Guild Wars 2

I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was any justification for the discrepancy in total stat numbers between amulets? I really feel this is why Celestial is so strong on so many classes at the moment. Here’s how the numbers stack up:

Cele: 3066
Zerk, Valk: 2363
Ramp: 2244
Standard: 2232

You might say that not all the stats on Cele are useful for everyone. Engineers can use every stat well, Eles are benefited by most if not all, and Warriors also benefit from most of them in the meta specs for conquest atm.

But even if you take condition damage away, the Cele amulet still offers well over 2600 stats , Vitality, Toughness and Healing Power are useful to everyone in varying degrees, but a balance of all three is excellent for survival. For anyone that isn’t built purely for conditions, Power, Precision and Ferocity are all useful. This is a real issue in my opinion.

For balance, Cele Amulets would have 318 of each stat. I can’t remember if that is how they were before or not, but it does seem like they are too strong at the moment for build diversity.

This has mostly been highlighted for my by the introduction of stronghold. Despite a plethora of builds becoming viable, the vast majority still use celestial, regardless of the role the player is seeking to perform.

Have we had any kind of justification for the difference in total stat numbers? I’d also be interested to know why ferocity on Zerker/Valk gives a higher total stat than Rampagers?

318…would make it garbage status amulet that no one would ever use.

120 on each stat makes all the difference? Would you care to suggest a median that would be balanced? It seems clear to me that this is the current strongest amulet and that this stat total is the reason why

Its strong on ele yes but they are TRASH without it so you need to give them any options you have scepter focus on trick pony block the burst and they die just by looking at you.

Cele good for so many builds? Which ones?

Last I checked only ele, engineer, and maybe warrior used celestial in current meta. That’s still missing out 4 other professions that don’t use celestial at all (celestial is garbage for necro, garbage for mesmer, and garbage for ranger and thief).

Apparently 2/7 or 3/7 using cele while the other 4/7 use berzerker/valkyrie is “broken”.

PvP person hyperbole at its finest.

I’d argue that in the current meta setup, 3 of the players, Shoutbow, cele ele and cele engi are all cele. The other classes arent meta purely because the cele amulet isnt as good for them. I’m not saying we should delete it, I’m just not sure its balanced

jonnis.2946:

I’d argue that in the current meta setup, 3 of the players, Shoutbow, cele ele and cele engi are all cele. The other classes arent meta purely because the cele amulet isnt as good for them. I’m not saying we should delete it, I’m just not sure its balanced

Oh, ok, so teams don’t use thieves or mediguards. Ok.

They absolutely do use thieves and med guards. In my opinion, those 5 are probably the current meta setup in high level teamplay. I don’t see how my post ruled out teams using those classes/specs

Well, anyone is free to use cele amulet to stack up stats or not.

But I’m wondering if anyone knew if there was any justification for the discrepancy in total stat numbers between professions?

I completely accept that every build is going to have an amulet that is best for it. I just think its noteworthy that three of the current meta specs, as going by http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
which is reasonably up to date, all use the same spec. That to me screams either a lack of build diversity or an overpowered amulet. Since these builds do similar roles, it could be either

Every time a new thing comes out … people start with the balanced and then customize there needs. Same story on repeat.

This was my original question, assuming you meant amulets, I’d be more than happy to get back to it

jonnis.2946:

120 on each stat makes all the difference? Would you care to suggest a median that would be balanced? It seems clear to me that this is the current strongest amulet and that this stat total is the reason why

yea of course it makes all the difference. amulet is the majority of the stats in pvp and you wanna take away a quarter of it…. that’s even lower than the original stats for celestial, which was already considered weak…

the cele amulet might not need to be nerfed, maybe buffing some of the other less used amulets? But then power creep…. maybe nerf cele and zerker a little bit?

Jae.5138:

jonnis.2946:

120 on each stat makes all the difference? Would you care to suggest a median that would be balanced? It seems clear to me that this is the current strongest amulet and that this stat total is the reason why

yea of course it makes all the difference. amulet is the majority of the stats in pvp and you wanna take away a quarter of it…. that’s even lower than the original stats for celestial, which was already considered weak…

Jae, one of the things I asked in my original post was what celestial was as I couldn’t remember (331 maybe?). I agree that 120 on each stat does make all the difference, but you didn’t address a stat value you would feel was balanced. I’d really rather have a constructive debate than shunning peoples opinions without any solutions though

jonnis.2946:

Jae.5138:

jonnis.2946:

120 on each stat makes all the difference? Would you care to suggest a median that would be balanced? It seems clear to me that this is the current strongest amulet and that this stat total is the reason why

yea of course it makes all the difference. amulet is the majority of the stats in pvp and you wanna take away a quarter of it…. that’s even lower than the original stats for celestial, which was already considered weak…

Jae, one of the things I asked in my original post was what celestial was as I couldn’t remember (331 maybe?). I agree that 120 on each stat does make all the difference, but you didn’t address a stat value you would feel was balanced. I’d really rather have a constructive debate than shunning peoples opinions without any solutions though

im shocked you didn’t do a quick google search because it was literally the first link that showed it (wiki didn’t update to show the latest)

previously it was 376. only half the amount of decrease you proposed and still considered near worthless.

This is still going on? Even though lots people have been moving on from the cele meta? Okay.

Celestial is fine.

Fix professions. Leave unbroken things alone.

Zenith.7301:

Cele good for so many builds? Which ones?

Last I checked only ele, engineer, and maybe warrior used celestial in current meta. That’s still missing out 4 other professions that don’t use celestial at all (celestial is garbage for necro, garbage for mesmer, and garbage for ranger and thief).

Apparently 2/7 or 3/7 using cele while the other 4/7 use berzerker/valkyrie is “broken”.

PvP person hyperbole at its finest.

These 3 also happen to be the strongest classes. I wonder why.

necrofail.7439:

the cele amulet might not need to be nerfed, maybe buffing some of the other less used amulets? But then power creep…. maybe nerf cele and zerker a little bit?

Most don’t need to be buffed just that the builds don’t require them for example rabid is good but people run a lot of condi cleanse

jonnis.2946:

I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was any justification for the discrepancy in total stat numbers between amulets?

All stats do not have the same marginal value for any given character. Some builds prefer Power, others Toughness, others still Condition Damage, but for each you vastly prefer another point in your chosen stat to one in a different stat.

As a consequence of this, the more different stats a piece of gear has on it, and the more uniform the distribution of stat points on that gear, the higher the total number of points it gives would have to be to make it competitive. A 4-stat piece of gear would need to have more raw points on it than a 3-stat piece of gear for it to be attractive; a hypothetical 2-stat amulet could have even fewer and still be viable.

As Celestial gives the highest possible number of stats, and a completely flat distribution, it should unquestionably have the highest total stat points of any theoretical gear piece; otherwise, it’s clearly not balanced. The numbers on it are pretty much where they should be to keep it on par with alternative gear options.