Guild Wars 2

Dear Anet,

Whether it be rotating in conquest, finishing maps in open world, racing through a dungeon, storming back to a fight after dieing in wvw, or chasing someone, mobility is essential. With the upcoming changes, several classes lack of mobility really stand out:

Guardians mobility has gotten a little better, but one 600 range leap, teleports that require targets, and no 25% movement speed anywhere are just not enough to keep up with other classes.

Mesmers similarly need access to 25% movement speed bonus outside the specialization and more swiftness. The leaps they have could also use a range increase (sword to 900, staff to 600).

Necromancers are probably the worst. While they have access to swiftness and 25% movement speed bonuses, they lack any real gap closer or teleport. Wurm needs to either be instant or be a selfish version of portal, Spectral Walk needs a port at the beginning to be on par with thieves shadowstep, Dark path can literally be outran so it needs 3X travel velocity, and/or the new Death’s Charge needs to be 900 range to go with the huge 1 second cast.

I don’t expect these classes to be faster than thieves, eles, or warriors who are clearly designed to be the fastest, but right now far too much effort goes into simple map travel. With the upcoming changes to leap skills, it will be far too easy to disengage from these classes that lack serious mobility. While this is partly by design, combat will be extremely stale for people on these classes if they can never actually kill anyone and that’s something I know you don’t want to see happen.

Best Regards,
Zap

Finally a post with some thought behind it. Seems those are rarer than precursor drops on these forums.

One issue is, movement skills are not equal in diffirent game modes. Judge’s Intervention might be a bit meh when doing world completion (for ex. when you don’t want to go into combat), but it’s amazing in pvp, since it’s pretty much a wallhack.
Same with staff blink on mesmer – it’s too short to be of much use in pve, but in pvp it opens up tons of shortcuts.

This just reinforces the point that more skills should get pvp/pve split.

I mostly agree when it comes to necro. Wurm dies from a sneeze with air/fire procc, I always kill it whenever I see one, rarely having the stop moving for it. Death’s Charge… it’s a step in the right direction, but 600 units can be covered in about the same time by running with swiftness.
Spectral Walk should stay as it is though. Necro shouldn’t really be blinking around.

“But we dont want all classes to feel the same”

so necro must be a 1v1 slow monster that insta dies in even 2v2 focus fire

good post, though i think the mesmer 25% speed and less criple will be huge, basicaly add 5-10% dmg from not runing traveler runes

Flumek.9043:

“But we dont want all classes to feel the same”

so necro must be a 1v1 slow monster that insta dies in even 2v2 focus fire

good post, though i think the mesmer 25% speed and less criple will be huge, basicaly add 5-10% dmg from not runing traveler runes

..have to see nos and 5g in 2v2 tournament?

lighter.2708:

Flumek.9043:

“But we dont want all classes to feel the same”

so necro must be a 1v1 slow monster that insta dies in even 2v2 focus fire

good post, though i think the mesmer 25% speed and less criple will be huge, basicaly add 5-10% dmg from not runing traveler runes

..have to see nos and 5g in 2v2 tournament?

A good player on a class doesn’t mean the class is strong. A weak class with a very good player can still beat a less skilled player on a stronger class.

That said, I don’t think necros are as weak as the OP is suggesting.

mesmers got ports that are unaffected by changes so actually they got indirect buff a bit

necro is designed to be rather slow, surely they could use some moblity buff but they would have to lose some defensive and/or offensive power imo

also, don’t forget, cripple is still there and new effect slow also is being added

Cynz.9437:

also, don’t forget, cripple is still there and new effect slow also is being added

Which, contrary to the name, has nothing to do with movement speed.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow

Harrier.9380:

Cynz.9437:

also, don’t forget, cripple is still there and new effect slow also is being added

Which, contrary to the name, has nothing to do with movement speed.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow

it also means that leaping skills will have slower animations thus making character move foward slower….

Auldon.1972:

That said, I don’t think necros are as weak as the OP is suggesting.

While at the same time being far far far weaker than all the people who can’t beat a power necro think.

Cynz.9437:

mesmers got ports that are unaffected by changes so actually they got indirect buff a bit

necro is designed to be rather slow, surely they could use some moblity buff but they would have to lose some defensive and/or offensive power imo

The changes aren’t a buff or a nerf to leap skills, so mesmers didnt get a buff.

Necros have the weakest defence in the entire game, so definitely can’t take from there. Their offense is also not nearly as good as people think, the damage isn’t any better than any other classes zerker builds (actual dps), it just all comes at once with the COD proc. I would be ok with them nerfing chill of death (proc on interrupt, longer CD), maybe lower the damage and cast time of life blast, but the dps is actually pretty poor.

Also, my point was that these classes need buffs to mobility without any kind of nerfs to compensate. Their mobility just needs to be better just to keep up with other classes. Also note I’m not advocating for all of the buffs I listed, just 1 or 2 buffs would be fine.

I think we all need good mobility to an extent, and I honestly think most classes have got that. Except the necromancer. Their mobility is not even close to decent. Make flesh wurm a single person portal or make it a one click ability like lightning flash not 3 clicks.

Auldon.1972:

lighter.2708:

Flumek.9043:

“But we dont want all classes to feel the same”

so necro must be a 1v1 slow monster that insta dies in even 2v2 focus fire

good post, though i think the mesmer 25% speed and less criple will be huge, basicaly add 5-10% dmg from not runing traveler runes

..have to see nos and 5g in 2v2 tournament?

A good player on a class doesn’t mean the class is strong. A weak class with a very good player can still beat a less skilled player on a stronger class.

That said, I don’t think necros are as weak as the OP is suggesting.

Your augment is flawed, it’s not simply a good player on a class in soloq hotjoin.
it’s a good players against good players in 2v2 in a tournament and being succesful, which completely stands and counters previous opinion.

if you say hes good player but hes not being succesful then your argument may stand, but it’s not the case, which only led to player skill, and game should not be balanced around bad players.

I find GW2 more frustrating than fun and the differences in mobility are a main cause. It reduces build options, limits classes to certain roles, and really makes it so some classes feel like sitting ducks. I don’t see it kitten much a balance issue as a QOL issue.

no.

not every class needs to be a jack of all trades; it’s a teamgame!

jesus christ – this is getting embarrassing……

zapv.8051:

Auldon.1972:

That said, I don’t think necros are as weak as the OP is suggesting.

While at the same time being far far far weaker than all the people who can’t beat a power necro think.

Cynz.9437:

mesmers got ports that are unaffected by changes so actually they got indirect buff a bit

necro is designed to be rather slow, surely they could use some moblity buff but they would have to lose some defensive and/or offensive power imo

The changes aren’t a buff or a nerf to leap skills, so mesmers didnt get a buff.

Necros have the weakest defence in the entire game, so definitely can’t take from there. Their offense is also not nearly as good as people think, the damage isn’t any better than any other classes zerker builds (actual dps), it just all comes at once with the COD proc. I would be ok with them nerfing chill of death (proc on interrupt, longer CD), maybe lower the damage and cast time of life blast, but the dps is actually pretty poor.

Also, my point was that these classes need buffs to mobility without any kind of nerfs to compensate. Their mobility just needs to be better just to keep up with other classes. Also note I’m not advocating for all of the buffs I listed, just 1 or 2 buffs would be fine.

- “weakest defense” – excuse me, wat?… have you tried to play ele/thief/mesmer/ranger?
- necros don’t have to run zerker build only….. they shine at condis, why not run them?……

necros are anything but squishy and they do considerable dmg, they just happen to have different kind of moblity via keeping target chilled/crippled/CCd instead of porting to them…. it is all fine and good but conquest is about holding points and moving fast between them

necros are ok in team fights but due to lack of team support and stab they just get outshined by other profs
and obviously they can’t move around the map as fast as mesmers/eles/thieves etc.

my point is, imagine thief would have above 20k HP, second health bar, fears and elite with 1 shot AA while keeping all their moblity moves… that is what necro would be if they buffed their moblity

there is reason why mobile classes in this game are squishy (besides wars, which deal most dmg from melee and kind of need it)

PowerBottom.5796:

no.

not every class needs to be a jack of all trades; it’s a teamgame!

jesus christ – this is getting embarrassing……

No, not every class needs to be a jack of all trades your right, but mobility is only one aspect of the game. It is also, as I explained in my first post, something that is ubiquitous in the game. I’m also not asking for all classes to have the same amount of mobility, I just see these three classes as overwhelmingly subpar in moving around maps, which is a major hindrance to basic gameplay.

Cynz.9437:

- “weakest defense” – excuse me, wat?… have you tried to play ele/thief/mesmer/ranger?
- necros don’t have to run zerker build only….. they shine at condis, why not run them?……

necros are anything but squishy and they do considerable dmg, they just happen to have different kind of moblity via keeping target chilled/crippled/CCd instead of porting to them…. it is all fine and good but conquest is about holding points and moving fast between them

necros are ok in team fights but due to lack of team support and stab they just get outshined by other profs
and obviously they can’t move around the map as fast as mesmers/eles/thieves etc.

my point is, imagine thief would have above 20k HP, second health bar, fears and elite with 1 shot AA while keeping all their moblity moves… that is what necro would be if they buffed their moblity

there is reason why mobile classes in this game are squishy (besides wars, which deal most dmg from melee and kind of need it)

Yes I have played all those classes and they all have way more defense than necros. You seem to think HP=defense, but then I’ll ask why don’t bosses live longer than classes when they clearly have way more HP. Thieves have the best defense in the game, this is obvious by the fact that good thieves rarely die. Necros have the worst defense because their is very little they can do against chain cc immobilize and burst. I’ve also played the necromancer class extensively, and am well aware that condition builds exist. Like all condition builds though, they are mostly irrelevant in a meta where shoutbow and medi guard exist.

Soft cc is not the same as mobility, soft cc can only be used in combat, and mobility can be used everywhere. Having a lot of soft cc does not mean a class should be devoid of a basic tool for traversing the many maps in the game. Again, squishy does not mean a class has little defense.

My point is, I’m not asking for thief levels of mobility on necros. That’s a terrible argument because giving necros a few buffs to mobility wouldn’t suddenly put them on par with thieves. You seem to not understand what I’m asking for, so let me explain it again.

I want necros, mesmers, and guards to get reasonable buffs to their mobility. Things like a 25% movement signet for mesmers, perma swiftness if they spec for it. Instant cast on necros blink, to make it like every other classes. Dark path having a faster travel time so classes can’t outrun it with swiftness. Guards having a little more range on their leap and port because they exist in melee just like warrs. All of these are not things that would put these classes mobility on par with the current kings of mobility, thief, war, and ele, but would make traversing maps, and rotating in pvp much more reasonable.

On another note, I’m getting really tired of people on this forum thinking someone is inexperienced just because they disagree with them. Until someone has shown otherwise, please treat others as if they are aware of game mechanics.

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necro often is/can be. Especially reaper.

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Let’s not forget the usefulness of CC and movement conditions oh wait…

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necros are whatever range the people fighting them want because they can’t do much about it. Mesmers get the most benefit out of shatters in melee range, so yes I would say they are.

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necro often is/can be. Especially reaper.

that is specialization not actual weapon sets… dagger is only thing that comes in mind and probably should have had some mobility in it instead of immob but other weapons? not really

Sagat.3285:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Let’s not forget the usefulness of CC and movement conditions oh wait…

that is exactly where whole problem comes from for necros…. on paper their moblity consists of keeping target immobile… that obviously doesn’t work so well in reality due to cleanses/ports… thingis, if they did give necros more own moblity they would have to take something away…

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necro often is/can be. Especially reaper.

that is specialization not actual weapon sets… dagger is only thing that comes in mind and probably should have had some mobility in it instead of immob but other weapons? not really

Well I mean… You can’t be picky about it, dagger is pretty much the primary power weapon for necro, and Reaper adds melee shroud and GS, and the RS3 mobility isn’t very dependable because if you get jumped with no LF you’re just screwed.

Necro does need more mobility because regardless of base combat mobility also means roaming/objective usefulness too… Sucks to be only a partial roamed and always outclassed because another class perform all the same zerker role positions and can get from place to place in a third of the time.

zapv.8051:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necros are whatever range the people fighting them want because they can’t do much about it. Mesmers get the most benefit out of shatters in melee range, so yes I would say they are.

on paper they should be… cripple/chill/fears~

maybe mes does benefit from shatter in melee but if mesmer spends whole fight in melee, they get downed faster than own clones :P

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necro often is/can be. Especially reaper.

that is specialization not actual weapon sets… dagger is only thing that comes in mind and probably should have had some mobility in it instead of immob but other weapons? not really

Well I mean… You can’t be picky about it, dagger is pretty much the primary power weapon for necro, and Reaper adds melee shroud and GS, and the RS3 mobility isn’t very dependable because if you get jumped with no LF you’re just screwed.

Necro does need more mobility because regardless of base combat mobility also means roaming/objective usefulness too… Sucks to be only a partial roamed and always outclassed because another class perform all the same zerker role positions and can get from place to place in a third of the time.

i am not saying necros shouldn’t get more moblity, i am saying they would need to lose something for it as trade off because they weren’t designed to be mobile from begin with… and classes who are designed to be mobile are extremely squishy and/or have to sit in melee to be able to land high dmg (in both cases necro isn’t, you may argue with it all you want)

Cynz.9437:

zapv.8051:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necros are whatever range the people fighting them want because they can’t do much about it. Mesmers get the most benefit out of shatters in melee range, so yes I would say they are.

on paper they should be… cripple/chill/fears~

maybe mes does benefot from shatter in melee but if mesmer spends whole fight in melee, they get downed faster than own clones :P

On paper yes they have 3 ranged weapons (not sure if I should count axe), but rangers are mostly ranged, and have similar levels of cc yet aren’t nearly as slow. The point your trying to make doesn’t really work for this reason.

What you’ve basically said is that mesmers need a ton more mobility because they need to get into melee to deal damage and then get out to not die.

Cynz.9437:

i am not saying necros shouldn’t get more moblity, i am saying they would need to lose something for it as trade off because they weren’t designed to be mobile from begin with… and classes who are designed to be mobile are extremely squishy and/or have to sit in melee to be able to land high dmg (in both cases necro isn’t, you may argue with it all you want)

Your once again assuming we are looking for buffs to put them on par with thieves, warriors and eles, but we aren’t. Currently, necros mobility is like a 1 and we want to make it a 3 or 4, meanwhile thieves and warrs are 9s. They wouldn’t need to be nerfed at all for these small mobility buffs we are asking for. Also, necros need to be pretty close to melee range to deal a lot of damage, dagger, warhorn, Life blast (600 range or less for max damage), life transfer, tainted shackles, and axe are all relatively close. At the same time, it isn’t like necros do godlike damage, remember they are still the worst class in pve.

zapv.8051:

Cynz.9437:

zapv.8051:

Cynz.9437:

Ask yourself: is mesmer or necro melee classes?

Necros are whatever range the people fighting them want because they can’t do much about it. Mesmers get the most benefit out of shatters in melee range, so yes I would say they are.

on paper they should be… cripple/chill/fears~

maybe mes does benefot from shatter in melee but if mesmer spends whole fight in melee, they get downed faster than own clones :P

On paper yes they have 3 ranged weapons (not sure if I should count axe), but rangers are mostly ranged, and have similar levels of cc yet aren’t nearly as slow. The point your trying to make doesn’t really work for this reason.

What you’ve basically said is that mesmers need a ton more mobility because they need to get into melee to deal damage and then get out to not die.

actually rangers are pretty slow if they camp bow… so yes, my point actually works here :P

and yes, that is what i am saying about mesmers

Cynz.9437:

actually rangers are pretty slow if they camp bow… so yes, my point actually works here :P

and yes, that is what i am saying about mesmers

If they camp bow, well thieves are pretty slow if they camp p/p too, but they don’t do that and a good ranger won’t camp bow. That’s the moving the goalpost logical fallacy.

What about guards? you think they would be OP with 25% movement speed signet? What about extra 300 range on sword 2 and gs 3.

zapv.8051:

Cynz.9437:

actually rangers are pretty slow if they camp bow… so yes, my point actually works here :P

and yes, that is what i am saying about mesmers

If they camp bow, well thieves are pretty slow if they camp p/p too, but they don’t do that and a good ranger won’t camp bow. That’s the moving the goalpost logical fallacy.

What about guards? you think they would be OP with 25% movement speed signet? What about extra 300 range on sword 2 and gs 3.

since when thieves played pp in pvp?
that’s the point, if ranger switches to melee he gains some moblity… why do you not understand it?

why would guard need more moblity?

Yeah I would think these changes would need a complete balance change to compensate.

Those classes with extreme mobility are also some of the most defenseless classes in game. Their defense is they can out move you and disengage when needed. If they cant out maneuver you, then how do they defend themselves?

“Necromancers are probably the worst” They are the worst mobility profession!

PowerBottom.5796:

no.

not every class needs to be a jack of all trades; it’s a teamgame!

jesus christ – this is getting embarrassing……

Yeah but the alternative is what we have now, where the jack of all trades classes with mobility are chronically superior to other classes.

gotta see it this way, not that it is an excuse in any way but at least it’s a step in the right direction.

by taking the reaper trait that gives you +25% movement speed in shroud, -66% movement condition duration, hoelbrak runes and the 5s 600 range leap you will be more or less an unstoppable force with:

+25% movement speed (in shroud)
-91% cripple, chill, immob duration (i think it’s calculated that way)
600 range leap on 5 kitten cooldown and a 600 range pull.

now this comes nowhere near what other classes have but it’s at least better than what necro has now. flesh wurm could also use a 1/4s cast time.

There are two ledge on the center point of Nifhel.

Some classes can port to the top of these ledges and free cast on anybody in the middle. This is a huge advantage that either everybody should possess or nobody should posses.

Fix the broken teleport spots or everybody gets teleports.

Jekkt.6045:

-91% cripple, chill, immob duration (i think it’s calculated that way)

All duration modifiers are added together, then applied to the base for the final result. Hoelbrak and Unstoppable Onslaught total an 86% reduction on Cripple, Chill and Immobilize while in Reaper’s Shroud. However, for example, another Reaper applying Chill would only have a -66% reduction (Cold Shoulder boosting Chill by 20%) (-66%-20%+20%=-66%)

thanks for the clarification still not too bad i guess^^
so all that’s left of a 2s immob is 0.28s. not sure how the game handles this atm… i know some effects used to get round up to the next full second but afaik this changed with a patch that addressed stuns and condis.

Jekkt.6045:

thanks for the clarification still not too bad i guess^^
so all that’s left of a 2s immob is 0.28s. not sure how the game handles this atm… i know some effects used to get round up to the next full second but afaik this changed with a patch that addressed stuns and condis.

Aldo bear in mind condition duration is no longer a free stat so conditions as a while will be lasting shorter. Means traits such as dogged march, geromancers freedom etc will be note effective and not get nullified completely right off the bat by trait line +30% duration.

Jekkt.6045:

now this comes nowhere near what other classes have

Yes, that’s the point. The 600 range leap needs to be 900 range. It has a full 1 second cast, that isn’t much faster than walking with swiftness. The pull will be nice, but again 600 range is not a lot. Also, no necro should take hoelbrek runes, they have a lot of condition removal already.

As I said, flesh wurm should be instant or portal range. 1/4 second is not good enough for a port stun break. It needs to be castable while stunned. Everything else you posted is about reaper, and not everyone will have that. Basically, even if reaper gave necros thief levels of mobility it still wouldn’t justify how weak the mobility on base necro is.

Yes, that’s the point. The 600 range leap needs to be 900 range. It has a full 1 second cast, that isn’t much faster than walking with swiftness.

It has relative speed to all other leaps in the game. Rush and RtL move 1200 units in 2s and this moves 600 units in 1s. Its exactly the same 600u/s as those other skills. It would be to far at 900 range and it doesnt auto aim, going that far in a straight line would be annoying and make the last blast on which poison and path of corruption proc on hard to hit.

Yes please. Then Necro would be viable again.

do you even know about the nonsense you’re talking about here?

ride the lightning is also 1200 range per 2 seconds on a 40s cooldown so the reaper dash is essentially 4x ride the lightning in the same time…

hoelbrak runes is not only about condition duration but also about other things and flesh wurm instacast and stunbreak would be insanely op….

i can’t help it that they designed necro to be a class with no mobility and if they don’t feel like giving base necro more mobility then so be it. i am totally happy with what they gave reaper and if you can’t see the potential in it then that’s your problem.

Saying all classes need a 25% move speed trait is awfully close to saying everyone needs to equip their 25% move speed trait/signet which is bad in the first place.