestial, but I guess that takes more effort.

Definitely agree that the 4 stat ones are clearly vastly superior, and it makes little sense to leave the old 3 stat ones in as is.

I also agree with the OP to some degree that it’s downright ignorant to act as if all amulets are equally useful for all professions, and that some are downright OPd for some professions. This has clearly lead to the removal of some amulets that were obviously a balance issue on 1 or 2 meta profession/build combos, while on almost all others the amulet was either balanced or downright useless.

We still have this issue now, only a different set of professions/builds are the benefactors then before the removal of some amulets. So in a way the OP makes a great point, it’s perhaps a much simpler way to balance this game then what —in an ideal world-- would be the correct way, which would be to balance the classes without regard to amulets (and gear in general), in such a way that each amulet would be equally useful to all professions.

We all know that the latter simply ain’t gonna happen!

So why not add profession restrictions to amulets? I think it’s actually a pretty good idea to quickly reach a more balanced state then what we have now.

1) Evaluate all 3-stat amulets and bring them up to par with the 4 stat ones
2) Bring back some popular ones from the past, including Celestial
3) Apply profession restrictions to each amulet to prevent the return of OPd builds for those professions

Then you can quickly and easily handle OPd builds on a case-by-case basis, and react much more quickly to problem builds by simply tweaking the class restrictions on the amulets. (Which should be done even during an ongoing season when it becomes clear that one build/profession is simply way out of hand.)

Probably a bit idealistic too, but far more likely to lead to decent balance then the current “maintenance mode” schedule of rare and insufficient balance changes between seasons. (I swear the last balance patch was about 1/5th the size of what it should have been. Shameful patch IMO! It was a huge disappointment and looks like about 1 weeks worth of work.)

Not sure I want to pony up cash for an expansion of a game whose live team has obviously no interest anymore in investing time/resources towards addressing the numerous issues, bugs, imbalances, etc.

Honestly, I hate the idea of removing sta combos, because they never go back and make balance changes for WvW when they do that, so everything is still insane.