Guild Wars 2

Lol. style doesn’t want to simply balance a class he wants to kill it.

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol. style doesn’t want to simply balance a class he wants to kill it.

and how is removing water field from the turret and buffing other heal skills killing a class?

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

Just had a 4v5 against a team of 2 turrets. Tell let me tell you how fricking fun that kitten was.

1.Don’t allow 2 of same turrets to be active at the same time
2.Don’t allow more than 3 turrets to be active at the same time.
3.Turrets should be destroyed when the player moves out of a radius of 1000 from
them.
4.All turrets should be destroyed upon player downed.
Just a few suggestions given that the turrets will retain their current stats and traits.

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

I get that you want to protect your class, but if you think engi isn’t the best class in PvP right now, we must be playing different game modes.

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

I get that you want to protect your class, but if you think engi isn’t the best class in PvP right now, we must be playing different game modes.

its 100% protection uptime that keeps turret engis alive so long — base 60% uptime from prot injection and base 40% uptime from thumpers boon. +30% boon duration, and potentially +60% from say… earth runes. as long as you use any cc on a turret engi, he will have perma protection, and if you arent ccing him, hes standing on point and surviving. thats a really freakin huge issue. not even dd ele has that much protection. nor guardians.

a turret engi cant make use of the water field except with jump shot or 20% projectile finishing. plus good combo use is high skill cap. you arent kittening about eles going into water and blasting like 5x to survive, which they can also do on a short cd just like healing turret.

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

I rather have Healing turret’s heal goes straight to the Cleansing Burst and then increase cd to 40 second to deploy healing turret.

I want healing turret to be a “Stand your ground.” healing skill. Every other healing skills should be mobile.

runeblade.7514:

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

I rather have Healing turret’s heal goes straight to the Cleansing Burst and then increase cd to 40 second to deploy healing turret.

I want healing turret to be a “Stand your ground.” healing skill. Every other healing skills should be mobile.

I tend to agree. Technically speaking, healing turret barely even functions as a turret, it’s just a multi-tap heal (and ironically takes 3 presses and still activates in half the time than most heals). Would be nice if the gadget/elixir heal was the better mobile heal.

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.

Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.

SobeSoul.6910:

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.

Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.

He didn’t say anything about blowing up the turret. He mentioned only using blast finishers such as grenades on the water field that comes out of the turret.
Try again.

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol. style doesn’t want to simply balance a class he wants to kill it.

Of course, it’s not their profession so they want it killed off. Most of the complaints on here are from players with little to no experience as an Engi. They get rolled by a better player on an Engi and instantly blame the profession and build. Since the alternative is a realization that bruises their ego.

btw, for the healing turret complaint, please learn math! Healing per second on an Engi is far lower that other professions.

Aenaos.8160:

1.Don’t allow 2 of same turrets to be active at the same time
2.Don’t allow more than 3 turrets to be active at the same time.
3.Turrets should be destroyed when the player moves out of a radius of 1000 from
them.
4.All turrets should be destroyed upon player downed.
Just a few suggestions given that the turrets will retain their current stats and traits.

That worked extremely well with spirits in GW1.

But then again, there’s PvE, and you can’t have people losing their turrets because someone else comes along with the same ones.

What you could do, though, is prevent their effects from stacking.

For example, by making all turrets attack at the same interval regardless of when they where spawned, and when two of their projectiles and AoEs overlap, someone hit already by one can’t be hit again.

This is a very effective form of autobalance. Instead creating different AoEs with an effect each, you create areas of the same AoE effect, and when they overlap, only the greatest effect applies, and their shared AoE would hit up to 10 enemies instead 5.

This way, someone between two enemy flame turrets hit by their overlapping cone AoEs would be hit by the biggest power, condition damage, and condition duration, but only once. So more turrets could hit a bigger area and more enemies, but they could not focus their damage in single enemies.

DeWolfe.2174:

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol. style doesn’t want to simply balance a class he wants to kill it.

Of course, it’s not their profession so they want it killed off. Most of the complaints on here are from players with little to no experience as an Engi. They get rolled by a better player on an Engi and instantly blame the profession and build. Since the alternative is a realization that bruises their ego.

btw, for the healing turret complaint, please learn math! Healing per second on an Engi is far lower that other professions.

Clearing up some misinformation really quickly

5500(pickup no finishers)-8500(leap and blast finishers) on either a 15 or 20 second cooldown.

The healing turret healing per second ranges from 367 – 425 healing per second, not including the tool belt.

Healing signet on warrior is 362-385ish per second

Withdraw on thief is 290 per second

Ether Feast on Mesmer is 275-375 per second

Troll Unguent on ranger is 340 healing per second

Shelter is 151 healing per second

Signet of restoration is 240ish per skill activation, it’s probably at least that per second too, likely higher.

Consume conditions removing 3 conditions is 300 health per second.

Direct comparisions between some of these healing skills is a b|t challenging to quantify due to various effects, but I think the math shows that engineers quite possibly have the best meta healing skill in terms of raw healing.

Turk.5460:

DeWolfe.2174:

…… Meanwhile, there is nothing AFK about a turret build, nothing! ………

• Engineer drops turrets apart on a capture point.
• I roll in alone to cap point.
• By the time I capture the point I am at less than 25% hp

I play a S/D thief, this is after 4 dodge rolls, 6-8 Flanking Strike evades, and 1 Withdraw. All while still actively trying to damage the turrets. But since I have to focus everything on evading them, and their HP is so insanely high for AI, I am lucky if I manage to kill just one by the time that point fully turns to my teams color.

This is all without the engineer even coming back to defend the point. I am alone with his turrets. Yeah, whining about protecting your broken build isn’t going to get you away from this highly deserved nerf-bat.

You are playing S/D, which relies on air and fire procs and you cannot crit turrets… Yeah, sure turrets are not fun to fight against, but if the engi really dropped his turret on the point, then you can cap the point and kill the turrets at the same time.

If you play something else than evadespam that is.

Turk.5460:

SobeSoul.6910:

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.

Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.

He didn’t say anything about blowing up the turret. He mentioned only using blast finishers such as grenades on the water field that comes out of the turret.
Try again.

If you are going to make an argument here, it would be more useful if you had knowledge on the subject matter. There is no blast finisher in the grenade kit in any form.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Aenaos.8160:

1.Don’t allow 2 of same turrets to be active at the same time
2.Don’t allow more than 3 turrets to be active at the same time.
3.Turrets should be destroyed when the player moves out of a radius of 1000 from
them.
4.All turrets should be destroyed upon player downed.
Just a few suggestions given that the turrets will retain their current stats and traits.

That worked extremely well with spirits in GW1.

But then again, there’s PvE, and you can’t have people losing their turrets because someone else comes along with the same ones.

What you could do, though, is prevent their effects from stacking.

For example, by making all turrets attack at the same interval regardless of when they where spawned, and when two of their projectiles and AoEs overlap, someone hit already by one can’t be hit again.

This is a very effective form of autobalance. Instead creating different AoEs with an effect each, you create areas of the same AoE effect, and when they overlap, only the greatest effect applies, and their shared AoE would hit up to 10 enemies instead 5.

This way, someone between two enemy flame turrets hit by their overlapping cone AoEs would be hit by the biggest power, condition damage, and condition duration, but only once. So more turrets could hit a bigger area and more enemies, but they could not focus their damage in single enemies.

I meant 1. and 2. as per Engi not per team.
What you describe would be nice but realistically I don’t ever see the game getting that complicated.
Also imagine the qq in the chat when two of the same class are on the roster and no player is volunteering to switch.

Saiyan.1704:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

@Royal

Cele Ele is being pushed out of the meta by medi guards

How do we push them out of the meta when Cele Ele are the ones who counter medi guards?

HAMMER Medi guards is a different story altogether.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

@Royal

Cele Ele is being pushed out of the meta by medi guards. Shoutbow is more op currently.

HOW!? Shoutbow just survives and supports, as a stand alone build its very easy to kite.

Turk.5460:

SobeSoul.6910:

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.

Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.

He didn’t say anything about blowing up the turret. He mentioned only using blast finishers such as grenades on the water field that comes out of the turret.
Try again.

10/10 made me fall out of my seat laughing +1

Agree with OP, but could be burn and chill the conditions to affect turrets.

Shockwave.1230:

DeWolfe.2174:

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol. style doesn’t want to simply balance a class he wants to kill it.

Of course, it’s not their profession so they want it killed off. Most of the complaints on here are from players with little to no experience as an Engi. They get rolled by a better player on an Engi and instantly blame the profession and build. Since the alternative is a realization that bruises their ego.

btw, for the healing turret complaint, please learn math! Healing per second on an Engi is far lower that other professions.

Clearing up some misinformation really quickly

5500(pickup no finishers)-8500(leap and blast finishers) on either a 15 or 20 second cooldown.

The healing turret healing per second ranges from 367 – 425 healing per second, not including the tool belt.

Healing signet on warrior is 362-385ish per second

Withdraw on thief is 290 per second

Ether Feast on Mesmer is 275-375 per second

Troll Unguent on ranger is 340 healing per second

Shelter is 151 healing per second

Signet of restoration is 240ish per skill activation, it’s probably at least that per second too, likely higher.

Consume conditions removing 3 conditions is 300 health per second.

Direct comparisions between some of these healing skills is a b|t challenging to quantify due to various effects, but I think the math shows that engineers quite possibly have the best meta healing skill in terms of raw healing.

Troll Ungent heals for 371.2 with Settler’s. Which does get taken by some condi rangers. That doesn’t include things like Oakheart Salve, and Rejuvenation. And if you want to truly compare the two…. Cele Rifle has 2.4k armor rounded up versus 3.1k armor on Rabid ranger rounded up.

If you want to truly quantify healing you do need to take into account survivability on top of it as well for two good reasons.

1) How much damage do you take in x-amount of time, and will you get full usage out of the heal?
2) How often do you need to heal?

A thread about turrets and objects taking burning (and other DoT) damage, cleverly derailed by Anet talking about a possible engi nerf.

Nicely distracted. It almost worked. Now how about making objects (and turrets) take DoT damage?

Turk.5460:

SobeSoul.6910:

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.

Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.

He didn’t say anything about blowing up the turret. He mentioned only using blast finishers such as grenades on the water field that comes out of the turret.
Try again.

Like I’ve said, people with no clue about engies….

Personally, I don’t use healing turret for the extra healing I get with detonating on the water field, I use it mainly because it’s a 2 condi cleanser with a (when picked up or left deployed) 15 second cooldown on a profession that does not have that many good condi cleansers.

I’m kinda interested in how Anet might balance Turrets (especially as the answers seems to not be “make them susceptible to conditions”) because in PvE, turrets are hated and despise for pretty much the exact opposite reason they are in PvP.

I have nothing against Turret engis, but i dont like it when lazy people play it just because its easy to use and strong.
It should be more difficult to play Turret Engineer.
Same goes for all the other Easy going Builds like Power Necro, Hambow, PU shatter or Pew Pew Ranger.
Skill should be rewarded with effectiveness.
Making it easy to play AND strong just lures inexperienced Players to use these Builds, just because they dont have to learn much about them.
I am a total Engineer Noob, my Main Class is Mesmer.
But when i play turret Engineer, i have literally no problems surviving.
With a bit of timing you can even toss ur targets around like u want it.
It shouldnt be that easy.
But it shouldnt be nerfed into inefficiency as well.
Let SKILL be the main source of good and strong builds, and not easy to use Builds, which dont need any practise to master them.

Anet should remember a nerf back then in Guild Wars 1, when the mm and the spirit Ritualist stacked their minions.
Anet nerfed the max number of casted minions in an area.
Maximum minion count was 10 per mm.
But as soon as another minion master comes into a certain range, both MM`s minions are reduced to an overall max number of 10.
Each mm had only 5 minions.
For Turret engis that would mean that its impossible to stack up more than ONE turret of the same kind.

Burning and Chill should also affect turrets.
As well as a small change to overriding them.
How about making them override only once?
Make the override a tad bit stronger, but only ONCE usable.
After triggering the override, the turret explodes after a period of time.

LeBub.9053:

Anet should remember a nerf back then in Guild Wars 1, when the mm and the spirit Ritualist stacked their minions.
Anet nerfed the max number of casted minions in an area.
Maximum minion count was 10 per mm.
But as soon as another minion master comes into a certain range, both MM`s minions are reduced to an overall max number of 10.
Each mm had only 5 minions.
For Turret engis that would mean that its impossible to stack up more than ONE turret of the same kind.

I think you should remind yourself of what GW1 did with minions. They never had a total party limit put on them. Minions were limited to an amount based on your Death Magic rank (FYI, 12 minions was easy to maintain without consumables). If you had two MM Necros, they could each hit their own individual cap, provided there were enough corpses to raise them in the first place. The corpse limitation meant it wasn’t practical to stack MM’s in the party, but a 4 man group could quite possibly have 48 minions with them.

Spirits, on the other hand, were limited to 1 per type within range.

Just checked wiki again and you are right, i was confusing it with the Spirit nerf.
But anyway, i hope u know what i mean by the reminder.
They should limit Minion/turret stacking.

The only particularly unique things ANet did with MMs in GW1 was minions going hostile on MM death, which could turn a full minion MM (if they somehow died to their own stupidity…) into a very real threat to their allies when dead, Verata’s Gaze/Aura, which were absolute troll spells that pretty hard-countered MMs who didn’t also run them, and the fact that Blood of the Master would apply to all nearby minions, meaning running a group with 30 minions turned one BotM use into a 65% HP sacrifice with 48 minions meaning instant death from 100% HP.

The institution of a minion cap (8 with just max DM investment, 10 with your general PvP builds, 12 in extreme cases) was done extremely early on in GW1, and didn’t massively affect MM usefulness. You still saw Discordway in PvE, you still saw multiple MMs very commonly in the larger scale PvP game modes.

Limitation of minion/turret builds is stupid, it is a band-aid to a larger problem. If the game mode is so badly designed that you can run that kind of team and win, then fix the game mode or deal with the builds directly.

Just going to leave this here… Show playing turret engi while actually tabbed out of the game and reading the forums.

eleshazar.6902:

Just going to leave this here… Show playing turret engi while actually tabbed out of the game and reading the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk3gcbL6fW0

While in Hotjoin or Unranked and only get’s one roaming thief to fight. This is a great example of nothing….

DeWolfe.2174:

eleshazar.6902:

Just going to leave this here… Show playing turret engi while actually tabbed out of the game and reading the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk3gcbL6fW0

While in Hotjoin or Unranked and only get’s one roaming thief to fight. This is a great example of nothing….

No one should beat even a terrible player while tabbed out of the game and only using one ability (elixir X). A player actually playing the game should ALWAYS beat an afk one. And the thief actually tried to use dagger storm to reflect and kill the turrets, so he at least made an attempt to play smart.

eleshazar.6902:

DeWolfe.2174:

eleshazar.6902:

Just going to leave this here… Show playing turret engi while actually tabbed out of the game and reading the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk3gcbL6fW0

While in Hotjoin or Unranked and only get’s one roaming thief to fight. This is a great example of nothing….

No one should beat even a terrible player while tabbed out of the game and only using one ability (elixir X). A player actually playing the game should ALWAYS beat an afk one. And the thief actually tried to use dagger storm to reflect and kill the turrets, so he at least made an attempt to play smart.

And judging by your comment history you have a habbit of trying to defend the brokeness of Engi turrets. And I have plenty of experience on Engi using zerk kit build as well as occasional condi kit build. So yes I do know how easy and broken turrets are.

insanemaniac.2456:

Turk.5460:

SobeSoul.6910:

style.6173:

SobeSoul.6910:

Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.

I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.

It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….

Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.

Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.

He didn’t say anything about blowing up the turret. He mentioned only using blast finishers such as grenades on the water field that comes out of the turret.
Try again.

10/10 made me fall out of my seat laughing +1

Thumper turret, or mines or whatever. Sue me.