Guild Wars 2

I think this ability is actually the true cause of all the QQ and crappy cookie cutter builds we have floating around currently.

Without Quickness, HB, HS, PW etc etc would not be an issue, they would just be solid strong skills that can be focused on in a build to maximize their damage.

Burst is already pretty ridiculously strong in this game atm, why ANet would want to give teams/players an ability to do it even faster seems like a bad move. I think removing Quickness, or at the very least nerfing the speed increase(maybe 33% instead of 50%?) would do way more for the current game than nerfing HB’s or HS etc directly.

Thoughts?

No you’re not the only one, I pretty much just made an “I quit” thread over Quickness and what it is doing to sPvP. Until it’s gone, I’m gone.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-is-already-one-big-cluster-veryuglykitten

Its pretty broken. The “indication” for someone having quickness is basically nonexistent, so there’s no realistic way to prepare yourself for the burst unless its preceded by a more obvious attack.

Also the tradeoff for some of the quickness skills is almost irrelevant (namely quickening zephyr). Not to mention the quickness traits or the sigil.

Yes pls remove it or give to every class!

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Yea, quickness is extremely strong, especially if it has no debuff or no strong debuff (Like the thief or range one). Also quickness as procc is completely dumb.

Arheundel.6451:

Yes pls remove it or give to every class!

Why would you want every class to have it? sPvP is bad enough as it is, if every class had Quickening it would be utter chaos, more so than it is now.

Dallas.2536:

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Please stop acting like you don’t die and get blown up by the random Warrior or Theif popping up from behind you because you were busy dealing with their teammates in a team based game and get destroyed in a few seconds because of quickness.

I don’t rage quit. I just know a bad mechanic when I see one. There’s always those people who come onto the forums and are like “oh it’s for noobs only etc etc” yet there is plenty of evidence to the contrary if you do any tourneys at all.

Burst will always be king in PvP. Frankly, I’m amazed that Mesmers aren’t packing the AoE quickness elite more than they do.

Quickness adds nothing of value to this game. All it does is take TTK down way too low to have any sort of enjoyable fighting experience. Yeah, you can dodge it in a 1v1, I’m not talking about a 1v1. I’m talking about team environments. Someone drops 1 CC and your stability is on CD? Dead.

Games should not be like that.

Dreadspectre.3456:

Dallas.2536:

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Please stop acting like you don’t die and get blown up by the random Warrior or Theif popping up from behind you because you were busy dealing with their teammates in a team based game and get destroyed in a few seconds because of quickness.

I don’t rage quit. I just know a bad mechanic when I see one. There’s always those people who come onto the forums and are like “oh it’s for noobs only etc etc” yet there is plenty of evidence to the contrary if you do any tourneys at all.

Burst will always be king in PvP. Frankly, I’m amazed that Mesmers aren’t packing the AoE quickness elite more than they do.

Quickness adds nothing of value to this game. All it does is take TTK down way too low to have any sort of enjoyable fighting experience. Yeah, you can dodge it in a 1v1, I’m not talking about a 1v1. I’m talking about team environments. Someone drops 1 CC and your stability is on CD? Dead.

Games should not be like that.

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

Dreadspectre.3456:

Dallas.2536:

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Please stop acting like you don’t die and get blown up by the random Warrior or Theif popping up from behind you because you were busy dealing with their teammates in a team based game and get destroyed in a few seconds because of quickness.

I don’t rage quit. I just know a bad mechanic when I see one. There’s always those people who come onto the forums and are like “oh it’s for noobs only etc etc” yet there is plenty of evidence to the contrary if you do any tourneys at all.

Burst will always be king in PvP. Frankly, I’m amazed that Mesmers aren’t packing the AoE quickness elite more than they do.

Quickness adds nothing of value to this game. All it does is take TTK down way too low to have any sort of enjoyable fighting experience. Yeah, you can dodge it in a 1v1, I’m not talking about a 1v1. I’m talking about team environments. Someone drops 1 CC and your stability is on CD? Dead.

Games should not be like that.

i really don’t very often. i didn’t say never. i play tourney 80% of the time. 8v8 maybe there is a greater chance someone will blindside you, but 8v8 is not what anet is balancing around.

other than quickness burst, what do you need your dodges and defensive cds for? not a very long list of things. i dont spam them the first time I get feared or start taking some hits, so I rarely take quickness bursts to their full extent and those builds inevitably end up being big burst/not much outside of that, so can be dealt with afterwards

Sweeet.8127:

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

generally speaking people like yourself who make statements along the lines of “X is OP and I’m quitting until they remove it” are the ones who are bad. just sayin. winners dont have attitudes like that

the first few times i ran into this my jaw hit the floor after seeing how fast i died.. however learning the classes that do it and when they normally do it its easy enough to dodge out of so i dont think this needs to be nerfed or changed at all, you take a few hits but once you have your distance they’ve already burnt it and are pretty much screwed

And then you learn to dodge

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

generally speaking people like yourself who make statements along the lines of “X is OP and I’m quitting until they remove it” are the ones who are bad. just sayin. winners dont have attitudes like that

No I just have more self-respect than most. Quickness is breaking PvP – I only play for the PvP, ergo I will not play until it is fixed. I’ve won the majority of my games on my Guardian, winning is not the issue. The issue is PvP is no longer fun or competitive to play for the most part because of people abusing a game mechanic that shouldn’t exist in the first place.

The people who would actually try and defend Quickness are the real bad players, not the ones advocating its removal. It breaks the game, end of, or can you actually come up with a solid argument on why it should stay? I bet you can’t.

Its pretty bursty. I don’t think it should be removed, but rather toned down slightly like reducing speed boost to 50-75% increase and extending its duration slightly to compensate.

I like quickness because without it some of the most bursty skills in the game become far less of an issue. Quickness causes those weapon skills to have longer cooldowns on there maximum effectiveness than the cooldown on there standard use.

This helps to add depth to the skill pool by putting in a strong “3-2-1 SPIKE!” skill without saying hundred blades needs a 60second CD. Which would be silly for a weapon skill.

It also allows for a lot of play in it’s use, you can burst with a variety of weapons in different ways whether you want to use Haste with Pistol Whip or Haste your Auto Attacks with Sword + Dagger.

I’ll sight the exception for Heartseeker, but that skill is just blatantly broken.

Gigawatt.5217:

I like quickness because without it some of the most bursty skills in the game become far less of an issue. Quickness causes those weapon skills to have longer cooldowns on there maximum effectiveness than the cooldown on there standard use.

This helps to add depth to the skill pool by putting in a strong “3-2-1 SPIKE!” skill without saying hundred blades needs a 60second CD. Which would be silly for a weapon skill.

It also allows for a lot of play in it’s use, you can burst with a variety of weapons in different ways whether you want to use Haste with Pistol Whip or Haste your Auto Attacks with Sword + Dagger.

I’ll sight the exception for Heartseeker, but that skill is just blatantly broken.

The issue is not that Quickness allows you to burst, it’s the amount it allows you to burst for given how well it scales with some abilities. How do you balance a game for competitive PvP when people can run around 1-shotting people in 1-2 seconds given the right setup? Not to mention it can turn a high survivability support build to also have very strong burst.

None of the above should be possible by a single profession in a competitive PvP environment, especially given that ANet want GW2 sPvP to become an e-sport… PvP will remain highly un-balanced until Quickness is gone, no amount of particle effects or indications of someone using Quickness will change that.

Dreadspectre.3456:

Dallas.2536:

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Please stop acting like you don’t die and get blown up by the random Warrior or Theif popping up from behind you because you were busy dealing with their teammates in a team based game and get destroyed in a few seconds because of quickness.

I don’t rage quit. I just know a bad mechanic when I see one. There’s always those people who come onto the forums and are like “oh it’s for noobs only etc etc” yet there is plenty of evidence to the contrary if you do any tourneys at all.

Burst will always be king in PvP. Frankly, I’m amazed that Mesmers aren’t packing the AoE quickness elite more than they do.

Quickness adds nothing of value to this game. All it does is take TTK down way too low to have any sort of enjoyable fighting experience. Yeah, you can dodge it in a 1v1, I’m not talking about a 1v1. I’m talking about team environments. Someone drops 1 CC and your stability is on CD? Dead.

Games should not be like that.

A thief popping up behind me? No problem, he’s knockbacked before I take more than 10% damage if I’m in the right attunement, otherwise I pop Mist Form and get some distance and proceed to burst him down. Those thieves are squishy. Warriors I’ll admit are slightly more of a problem if they swap to shield after their initial burst fails, but it can be dealt with, if they have any other secondary weapon they are just as easy to deal with as the thieves. The professions who use these playstyles are one trick ponies, catch them by surprise or avoid their burst and they’re (fairly) easy pickings.

If quickness was removed you’d find something else to complain about like ele burst or spirit weapon guardians or rangers with a whole host of pets (that one isn’t so much powerful as really, really annoying).

I don’t know why people come here and post their super awesome counters to these builds in ideal controlled 1v1 setups. You act like I haven’t already had to use my 2 rolls and my stability to stop something else. There are 4/7 other players to deal with at any given time.

Not everyone is running a build with CC weapons/utility either.

Dreadspectre.3456:

I don’t know why people come here and post their super awesome counters to these builds in ideal controlled 1v1 setups. You act like I haven’t already had to use my 2 rolls and my stability to stop something else. There are 4/7 other players to deal with at any given time.

Not everyone is running a build with CC weapons/utility either.

Do not worry…every game forum is full of these people who come and call other people noos…learn to dodge…learn to kite and similar stuff.

These people believe that there is a 1vs1 sPvP mode where you don’t need to face 7 more people or that when a 1vs1 fight occur the other players will sit on the sideline cheering for each side….

Dreadspectre.3456:

I don’t know why people come here and post their super awesome counters to these builds in ideal controlled 1v1 setups. You act like I haven’t already had to use my 2 rolls and my stability to stop something else. There are 4/7 other players to deal with at any given time.

Not everyone is running a build with CC weapons/utility either.

Because when it’s not 1v1 I have other teammates who can(should) help me. I know that doesn’t always happen in pug matches, but I also tend to be moving too much for a thief to be able to sneak up on me, and warriors rarely have their burst ready halfway into a fight so it’s not really something that happens often unless you are standing relatively still at the edge of the fight when new enemies arrive.

Quickness definately needs nerfed more than, imo, either Warriors or Thieves themselves. Since there are many sources of it (skills, orrian set, sigil, etc) and it is such a game changer, the best solution would be, it seems to me, to nerf the benefit of the buff to be half as effective as it is now – if even that much. 25% of the current benefit would be enough, I think.

I think people don’t understand quickness except how it destroyed them and now they need to QQ. I am a ranger, and one of my skills is Quickening Zephyr which gives quickness for 4s. That is not a long time, but it can be the difference in a fight for me.

The downside of quickness is that whoever is using it atm, cannot heal. Not through regen, healing skills, ally skills, no form of healing available, meaning Ranger signet (signet of earth) will not affect them during this time. During this time, they the most exposed and vulnerable a class can be.

However, if that sneak sneaks up and pops his skills and bursts you down, no, you can hardly counter it. The thing is, he set himself up and exploit your diversion and got a kill. But if you are a beefy DPS class yourself, in those 4 secs, that thief is technically easy prey.

Your problem: you got caught with your pants down.

That’s just stupid. Removing activated cooldowns to reduce burst damage is a terrible idea. All that does is make people stand around autoattacking each other to death, which is boring and the worst possible outcome for competitive PVP.

In RPG/MMO PvP, players should constantly be using cooldowns or “twitch” abilities to counter what their opponents are doing or to take advantage of mistakes. They should not be just sitting their whacking each other for half a minute just to break down the enemy’s health + heals.

Low TTK is perfectly fine, and I actually enjoy it a whole lot more than the long drawn out bore that was BWE1 (and Catacylsm on the WoW side of things).

I’m not sure if you’ve ever actually done high level competitive PVP in GW1 even. “3…2…1…spike” was everywhere in that game and I fully expect coordinated damage spikes to be how PvP in GW2 will sort itself out as well. It’s the same as WoW’s PVP as well (well, how it was when WoW had good PvP). That’s just how things work in good PVP games.

If you’re dying in 1-2 seconds then you’re doing something wrong and you need to learn how to avoid that burst. I’m not against balance changes (like Heartseeker) or reducing the base damage of other attacks, but the idea that we should be removing burst cooldowns from this game is absurd. We should be giving MORE classes access to that type of play actually.

Dreadspectre.3456:

I don’t know why people come here and post their super awesome counters to these builds in ideal controlled 1v1 setups. You act like I haven’t already had to use my 2 rolls and my stability to stop something else. There are 4/7 other players to deal with at any given time.

Not everyone is running a build with CC weapons/utility either.

Wait, so you think that you shouldn’t be dying 2+v1 when you’ve already used your defensive cooldowns?? Lolwut.

Because when it’s not 1v1 I have other teammates who can(should) help me. I know that doesn’t always happen in pug matches, but I also tend to be moving too much for a thief to be able to sneak up on me

Okay, you do know that let’s say you are fighting in a 2v2 in Windmill, you use your mistform, 2 dodges and suddenly the Thief who was standing at the Clocktower edge haste spams you down, because he just used Shadowstep and Infiltrator arrow to cross over to you in the time it takes you to swap elements? You can step down from the edge to the ramp towards the nodes with sstep and 1 arrow is already close enough to the point to butterfly-woomph-woomph on your back. And I didn’t even count Steal in yet.

Happy fun times! Please tell me in your regular play, you see that coming when you are already engaged in a fight. I beg you.

I would not be sad if I saw it removed. I like it’s applications other than being used for burst—fast finishers and res. It’s not a problem at all in PvE obviously. But it’s pretty fracking lame that I can be completely destroyed in 2-4 seconds because of it. Yeah you can use CDs, but those aren’t always up to save you and sometimes you just have to eat it.

Fantom.9217:

That’s just stupid. Removing activated cooldowns to reduce burst damage is a terrible idea. All that does is make people stand around autoattacking each other to death, which is boring and the worst possible outcome for competitive PVP.

In RPG/MMO PvP, players should constantly be using cooldowns or “twitch” abilities to counter what their opponents are doing or to take advantage of mistakes. They should not be just sitting their whacking each other for half a minute just to break down the enemy’s health + heals.

Low TTK is perfectly fine, and I actually enjoy it a whole lot more than the long drawn out bore that was BWE1 (and Catacylsm on the WoW side of things).

I’m not sure if you’ve ever actually done high level competitive PVP in GW1 even. “3…2…1…spike” was everywhere in that game and I fully expect coordinated damage spikes to be how PvP in GW2 will sort itself out as well. It’s the same as WoW’s PVP as well (well, how it was when WoW had good PvP). That’s just how things work in good PVP games.

If you’re dying in 1-2 seconds then you’re doing something wrong and you need to learn how to avoid that burst. I’m not against balance changes (like Heartseeker) or reducing the base damage of other attacks, but the idea that we should be removing burst cooldowns from this game is absurd. We should be giving MORE classes access to that type of play actually.

You make it sound like there is no burst outside of Quickness… Don’t be absurd. There are plenty of ways to burst a player down without having to rely on such a cheesy game mechanic. But you also just proved a point without even realising it – yes you could organise spike damage in GW1, but guess what? There was no Quickness in GW1! But the point you really proved, is that it still required a team effort in order to burst someone down, you would all use your burst skills to spike at the right time.

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes. Have someone apply pressure, force you to waste you defensive cooldowns and then BOOOM – head shot. And all it took was one person waiting for the right time to strike. And no I’m not talking about a 2v1….before you get antsy.

Its far too powerful left in its current state. NO PROFESSION should have that much burst potential, not in a competitive game, ever.

People can try and justify it all they like, its not going to change anything, Quickness will get toned down or removed whether you like it or not.

Sweeet.8127:

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

Or in my case , i take an utility that reduce damage taken to 0 damage for xxx secs
Counter an utility spell with an utility spell = meta game

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

Or in my case , i take an utility that reduce damage taken to 0 damage for xxx secs
Counter an utility spell with an utility spell = meta game

Sigil of Rage. Have fun spotting the random proc, followed by utility quickness if you managed to survive the proc.

Arheundel.6451:

Dreadspectre.3456:

I don’t know why people come here and post their super awesome counters to these builds in ideal controlled 1v1 setups. You act like I haven’t already had to use my 2 rolls and my stability to stop something else. There are 4/7 other players to deal with at any given time.

Not everyone is running a build with CC weapons/utility either.

Do not worry…every game forum is full of these people who come and call other people noos…learn to dodge…learn to kite and similar stuff.

These people believe that there is a 1vs1 sPvP mode where you don’t need to face 7 more people or that when a 1vs1 fight occur the other players will sit on the sideline cheering for each side….

If you face more then 7 people at the same time, where is your team to help you?
Its pretty easy to rally a teamate in teams with 4 members.
Its also pretty easy with 4 players to burst a key target of the other team

If unorganized team of hot join pvp make cookie cuter builds OP, that i can agree

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

Ouch,
Touche, QQ’ers will QQ

Even in gw1 they QQ’ed about how bad pvp was

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

I think removing these skills would be excellent. It is indeed the worst part about sPvP, and I agree removing it would reduce much of the complaints with certain classes.

In order for quickness to make pvp imbalanced one team or one profession or some subset of them would have to have an edge over all others due to quickness and you have presented no compelling evidence that guardians for instance, are a horrible profession because they lack quickness.

My position is that you have presented no such evidence because there is none; and that sPvP imbalance as a direct result of quickness simply does not presently exist.

Beating quickness
Is all about having sufficient defensive abilities to avoid damage for the duration of your opponent’s quickness, the problem more often than not is that someone got caught in a control effect and then bursted with quickness, not just quickness itself.

These control effects can be broken, blinked, cleansed, dodged, etc.
Or you could get a peel from one or more of your team mates, there is no way to hard counter quickness itself. But you can certainly avoid the damage by avoiding the accompanying control effects.

If no such effects are use, then you are free to dodge when you see it coming or throw up a shield block / blurred frenzy / shelter / endure pain / protect me, or any other form of damage prevention.

Aside from Time Warp and Heartseeker, damage avoidance in that tiny window of quickness generally isn’t that big of an issue.

And if I’m dying to it than I know I either misplayed or made a choice to not run the utilities I needed to survive that particular match up. Either way the burden is always on the player.

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

LoL so we can’t use our stun breakers to break stuns? That’s your answer? So we should all just never dodge or us any D abilities because oh no some one might use quickness. Sorry if that is what your saying than quickness is broken.

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

LoL so we can’t use our stun breakers to break stuns? That’s your answer? So we should all just never dodge or us any D abilities because oh no some one might use quickness. Sorry if that is what your saying than quickness is broken.

so you get feared off the bat in a fight and you use your stun breaker?

if you are going to take a stun breaker, and you’re going to use it indiscriminately, whats the point? there is a very short list of things that would require dodging or using utility skills for. learn to use skills when they should be used, and not as soon as you have the opportunity to use them, otherwise you end up making stupid threads like this

The main thing I’m seeing behind these complaints has to be that Quickness is OP because all of my other utilities are on CD. I’m not sure I’m seeing the defense behind this though. Quickness is OP because you don’t have a counter to it, because you either used it on something else OR you don’t have it in your build. I’m sorry but these are not reasons to remove it, these are reasons for you to experiment more and practice.

Ranged with Quickness is countered by Reflect skills/traits while Melee with Quickness is countered by damage immune/avoidance. Quickness lasts for VERY little time (not counting the Mesmer elite) and does have drawbacks. Warriors take 50% more damage, Rangers can’t be healed for 4 seconds after it’s used, etc.

There ARE counters to the “boon”. Just because yours are on CD or you refuse to use them is no defense. You think you should always be able to counter it even when you’ve used your CD’s? You think Quickness is the only thing that can’t be countered when you have no CD’s up? Under this logic I could say condition damage should be removed because Rangers don’t have very many condition removing skills and the ones we do have are under really long CD’s.

Want Quickness for yourself? Make friends with a Mesmer and ask them to run Time Warp instead of Moa. Time Warp rapes.

So why should this be removed again?

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

the only way to settle this is to look at how someone plays. i would bet the QQers are the ones who blow all their CDs the first time they get CC’d even if eating the CC wouldn’t hurt them much, and then they get destroyed by something else because they’re totally open.

they need to finish implementing tourney spectating so people can point this stuff out

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

So Quickness is the only ability I should be saving my stun breakers and dodges for is it? Wonderful! I guess you have it all figured out don’t you…

It’s called integrity, I pay’d for the game and I believe that at present Quickness is breaking sPvP, both casually and competitively. More so casually of course…. As such I now refuse to play until I deem sPvP is fixed, which means either Quickness needs to be toned down massively or it needs to be gone. Nothing “emo” about it, just standing my ground like the paying customer that I am. I have lots of games I can play, no-one is forcing me to play GW2 and I’m sure as hell not going to cry about it. I’ve been meaning to pick up where I left off in Assassins Creed Brotherhood for a while now. Time to move onto a game that isn’t broken in the hopes this one will be fixed.

Play your broken sPvP if it makes you happy, I would say I’m happy for you but I’d be lying.

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So if I read your paragraph correctly…

you are saying that the “pistol whip combo” is so powerful that everyone should SAVE a cooldown in order to avoid it. So powerful that if they are blowing cooldowns on things that AREN’T quickness related they are making a bad decision.

…Really?

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

the only way to settle this is to look at how someone plays. i would bet the QQers are the ones who blow all their CDs the first time they get CC’d even if eating the CC wouldn’t hurt them much, and then they get destroyed by something else because they’re totally open.

they need to finish implementing tourney spectating so people can point this stuff out

So what you are suggesting is that every defensive cd and stun breaker that ISN’T being saved in order to survive a quickness insta gib is being used incorrectly? There are plenty of other things in the game that need to be avoided. Sure let me just NOT dodge this blurred frenzy, just because that Warrior over there might decide to quickness bull rush insta gib me. Or let me just not pop a cd when I get combo’d by this double dagger Ele because there’s a thief over there who might decide to haste pistol whip me.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so