Guild Wars 2

First of all, current meta is semi-bunker also a common support bunker.
And there are 4 professions that common:
Mesmer – Chrono
Revenant – Herald
Engineer – Scraper
Elementalist – Tempest
All 4 are HoT elite specs. Why we join them together in current mate?
Revenant is semi-immune to condition, damage and effects, got high sustain vs ability damage itself.
In other hand* Engineer* is dealing ability damage and have abilities to counter play Revenant, and also got ability to counter play some sort of condition application, also got CC and zoning, also got skill that 90000000000000 timesbetter that shadow refuge.
Elementalist got both types of damage with high AOE. And he is full-immune to condition, damage, also got burst potential, also got CC.
Mesmer – got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.
Lets see who is left.
Thief
Guardian
Necromancer
Warrior
Ranger – Druid is super good, and could work, probably he got some problems with condition application, and sustain.

Ok, Thief
There is following problems.
Before start from new one, lets talk about old ones.
AOE was issue for thief before HoT, but it was in other forms that you can dodge, but constant bunker wars isn’t a place for position your self properly.
Retaliation – one of big problems of melee oriented classes, probably one of biggest ones.
Overglowing screen – some sort of class can absorb and heal damage that enemy team deal to you, but Thief is based on dodges, you can’t just random dodges, you need to notice incoming attacks.
And there is a couple new ones – HoT nerf thief damage.
You no longer gain stacks of might when you are in stealth, that make shadow arts not so good at general, and that mastery line gives you condition cleaners.
Acrobatics just looks strange. Let’s check this:
Expeditious Dodger – is a weak version of Unhindered Combatant
Fleet Shadow was useless from 2012 till probably forever.
Guarded Initiation – 90% threshold at thief, on class without constant protection access.
Assassin’s Reward – heal yourself at start of the fight, then start to heal yourself. Also it’s a weak version of Invigorating Precision
Don’t Stop weak version of Unhindered Combatant
Upper Hand 3 sec CD, for a 1 initiative, it’s a biggest initiative regen in minute if you constant dodging all incoming attacks every 3 seconds why i put this here – the problem is simple, it’s not rewarding in attack and thief don’t have good defense play potential.
Other Thief problems:
The revealed effect lasts 1 second longer in sPvP
If an enemy is channeling an attack on a player that goes into stealth, it will often continue to do so until the channeling ends or the player moves far enough away.
Conclusion: Thief got problems with condition and a way of dealing with it – losing damage and become more useless in constant protection meta, even if you steal protection new will instantly proc from runes of durability.

Guardian
There is a following problems – conditions, reflections, stability.
Guardian also are affected by retaliation.
Well it’s still decent bunker, but problem here is – team can support you and you can’t offer them anything.
You have new way of playing – DH, that can’t do much with weakness and constant protection.

Warrior
There is a following problems – conditions, other classes are probably full immune to cripple and immobilize, also semi or full immune to stuns.
Warrior also are affected by retaliation.
Warrior have big problems with damage on Hammer, mace and axe.
And new stats medallions make health pulls bigger and warrior damage not changed or nerfed in some builds.
Constant protections force you play condition warrior, but warrior traits that make warrior good condition damage dealer are separated by mastery lines, probably to much. You can’t offer good condition cleaner, defense potential and decent condition damage. But Revs have no problems with that even more, they also got more mobility.

Necromancer
In 100% of my games there is at least 1 necro. There can be games without meta classes, even more without few of them, but necro will be there.
Necro is one of most polish classes at start, necros problems wasn’t on top, probably because of that.
But i can talk about not optimal stas amulet combination for Necro, also there is problems with low damage output in power build, that make it not rewarding to play. And semi-immune to condition damage classes.

What Anet can do:
I don’t know.

You think druid has a sustain issue. Please, make a druid, don’t be creative and steal the metabattle build, see if it has sustain.

LastHope.8127:

You think druid has a sustain issue. Please, make a druid, don’t be creative and steal the metabattle build, see if it has sustain.

Did you read it? I said that it super good. Minor issue escalates quickly under the focus.
I played for a while at druid in different builds, also in metabattle ones, that have minimum difference.

ActionRadius.3792:

LastHope.8127:

You think druid has a sustain issue. Please, make a druid, don’t be creative and steal the metabattle build, see if it has sustain.

Did you read it? I said that it super good. Minor issue escalates quickly under the focus.
I played for a while at druid in different builds, also in metabattle ones, that have minimum difference.

`Yes, but you said no sustain. I out sustain eles and bunker mesmers with druid lol.

“Mesmer – got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Mesmer has had multiple ways to deal with conditions. The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

Put the move speed buff on the domination trait line.

That would actually be a small swing at chrono bunker, no effect on chrono shatter, and a small buff for normal mesmer.

Chrono Bunker would have to ask whether it wants to move as slow as an epileptic turtle, or swap out durability runes for travelers.

Or, would it want to swap one of its necessary trait lines for domination?

You’ll note, I didn’t suggest dueling.

Dueling would be pretty powerful for a mixed burst/bunker mesmer, and would make its heals bigger. So swapping say, chaos for dueling, wouldn’t be a horrible deal. You lose some stab and boons, but gain 25% movement speed, dodge clones, and blinds.

Thus, I suggested domination to make it a much harder choice. Domination isn’t as good unless it’s paired with dueling.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Mesmer – got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Mesmer has had multiple ways to deal with conditions. The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

Put the move speed buff on the domination trait line.

That would actually be a small swing at chrono bunker, no effect on chrono shatter, and a small buff for normal mesmer.

Chrono Bunker would have to ask whether it wants to move as slow as an epileptic turtle, or swap out durability runes for travelers.

Or, would it want to swap one of its necessary trait lines for domination?

You’ll note, I didn’t suggest dueling.

Dueling would be pretty powerful for a mixed burst/bunker mesmer, and would make its heals bigger. So swapping say, chaos for dueling, wouldn’t be a horrible deal. You lose some stab and boons, but gain 25% movement speed, dodge clones, and blinds.

Thus, I suggested domination to make it a much harder choice. Domination isn’t as good unless it’s paired with dueling.

That’s never gonna happen.

Velimere.7685:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Mesmer – got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Mesmer has had multiple ways to deal with conditions. The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

Put the move speed buff on the domination trait line.

That would actually be a small swing at chrono bunker, no effect on chrono shatter, and a small buff for normal mesmer.

Chrono Bunker would have to ask whether it wants to move as slow as an epileptic turtle, or swap out durability runes for travelers.

Or, would it want to swap one of its necessary trait lines for domination?

You’ll note, I didn’t suggest dueling.

Dueling would be pretty powerful for a mixed burst/bunker mesmer, and would make its heals bigger. So swapping say, chaos for dueling, wouldn’t be a horrible deal. You lose some stab and boons, but gain 25% movement speed, dodge clones, and blinds.

Thus, I suggested domination to make it a much harder choice. Domination isn’t as good unless it’s paired with dueling.

That’s never gonna happen.

So, no criticism of the actual suggestion.
Just more ANet hatred I assume?

Don’t waste your breath, play a different game.

ArenaNet lacks a balance team, combat needs more than nerfs and fixes. It needs a complete rework.

LastHope.8127:

`Yes, but you said no sustain. I out sustain eles and bunker mesmers with druid lol.

<some problems with condition application, and sustain>

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

I think you have problems. But it’s not meant that everyone has that problem.

ActionRadius.3792:

LastHope.8127:

`Yes, but you said no sustain. I out sustain eles and bunker mesmers with druid lol.

<some problems with condition application, and sustain>

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

I think you have problems. But it’s not meant that everyone has that problem.

I’m afraid I don’t understand this response.
Do you care to, idk, actually respond? Rather than saying “I think you have problems.”.

Do you think it’s good design that a chrono bunker can move around the map just as fast as a chrono shatter mesmer??
For free?
Not having sacrifice a single thing, to move just as fast.

The point of a bunker build is to bunk down on a point, not push to far at the same pace a roamer build does, and then prevent the enemy team from ever capping their home node.

Any counter to this suggestion?

Any response as to why the speed isn’t part of the issue, and that it’s just the condi clear? Which honestly isn’t even that much anyway.

I waited a few minutes for you to hopefully edit that in, but it didn’t come.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I’m afraid I don’t understand this response.
Do you care to, idk, actually respond? Rather than saying “I think you have problems.”.

Do you think it’s good design that a chrono bunker can move around the map just as fast as a chrono shatter mesmer??
For free?
Not having sacrifice a single thing, to move just as fast.

The point of a bunker build is to bunk down on a point, not push to far at the same pace a roamer build does, and then prevent the enemy team from ever capping their home node.

Any counter to this suggestion?

Any response as to why the speed isn’t part of the issue, and that it’s just the condi clear? Which honestly isn’t even that much anyway.

I waited a few minutes for you to hopefully edit that in, but it didn’t come.

Fair comment.
Shatter Mesmer now don’t use Staff, and Bunker got it. And it’s solved all movement problems.
Second. Bunker not a roamer, it’s a bunker, making your self bunker – you limited your mobility potential in movement and in target switching.
*In other hand. *
Shatter Mesmer got: portal, blink and decoy.
That helps him escape focus. Instantly move around a map from A to B. He got the target switch mobility, you can instantly use momentum to kill a foe. If you don’t want to use staff you got probably torch – it’s a some kind of second decoy with a good damage on it.
It’s definitely more mobility.

Problem not in mobility of mesmers. You can kill, but probably can’t offer a stomp. Or you can’t kill, but can offer a stomp.

ActionRadius.3792:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I’m afraid I don’t understand this response.
Do you care to, idk, actually respond? Rather than saying “I think you have problems.”.

Do you think it’s good design that a chrono bunker can move around the map just as fast as a chrono shatter mesmer??
For free?
Not having sacrifice a single thing, to move just as fast.

The point of a bunker build is to bunk down on a point, not push to far at the same pace a roamer build does, and then prevent the enemy team from ever capping their home node.

Any counter to this suggestion?

Any response as to why the speed isn’t part of the issue, and that it’s just the condi clear? Which honestly isn’t even that much anyway.

I waited a few minutes for you to hopefully edit that in, but it didn’t come.

Fair comment.
Shatter Mesmer now don’t use Staff, and Bunker got it. And it’s solved all movement problems.
Second. Bunker not a roamer, it’s a bunker, making your self bunker – you limited your mobility potential in movement and in target switching.
*In other hand. *
Shatter Mesmer got: portal, blink and decoy.
That helps him escape focus. Instantly move around a map from A to B. He got the target switch mobility, you can instantly use momentum to kill a foe. If you don’t want to use staff you got probably torch – it’s a some kind of second decoy with a good damage on it.
It’s definitely more mobility.

Problem not in mobility of mesmers. You can kill, but probably can’t offer a stomp. Or you can’t kill, but can offer a stomp.

“Shatter Mesmer now don’t use Staff, and Bunker got it. And it’s solved all movement problems.”
That actually just makes bunker even MORE mobile than shatter mesmer, as staff lost its viability for shatter due to the condition changes back in the day.

“Second. Bunker not a roamer, it’s a bunker, making your self bunker – you limited your mobility potential in movement and in target switching.”
A bunker rotating to a point, instantly makes a roamer not bother going there. Unless it’s a druid. As a +1 Chrono Shatter against a druid actually ends very quickly in the Chrono Shatter’s favor. The thing here, is that bunker mesmer is able to roam and keep multiple points contended through its movement speed & its portal. Where as, without that movement speed, once portal is down it would be riskier to leave its point and help out mid/home (if its already in mid). Leaving room for a roamer to get a decap.

“Problem not in mobility of mesmers. You can kill, but probably can’t offer a stomp. Or you can’t kill, but can offer a stomp.”
Distortion means you can usually do both. Portal stomp as well.

The change I suggested would make bunker mesmer slower (Making portal a little less valuable, as it’s not going to rotate as quickly), leave Chrono Shatter in the same position that it’s already in, and would buff normal mesmer slightly (You seriously have to run travelers, or you’re literally useless, even before HoT).

Now, why would portal be less valuable for chrono bunker?
Well its simple, if you know a mesmer can’t run back to its point very fast, then the moment you see it leaving home, you can plan to rush over there, and force the port back home/prevent capping for a bit. You can actually have one of your bunkers rotate to their home node if the mesmer chooses to walk back and give up the cap (Something he’s very unlikely to do), and then you as a roamer rotate appropriately from there.

Ofc, that’s all moot if chrono bunker swaps rune of durability for travelers.

What do they lose without rune of durability?
Some toughness, and protection + resistance up time. Which frankly, any hit to that on a bunker should be welcome at this point.

So, you either:
1. Make the chrono bunker slower, making it harder for it to rotate as freely as it does currently.
2. Make the chrono bunker a little bit squishier, making it a little bit easier for it to be killed.

If I were to suggest any other nerf, it would be to remove the protection on regen. But I’d like to see where chrono bunker lands after a small nerf like I suggested.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So, you either:
1. Make the chrono bunker slower, making it harder for it to rotate as freely as it does currently.
2. Make the chrono bunker a little bit squishier, making it a little bit easier for it to be killed.

If I were to suggest any other nerf, it would be to remove the protection on regen. But I’d like to see where chrono bunker lands after a small nerf like I suggested.

I still don’t understand why you think that Mesmer have the huge impact of movement speed. Why not just come back to 900 range blink and 300 range trait into a duel?
And why in your opinion only bunker Mesmer need heavily nerf?
The easy way to make this meta multi class – make conquest free for all in the 2000 AOE range.
And disable conquest area holds. So if there is more ppl from one team will be on point – this team will cap or Decap point. This will completely change whole game and meta from bunker to fighter without unnecessary creating more issues.

I do not even know why people think DS tempest is full immune to condition.

I play tempest too and I have no problem killing other eles in 1v1. Even in a mirror match.

If the ele is super good i can still get him down to 50%.

most people hate DS tempest because half of them are running a condi overload setup and try to apply all their condi burst in 3 seconds flat to every target, then get mad when they blow all their cooldowns because they didnt use their brains and tried it on the ele. the DS trait has been like this for quite a while just people weren’t running condi focused builds until the June patch, now its condi’s for you, for me and for all some more condi, oh would you like another condition?

ActionRadius.3792:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So, you either:
1. Make the chrono bunker slower, making it harder for it to rotate as freely as it does currently.
2. Make the chrono bunker a little bit squishier, making it a little bit easier for it to be killed.

If I were to suggest any other nerf, it would be to remove the protection on regen. But I’d like to see where chrono bunker lands after a small nerf like I suggested.

I still don’t understand why you think that Mesmer have the huge impact of movement speed. Why not just come back to 900 range blink and 300 range trait into a duel?
And why in your opinion only bunker Mesmer need heavily nerf?
The easy way to make this meta multi class – make conquest free for all in the 2000 AOE range.
And disable conquest area holds. So if there is more ppl from one team will be on point – this team will cap or Decap point. This will completely change whole game and meta from bunker to fighter without unnecessary creating more issues.

I main Chrono Shatter (PU Shatter pre-HoT), and have played bunker mesmer post nerf extensively enough to get a decent grasp at what it does in SoloQ.

I can’t speak for bunker mesmer at a competition level, as I am not a competition level player.

Nor can I really speak for eles, necros, guards, rangers, warriors, or revenants.

I primarily play Engie, Mesmer, and Thief. And I feel I have at least a decent grasp of what it’s like to play as, and against each.

However, my thoughts on how to deal with each are different from most people.

Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.

So I would like to see the impact of movement speed changes, that benefits base mesmer, and only really impacts bunker mesmer.

Chrono Shatter, taking power creep out of the picture, is actually in position where it could compete in this meta. Were it not for what, in my opinion, is a superior roaming bunker build that does most everything that Chrono Shatter is intended to do.

From there, I think thief actually becomes viable again, as the anti-mesmer class.
The extra dodges give thief a pretty good chance against Chrono Shatter, as the CC well isn’t as likely to hit someone with that many dodges… Nor are you likely to escape as a Chrono Shatter without PU.

PU was one of the better things about Mesmer against thief. You actually had the potential to reset the fight thanks to it and mass invis.

This, in my opinion, makes Chaos a little more competitive with the Chronomancer trait line.

As well, the return of a burst damage class like mesmer could shake things up with Marauder Scrapper.
Who has lower toughness against a burst of damage vs what he would have for long term damage.

This doesn’t “fix” everything, by any means.
But I think small iterative tweaks (Not plain nerfs), would leave the game in a better spot over the course of a couple of months.

Unfortunately, ANet has chosen the “lets do one big kitten patch at the end of a season” route.
Which I’m not sure if I agree with.

Balance is an iterative process. As you nerf 1 thing, it’s possible for another to become noticeably stronger.
If you’re only doing 1 patch per season, then it’s easy for a class to be left unplayable for an entire season, while another class is broken because it no longer has the answer to it anymore.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.

…

There is no logic here.

ActionRadius.3792:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.

…

There is no logic here.

…
I’m convinced you haven’t actually played as mesmer.

Considering whats on your list:
“got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Conditions? Had multiple ways, for a long time. Inspiration trait line isn’t new. Nor is null field. And your heal well isn’t that strong. From some experience, you usually end up having to pop precog with it, else every one just AOEs on top of it.

Damage?
True.
Protection up time in particular is pretty nasty. I know, everyone complains about distotion & precog, but honestly, those are double edged swords.
Protection on regen (Phantasms give regen, so does dropping to 25% health) as well as on the staff 4 & 5 + 2 (combo field for chaos armor) is a bit much.
Add durability runes in there and… yay!!! More uptime!

Strong zoning?
True. I’d just like to add THAT IT RUNS AROUND THE MAP AT THE SPEED OF A ROAMER, WITH THAT ZONING POTENTIAL.

CC Potential?
True.

Now lets look at what I said.
“Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.”

Nothing in that is wrong.

Yes, mesmer has a lot of regens, and a lot of protection uptime. As well as some condi clear, and a small group heal (that comes with some condi clear, if you can actually sit in the well).

Ele has:
1. MASSIVE group heal
2. Long lasting, group wide protection
3. Condi clear on its shout.
4. Group reflects.
5. Decent damage on air overload.
6. Invulnerability to conditions at 90%+ health
7. Group CC
8. Group condi clear
9. Need I even mention how powerful water fields are in this game?

The heals alone, makes ele stronger than chrono bunker, in my honest opinion.

Which isn’t to say chrono bunker is weak, but you wouldn’t take a chrono bunker on your team over a bunker tempest. Hell, you’re more likely to run 2 tempest, 2 rev, 1 chrono.

Hit its mobility, chrono stays a strong bunker, but doesn’t get to do some of the plays that it can currently do.

As an example, I decapped ele points a lot because the ele left his point, and couldn’t make it back quick enough.

I can’t do that to chrono bunker… And it’s not just portal…

Are people REALLY suggesting to take away the 25% movement speed trait from the Chronomancer traitline? Are you kidding me?

Mesmer was always the only profession (well; depending on build, Guardians were in a similar position outside of PvP) who had to use traveler runes or some other rune for movement speed in most of the builds. Now that Chronomancer fixed that, you want to take it away from some builds again. Not every Chronomancer who isn’t a bunker takes Domination. Besides, the trait thematically fits into the Chrono-traitline really well. Wouldn’t make much sense in another traitline.

Also, Bunker Chrono only has three utility slots, just like every other Mesmer build. Thus, they already have limited mobility compared to other Mesmer/Chrono-builds.

So, bunker Chrono is faster than Tempests. So what? Tempests can bunker better and actually are still able to deal considerable amounts of damage (and that in AoE) compared to Chronos. So if you take away the movement speed trait, you should also increase the sustain of bunker Chrono, give them some reliable and hard-hitting AoE-damage, and then rename the class to iTempest (Illusionary Tempest).

Saturn.6591:

Are people REALLY suggesting to take away the 25% movement speed trait from the Chronomancer traitline? Are you kidding me?

Mesmer was always the only profession (well; depending on build, Guardians were in a similar position outside of PvP) who had to use traveler runes or some other rune for movement speed in most of the builds. Now that Chronomancer fixed that, you want to take it away from some builds again. Not every Chronomancer who isn’t a bunker takes Domination. Besides, the trait thematically fits into the Chrono-traitline really well. Wouldn’t make much sense in another traitline.

Also, Bunker Chrono only has three utility slots, just like every other Mesmer build. Thus, they already have limited mobility compared to other Mesmer/Chrono-builds.

So, bunker Chrono is faster than Tempests. So what? Tempests can bunker better and actually are still able to deal considerable amounts of damage (and that in AoE) compared to Chronos. So if you take away the movement speed trait, you should also increase the sustain of bunker Chrono, give them some reliable and hard-hitting AoE-damage, and then rename the class to iTempest (Illusionary Tempest).

Blink & Portal. Which utility for movement are they sacrificing again? Because I have literally never seen a decent mesmer NOT take portal & blink.

That’s bunker or otherwise.

Chrono Condi mesmers are already pretty crap, with regular Condition Mesmer out classing it.

So, which build would this impact, other than bunker mesmer?

No no, please do tell.

Oh.. that’s right.
We’ve only got 3 some what viable builds…

And btw, kitten the RP argument. Although it makes perfect sense in “domination”, as how the hell do you dominate someone if they run away faster than you can run?

Also, a little tidbit.
I’d also like to see tempest nerfed. But I’m no where near as knowledgeable on what could/should be tweaked on it.
So I kept my conversation restricted to what I think are fair changes to mesmer.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Blink & Portal. Which utility for movement are they sacrificing again? Because I have literally never seen a decent mesmer NOT take portal & blink.

That’s bunker or otherwise.

I’ve yet to see a bunker Mesmer who takes both of those. Heck; some take none of those. Just look around the Mesmer subforum for example. And no, they are not all noobs.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chrono Condi mesmers are already pretty crap, with regular Condition Mesmer out classing it.

Condi isn’t the best choice for Mesmer/Chrono in high MMR matches; that’s right. But how exactly is regular condi-Mesmer outclassing condi-Chrono?

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So, which build would this impact, other than bunker mesmer?

Every build that doesn’t take Domination. And yeah, that’s probably only condi-Chrono and condi-Mesmer. But since they already are that bad and unviable in high-lvl play… why nerf them even more by making them slower? Not to mention that PvP isn’t the only gamemode.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And btw, kitten the RP argument. Although it makes perfect sense in “domination”, as how the hell do you dominate someone if they run away faster than you can run?

Lol; that’s just moo-poo. Domination is about dealing damage and preventing them from running away/doing stuff. And not about chasing them or running away yourself. If anything, it would make more sense (if you were to move the trait) in Dueling, due to being swift in combat or something. But ya; obviously you’d also need to rename the trait then. And make up a trait to replace it in the Chrono-traitline. One that fits Chronomancer.

Saturn.6591:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Blink & Portal. Which utility for movement are they sacrificing again? Because I have literally never seen a decent mesmer NOT take portal & blink.

That’s bunker or otherwise.

I’ve yet to see a bunker Mesmer who takes both of those. Heck; some take none of those. Just look around the Mesmer subforum for example. And no, they are not all noobs.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chrono Condi mesmers are already pretty crap, with regular Condition Mesmer out classing it.

Condi isn’t the best choice for Mesmer/Chrono in high MMR matches; that’s right. But how exactly is regular condi-Mesmer outclassing condi-Chrono?

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So, which build would this impact, other than bunker mesmer?

Every build that doesn’t take Domination. And yeah, that’s probably only condi-Chrono and condi-Mesmer. But since they already are that bad and unviable in high-lvl play… why nerf them even more by making them slower? Not to mention that PvP isn’t the only gamemode.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And btw, kitten the RP argument. Although it makes perfect sense in “domination”, as how the hell do you dominate someone if they run away faster than you can run?

Lol; that’s just moo-poo. Domination is about dealing damage and preventing them from running away/doing stuff. And not about chasing them or running away yourself. If anything, it would make more sense (if you were to move the trait) in Dueling, due to being swift in combat or something. But ya; obviously you’d also need to rename the trait then. And make up a trait to replace it in the Chrono-traitline. One that fits Chronomancer.

sigh
“I’ve yet to see a bunker Mesmer who takes both of those. Heck; some take none of those. Just look around the Mesmer subforum for example. And no, they are not all noobs.”
I looked. Not sure what you’re expecting me to find?
I stalk that forum a lot as is.
If you were expecting me to see a decent bunker mesmers not running blink and portal. Sorry, didn’t see it.

“Condi isn’t the best choice for Mesmer/Chrono in high MMR matches; that’s right. But how exactly is regular condi-Mesmer outclassing condi-Chrono?”

This is answered easily by “How does chrono benefit condition mesmer?”
Other than alacrity and the traits that summon a clone on 2 shattering, or chronophantasm, it really doesn’t.

Now, lets ask which trait line we would even swap for Chrono on condi mesmer.

Chaos? PU is still really strong for resetting fights.
Dueling? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA you’re not swapping this, who the kitten are you kidding?
Illusions? This is where a large part of your confusion & torment comes from. You’re not swapping this on a condi build.

So, the only thing you would swap for Chrono, is chaos.

BUT WAIT!
If you’re going to swap chaos, what does Inspiration bring to you?
1. Heals (Yay!)
2. Condi cleanse (YAY!)
3. Another phantasm when you block or evade (YAY!) (Or more protection up time from Illusionary Inspiration)
4. Medics feedback (YAY!)

Sorry babe, Chrono Condi doesn’t seem like a good trade off (to me).

“Every build that doesn’t take Domination. And yeah, that’s probably only condi-Chrono and condi-Mesmer. But since they already are that bad and unviable in high-lvl play… why nerf them even more by making them slower? Not to mention that PvP isn’t the only gamemode.”
Condi-Mesmer is left unaffected by the change, they don’t take chrono either, duh. Only condi-chrono, which is already a bottom tier build.

And since we’re on the topic of other game modes.
WvW is left unaffected, because there’s ONLY 2 BUILDS THAT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING IN WvW. PU Shatter & Chrono Shatter.
If you’re running anything else, then you’re in a zerg and it doesn’t matter what you play.
The 2 I mentioned are parts of the small organized 15-20 man center of a zerg blob. The guys that do GvG in their guild halls.

And before you say “But they could be running another one!”.
No, they couldn’t.

Chrono ONLY brings gravity well to the table. Which would be out classed by a venom share thief in the necro party. Unblockable CC wells? Hell YES! PLEASE!

“Domination is about dealing damage and preventing them from running away/doing stuff”
Thank you for proving my point.
What better way to prevent someone from running away, than sticking to them like glue?

That was how I killed people back in the day as a thief. Sat right on top of them with a billion gap closers until they were dead.

It just makes sense.

Saturn.6591:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Blink & Portal. Which utility for movement are they sacrificing again? Because I have literally never seen a decent mesmer NOT take portal & blink.

That’s bunker or otherwise.

I’ve yet to see a bunker Mesmer who takes both of those. Heck; some take none of those. Just look around the Mesmer subforum for example. And no, they are not all noobs.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chrono Condi mesmers are already pretty crap, with regular Condition Mesmer out classing it.

Condi isn’t the best choice for Mesmer/Chrono in high MMR matches; that’s right. But how exactly is regular condi-Mesmer outclassing condi-Chrono?

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So, which build would this impact, other than bunker mesmer?

Every build that doesn’t take Domination. And yeah, that’s probably only condi-Chrono and condi-Mesmer. But since they already are that bad and unviable in high-lvl play… why nerf them even more by making them slower? Not to mention that PvP isn’t the only gamemode.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And btw, kitten the RP argument. Although it makes perfect sense in “domination”, as how the hell do you dominate someone if they run away faster than you can run?

Lol; that’s just moo-poo. Domination is about dealing damage and preventing them from running away/doing stuff. And not about chasing them or running away yourself. If anything, it would make more sense (if you were to move the trait) in Dueling, due to being swift in combat or something. But ya; obviously you’d also need to rename the trait then. And make up a trait to replace it in the Chrono-traitline. One that fits Chronomancer.

You have yet to see a mesmer take portal or blink? LOL. How can a mesmer bunker nowadays? sword 2 and what shield block?

Here is the problem: Most of you guys flock to meta battle to band wagon on meta builds.

If you are still playing 3 wells after Precog Nerf, It is such a shame.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

sigh
“I’ve yet to see a bunker Mesmer who takes both of those. Heck; some take none of those. Just look around the Mesmer subforum for example. And no, they are not all noobs.”
I looked. Not sure what you’re expecting me to find?
I stalk that forum a lot as is.
If you were expecting me to see a decent bunker mesmers not running blink and portal. Sorry, didn’t see it.

Okay; so that means everyone who posts and/or talks about builds in that forum is a bad player.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Condi isn’t the best choice for Mesmer/Chrono in high MMR matches; that’s right. But how exactly is regular condi-Mesmer outclassing condi-Chrono?”

This is answered easily by “How does chrono benefit condition mesmer?”
Other than alacrity and the traits that summon a clone on 2 shattering, or chronophantasm, it really doesn’t.

LOL! You’ve answered your own question. Also, you can add shield to that list. And the F5-shatter. And of course, the movement speed. By your logic, Chrono would benefit no Mesmer-build whatsoever.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Now, lets ask which trait line we would even swap for Chrono on condi mesmer.

Chaos? PU is still really strong for resetting fights.
Dueling? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA you’re not swapping this, who the kitten are you kidding?
Illusions? This is where a large part of your confusion & torment comes from. You’re not swapping this on a condi build.

You do not need Chaos at all in a condi-build. PU always was garbage in PvP. Since why the heck would you want to camp stealth? Because it’s fun to have your points decapped? Even before Chrono, I would run Bountiful Disillusionment instead.
Dueling? With Chronomancer, you do not need Deceptive Evasion. So why would Dueling be mandatory?
Illusions? Well yeah, Illusions has to stay, obviously.

FYI; every single condi-build I’ve seen used and/or posted in the Mesmer forums (since HoT) uses either Inspiration/Illusion/Chrono, or Dueling/Illusion/Chrono (this variant trades sustain for blind on shatter and one additional stack of confusion in combination with Ineptitude).

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Every build that doesn’t take Domination. And yeah, that’s probably only condi-Chrono and condi-Mesmer. But since they already are that bad and unviable in high-lvl play… why nerf them even more by making them slower? Not to mention that PvP isn’t the only gamemode.”
Condi-Mesmer is left unaffected by the change, they don’t take chrono either, duh. Only condi-chrono, which is already a bottom tier build.

Yes they do. Chrono is actually a buff to condi-Mesmer. Still not enough to make it REALLY viable, but at least a bit better.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And since we’re on the topic of other game modes.
WvW is left unaffected, because there’s ONLY 2 BUILDS THAT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING IN WvW. PU Shatter & Chrono Shatter.
If you’re running anything else, then you’re in a zerg and it doesn’t matter what you play.
The 2 I mentioned are parts of the small organized 15-20 man center of a zerg blob. The guys that do GvG in their guild halls.

And before you say “But they could be running another one!”.
No, they couldn’t.

Chrono ONLY brings gravity well to the table. Which would be out classed by a venom share thief in the necro party. Unblockable CC wells? Hell YES! PLEASE!

You’ve never heard about roaming; right? Also, condi-Mesmer/Chrono is used for soloing dungeons and fractals.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Domination is about dealing damage and preventing them from running away/doing stuff”
Thank you for proving my point.
What better way to prevent someone from running away, than sticking to them like glue?

That was how I killed people back in the day as a thief. Sat right on top of them with a billion gap closers until they were dead.

It just makes sense.

No it doesn’t. The Domination traitline is about damage, and about stuns and interrupts. It’s not about making yourself more mobile, but about making your opponent LESS mobile. And if you want to talk about Thief… Deadly Arts brings stuff like damage, poison and immobilize. The swiftness on dodge as well as other mobility-traits are in other traitlines (Acrobatics, Trickery and Daredevil). Also, you can use gap-closers regardless of your traits. On Thief as well as on Mesmer. Heck; if you want to use MORE gap-closers, you’d maybe want to trait into Trickery on Thief (for more Initiative and lower Steal-cooldown), or Chaos on Mesmer (shorter cooldown on Blink). Not Deadly Arts or Domination; as they have nothing to do with your own mobility whatsoever.

StickerHappy.8052:

You have yet to see a mesmer take portal or blink? LOL.

That’s not even close to what I’ve said. You should re-read it.

StickerHappy.8052:

How can a mesmer bunker nowadays? sword 2 and what shield block?

So you are saying bunker Chrono is dead? Okay. But not really relevant to the topic. Also, if you look around the PvP-forum, people still complain about bunker Chrono.

StickerHappy.8052:

Here is the problem: Most of you guys flock to meta battle to band wagon on meta builds.

If you are still playing 3 wells after Precog Nerf, It is such a shame.

…the bunker Chrono build on metabattle actually doesn’t use 3 wells. That being said; I only check metabattle to get an idea of what others might be running, and to maybe get some inspiration for my own builds.

Saturn.6591:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

sigh
“I’ve yet to see a bunker Mesmer who takes both of those. Heck; some take none of those. Just look around the Mesmer subforum for example. And no, they are not all noobs.”
I looked. Not sure what you’re expecting me to find?
I stalk that forum a lot as is.
If you were expecting me to see a decent bunker mesmers not running blink and portal. Sorry, didn’t see it.

Okay; so that means everyone who posts and/or talks about builds in that forum is a bad player.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Condi isn’t the best choice for Mesmer/Chrono in high MMR matches; that’s right. But how exactly is regular condi-Mesmer outclassing condi-Chrono?”

This is answered easily by “How does chrono benefit condition mesmer?”
Other than alacrity and the traits that summon a clone on 2 shattering, or chronophantasm, it really doesn’t.

LOL! You’ve answered your own question. Also, you can add shield to that list. And the F5-shatter. And of course, the movement speed. By your logic, Chrono would benefit no Mesmer-build whatsoever.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Now, lets ask which trait line we would even swap for Chrono on condi mesmer.

Chaos? PU is still really strong for resetting fights.
Dueling? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA you’re not swapping this, who the kitten are you kidding?
Illusions? This is where a large part of your confusion & torment comes from. You’re not swapping this on a condi build.

You do not need Chaos at all in a condi-build. PU always was garbage in PvP. Since why the heck would you want to camp stealth? Because it’s fun to have your points decapped? Even before Chrono, I would run Bountiful Disillusionment instead.
Dueling? With Chronomancer, you do not need Deceptive Evasion. So why would Dueling be mandatory?
Illusions? Well yeah, Illusions has to stay, obviously.

FYI; every single condi-build I’ve seen used and/or posted in the Mesmer forums (since HoT) uses either Inspiration/Illusion/Chrono, or Dueling/Illusion/Chrono (this variant trades sustain for blind on shatter and one additional stack of confusion in combination with Ineptitude).

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Every build that doesn’t take Domination. And yeah, that’s probably only condi-Chrono and condi-Mesmer. But since they already are that bad and unviable in high-lvl play… why nerf them even more by making them slower? Not to mention that PvP isn’t the only gamemode.”
Condi-Mesmer is left unaffected by the change, they don’t take chrono either, duh. Only condi-chrono, which is already a bottom tier build.

Yes they do. Chrono is actually a buff to condi-Mesmer. Still not enough to make it REALLY viable, but at least a bit better.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And since we’re on the topic of other game modes.
WvW is left unaffected, because there’s ONLY 2 BUILDS THAT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING IN WvW. PU Shatter & Chrono Shatter.
If you’re running anything else, then you’re in a zerg and it doesn’t matter what you play.
The 2 I mentioned are parts of the small organized 15-20 man center of a zerg blob. The guys that do GvG in their guild halls.

And before you say “But they could be running another one!”.
No, they couldn’t.

Chrono ONLY brings gravity well to the table. Which would be out classed by a venom share thief in the necro party. Unblockable CC wells? Hell YES! PLEASE!

You’ve never heard about roaming; right? Also, condi-Mesmer/Chrono is used for soloing dungeons and fractals.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Domination is about dealing damage and preventing them from running away/doing stuff”
Thank you for proving my point.
What better way to prevent someone from running away, than sticking to them like glue?

That was how I killed people back in the day as a thief. Sat right on top of them with a billion gap closers until they were dead.

It just makes sense.

No it doesn’t. The Domination traitline is about damage, and about stuns and interrupts. It’s not about making yourself more mobile, but about making your opponent LESS mobile. And if you want to talk about Thief… Deadly Arts brings stuff like damage, poison and immobilize. The swiftness on dodge as well as other mobility-traits are in other traitlines (Acrobatics, Trickery and Daredevil). Also, you can use gap-closers regardless of your traits. On Thief as well as on Mesmer. Heck; if you want to use MORE gap-closers, you’d maybe want to trait into Trickery on Thief (for more Initiative and lower Steal-cooldown), or Chaos on Mesmer (shorter cooldown on Blink). Not Deadly Arts or Domination; as they have nothing to do with your own mobility whatsoever.

StickerHappy.8052:

You have yet to see a mesmer take portal or blink? LOL.

That’s not even close to what I’ve said. You should re-read it.

StickerHappy.8052:

How can a mesmer bunker nowadays? sword 2 and what shield block?

So you are saying bunker Chrono is dead? Okay. But not really relevant to the topic. Also, if you look around the PvP-forum, people still complain about bunker Chrono.

StickerHappy.8052:

Here is the problem: Most of you guys flock to meta battle to band wagon on meta builds.

If you are still playing 3 wells after Precog Nerf, It is such a shame.

…the bunker Chrono build on metabattle actually doesn’t use 3 wells. That being said; I only check metabattle to get an idea of what others might be running, and to maybe get some inspiration for my own builds.

Wow.
My mind is blown with how lacking your knowledge of mesmer is.

I’m just not going to respond anymore, because everything I’ve got to say, has already been said. And your cognitive dissonance, your need to be right and for me to be wrong on this issue, has blinded you.

SOOOO MUCH, that you think the first part of my post about not seeing it, was about the players being bad.
(Hint: No, it was about them pretty much always taking blink & portal)

@TheOneWhoSighs; FYI Sticker is a top Mesmer player. Claiming he lacks knowledge makes you look a bit silly.

This person consistently argues for nerfs to Mesmer. So his credibility with respect to the class is questionable as are many of the stats he quotes to “prove” his case.

Mesmer got an emergency nerf. There aren’t many complaining who aren’t known to attack the class .

Thief needs some defense very badly. I had a (very) small amount of success playing as a Venom Share build. I won’t touch Daredevil.

DH is kinda a one trick pony imo. I’ve been playing it to see why I got hammered by them. Now I get it, DH will be high on my priority target list.

Necro seems super strong, especially the minion builds.

Warrior can survive a DH burst almost intact. No huge issue there that I can see. Admittedly I don’t play Warrior much.

Druid.. I just don’t get.

Rev.. same.

Ele seems tough still, though I’m not seeing as many as before.

Ithilwen.1529:

@TheOneWhoSighs; FYI Sticker is a top Mesmer player. Claiming he lacks knowledge makes you look a bit silly.

This person consistently argues for nerfs to Mesmer. So his credibility with respect to the class is questionable as are many of the stats he quotes to “prove” his case.

Mesmer got an emergency nerf. There aren’t many complaining who aren’t known to attack the class .

Thief needs some defense very badly. I had a (very) small amount of success playing as a Venom Share build. I won’t touch Daredevil.

DH is kinda a one trick pony imo. I’ve been playing it to see why I got hammered by them. Now I get it, DH will be high on my priority target list.

Necro seems super strong, especially the minion builds.

Warrior can survive a DH burst almost intact. No huge issue there that I can see. Admittedly I don’t play Warrior much.

Druid.. I just don’t get.

Rev.. same.

Ele seems tough still, though I’m not seeing as many as before.

Good thing I didn’t say that to sticker then

You are true to form at least. You replied to a long dialogue, the last three entries of which were in conversation with StickerHappy.

You were clearly engaged with StickerHappy and at the very least included him in your statement, “Wow. My mind is blown with how lacking your knowledge of mesmer is.”

How did you not claim a top Mesmer player lacked knowledge about the class again?

I stand by the rest of what I said. You consistently attack Mesmer. As a result, your credibility suffers. Your posts often contain hyperbole and incorrect information. Readers would be well advised to check your posts carefully.

Ithilwen.1529:

You are true to form at least. You replied to a long dialogue, the last three entries of which were in conversation with StickerHappy.

You were clearly engaged with StickerHappy and at the very least included him in your statement, “Wow. My mind is blown with how lacking your knowledge of mesmer is.”

How did you not claim a top Mesmer player lacked knowledge about the class again?

I stand by the rest of what I said. You consistently attack Mesmer. As a result, your credibility suffers. Your posts often contain hyperbole and incorrect information. Readers would be well advised to check your posts carefully.

I have been arguing with Saturn for the past 3 posts.

The only thing I did, was hit quote on saturn’s post. And then replied to him.

I mean, holy kitten bro.
There’s reading comprehension, and then there’s whatever you’re doing.

And btw, I haven’t been consistently arguing for mesmer nerfs.
Outside of Well of Precog, this is the first post that I was like “Well if I were to nerf something on Chrono Bunker, what would I change without harming other builds?”

My answer was shifting the movement speed minor to domination.
Which literally only leaves Chrono Bunker, and the occasional why the hell would you run that Chrono Condi, effected in PvP.

PvE side, you’re going to run a revenant and have perma swiftness + might anyway.
WvW side, it’s actually a hard buff to PU Mesmer, the veil bot of the century.

More hyperbole and misinformation. PU Mesmer is long since heavily nerfed. Mesmer has already been heavily nerfed.. singled out for a big hit in fact. Yet here you are advocating more nerfs.

You did in fact call a top Mesmer player basically ignorant. Saturn’s post was a copy of your post. Claiming otherwise is an outright falsehood. This isn’t TV news … you can’t make a thing true by repeating it often and loudly.

My guess is that you have a grudge against Mesmer. Truthfully, I think you’re trolling deliberately.

Ithilwen.1529:

More hyperbole and misinformation. PU Mesmer is long since heavily nerfed. Mesmer has already been heavily nerfed.. singled out for a big hit in fact. Yet here you are advocating more nerfs.

You did in fact call a top Mesmer player basically ignorant. Saturn’s post was a copy of your post. Claiming otherwise is an outright falsehood. This isn’t TV news … you can’t make a thing true by repeating it often and loudly.

My guess is that you have a grudge against Mesmer.

Wow.
I had forgot why I said I wasn’t going to respond to your trolling anymore. Now I remember why.

Another tv news technique, accuse the other of what you are actually doing. Make true statements. Don’t advocate for arbitrary nerfs on my class.

If you can post accurate information, without hyperbole, then you will have no issues with me at all.

Ithilwen.1529:

Another tv news technique, accuse the other of what you are actually doing. Make true statements. Don’t advocate for arbitrary nerfs on my class.

If you can post accurate information, without hyperbole, then you will have no issues with me at all.

What was hyperbole again?
Buffing PU Mesmers in WvW by giving them movement speed?
My tweak only affecting Bunker Chrono and Condi Chrono. The latter of which isn’t good anyway.

Or, was responding TO SATURN, supposed to some how be a response to Sticker?

And yeah, saturn’s post was TOTALLY copying mine.
He TOTALLY didn’t contradict me at all with his statements.

I’m sure he’ll enjoy you stating that he agrees with me.

Or are you stating he didn’t quote Sticker? Despite the fact that you can scroll up, and see that he did?

Here’s a nickle kid, get a better pair of eyes.

Ithilwen.1529:

Another tv news technique, accuse the other of what you are actually doing. Make true statements. Don’t advocate for arbitrary nerfs on my class.

If you can post accurate information, without hyperbole, then you will have no issues with me at all.

I play revenant and druid and admit they’re overtuned. Diamond skin isn’t nearly as OP as its reputation though, but within the context of an overtuned meta overall I’m not sure if that’s saying much.

As the top tier meta has evolved since the hotfix, Tempests are still being phased out, in favor of Chronomancers. Double, Triple Chronomancers will trend on NA.

Tempests are considerably easier to focus in coordinated environments, so much so that the overloads are easily negated and it goes down faster than anything in the current meta.

The hyperbole was in claiming that PU Mesmer is “The ultimate Veil bot” with the implication that it is some high powered thing. PU was long ago nerfed at the behest of people like you.

The conversation Saturn posted was primarily between you and Sticker. So yes, you did call a senior Mesmer essentially ignorant.

As to your insults.. sticks and stones my dear.

Ithilwen.1529:

The hyperbole was in claiming that PU Mesmer is “The ultimate Veil bot” with the implication that it is some high powered thing. PU was long ago nerfed at the behest of people like you.

The conversation Saturn posted was primarily between you and Sticker. So yes, you did call a senior Mesmer essentially ignorant.

As to your insults.. sticks and stones my dear.

I HAVEN’T RESPONDED TO STICKER THIS ENTIRE THREAD

The caps isn’t because I’m mad, it’s because I need you to actually read it.

If I could make it 100 point font to help you out, I would. But sadly I can’t. Or if I can, I’m unaware as to how to do it.

“The hyperbole was in claiming that PU Mesmer is “The ultimate Veil bot” with the implication that it is some high powered thing."
That?
You’re kittening about THAT?

It’s THE ONLY VEIL BOT.

Your only other option in WvW is blasting thieves smoke, which isn’t easy in a Zerg v Zerg (too many bodies, not enough blasts), but is more than enough in 15 man GvG.

And do you think veil bot was supposed to be a compliment to the build?
Because it isn’t.

It veils, and then it goes back to being a normal member of the gank.
I actually prefer running Chrono Shatter, and having a thief provide smoke fields for everyone else.
GW is good for ganking 1 target, but it’s not enough to make Chrono fit into any other role in GvG.

Which is the crux of my argument for the effects of my change in WvW.

Chrono Shatter in WvW would be left alone, and PU Mesmer would have a slight buff, benefiting from the movement speed.
And there’s literally no other viable build in WvW. Not at the moment anyway, as roaming is dead.

I’m sorry that my joke there confused you.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Wow.
My mind is blown with how lacking your knowledge of mesmer is.

Yeah; clearly 2k+ hours on Mesmer over 3 years mean I have no idea about Mesmers.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I’m just not going to respond anymore, because everything I’ve got to say, has already been said. And your cognitive dissonance, your need to be right and for me to be wrong on this issue, has blinded you.

Your desire to get Mesmers nerfed even more has blinded you. You do not actually bring ANY arguments to back up your claims. You just keep repeating that you are right, I am wrong, and everyone who doesn’t agree is a bad player and has no clue.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SOOOO MUCH, that you think the first part of my post about not seeing it, was about the players being bad.
(Hint: No, it was about them pretty much always taking blink & portal)

Let’s see. You’ve said everyone who doesn’t take portal AND blink with bunker Chrono is a bad player. Everyone in the Mesmer subforum who posted a bunker Chrono build or talked about one, did not take or suggest to take Blink and Portal at the same time. Heck; some would take neither. Therefore, according to you, they must all be bad players with no clue about Mesmers, cause otherwise they would always take both of those utility skills.

Saturn.6591:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Wow.
My mind is blown with how lacking your knowledge of mesmer is.

Yeah; clearly 2k+ hours on Mesmer over 3 years mean I have no idea about Mesmers.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I’m just not going to respond anymore, because everything I’ve got to say, has already been said. And your cognitive dissonance, your need to be right and for me to be wrong on this issue, has blinded you.

Your desire to get Mesmers nerfed even more has blinded you. You do not actually bring ANY arguments to back up your claims. You just keep repeating that you are right, I am wrong, and everyone who doesn’t agree is a bad player and has no clue.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SOOOO MUCH, that you think the first part of my post about not seeing it, was about the players being bad.
(Hint: No, it was about them pretty much always taking blink & portal)

Let’s see. You’ve said everyone who doesn’t take portal AND blink with bunker Chrono is a bad player. Everyone in the Mesmer subforum who posted a bunker Chrono build or talked about one, did not take or suggest to take Blink and Portal at the same time. Heck; some would take neither. Therefore, according to you, they must all be bad players with no clue about Mesmers, cause otherwise they would always take both of those utility skills.

‘YOU DON’T BRING ANY ARGUMENTS TO THE TABLE"
Yeah, except all those arguments that I brought to the table.

You’re free to disagree with them.
But denying their existence?
Pfft.

My argument, in case you didn’t read through them for the fifth time.
Is that Chrono Bunker has the same movement that a Chono Shatter user has.

Making it as fast as a roaming build… Without trading anything for it… Other than, what you argue, is a utility slot or 2.

This effectively makes Chrono Bunker a perfect shutdown for roaming classes, that otherwise might have gotten decaps or uneven fights, after forcing the portal.

But yeah, no argument.

As for the bunker builds without blink and portal, I don’t see them post nerf.
So again, who the kitten are you referencing? JUST GIVE ME A LINK TO A DECENT PLAYER DOING WHAT YOU SUGGEST PLEASE

The only time I can think where you wouldn’t take both blink and portal, is when you’d swap 1 of them (probably portal) for null field.
To deal with necro condi.

There are functional builds that use portal, blink, both blink and portal. The bunker Chronos in pro league, I’ve never seen take both blink and portal (EU takes blink, NA, portal).

Chaith.8256:

There are functional builds that use portal, blink, both blink and portal. The bunker Chronos in pro league, I’ve never seen take both blink and portal (EU takes blink, NA, portal).

I agree pre-nerf, you wouldn’t take both.
Have you guys had time to scrim post nerf, given all the holidays and what not?
Given that I’m not a pro-player, I’m curious what you guys would consistently take over both of those now. Is precog still strong, despite it potentially costing cap ticks?

Well of Calamity or Action over Precognition, Calamity being favored usually.

Why not just use what syncs with your personal style best instead of copying everything from the pros? Yeah the pros obviously know what they’re doing and their builds are a good template but sometimes you’ll want to modify their builds to suit how you play and what you value.

Agemnon.4608:

Why not just use what syncs with your personal style best instead of copying everything from the pros? Yeah the pros obviously know what they’re doing and their builds are a good template but sometimes you’ll want to modify their builds to suit how you play and what you value.

Why not just use what syncs with your personal style best instead of copying everything from the pros?
I’ve been arguing this entire time for portal & blink.
I’ve kind of been doing that?

Was asking out of curiosity.
Admittedly though, I am going to give it a try in a couple of YoloQs.

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not even know why people think DS tempest is full immune to condition.

I play tempest too and I have no problem killing other eles in 1v1. Even in a mirror match.

If the ele is super good i can still get him down to 50%.

I can usually 1v1 any tempest and win with s/d daredevil, so I don’t think ele is nearly as strong as people make it out to be, but the problem is that if you lack a very high rate of boonstrip the ele can essentially ignore you. Tempests’ biggest issue is it’s protection uptime, other than this I find tempest to be fine. Diamond Skin’s threshold is pretty balancing.

the only profession I can say needs a bunch of nerfs is scrapper. hammer hits way too hard, sneak gyro is absolutely crazy and needs to be made killable (otherwise it’s a mobile, much longer lasting, castable-while-stunned Shadow Refuge with a free
aoe reveal with no balancing mechanic), protection access needs to be nerfed, and so does HGH (the last “nerf” literally made no difference).

Sneak Gyro is already killable

Chaith.8256:

Sneak Gyro is already killable

That’s a good source of counterplay but final salvgo gives superspeed and a lightning field upon its destruction (so your logical actions, not play on the engineer’s part, procs these benefits).

Agemnon.4608:

Chaith.8256:

Sneak Gyro is already killable

That’s a good source of counterplay but final salvgo gives superspeed and a lightning field upon its destruction (so your logical actions, not play on the engineer’s part, procs these benefits).

Yes indeed, fortunately that trait has zero business in PvP. Because there’s an even more passive and overall stronger option.

Chaith.8256:

Sneak Gyro is already killable

Gyro could lose a percentage of health as fuel runs low.
Gyro could lose more fuel while it moves.
When Gyro is destroyed, the people stealthed by the machine could be revealed; after all, the only reason they were invisible was the machine.

Chaith.8256:

Sneak Gyro is already killable

it’s only killable in a teamfight environment. focusing on the gyro long enough to actually kill it is completely unviable in a 1v1 because this gives the scrapper a ridiculously big window to attack/recover, thanks to the Gyro being healable, capable of receiving boons, and just having too much vitality/toughness (one or the other). there is no reason why Supply Crate be handled in a 1v1 yet Sneak Gyro can’t when it’s already head over shoulders better than Crate in every regard.

it’s the exact same problem as druid’s pets, they’re balanced around being killable yet their survivability means going completely out of your way to do so, requiring far too much investment to then go on and successfully engage the druid who traits for sustain so that they’re already a tough fight with or without the pet. there simply is not enough reward for the risk and effort involved in killing the pet to warrant it yet this is what these pets (and druid itself to a degree) are balanced around. it’s the exact same thing with Sneak Gyro, except Scrapper is all the more self-reliant.