Guild Wars 2

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

So again if we are hit with hard CC. Stun, The expectation is that the other team is doing this for a reason. In other words they are going to hit you hard. Or they are setting up a combo. And yes there are only a few things to use those CD’s on. The problem is that your saying we should only use them for Quickness. That is broken.

Abilities that break CC should be used to break, well CC. If you can’t use those CC breakers just because they might us Quickness on you, that is broken.

How do you know when a CC will be followed by a quickness or not? Hint from us that have played the game. You can’t.

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

Well if we are going to go off your list. its Quickness. and that’s it.

Very short list.

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

I gave a couple examples in a previous post already, but what’s ‘worth’ dodging/cc breaking is largely dependent on what class you are, who you’re fighting, and what’s going on around you.

But since quickness is, in your eyes, the only thing worth dodging, I guess that means it really is too powerful since blowing cd’s anywhere else is a wasteful mistake.

I think that quickness gets a bad rap for what is ultimately a deeper issue with the PvP combat in the game.

Up until GW2 (at least generally speaking), attacks were “instant.” As soon as an attack ability was triggered, the target took its damage (in the case of instant casts) or began to take its damage (channeled casts). Instant casts were completely unavoidable. Channeled casts could be cut short by line of sighting mid-cast or mitigated by using a defensive ability. Therefore, it was important that no attack exceeded a certain reasonable percentage of opponents’ HP. Those attacks which could hit for 50% or more of the targets health were generally consistently nerfed to bring them more in line.

GW2 has introduced the evade. Whereas previously the only way to avoid damage was to act before an attack was initiated, in this game attacks are animation based and it is possible to avoid any one by triggering an evade before the animation completes. Partly to make this mechanic “worth it,” GW2 has been designed with very heavy hitting attack potential. For example, I have a Rifle Warrior build which, though NOT a glass cannon (1600 toughness, 22k hp, 2 defensive skills), can still hit for 16 – 17k over the course of 2 button presses and about 3 seconds.

Now this and other hard hitting attacks are easily recognized and should be evaded through dodge rolling, certain defensive skills, or certain weapon skills, or mitigated with protection or some other defensive boon.

In theory, this all makes perfect sense. In practice, it does not work this well because of how this mechanic interacts with a few other things.

First we need to note that the game has CC, and while most of the CCs are short the damage that can be taken in that time is immense.

Second, GW2 is a team game. While each player only has so many evades and mitigations available, the opposing team has multiple players worth of CCs and damage spikes. Thus, it is common for a player to take large hits by being CCed past his number of CC breaks or to have no endurance for a dodge when the 2nd or 3rd opponent tries to drop a damage spike on him.

Consider that if each class has a sufficient number and variety of CC, CC break, damage mitigation, and damage spike such that he will evenly balance out with any other class in a 1 v 1, then by its very nature any single player is going to be lacking by a degree of approximately 50% when it comes to facing an additional player. The end result is that any one player simply does not have the ability to avoid the CC and spike damage from any two or more players of equal skill.

Now given this, the same ought to be true of other MMO PvP combat systems if they are also balanced so that 1v1s are even. The reason it hasn’t been this way is that these games have had lower overall damage (they were not trying to incentivize dodging, as we noted) along with dedicated healing and dedicated support. Thus, 3 players chain stunning and spike damaging one would not necessarily be the end of that player because

a) Each of those players’ damage was significantly smaller compared to what it can be in GW2

b) That damage could be mitigated by dedicated PvP tanks using taunts, guards, and other mechanics

c) That damage could be made up for by dedicated healers

While Guild Wars 2 does permit players to spec into support and healing roles, the degree of impact they can have in damage mitigation or health replacement is significantly less than the healers and tanks from other games while the damage incoming on a player in GW2 is significantly more than what they would be facing in other games. The end result is a very short time-to-kill and lots of players feeling unhappy with the state of the game.

To really see how drastically different impact the healer/support players have in other games compared to GW2, consider that whereas in virtually all games to this point the most widely accepted sound strategy was to eliminate the healing and support players on the opposing team first, because they helped the team to stay alive and to succeed in the match, in GW2 the most common strategy is to worry about the support players last because they are typically too hard to kill relative to the other players while putting out the least amount of DPS threat. In GW2, the support isn’t being nearly so supportive as we’d hope and we know this because we don’t typically concern ourselves with cutting off that support as though its having a sufficiently high impact on the opposing team’s survivability or even DPS.

I strongly believe that its all of this which is really making sPvP what it currently is, and, while quickness contributes to that spike damage, its not, in the end, by any means the biggest culprit.

Reading this thread is hilarious. It’s reminiscent of all the threads in other competitive PvP games complaining about “broken” abilities that for some reason real competitive players never have a problem with.

If we take the complaints in this thread and see what they look like in League of Legends, a very similar competitive game (5 players on each side, winning is about objectives and not kills though kills help, and a limited set of abilities for each player), it becomes evident that quickness is not a problem. The complaints boil down to “This skill does too much burst damage to me and I can’t avoid it when my defensive skills are on CD because I’ve already used them!”

Well, if it’s a 1v1, then you used your defensive skills at the wrong time for the wrong crowd control. You should know that their class carries quickness – why did you use your escape on a soft cc?

If it’s 1v2, you are meant to lose given equal skill levels. This is a team game.

If it’s an even matchup, and then suddenly another enemy sneaks into the fight and kills you and that’s not fair because you didn’t see him coming so all your defensive skills are on cooldown, you were ALSO meant to lose. You got ganked. The extra enemy roamed. What you can do with that is either have your team take an objective since the extra enemy had to sacrifice position for that, or have them roam as well/follow the roamer.

Quickness is not broken because you can’t defend against it when you’ve already used all of your escapes. This is a team game, and you are not meant to be able to 1v2 or 1v3 yourself. You should also understand that positioning, map control, and map awareness are still relevant in this game. When you only have five players, every single player is about as important as you. Every single enemy is also as important as you. That doesn’t mean skill doesn’t matter, because skill is what wins you the game, but it does mean that you can’t faceroll this game 1v5 as a solo superstar and expect to win. If you want to do that, play a game where there are no teams. If you want to get better, figure out how to build for whatever is stopping you from winning the game (note: you do not build for kills or fighting, you build for winning the game) and realize that there are nine other players in the game who might be at least as good as you.

Also, 8v8 is not competitive and should not be balanced around if GW2 is to become an eSport.

edit: Every class has two dodges for free that regenerate with time. My warrior can take Shield Stance, Endure Pain, and Fear Me on top of that. My mesmer can take Phase Retreat, Chaos Armor (Staff 4 Chaos Armor has a 100% chance of proccing Protection), several Aegis procs, multiple sources of Evasion/Distortion, and multiple sources of Reflection. Many classes have 5+ ways to mitigate or avoid damage completely. You can easily dodge Quickness, and other threatening abilities, as long as you have the map awareness to know when to fight and when to not fight.

Sky.9347:

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

Quickness was already nerfed once. The time was reduced from 6s to 4s.

The downside to quickness is that the player cannot heal, recieve heals, or even recieve the benefits from any type of invulnerability (like ranger Signet of Earth-traited). When the class using quickness is utilizing it, they are open to any damage for 4secs without the ability to heal, and for thieves, I would assume the ability to stealth as well.

Understand quickness!

teviko.6049:

Sky.9347:

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

Quickness was already nerfed once. The time was reduced from 6s to 4s.

The downside to quickness is that the player cannot heal, recieve heals, or even recieve the benefits from any type of invulnerability (like ranger Signet of Earth-traited). When the class using quickness is utilizing it, they are open to any damage for 4secs without the ability to heal, and for thieves, I would assume the ability to stealth as well.

Understand quickness!

Warriors take 50% increased damage during Quickness instead of not being able to heal, and Thieves lose all endurance and cannot regain endurance (read: cannot dodge) during Quickness.

Also, Warriors’ quickness lasts 5 seconds, not 4. The tool-tip is broken on it. The trait is also broken on it and does not increase the quickness stance duration.

teviko.6049:

Sky.9347:

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

Quickness was already nerfed once. The time was reduced from 6s to 4s.

The downside to quickness is that the player cannot heal, recieve heals, or even recieve the benefits from any type of invulnerability (like ranger Signet of Earth-traited). When the class using quickness is utilizing it, they are open to any damage for 4secs without the ability to heal, and for thieves, I would assume the ability to stealth as well.

Understand quickness!

Each skill that provides it has it’s own drawback though. The warrior version makes them take increased damage, the ranger version makes them unable to heal, the thief version drains endurance and stops regen of endurance.

They don’t all get all of those at the same time. The elite versions of quickness have no drawbacks (which is okay, since they are elites and all).

I’m not sure where you’re getting the rest of those drawbacks. I just pulled information from the official wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness

Sky.9347:

teviko.6049:

Sky.9347:

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

Quickness was already nerfed once. The time was reduced from 6s to 4s.

The downside to quickness is that the player cannot heal, recieve heals, or even recieve the benefits from any type of invulnerability (like ranger Signet of Earth-traited). When the class using quickness is utilizing it, they are open to any damage for 4secs without the ability to heal, and for thieves, I would assume the ability to stealth as well.

Understand quickness!

Each skill that provides it has it’s own drawback though. The warrior version makes them take increased damage, the ranger version makes them unable to heal, the thief version drains endurance and stops regen of endurance.

They don’t all get all of those at the same time. The elite versions of quickness have no drawbacks (which is okay, since they are elites and all).

I’m not sure where you’re getting the rest of those drawbacks. I just pulled information from the official wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness

I do not agree that elite versions of quickness has no drawbacks. Otherwise, mesmers would run time warp all the time. This is simply not the case.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

So again if we are hit with hard CC. Stun, The expectation is that the other team is doing this for a reason. In other words they are going to hit you hard. Or they are setting up a combo. And yes there are only a few things to use those CD’s on. The problem is that your saying we should only use them for Quickness. That is broken.

Abilities that break CC should be used to break, well CC. If you can’t use those CC breakers just because they might us Quickness on you, that is broken.

How do you know when a CC will be followed by a quickness or not? Hint from us that have played the game. You can’t.

I’m not saying ‘only on quickness’. i’m saying if you’re going up against a 100 blades warrior, and you’ve already blown your CC’s when he crippled you, and then you also dodged some auto attacks, and then you used your gap generator just because he was pretty close to you and you didnt like it, and then wow you have nothing now omfg 100 blades frenzy QQ…..whose fault is that? its not cuz of quickness

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

So again if we are hit with hard CC. Stun, The expectation is that the other team is doing this for a reason. In other words they are going to hit you hard. Or they are setting up a combo. And yes there are only a few things to use those CD’s on. The problem is that your saying we should only use them for Quickness. That is broken.

Abilities that break CC should be used to break, well CC. If you can’t use those CC breakers just because they might us Quickness on you, that is broken.

How do you know when a CC will be followed by a quickness or not? Hint from us that have played the game. You can’t.

I’m not saying ‘only on quickness’. i’m saying if you’re going up against a 100 blades warrior, and you’ve already blown your CC’s when he crippled you, and then you also dodged some auto attacks, and then you used your gap generator just because he was pretty close to you and you didnt like it, and then wow you have nothing now omfg 100 blades frenzy QQ…..whose fault is that? its not cuz of quickness

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

Well if we are going to go off your list. its Quickness. and that’s it.

Very short list.

so i take this to mean, no you have no list and as soon as you get any sort of CC on you, there goes the trinket

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

Well if we are going to go off your list. its Quickness. and that’s it.

Very short list.

so i take this to mean, no you have no list and as soon as you get any sort of CC on you, there goes the trinket

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

LOL so you have a “friend” oh how nice. Next time perhaps you should play a Prof. Also I never said i played a Necro. Or that i have problems playing them. Perhaps you should learn to read? You stated that we should just use our Gap openers. I was pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the game or what abilities Prof have, as Necro’s don’t have one.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

“Quickness is the only thing threatening in this game and worth dodging/cc breaking!”
“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”
“But it’s balanced!”

Seems legit….

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

LOL so you have a “friend” oh how nice. Next time perhaps you should play a Prof. Also I never said i played a Necro. Or that i have problems playing them. Perhaps you should learn to read? You stated that we should just use our Gap openers. I was pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the game or what abilities Prof have, as Necro’s don’t have one.

uh no, i said in general use gap generators, stun breakers, dodges as a list of things any particular class may be able to do. you in turn said LOL WUT ABOUT NECROS

i’m also not the one having problems with the most basic combos in the game, so I guess I must have no understanding of this game, you’re right. assuming the game you are talking about is being terrible at guild wars 2

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

“Quickness is the only thing threatening in this game and worth dodging/cc breaking!”
“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”
“But it’s balanced!”

Seems legit….

what you apparently think I wrote: “It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”

what I actually wrote: “the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on”

okay your reading comprehension skills are about as good as your sPvP skills it seems. case closed.

I’m sorry. This game is too complicated for you and your squirrel friend. Asking you to use a skill to counter another skill is too complicated.

Its like you’re a hunter and you have to feed your starving family. You have 1 bullet. you go hunting. You shoot the first squirrel you see, instead of waiting for a buffalo. Your family starves and then you say buffalos are OP.

I really don’t know how else to explain to you guys how stupid your arguments are.

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

LOL so you have a “friend” oh how nice. Next time perhaps you should play a Prof. Also I never said i played a Necro. Or that i have problems playing them. Perhaps you should learn to read? You stated that we should just use our Gap openers. I was pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the game or what abilities Prof have, as Necro’s don’t have one.

uh no, i said in general use gap generators, stun breakers, dodges as a list of things any particular class may be able to do. you in turn said LOL WUT ABOUT NECROS

i’m also not the one having problems with the most basic combos in the game, so I guess I must have no understanding of this game, you’re right. assuming the game you are talking about is being terrible at guild wars 2

Again your poor reading. Perhaps going back to school is in order? I again never said i had a problem playing a necro. So not sure why you keep making this up.

And of course your not having problems with necro’s you already have stated that you don’t play them. So its not like you understand them at all, you just have a lol “friend”. who does. Its like saying you have a cousin in Miami, or a relative is a cop. Means very little.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

LOL so you have a “friend” oh how nice. Next time perhaps you should play a Prof. Also I never said i played a Necro. Or that i have problems playing them. Perhaps you should learn to read? You stated that we should just use our Gap openers. I was pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the game or what abilities Prof have, as Necro’s don’t have one.

uh no, i said in general use gap generators, stun breakers, dodges as a list of things any particular class may be able to do. you in turn said LOL WUT ABOUT NECROS

i’m also not the one having problems with the most basic combos in the game, so I guess I must have no understanding of this game, you’re right. assuming the game you are talking about is being terrible at guild wars 2

Again your poor reading. Perhaps going back to school is in order? I again never said i had a problem playing a necro. So not sure why you keep making this up.

And of course your not having problems with necro’s you already have stated that you don’t play them. So its not like you understand them at all, you just have a lol “friend”. who does. Its like saying you have a cousin in Miami, or a relative is a cop. Means very little.

usually when someone counters an argument by saying “TRY PLAYING A NECRO” it means you as a necro have all this necro experience and thus you are qualified to talk about it. instead your logic is a poor as your guild wars 2 sPvP ability.

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

“Quickness is the only thing threatening in this game and worth dodging/cc breaking!”
“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”
“But it’s balanced!”

Seems legit….

“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”

“the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on”

okay your reading comprehension skills are about as good as your sPvP skills it seems. case closed.

If you and you’re friends aren’t scared of quickness instagibs, then why do you tell everyone to save all of their dodges and cc breakers for it?

You running your own argument backwards.

“Quickness is fine!!!! None of my friends are scared of it” and….
“Make sure you save all of your everything because quickness!!!!”

Seems legit…

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

“Quickness is the only thing threatening in this game and worth dodging/cc breaking!”
“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”
“But it’s balanced!”

Seems legit….

“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”

“the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on”

okay your reading comprehension skills are about as good as your sPvP skills it seems. case closed.

If you and you’re friends aren’t scared of quickness instagibs, then why do you tell everyone to save all of their dodges and cc breakers for it?

You running your own argument backwards.

“Quickness is fine!!!! None of my friends are scared of it” and….
“Make sure you save all of your everything because quickness!!!!”

Seems legit…

Ya he does seem to have some problems with logic. His fall back is to always attack the poster. That will happen next

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

are you kidding me?

you seriously cant follow this chain of logic?

here is what POTENTIALLY might happen:

1) get CC’d
2) get burst on because you are CC’d
3) die

now tell me, at what step should the smart gamer use his escape? at what point would you say, okay this is happening now, I should trinket and stop this step because it is critical.

hint: its 2, not 1. you’re doing it at 1. or maybe 3. but definitely not 2 because then you wouldn’t be here complaining you get caught with your pants down for 15k damage

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

are you kidding me?

you seriously cant follow this chain of logic?

here is what POTENTIALLY might happen:

1) get CC’d
2) get burst on because you are CC’d
3) die

now tell me, at what step should the smart gamer use his escape? at what point would you say, okay this is happening now, I should trinket and stop this step because it is critical.

hint: its 2, not 1. you’re doing it at 1. or maybe 3. but definitely not 2 because then you wouldn’t be here complaining you get caught with your pants down for 15k damage

This is just so sad. Because it does not work that way. That’s the problem and what this thread is about. I agree it should be on 2. But quickness means that you have to use it on 1. As the damage comes in to fast for you to wait for 2.

Well now that you understand what this thread is about. Perhaps it can move on.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

are you kidding me?

you seriously cant follow this chain of logic?

here is what POTENTIALLY might happen:

1) get CC’d
2) get burst on because you are CC’d
3) die

now tell me, at what step should the smart gamer use his escape? at what point would you say, okay this is happening now, I should trinket and stop this step because it is critical.

hint: its 2, not 1. you’re doing it at 1. or maybe 3. but definitely not 2 because then you wouldn’t be here complaining you get caught with your pants down for 15k damage

This is just so sad. Because it does not work that way. That’s the problem and what this thread is about. I agree it should be on 2. But quickness means that you have to use it on 1. As the damage comes in to fast for you to wait for 2.

Well now that you understand what this thread is about. Perhaps it can move on.

no, it does not come too fast. you will take some damage of course, but if you have any sort of non-vegetable reflex, you should be able to get out before the full damage is done (and by the way damage just happens to be back loaded for things like heartseekers and hundred blades)

if you cant press one key in 3 seconds, what else can i say? most people got it, some people dont

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

are you kidding me?

you seriously cant follow this chain of logic?

here is what POTENTIALLY might happen:

1) get CC’d
2) get burst on because you are CC’d
3) die

now tell me, at what step should the smart gamer use his escape? at what point would you say, okay this is happening now, I should trinket and stop this step because it is critical.

hint: its 2, not 1. you’re doing it at 1. or maybe 3. but definitely not 2 because then you wouldn’t be here complaining you get caught with your pants down for 15k damage

This is just so sad. Because it does not work that way. That’s the problem and what this thread is about. I agree it should be on 2. But quickness means that you have to use it on 1. As the damage comes in to fast for you to wait for 2.

Well now that you understand what this thread is about. Perhaps it can move on.

no, it does not come too fast. you will take some damage of course, but if you have any sort of non-vegetable reflex, you should be able to get out before the full damage is done (and by the way damage just happens to be back loaded for things like heartseekers and hundred blades)

if you cant press one key in 3 seconds, what else can i say? most people got it, some people dont

You really can’t help but attack the poster can you? Every time you replay you attack the poster.

And again you don’t get it. quickness means that the damage does in fact come in way to fast. This is what most people ani quickness have said over and over again. You can’t react when you die in 1-2 sec.

You do understand that none of us think your good at pvp right? That the non stop attacking of other peoples skills just shows that you have none. You even have to make up information just so that you can attack fellow posters and call them unskilled.

Your next post will be an attack on a fellow poster. Come on prove me wrong, just this once. It will be a nice change of pace for you.

Dallas logic:

It’s ok to let a Thief root/pistol whip you over and over without cc breaking, because he hasn’t used quickness yet.

Awake.6017:

Dallas logic:

It’s ok to let a Thief root/pistol whip you over and over, because he hasn’t used quickness yet.

Well that and You can’t break the CC until after the pistol whip hits you, then you know your taking damage.

what can i say? you’re having troubles with something a large amount of people and literally all the serious pvp players are saying is mostly a gimmick. what do you want, praise? an apology?

if it makes you feel any better i am almost 100% sure if you actually tried to beat quickness builds you could do it. its just that you and others seem to be more willing to QQ on forums than put in that smaller amount of effort.

whether you or anyone else thinks i’m good or not does not matter the slightest to me because 1) there is no way to quantify it (although its pretty easy to tell if someone is BAD) and 2) once there is a way to quantify it such as a ranking or rating, it’ll sort itself out and I’m not at all worried

Dallas.2536:

what can i say? you’re having troubles with something a large amount of people and literally all the serious pvp players are saying is mostly a gimmick. what do you want, praise? an apology?

if it makes you feel any better i am almost 100% sure if you actually tried to beat quickness builds you could do it. its just that you and others seem to be more willing to QQ on forums than put in that smaller amount of effort.

whether you or anyone else thinks i’m good or not does not matter the slightest to me because 1) there is no way to quantify it (although its pretty easy to tell if someone is BAD) and 2) once there is a way to quantify it such as a ranking or rating, it’ll sort itself out and I’m not at all worried

Yep called it. You just can’t help attacking fellow posters. Oh and QQ does not mean what you think it means.

So if you don’t have a problem with it and you don’t think there is any problem with it. And you have nothing positive to add to the thread as you have added nothing positive to the thread. Nor have you given any information about how you deal with quickness, or even why killing someone in 1-2 sec is ok. Why are you posting in this thread?

Now back on topic. While there are ways of dealing with quickness, not all of them work very well or help all that much. The fact that you can’t tell that some one is using it makes the problem worse.

In my opinion there never should be anything in the game that insta gibs another players. It takes the fun, and competitiveness out of the game. After all who would watch a football game if one team had the ability to instantly score a touchdown every once in a while (not really the best analogy).

And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage. And in a 2v2 it would not matter anyway.

im not sure its possible to have a productive conversation with you when you make claims like “killing someone in 1-2 sec”

please tell me what skills can do 20k damage in 2-4 seconds normally. because that is basically what you are saying – doing these skills, but with quickness, will be 1-2 seconds.

Dallas.2536:

im not sure its possible to have a productive conversation with you when you make claims like “killing someone in 1-2 sec”

please tell me what skills can do 20k damage in 2-4 seconds normally. because that is basically what you are saying – doing these skills, but with quickness, will be 1-2 seconds.

I am sorry but this thread is not about educating you about what Prof have what skills. And yet another post by you that is not productive. way to go. Keep them coming.

okay, so you were unable to come up with a combination of skills that can do your ridiculous claim of 20k damage in 4 seconds. because it doesn’t exist. my point is proven, you know not of which you speak, thank you.

Dallas.2536:

okay, so you were unable to come up with a combination of skills that can do your ridiculous claim of 20k damage in 4 seconds. because it doesn’t exist. my point is proven, you know not of which you speak, thank you.

So you don’t understand the game. And don’t know what abilities other Prof have. Ok so that just means nothing you have said up to this point means anything. Good to know. Thanks.

ps. I never said it was from a single player. I am truly sorry that the education system as failed you this badly.

oh by the way what you said here?

“And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage.”

i have found out the problem. you have the reflexes of a rock. anet does not balance around rocks.

ps. I know you have no point. now you’re saying oh its not from a single player? i mean really?

1) that just makes it more important to avoid. like you know, everyone’s been telling you? doesnt matter if 8 people hit you at once, if you dodge you dodge.
2) i didn’t know when 2 people gang up to kill someone, the proper response is to nerf a skill that one of the people is using. you know, instead of accepting that it was 1v2 and if you didnt dodge you’re taking a lot of damage

anyway i’m going home now. if you want to prove your amazing point you can play whatever quickness build you want, and if you can kill me once in 15 minutes i’ll concede you absolutely know what you are talking about. I wont even go tank builds, I’ll just have a couple trinkets and my heal. only thing is its going up on youtube after.

Dallas.2536:

oh by the way what you said here?

“And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage.”

i have found out the problem. you have the reflexes of a rock. anet does not balance around rocks.

Ah so you have no arguments and are back to attack fellow posters. I will take this as a no. Again for the reading impaired.

until your hit with someone using quickness there is very little indication that they have it on. So that takes time off of that. Than you have to say in “you fill in what you use” to tell other members what is going on. You have to tell them who and what. Next your team has to react to this information. Again all this takes time. Than your team has to wait for their current actions to finish (or get out of it). Again takes time. All of witch means that the window of time you have to take advantage of that weakness gets smaller and smaller.

It is very hard, who am i kidding, impossible to take any thing you say seriously when you make statements like this.

Oh I get it, you just run bots in your spvp games.

Imo it can stay but reduce to +50% animation speed so you can at least have some time to react

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

oh by the way what you said here?

“And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage.”

i have found out the problem. you have the reflexes of a rock. anet does not balance around rocks.

Ah so you have no arguments and are back to attack fellow posters. I will take this as a no. Again for the reading impaired.

until your hit with someone using quickness there is very little indication that they have it on. So that takes time off of that. Than you have to say in “you fill in what you use” to tell other members what is going on. You have to tell them who and what. Next your team has to react to this information. Again all this takes time. Than your team has to wait for their current actions to finish (or get out of it). Again takes time. All of witch means that the window of time you have to take advantage of that weakness gets smaller and smaller.

It is very hard, who am i kidding, impossible to take any thing you say seriously when you make statements like this.

Oh I get it, you just run bots in your spvp games.

do you really think people are like that on voice comms? clearly you have not ever played a game of tournament in a organized setting.

person a: HELLO SIR I AM BEING ATTACKED I BELIEVE HE IS USING QUICKNESS. I WOULD LIKE ASSISTANCE PLEASE

person b: UNDERSTOOD I WILL ASSIST.

person a: ALAS I HAVE PASSED.

person b: OH NO :’(

here’s what really happens:

person a: lol this guy frenzied.

person a: and he’s dead

person b: what akitten lol

i will literally cancel my account if you can stream your tournament history from in-game and you have even 10 wins. TEN WINS. this is how confident I am that you have no clue what is going on

Art of Ecstasy.9201:

Reading this thread is hilarious. It’s reminiscent of all the threads in other competitive PvP games complaining about “broken” abilities that for some reason real competitive players never have a problem with.

If we take the complaints in this thread and see what they look like in League of Legends, a very similar competitive game (5 players on each side, winning is about objectives and not kills though kills help, and a limited set of abilities for each player), it becomes evident that quickness is not a problem. The complaints boil down to “This skill does too much burst damage to me and I can’t avoid it when my defensive skills are on CD because I’ve already used them!”

Well, if it’s a 1v1, then you used your defensive skills at the wrong time for the wrong crowd control. You should know that their class carries quickness – why did you use your escape on a soft cc?

If it’s 1v2, you are meant to lose given equal skill levels. This is a team game.

If it’s an even matchup, and then suddenly another enemy sneaks into the fight and kills you and that’s not fair because you didn’t see him coming so all your defensive skills are on cooldown, you were ALSO meant to lose. You got ganked. The extra enemy roamed. What you can do with that is either have your team take an objective since the extra enemy had to sacrifice position for that, or have them roam as well/follow the roamer.

Quickness is not broken because you can’t defend against it when you’ve already used all of your escapes. This is a team game, and you are not meant to be able to 1v2 or 1v3 yourself. You should also understand that positioning, map control, and map awareness are still relevant in this game. When you only have five players, every single player is about as important as you. Every single enemy is also as important as you. That doesn’t mean skill doesn’t matter, because skill is what wins you the game, but it does mean that you can’t faceroll this game 1v5 as a solo superstar and expect to win. If you want to do that, play a game where there are no teams. If you want to get better, figure out how to build for whatever is stopping you from winning the game (note: you do not build for kills or fighting, you build for winning the game) and realize that there are nine other players in the game who might be at least as good as you.

Also, 8v8 is not competitive and should not be balanced around if GW2 is to become an eSport.

edit: Every class has two dodges for free that regenerate with time. My warrior can take Shield Stance, Endure Pain, and Fear Me on top of that. My mesmer can take Phase Retreat, Chaos Armor (Staff 4 Chaos Armor has a 100% chance of proccing Protection), several Aegis procs, multiple sources of Evasion/Distortion, and multiple sources of Reflection. Many classes have 5+ ways to mitigate or avoid damage completely. You can easily dodge Quickness, and other threatening abilities, as long as you have the map awareness to know when to fight and when to not fight.

Two points. Keep in mind here that I’m not a “quickness is bad” person. I’m a “there’s something off about the PvP in general” person.

First, you’re certainly not meant to win a 1 v 2 against players of equal skill – at least not in normal circumstances. You should, however, be able to put up a fight and ideally survive long enough for help to arrive. In the current state of the game, you really can’t at equal skill level. The time to kill is just too short, the way CC and DPS increase per additional player is too exponential, etc.

Second, I think you’re overestimating how many CC breaks, mitigation – basically, defense in general – every class can bring. Some have it far better than others, for example Engineers with a 15 second cooldown break immobilize versus Rangers without any way to break immobilize. As it is, this area of the game isn’t quite balanced. This isn’t to say that every class doesn’t have some way to deal with every thing they’ll face, but some will still run dry on these options far, far more quickly, and some need to sacrifice far, far more in their overall build to get these options than others.

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

oh by the way what you said here?

“And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage.”

i have found out the problem. you have the reflexes of a rock. anet does not balance around rocks.

Ah so you have no arguments and are back to attack fellow posters. I will take this as a no. Again for the reading impaired.

until your hit with someone using quickness there is very little indication that they have it on. So that takes time off of that. Than you have to say in “you fill in what you use” to tell other members what is going on. You have to tell them who and what. Next your team has to react to this information. Again all this takes time. Than your team has to wait for their current actions to finish (or get out of it). Again takes time. All of witch means that the window of time you have to take advantage of that weakness gets smaller and smaller.

It is very hard, who am i kidding, impossible to take any thing you say seriously when you make statements like this.

Oh I get it, you just run bots in your spvp games.

do you really think people are like that on voice comms? clearly you have not ever played a game of tournament in a organized setting.

person a: HELLO SIR I AM BEING ATTACKED I BELIEVE HE IS USING QUICKNESS. I WOULD LIKE ASSISTANCE PLEASE

person b: UNDERSTOOD I WILL ASSIST.

person a: ALAS I HAVE PASSED.

person b: OH NO :’(

here’s what really happens:

person a: lol this guy frenzied.

person a: and he’s dead

person b: what akitten lol

i will literally cancel my account if you can stream your tournament history from in-game and you have even 10 wins. TEN WINS. this is how confident I am that you have no clue what is going on

Brave man, but a confident man!

I also think quickness is not a problem. Animation-based combat makes evading attacks, even quickness-boosted ones, easy enough that it’s not a big deal. It’s like people don’t have experience playing games where reflexes are required. And by reflexes, I mean 0.4sec or less reaction time, which is easily achievable. The instant their quickness animation starts, you should be able to mitigate all but the first hit or two of their attack.

Skolops.2604:

Two points. Keep in mind here that I’m not a “quickness is bad” person. I’m a “there’s something off about the PvP in general” person.

First, you’re certainly not meant to win a 1 v 2 against players of equal skill – at least not in normal circumstances. You should, however, be able to put up a fight and ideally survive long enough for help to arrive. In the current state of the game, you really can’t at equal skill level. The time to kill is just too short, the way CC and DPS increase per additional player is too exponential, etc.

Second, I think you’re overestimating how many CC breaks, mitigation – basically, defense in general – every class can bring. Some have it far better than others, for example Engineers with a 15 second cooldown break immobilize versus Rangers without any way to break immobilize. As it is, this area of the game isn’t quite balanced. This isn’t to say that every class doesn’t have some way to deal with every thing they’ll face, but some will still run dry on these options far, far more quickly, and some need to sacrifice far, far more in their overall build to get these options than others.

I personally don’t think the time-to-kill is too short in a 1v2. I think it’s too long, but that’s a difference in our opinions of what makes a game competitive. I feel like players should not be able to “call for help” and fend off until reinforcements arrive, and instead they should be punished for not proactively being in the right position. Perhaps that is my bias from DotA and LoL speaking though, where in those games if you were in a 1v2 during most of the early stages of the game, you either escaped or died within a couple of seconds. Certainly not enough time for players from other parts of the map to come reinforce for you. So that first point is a difference in what we believe makes a game more competitive and more fun as a spectator sport. I believe that if fights were more survivable 1v2, it would be both less fun to watch and less competitive.

As to your second point, perhaps you are right – I’ve never played a Ranger. The question is then, is it acceptable for some classes to have less escapes in exchange for the ability to do other things better? Specifically related to quickness, is the variety in roster large enough for there to be “counter-picks” in the game and still have it be balanced? There’s 8 professions in the game, but there’s also many different weapon sets and utility sets that each profession can take. How many truly unique “load-outs” do you have in GW2? Is that number enough for there to be counter-picking and not have a stagnant metagame?

To illustrate what I mean, imagine a game that only had two classes, A and B. If A had a move that would nearly one-shot B and B had no good way to deal with it, everyone who played the game to win would have to always pick A. The variety wouldn’t be enough to make that an interesting game. If you added another class, C, then you’d have three classes on the roster and increases the number of classes by one, but the number of match-ups would increase exponentially (going from 1 to 3 in this case). When enough classes are added, at a certain point, the number of possible match-ups becomes so large that it is acceptable to leave some interactions between classes (say, a Lightsaber-Warrior vs BlasterGun-Ranger) broken or harder to deal with than you’d like. If most interactions between the classes are fair enough that it’s balanced and allows for skill to differentiate whether one team wins over another, then it’s not necessary to fix certain broken interactions.

I’m not saying that the current implementation of the “give-classes-burst-damage” mechanic (ie. quickness) is perfect, but I wanted to clarify that the reason I believe it’s a good mechanic is because it allows for a more exciting spectator sport and a more competitive TEAM game and that even if it wasn’t fair in some situations, the overall health of the game benefits from having it in the game as it is now.

If you have differing thoughts on why quickness detracts from the health of the game (whether that is the competitiveness of the game, the potential eSports nature of the game, or anything else), please let me know! I’m always interested in learning something new.

If quickness goes then invul needs to go too, by logic.

Both are fine, if you can’t counter quickness you have major L2P issues.

Art of Ecstasy.9201:

I personally don’t think the time-to-kill is too short in a 1v2…….

snip

I think a comparison between dota and objective based MMO PvP is not necessarily a good one, because the goals in the two games and the means by which you go about achieving those goals are so different. In fact, I very highly value objective based PvP (not that dota isn’t objective based, but its just a different animal) and I think that’s a big part of the reason I don’t have as much fun in this game as others: right now, most people don’t really play the objectives very well or consistently.

Given this, I think the whole concept of defending a point, having 1, 2, or 3 people coming to try to take it away and managing to survive long enough for teammates to arrive to help defend absolutely needs to be possible. For point of reference, in TOR whether I was on my tank or my squishy DPS, I could hold a point long enough for help to arrive – though by different means and with different subtleties to it all – ahh, such great depth! I think this makes the game more team oriented, not less. It means that the victor of the overall TEAM PvP match is going to be the TEAM who can work together to control the map and win the fights. Contrast this to the groups of 3 or 4 people who run around taking points by ganking other players. In that latter case, the team that wins may be the one who controls the map the best, but I think it takes something away from other aspects of the team versus team concept.

I also think that people dieing in 10 or 15 seconds is terrible for the e-sport concept. One of the things that makes competition interesting to watch is a tension about the outcome which builds and resolves over time. Thus, you watch a football game and see it slowly take shape. A game which is 24 – 0 in the first quarter is simply not entertaining, but one which gets to be 24 – 0 over the course of 4 quarters can be interesting. Imagine if boxing matches ended in 20 seconds. It would be a tremendously unpopular sport. Of course, you can go the other way too far as well, and so ideally you want a balance where battles are decided before it gets boring not so quickly that they don’t have a chance to take shape.

@Anet – told ya so

Skolops.2604:

I think a comparison between dota and objective based MMO PvP …

The point that an aspect of competition that makes it interesting is the resolution of conflict over time is one I agree with. I think you’re right about that, but if I may go and apply the concept to sPvP – the score in football is kept by the number of points scored by each team. How the individual teams go about getting those points isn’t much of a concern for the involvement of the fans watching the game. Of course, fans like to see strategy and tactics, but it doesn’t matter too much which ones are used! Some strategies are more action-intensive than others, but at the end of the day, all that matters is the score. Consequently, if one team can win against another team by scoring better using a gank-heavy strategy than a defensive strategy, even though on the surface it seems that it’s not as good a measurement of team play, doesn’t it still mean that overall the gank-heavy team played better than the other team? Perhaps it does take something away from the other aspect of a Team v. Team game, but I believe it also adds something at the same time. While a metagame revolving around roaming isn’t very good at showcasing different players’ ability to play well in teamfights, one revolving around teamfights is similarly not very good at showcasing a player’s ability to influence the map with his team. Differing strategies will then be more fun or less fun depending on personal preference, and I don’t think a roaming metagame has anything wrong with it or is any less of a team strategy.

If boxing matches ended in 20 seconds, it would make boxing a boring sport. Resolution over time with plenty of chances for “come-backs” is important to the health of a sport. But I don’t think quick-ending matches being bad is applicable to quick deaths being bad. The reason is if a match ended in 20 seconds or if the game is definitively over then there’s no reason for a fan to keep watching. But death is not the same thing as losing in an objective-based game. The only thing that really brings you closer to losing is the actual objective itself, or points. If capturing points were so valuable that teams reached 500 points in 20 seconds, it would not be a very exciting or competitive game. On that I agree with you, and personally I would like to see the game end at 800 or 1000 points instead of 500, but I don’t agree that the analogy extends to dying in the game. You say, “ideally you want a balance where battles are decided before it gets boring not so quickly that they don’t have a chance to take shape”. I would argue that the rate that battles are decided at does not matter so much as the rate that the “match” is decided at, which is more analogous to the football score or boxing match length. And the match is not decided by battles, but by control of points. Plenty of people die in far less than 10 seconds in many competitive spectator sport games, yet it doesn’t seem to matter to fans. In MOBA games, being caught out of position by a DPS enemy can lead to dying in less than one or two seconds, or almost instaneously. That doesn’t detract from the fun of the game! (Except for the person that died.) That’s because the true tension and resolution of tension toward an outcome that builds and resolves over time, as you put it, relate not to the battles directly but the objectives.

[5000 character limit – split post in half]

I do agree that the game is not as fun as it could be right now, but I think that’s not so much a balancing design decision as it is the point you made in your first paragraph. People don’t play consistently or play well at all for objectives right now. And the feeling of playing with a “team” right now, the missing feeling you’re talking about, that feeling can’t develop without more knowledge of how to play properly being spread out. I think two things need to happen for the game to truly have depth – first, the community needs to have access to resources that teach them how to play well such as guides, videos, professional teams, and so on. Secondly, and very importantly, there needs to be a clear ranking system based on nothing except for win/loss. Currently, I think the problems and the anti-fun that we’re all sort of feeling with the game is not due to balance issues, but is more due to the fact that people both don’t know how to play well and are also disincentivized from playing well. A ranking system would address that, whether it’s Elo, MMR, or something else. So really, I think your concerns are real about this game not being as fun as it should be, but I think they’re misdirected and it’s not so much a balance issue as it is a reward system issue. Even LoL during its early days with no visible ranking system was still fun and team-like; the core difference being that the only thing that influenced your reward at the end of a game was whether your team won or lost the match. (Also, autobalancing does not exist in any competitive game, but that’s an entirely different thing – I feel like ArenaNet needs to add an option for 5v5 solo join matchmade games with no autobalancing.)

Thoughts?