Hi all, just one of my last all-is-vain effort to make PvP more fun.
Overwatch allows the players to swap char after death to react to the new situations. It creates a very fun and engaging games. Got killed by a Junkrat? Switch to Pharaoh. See their Ana sniping from afar? Switch to Dva to push.
In gw2, you picked a rev, run in, and suddenly see the entire enemy team are heavy condi. You can just hang up the mouse there. The fate of the match is mostly determined even before the first fight.
Now if you allow people to switch build (not switch character), it will allow for a much better match. Killed by condi? Bring more condi cleansing. Your condi necro got countered? Swap to a hybrid or power necro to catch them off guard!
Bonus points: implement build template so people can switch builds quickly after death.
P.S: like this? Read the link in my signature for more suggestions
I actually think it’s a great idea. This would allow some surprise use of utilities/traits/gear that are normally seen as completely useless. Honestly if this were implemented, the meta would no longer be so easily defined. This is kind of diversity we need in Guild Wars 2 spvp.
Adding save/load build template would be essential though. Without it, it would just be too tedious to swap traits/utilities/gear and take too much time in a match.
You can see the classes before the game starts, part of the strategy is to know what they are likely to be running and prepare for that. If you see classes that typically run condi builds then change your build before the match starts to counter that
You can see the classes before the game starts, part of the strategy is to know what they are likely to be running and prepare for that. If you see classes that typically run condi builds then change your build before the match starts to counter that
You see the opponents have 5 necro, so you swap in your Ele, put on heavy condi cleansing, Magi amulet, and ready to win!
It turns out they have 4 power necro + 1 condi necro and kill your no-toughness Ele in a few hits whenever you show up to the teamfight or 1v1 or 2v2.
You have lost the game before even the first fight. If you’re lucky and they are 5 condi necros, you won even before the first fight. This suggestion brings the fun and build diversity back to PvP.
I’m sorry, but who is seeing power necros in ranked pvp?
Gosh, it’s just an example. Just replace it with the example you like. The point is, gw2 PvP is full of hard counters like that. For example, Ele reflect can counter a power ranger/DH very well. It’s bad to have the fate of the match predetermined before even the first fight. Let people change their builds after they are dead.
Gw2 pvp has it’s issues, but personally I think the ability to swap class and tinker with build pre-game is good enough. TBH having played Overwatch, I’m not a fan of changing champs on death. Seems to encourage alot of jack o’ all trades kinda players. I’d much rather play with someone who knows there class and mechanics inside out.
My toons: Loki Thunderstruck, Loki Livewire,Loki Spellbound, Loki Meanstreak
Gw2 pvp has it’s issues, but personally I think the ability to swap class and tinker with build pre-game is good enough. TBH having played Overwatch, I’m not a fan of changing champs on death. Seems to encourage alot of jack o’ all trades kinda players. I’d much rather play with someone who knows there class and mechanics inside out.
Why is it a bad thing that a player can play multiple classes?
Also, I don’t even advocate for people to be able to change their class. I’m only asking for them to be able to change the build. If you’d rather play with someone who knows their class inside out, this is exactly the thing you ask for: a teammate who knows their class well enough to change their build/playstyle and adapt to new situations.
I’m sorry, but who is seeing power necros in ranked pvp?
power nec is luv
power nec is lyfe
I’m sorry you had an Ele on your team. You could have won that game.
Aww don’t be like that. Having a pocket Ele isn’t far from pocket Engi from a Necro’s perspective. The ressing capability is worse but the active healing and support is better. If you never go down, tough very unlikely, I’d say it’s better to have an Ele at your side as a Nec.
Gw2 pvp has it’s issues, but personally I think the ability to swap class and tinker with build pre-game is good enough. TBH having played Overwatch, I’m not a fan of changing champs on death. Seems to encourage alot of jack o’ all trades kinda players. I’d much rather play with someone who knows there class and mechanics inside out.
Why is it a bad thing that a player can play multiple classes?
Also, I don’t even advocate for people to be able to change their class. I’m only asking for them to be able to change the build. If you’d rather play with someone who knows their class inside out, this is exactly the thing you ask for: a teammate who knows their class well enough to change their build/playstyle and adapt to new situations.
I never said it was a bad thing. Frankly I think it’s important to be able to play more than one class, which is I why I rotate on three in pvp. The more you play and the different classes the better you understand the game, in GW2.
My comments of jack o’ all trades relates to playing in OW. Seen it games, dudes dropping like flys, changing champ every death trying to get an easy OP champ they can make do with.
My toons: Loki Thunderstruck, Loki Livewire,Loki Spellbound, Loki Meanstreak
Hi all, just one of my last all-is-vain effort to make PvP more fun.
Overwatch allows the players to swap char after death to react to the new situations. It creates a very fun and engaging games. Got killed by a Junkrat? Switch to Pharaoh. See their Ana sniping from afar? Switch to Dva to push.
In gw2, you picked a rev, run in, and suddenly see the entire enemy team are heavy condi. You can just hang up the mouse there. The fate of the match is mostly determined even before the first fight.
Now if you allow people to switch build (not switch character), it will allow for a much better match. Killed by condi? Bring more condi cleansing. Your condi necro got countered? Swap to a hybrid or power necro to catch them off guard!
Bonus points: implement build template so people can switch builds quickly after death.
P.S: like this? Read the link in my signature for more suggestions
This ideal would be a huge step forward for ANet in the sPvP department. I think this would start to get GW2 back on the competitive path again. This why so many other sPvP games allow for players to change and switch builds mid match to allow for such counter-play. If ANet allowed this I think they would be able start sweet talking some competitive players from other competitive games into giving GW2’s Ranked system a try.
I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys
This is actually a really good suggestion!
So you could change your build only in the spawning area just like in HotM. After you leave it then everything locks. (of course build templates would be really good for this)
It wouldn’t change too much in competitive matches because everyone runs the same build there so they know everything about the enemy, but in ranked there are people who actually tries to use other stuff (power warrior instead of condi for example) so you could adapt to that after you died.
Now we just need at least 1 viable (i would say meta) condi, power and support/tank build for each class so you could play with this feature and would be hard to predict what the enemy team uses.
Well i am not a fan of changing annything after match start and also i would fix the class to what you got into Q.
Build templates to load during preparation would be great.
If you want to swap your build mid game play hotjoin. Being able to swap your build in a serious match would kill the flow of the game so much. Full condi team? your team swaps to counter condi, wins the map, the enemy team swaps to power dmg, wins the map, etc etc etc. Its boring, cheesy, unbalanced and makes most rotations meaningless. Tbh it scares me a bit that theres so many ppl thinking this would be a good implementation. The game is not designed this way, this would totally destroy sPvP.
*GW2 used to allowed to change everything OUT OF COMBAT -NOT EVEN IN DEATH , from launch till the end of 2013’’
‘’Top players (TP) , told the Devs to limit it so we can see some ’’balanced team comps’’ =meaning to not counter their spec so easily’’
*GW2 used to allowed to change everything OUT OF COMBAT -NOT EVEN IN DEATH , from launch till the end of 2013’’
‘’Top players (TP) , told the Devs to limit it so we can see some ’’balanced team comps’’ =meaning to not counter their spec so easily’’
I actually brought this topic up about a year ago, and again top players complained that this would make the match “build wars,” which it kind of would.
However, there is a HUGE difference between modifying your build anywhere on-the-fly, and modifying your build after death. They could even make a little area you could run without dying (thus giving up map positioning) to swap.
However, none of this would really be all-that-necessary if they hadn’t power-creeped the ever-living crap out of professions such that everything is truly rock-paper-scissors. Hard-counters really make the game less engaging, but spec-swapping would open up some new possibilities to increase interest.
“Hey team, good job we got 2 points and their whole team is on respawn! Now everyone swap to magi/paladin bunker, type ‘GG’ in map chat and just wait for the game to be over!”
“Wait why did our elementalist swap to a 1v1 build? No man we already have this point, that one guy who died 3 seconds before you did counter-specced first and won the point and now you’ll be useless until your next death.”
Primordial, Exalted, Illustrious and Indomitable legend.
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
“Hey team, good job we got 2 points and their whole team is on respawn! Now everyone swap to magi/paladin bunker, type ‘GG’ in map chat and just wait for the game to be over!”
“Wait why did our elementalist swap to a 1v1 build? No man we already have this point, that one guy who died 3 seconds before you did counter-specced first and won the point and now you’ll be useless until your next death.”
That is a very-real risk, as good teams can stall out fights for quite a while. Even if some players got lost, they could stream back in with some bunker-builds and then stalemate it indefinitely. However, they run the risk of being impotent if they lose the caps. The risk is less if you are only allowed to swap on respawn.
The second point you make is part of strategy, and certainly does stink of build wars. Of course, it is a bigger problem with the rock-paper-scissors balance we have now.
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
“Hey team, good job we got 2 points and their whole team is on respawn! Now everyone swap to magi/paladin bunker, type ‘GG’ in map chat and just wait for the game to be over!”
“Wait why did our elementalist swap to a 1v1 build? No man we already have this point, that one guy who died 3 seconds before you did counter-specced first and won the point and now you’ll be useless until your next death.”
Thanks. Seems like ppl posting doesnt even play the game sometimes
If you want to swap your build mid game play hotjoin. Being able to swap your build in a serious match would kill the flow of the game so much. Full condi team? your team swaps to counter condi, wins the map, the enemy team swaps to power dmg, wins the map, etc etc etc. Its boring, cheesy, unbalanced and makes most rotations meaningless. Tbh it scares me a bit that theres so many ppl thinking this would be a good implementation. The game is not designed this way, this would totally destroy sPvP.
But then couldn’t the condi team swap to full power or what not? I can totally understand why such a ideal is not popular in the eyes of most GW2 sPvP players. These are the same players that said that solo queuer’s should either form a pre-made get farmed by pre-mades or just quit the game if still not happy.
This system would not go well with what’s left of the GW2’s sPvP players because, they are not here to compete they are playing this game because it is the easiest game to stomp uncoordinated players with little to no thinking about it. If you add in a layer of strategy by allowing and balancing mid game tweaks, now these players have to think a little more and there will be little of teams stomping other teams by default of build/team comp.
Dispite what most of these players say, one of the reasons why the other eSports games are much much much better then GW2’s Ranked sPvP is the fact they offer mid game counters so teams are not inherently stuck with a highly unfair match-up for the WHOLE match. More so sense the PvP team have no effect over class balance in their game mode. I say if the devs are unable to do it then allow the players to try and do it themselves. At current point very very little can be less competitive and fun then the system we have in GW2 sPvP atm.
I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys
If you want to swap your build mid game play hotjoin. Being able to swap your build in a serious match would kill the flow of the game so much. Full condi team? your team swaps to counter condi, wins the map, the enemy team swaps to power dmg, wins the map, etc etc etc. Its boring, cheesy, unbalanced and makes most rotations meaningless. Tbh it scares me a bit that theres so many ppl thinking this would be a good implementation. The game is not designed this way, this would totally destroy sPvP.
But then couldn’t the condi team swap to full power or what not? I can totally understand why such a ideal is not popular in the eyes of most GW2 sPvP players. These are the same players that said that solo queuer’s should either form a pre-made get farmed by pre-mades or just quit the game if still not happy.
This system would not go well with what’s left of the GW2’s sPvP players because, they are not here to compete they are playing this game because it is the easiest game to stomp uncoordinated players with little to no thinking about it. If you add in a layer of strategy by allowing and balancing mid game tweaks, now these players have to think a little more and there will be little of teams stomping other teams by default of build/team comp.
Dispite what most of these players say, one of the reasons why the other eSports games are much much much better then GW2’s Ranked sPvP is the fact they offer mid game counters so teams are not inherently stuck with a highly unfair match-up for the WHOLE match. More so sense the PvP team have no effect over class balance in their game mode. I say if the devs are unable to do it then allow the players to try and do it themselves. At current point very very little can be less competitive and fun then the system we have in GW2 sPvP atm.
How would this make this game more skilled/startegy based? All the contrary, it would be just how many times can you reroll to a high-mobility build that just hard-counters target X no matter the skill lvl, kill it, and then run from it when he rerolls to a build that counters you. It would actually kill the strategy the game has rotation wise, where you move to favorable match ups and avoid the other ones, and instead making it about how fast can you and your team adapt to what the enemy team is running in order to just counter it the cheesy way. Also, it would make it even harder for soloq players to face organized players, cause coordianted teams will swap to the needed comp more effectively, and win matchups by the simple fact that they run builds that counter enemy builds. How is this more skill based than what we have now?
The game right now promotes balanced builds that have a good shot against most things being played, rewarding favorable rotations and doing good in disfavored scenarios thanks to team play or personal skill level. What you propose will be a counter fest where ppl runs cheesy builds that suck but are good at leaving the respawn fast and killing one target by design, or bunkers holding the map when you have an advantge in nodes, with 0 skill attached to any of these situations. Do you rly want to see ppl stacking 3 min buffs at the start of the match, swaps to a full DPS comp, ganks 2 guys in the enemy team then swaps to a balanced comp with mesm portal, easily gains control of the map and swaps to full bunker/counter mode? Games would just be about exploiting this kind of flaws. Sry man, but gw2 is not designed/balanced to work this way, not at all.
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
I don’t think you’re addressing the points that matter: PvP is spiralling down hill [has been for a while…], so what change should be made? OP, at least, understands that change is necessary for PvP to get better and has made a suggestion instead of bashing on ideas on the ridiculous platform that “this change could make things worse”.
Of course it could make things worse! But, on the other hand, it can make things better. So maybe instead of just watching the game die slowly, we can attempt to branch out with new ideas which might very well help. It works for Overwatch, so maybe it’ll work for GW2. Maybe not, but hey, let’s not dismiss it offhandedly like an idiot, yeah?
If you want to swap your build mid game play hotjoin. Being able to swap your build in a serious match would kill the flow of the game so much. Full condi team? your team swaps to counter condi, wins the map, the enemy team swaps to power dmg, wins the map, etc etc etc. Its boring, cheesy, unbalanced and makes most rotations meaningless. Tbh it scares me a bit that theres so many ppl thinking this would be a good implementation. The game is not designed this way, this would totally destroy sPvP.
But then couldn’t the condi team swap to full power or what not? I can totally understand why such a ideal is not popular in the eyes of most GW2 sPvP players. These are the same players that said that solo queuer’s should either form a pre-made get farmed by pre-mades or just quit the game if still not happy.
This system would not go well with what’s left of the GW2’s sPvP players because, they are not here to compete they are playing this game because it is the easiest game to stomp uncoordinated players with little to no thinking about it. If you add in a layer of strategy by allowing and balancing mid game tweaks, now these players have to think a little more and there will be little of teams stomping other teams by default of build/team comp.
Dispite what most of these players say, one of the reasons why the other eSports games are much much much better then GW2’s Ranked sPvP is the fact they offer mid game counters so teams are not inherently stuck with a highly unfair match-up for the WHOLE match. More so sense the PvP team have no effect over class balance in their game mode. I say if the devs are unable to do it then allow the players to try and do it themselves. At current point very very little can be less competitive and fun then the system we have in GW2 sPvP atm.
How would this make this game more skilled/startegy based? All the contrary, it would be just how many times can you reroll to a high-mobility build that just hard-counters target X no matter the skill lvl, kill it, and then run from it when he rerolls to a build that counters you. It would actually kill the strategy the game has rotation wise, where you move to favorable match ups and avoid the other ones, and instead making it about how fast can you and your team adapt to what the enemy team is running in order to just counter it the cheesy way. Also, it would make it even harder for soloq players to face organized players, cause coordianted teams will swap to the needed comp more effectively, and win matchups by the simple fact that they run builds that counter enemy builds. How is this more skill based than what we have now?
The game right now promotes balanced builds that have a good shot against most things being played, rewarding favorable rotations and doing good in disfavored scenarios thanks to team play or personal skill level. What you propose will be a counter fest where ppl runs cheesy builds that suck but are good at leaving the respawn fast and killing one target by design, or bunkers holding the map when you have an advantge in nodes, with 0 skill attached to any of these situations. Do you rly want to see ppl stacking 3 min buffs at the start of the match, swaps to a full DPS comp, ganks 2 guys in the enemy team then swaps to a balanced comp with mesm portal, easily gains control of the map and swaps to full bunker/counter mode? Games would just be about exploiting this kind of flaws. Sry man, but gw2 is not designed/balanced to work this way, not at all.
The game right now isn’t in the best of situations, if you hadn’t noticed. Balancing, if done well, can go a long way. But since we’re not getting that, maybe we need to be a little more tolerant of changes which may make balance more lenient and increase the diversity of builds brought into games which serve more niche purposes.
Only way something like this would work is if there was a text in the middle of the players death screen that says,
“Revenent is weak against condi. We recommend to switch this one time.”
Why? Because even though it’s blatantly obvious that the War, Mesmer, and a Necro team composition are going to counter our Revs, people still don’t switch classes prior to match start.
Then you have the 1 hero players like myself. I’ve been playing Guard since launch and don’t care to learn another class. Unlike other games where classes are simplistic and easy to pick up, GW2 is not nearly as forgiving. So even if you have these in place there will still be a lot pf players not switching classes.
It’s why the game, like most MMORPG’s, are heavily reliant on matchmaking and class balances.
aka FalseLights Rank: Top 250 since Season 2 #5 best gerdien in wurld
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
I don’t think you’re addressing the points that matter: PvP is spiralling down hill [has been for a while…], so what change should be made? OP, at least, understands that change is necessary for PvP to get better and has made a suggestion instead of bashing on ideas on the ridiculous platform that “this change could make things worse”.
Of course it could make things worse! But, on the other hand, it can make things better. So maybe instead of just watching the game die slowly, we can attempt to branch out with new ideas which might very well help. It works for Overwatch, so maybe it’ll work for GW2. Maybe not, but hey, let’s not dismiss it offhandedly like an idiot, yeah?
I understand that PvP needs smth to get better, and thats why I hope Anet doesnt look at threats like this and instead keeps working on an overall better season system, continuous patch balances that make sure that there are the most possible balanced builds out there and keeps pushing for the competitive scene. Basically leaving gw2 pvp design as it is, which is completely fine, and instead focuses on making it more healthy and popular.
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
I don’t think you’re addressing the points that matter: PvP is spiralling down hill [has been for a while…], so what change should be made? OP, at least, understands that change is necessary for PvP to get better and has made a suggestion instead of bashing on ideas on the ridiculous platform that “this change could make things worse”.
Of course it could make things worse! But, on the other hand, it can make things better. So maybe instead of just watching the game die slowly, we can attempt to branch out with new ideas which might very well help. It works for Overwatch, so maybe it’ll work for GW2. Maybe not, but hey, let’s not dismiss it offhandedly like an idiot, yeah?
I understand that PvP needs smth to get better, and thats why I hope Anet doesnt look at threats like this and instead keeps working on an overall better season system, continuous patch balances that make sure that there are the most possible balanced builds out there and keeps pushing for the competitive scene. Basically leaving gw2 pvp design as it is, which is completely fine, and instead focuses on making it more healthy and popular.
With the PvP Dev unable to do direct class balances for the game mode. sPvP is and would be nothing more then premades as is today rolling the most OP team setups to get and hold a unfair advantage “all match long” this system that the OP is bringing up would give players the ability to counter such imbalances and allow the enemy to adapt and counter as well.
I honestly see this system bringing about a more competitive system in GW2 again with the sPvP Dev Team unable to do direct class balance to the game mode. Now if the sPvP Dev Team one day is granted access to balance classes in sPvP just for sPvP then yes we would not need OP’s system. However I don’t see the PvE class balance team giving up the reigns to the sPvP dev team for the sake of such a supremely smaller player base.
Again my ending statement to you, with all of the OP team comps in mind. What is so bad about a system that will allow players to adjust out of a highly unfavorable possibly sure lose situation by allowing them to be able to counter their enemies cheese comps? I think OP’s system would actually start forcing players to build balanced comps instead of what we have today with all these cheese face roll beyond difficult to play against comps with little ways to counter.
I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys
First of all, pretty much every profession has that one meta build that they are most likely running. If you don’t properly utilize your time before the match to adjust your build or swap professions, then the unfavorable match up that follows is on you.
Second, GW2 is not Overwatch. The people against this idea aren’t just saying they hate it for no reason, they are pointing out a very real possibility of players just constantly changing their build to hard-counter other builds, or swapping to bunker builds when they have points and damage builds when they don’t. This isn’t skill, this is being able to have the best build for any situation. In a game where hard-counters exist and with the way our build system is, the op’s proposed change would be unhealthy for the game.
Lastly, I’ve noticed that many of the people arguing in favor of this are going with the mentality of, “Well the game is already messed up, so we should make a potentially bad change to it just to see what happens.” That is a horrible mentality, some of us still care about the game and would like to see it get legitimately better.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
I don’t think you’re addressing the points that matter: PvP is spiralling down hill [has been for a while…], so what change should be made? OP, at least, understands that change is necessary for PvP to get better and has made a suggestion instead of bashing on ideas on the ridiculous platform that “this change could make things worse”.
Of course it could make things worse! But, on the other hand, it can make things better. So maybe instead of just watching the game die slowly, we can attempt to branch out with new ideas which might very well help. It works for Overwatch, so maybe it’ll work for GW2. Maybe not, but hey, let’s not dismiss it offhandedly like an idiot, yeah?
I understand that PvP needs smth to get better, and thats why I hope Anet doesnt look at threats like this and instead keeps working on an overall better season system, continuous patch balances that make sure that there are the most possible balanced builds out there and keeps pushing for the competitive scene. Basically leaving gw2 pvp design as it is, which is completely fine, and instead focuses on making it more healthy and popular.
With the PvP Dev unable to do direct class balances for the game mode. sPvP is and would be nothing more then premades as is today rolling the most OP team setups to get and hold a unfair advantage “all match long” this system that the OP is bringing up would give players the ability to counter such imbalances and allow the enemy to adapt and counter as well.
I honestly see this system bringing about a more competitive system in GW2 again with the sPvP Dev Team unable to do direct class balance to the game mode. Now if the sPvP Dev Team one day is granted access to balance classes in sPvP just for sPvP then yes we would not need OP’s system. However I don’t see the PvE class balance team giving up the reigns to the sPvP dev team for the sake of such a supremely smaller player base.
Again my ending statement to you, with all of the OP team comps in mind. What is so bad about a system that will allow players to adjust out of a highly unfavorable possibly sure lose situation by allowing them to be able to counter their enemies cheese comps? I think OP’s system would actually start forcing players to build balanced comps instead of what we have today with all these cheese face roll beyond difficult to play against comps with little ways to counter.
I’ve answered everything youre saying in a previous post, you can search it for further explanation, but tldr it would just promote cheesy comps based on countering by design with 0 skill nor proper rotations attached to it plus exploiting game flaws, and making it even harder for soloq to face teamq as they will lack the coordination to efficiently swap to the most optimal comp. What you guys propose wont bring anything more than cheese and frustration, you must be rly innocent to not see it.
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
I don’t think you’re addressing the points that matter: PvP is spiralling down hill [has been for a while…], so what change should be made? OP, at least, understands that change is necessary for PvP to get better and has made a suggestion instead of bashing on ideas on the ridiculous platform that “this change could make things worse”.
Of course it could make things worse! But, on the other hand, it can make things better. So maybe instead of just watching the game die slowly, we can attempt to branch out with new ideas which might very well help. It works for Overwatch, so maybe it’ll work for GW2. Maybe not, but hey, let’s not dismiss it offhandedly like an idiot, yeah?
I understand that PvP needs smth to get better, and thats why I hope Anet doesnt look at threats like this and instead keeps working on an overall better season system, continuous patch balances that make sure that there are the most possible balanced builds out there and keeps pushing for the competitive scene. Basically leaving gw2 pvp design as it is, which is completely fine, and instead focuses on making it more healthy and popular.
With the PvP Dev unable to do direct class balances for the game mode. sPvP is and would be nothing more then premades as is today rolling the most OP team setups to get and hold a unfair advantage “all match long” this system that the OP is bringing up would give players the ability to counter such imbalances and allow the enemy to adapt and counter as well.
I honestly see this system bringing about a more competitive system in GW2 again with the sPvP Dev Team unable to do direct class balance to the game mode. Now if the sPvP Dev Team one day is granted access to balance classes in sPvP just for sPvP then yes we would not need OP’s system. However I don’t see the PvE class balance team giving up the reigns to the sPvP dev team for the sake of such a supremely smaller player base.
Again my ending statement to you, with all of the OP team comps in mind. What is so bad about a system that will allow players to adjust out of a highly unfavorable possibly sure lose situation by allowing them to be able to counter their enemies cheese comps? I think OP’s system would actually start forcing players to build balanced comps instead of what we have today with all these cheese face roll beyond difficult to play against comps with little ways to counter.
I’ve answered everything youre saying in a previous post, you can search it for further explanation, but tldr it would just promote cheesy comps based on countering by design with 0 skill nor proper rotations attached to it plus exploiting game flaws, and making it even harder for soloq to face teamq as they will lack the coordination to efficiently swap to the most optimal comp. What you guys propose wont bring anything more than cheese and frustration, you must be rly innocent to not see it.
I honestly think you must be really “innocent” to not see the current system is worst is currently absolute cheese and frustration to the point sPvP has already bled out so many players that you see the same players match after match. I mean yes it’s not the perfect system. This system would allow the players some control over their matches rather then sitting there and taking it in the “insert word/s here”, just because if they switch classes mid match after seeing the enemy team’s comp is just pure cancer and is not in threat of being matched by your team get dishonored. At this point I really just see the OP’s system as the lessor of the two evils.
The correct and obvious answer is to allow the PvP Dev Team to make exclusive class balances in the game mode so players don’t run into such unfavorable team comp. match-ups or classes that are just completely unplayable for the full length of the season, btw is another topic all in it’s own right. However the PvP Dev Team have already told us them selves they have “No” control over balancing what so ever, the only thing they can do is add and remove amulets from the sPvP game mode. We all have seen in the past 4 Seasons how well that works. If the Dev team can not push balance then atleast give us players some option to try to push balance on our own.
I doubt we will get ANet’s blessings and sPvP will continue to bleed out players till there are only the “PAID” sPvP sponsored teams playing against each other in a kitten. But you care correct?
I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys
The only ignorant responses I see in here are the negative ones. That’s a good sign actually. Looks like most players who understand the game, agree this is a good idea. Not just a good idea, it’s also a fun idea.
To all the people predicing disaster from this change:
The reason why I waited for a while to post this is to make sure Overwatch achieves a successful status first. It’s a proof that this suggestion will improve the health of gw2 pvp. In Overwatch, you not only can change the class, you can even change it without dying too. No one complains on that. Even more, people loves it, and it has become one of the best features of a PvP oriented game.
Don’t be too conservative. PvP is dying, and we need to try a radical new deal to fix it. (Beside putting the balance team under the PvP team of course—under a few months after released, Overwatch has had more balance patch than gw2 had this year! With explanation and PTR too!)
OW uses it, so it must work. 10/10 sounds like gw2 forum logic. Well, Starcraft, which is totally related to gw2 and has a similar pvp design, doesnt allow you to swap mid game, so it wont work
I don’t think you’re addressing the points that matter: PvP is spiralling down hill [has been for a while…], so what change should be made? OP, at least, understands that change is necessary for PvP to get better and has made a suggestion instead of bashing on ideas on the ridiculous platform that “this change could make things worse”.
Of course it could make things worse! But, on the other hand, it can make things better. So maybe instead of just watching the game die slowly, we can attempt to branch out with new ideas which might very well help. It works for Overwatch, so maybe it’ll work for GW2. Maybe not, but hey, let’s not dismiss it offhandedly like an idiot, yeah?
I understand that PvP needs smth to get better, and thats why I hope Anet doesnt look at threats like this and instead keeps working on an overall better season system, continuous patch balances that make sure that there are the most possible balanced builds out there and keeps pushing for the competitive scene. Basically leaving gw2 pvp design as it is, which is completely fine, and instead focuses on making it more healthy and popular.
With the PvP Dev unable to do direct class balances for the game mode. sPvP is and would be nothing more then premades as is today rolling the most OP team setups to get and hold a unfair advantage “all match long” this system that the OP is bringing up would give players the ability to counter such imbalances and allow the enemy to adapt and counter as well.
I honestly see this system bringing about a more competitive system in GW2 again with the sPvP Dev Team unable to do direct class balance to the game mode. Now if the sPvP Dev Team one day is granted access to balance classes in sPvP just for sPvP then yes we would not need OP’s system. However I don’t see the PvE class balance team giving up the reigns to the sPvP dev team for the sake of such a supremely smaller player base.
Again my ending statement to you, with all of the OP team comps in mind. What is so bad about a system that will allow players to adjust out of a highly unfavorable possibly sure lose situation by allowing them to be able to counter their enemies cheese comps? I think OP’s system would actually start forcing players to build balanced comps instead of what we have today with all these cheese face roll beyond difficult to play against comps with little ways to counter.
I’ve answered everything youre saying in a previous post, you can search it for further explanation, but tldr it would just promote cheesy comps based on countering by design with 0 skill nor proper rotations attached to it plus exploiting game flaws, and making it even harder for soloq to face teamq as they will lack the coordination to efficiently swap to the most optimal comp. What you guys propose wont bring anything more than cheese and frustration, you must be rly innocent to not see it.
I honestly think you must be really “innocent” to not see the current system is worst is currently absolute cheese and frustration to the point sPvP has already bled out so many players that you see the same players match after match. I mean yes it’s not the perfect system. This system would allow the players some control over their matches rather then sitting there and taking it in the “insert word/s here”, just because if they switch classes mid match after seeing the enemy team’s comp is just pure cancer and is not in threat of being matched by your team get dishonored. At this point I really just see the OP’s system as the lessor of the two evils.
The correct and obvious answer is to allow the PvP Dev Team to make exclusive class balances in the game mode so players don’t run into such unfavorable team comp. match-ups or classes that are just completely unplayable for the full length of the season, btw is another topic all in it’s own right. However the PvP Dev Team have already told us them selves they have “No” control over balancing what so ever, the only thing they can do is add and remove amulets from the sPvP game mode. We all have seen in the past 4 Seasons how well that works. If the Dev team can not push balance then atleast give us players some option to try to push balance on our own.
I doubt we will get ANet’s blessings and sPvP will continue to bleed out players till there are only the “PAID” sPvP sponsored teams playing against each other in a kitten. But you care correct?
I guess you’re entitled to your own opinion. Thats nice I guess, Im also entitled to mine, I just like how the game is designed now, based on balanced comps, team play and proper rotations, not counter comps and exploiting the game flaws.
The only ignorant responses I see in here are the negative ones. That’s a good sign actually. Looks like most players who understand the game, agree this is a good idea. Not just a good idea, it’s also a fun idea.
Hear that devs? A fun idea.
Well, as long as I know the only players that are not blind and actually know how the game works and his possibilities disagree with this idea and find it unfun
Basically what it really come down to in the end is, players that are having a nice exploiting cheesey cancer comps with the opposing team no option to “adapt” to the current battlefield are just stomping and getting fairly easy wins. So of course they’ll like such a system, it the system that benifits them the most super causal and noncompetitive to the extreme the most.
So basically the lines have been drawn and their as a somewhat of a lobbing by both parties competitive and noncompetitive parties. ANet’s next move will be to choose who the cater to. Hopefully ANet don’t make the same mistakes it has in the past and try to cater to both parties leaving both parties highly unhappy, both the causal and the competitive parties.
ANet is just going to have to come to terms it’ll have to cater to one and leave the other one unhappy. If ANet does this then worst case situation, ANet will only lose one group of players instead of both of the groups. Right now the game mode needs a identity which is mostly what it’s lacking.
I mean honestly most of the “Non Paid Competitive Players” like myself have all but resigned from the horrors of sPvP in GW2, leaving Amber quality players to reach Legendary Division. So that being said I my eyes the system that people like Krysard would make the most sense to keep from a short term business prospective. This way since their are very little actually competitive sPvP players playing that are not getting paid to play, ANet would not focus on them but the casuals that don’t want a competitive match mode since they are way more numerous and very easy to please, and require little to no overhead to maintain. Rather then again keep bleeding both groups of players from sPvP.
I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys
Build templates needed to happen anyway, it’s one of the most commonly asked for feature in all game-modes, PvP, PvE, and WvW. This idea won’t work without a working build template feature in place. If you limit players to only switching via the pre-saved build templates during a match, then you can limit the amount of wasted time people spend at spawn. The game’s pace is too fast to allow players to just sit at spawn while slowly flipping through their specs & swapping utilities/runes/sigils.
No doubt pro players won’t like this, but I’d say vast majority of the PvP playerbase would enjoy this idea. While pro players roll out in perfectly balanced team compositions, min/maxed builds, and are all on the same page at the start of each games, this simply does not happen in ranked for majority of the players. Heck I think if they want to limit this build switching for ranked, they could simply disable this function for pro tournaments (like they have the no class stacking rule for pro tourney but not ranked play).
I have to agree this would be fun for a lot of people, and likely get more people to play PvP more regularly.
. You could have won that game.