Guild Wars 2

(Edit: please don’t move this thread to the Suggestion section, i would like to have the pvp community feedback.)

I have been reading ton of thread, and collected and analyze what constructive post have been explain by some players about the current meta. This are some raw ideas that i came out with after taking into consideration of some informative post, i will be fine tuning and polishing these idea and take into consideration of what other ideas and feedback i get from the community, so feel free to comment. So prepare for a long read, and forgive me on some of my bad english XD.

This was an idea forward to Devs recently:

The post of needing a new mode for spvp and why death match/ arena is wanted more than conquest. Interestingly, players around the forum have given a lot of constructive feedback on why death match is not viable compare to conquest as a esport(as player need an objective to get player to react instead of a staring competition.). I also think that the finding the correct game mode is the 1st step to create a esport worthy pvp game. So an idea cross my mind when i was doing legacy of foe fire.
The idea for an esport, competitive game mode of conquest is chosen, but at the same time conquest set a undesirable meta to the game. Players hate conquest and love dueling/skirmishes, conquest don’t allow that. Conquest forces profession into extreme end of the build, i.e.: bunker and burst.
So something came into my mind, why not cross conquest + MOBA with special resource where a variety of build and strategy can flourish and it help reduce the gap of power and balance can be easier to achieve. So the objective to this map is not like legacy of foefire but with similar gameplay. The winning condition is to kill your opposing team lord, while conquest mode is still in place to gain resource needed to kill the lord. So this is how it goes, killing lord is the main objective, but the lord and the keep is impossible to breach and kill as players will start with their basic stats from the mist while lords and it gate are inflated to have more hp+def+dmg. How do players kill the lord is with special resource gain from controlling nodes and farms( both team start with 2 farm that give resource as time passes, i will go into more detail how this help the game mode). This resource is cap at 100 and as players gain resource it increases the all dmg dealt (condition and direct dmg) and all dmg reduction by a certain percentage( this need to be experimented on for the best ratio) and get more as the resource increase to 100. So as the game goes on players will get stronger and stronger(but does not break balance among players as dmg to dmg taken is the same) and breaching the gate and killing lord is then achievable.
So how does the nodes and farm come into play, i will go into more detail here. Both team will both have 2 farm next to their 2 gate away from the opposing team(for better defense.). Farm will provide a steady source of resource as the game goes on. The farm will consist of peasant that provide a objective to the opposing team, if the peasant are killed the farm then yield less resource for that duration till the peasant respawn. Let say if each farm have 2 peasant, killing all 4 peasant reduces the resource gain by 50%, without resource the team losses it edge to kill the lord. The node on the other hand also provide resource but less than farm, but it offer bonus resource and leverage as the team hold them for a certain amount of time. There will still be 3 node on this map, 1 node each on the extreme right and on the extreme left and a closer middle node to the player’s keep. The 2 extreme node provide more resource compare to the middle node and offer bonus resource if the team mange to hold it the time( let say extra 1% resource for every 2 min hold)., while the middle node yield resource but offer leverage like a waypoint in between(but closer to the the extreme node) extreme node and the keep to help ease defending a node and as the game progresses holding the middle node will offer the team a trebuchet to help seige the gates. The extreme node must be placed equally far from each corresponding gate and from each other so that it is hard for a team to control both node even with the middle node and so that skirmishes can happen and total domination of all node is unachievable by a single team if they well match(while the middle node is closer to the both keeps). One thing is that both node can be place equally far from both their corresponding gate but how to make the distance equal from each other, this i think can be achieve with a portal on both side of the middle node that help cut that extra distance from 1 node to another( this is for another strategy reason).

Next is some additional stuff that help make the game mode,
GATES, GUARD AND CANNON.
The gate are guarded by 2 guard each and cannon, these prevent gate sieging at the start of the game without enough resource. The guard also act as protecter to the peasant by giving them protection buff and condition remover when the condition are meet ie: being loaded with tons of condition to bursted by high spike dmg(these i think can add a bit more flavor to the game, pls give me your feedback on this idea.) to help player defend them from being killed easily. The guards don’t offer much dmg, one guard act as a protection guard that remove condition and buff protection, while 1 more guard offer control(stun, immobilize, etc). The cannon is where the main source of dmg comes from, they can’t be disable till the gate are down(dmg must be tweak for balance though.). The gate and walls won’t be like what you see in WvW, players can’t stand and attack from it, meaning that they can’t hide behind barrier and fend of their attacker. Instead players have to exit the gate to defend them from the siege, this will lead to a intense play among both teams to take down a team gates. Additionally, guard is aggrod to those that deal the most dmg to the gates while the cannon(an AI is needed, not player control) is aggro on who 1st interact with them and randomly chooses a new close by target if it’s existing target is lost. This will help create a team play where a bunker is needed to take the aggro of the cannon off the team and control or burst players effort on taking out the gate / defender / guards. The guard will start out 10-15% stronger than players and earn the same resource as the team they represent, they will get cap around 25-30% meaning when a team get get to 40-45% resource the players should be on par in dealing with a guard.(this value are just estimate must be tested to allow roamer to assault the peasant at a point in game.). While the cannon will start 10% higher and scale with resource till the gates are taken down.
FOREST CREATURES
Forest creature are this game mode side objective, it give player minor leverage in resource when killed and certain stronger one can provide buff or stat bonuses. They should be place out of the main route to the nodes around the map, maybe having 2 spawn on random location on both team, these creature won’t be able to be killed at the start of the game by team but will be easier as the game progresses to being soloed near 40-50% resource. Stronger creature can be use for special event to turn the tide or promote a certain team action, will elaborate longer later on.
SPECIAL EVENTS
These event are to help promote certain action , keep the game going or help a team end it. These event are to make the game mode a bit more interesting. Let say if a team have difference in resource exceeding 10%, an event will kick in that happen near the node where the weaker team control. If the weaker team manage to complete the event( let say if they can wipe out the pirates that have cargo shipment that appear by the stream near the node or either take a node from the enemy.), they will be awarded 5% resource if they kill the pirate and 8% if they take a node from the enemy in a set of duration or certain other condition. The enemy will be able to either prevent this by intercepting the players from killing the pirate or chose to hold a tighter control on their 2 node. This will help promote action from teams and change the pace of the game and make it interesting for viewership.

ORB OF POWER
This orb will be similar to the one in temple of the silent storm but it spawn once in between 1 of the extreme nodes and the middle node every maybe 3 – 5 mins that swap position every time it spawn. Similar to how the runes of power in dots are and should be accessible to players on both team. This should not show up on the mini map till the players are close by , to provide a RNG to the game and help promote roamers in the meta. This orb of power either give extra crit% + crit dmg to giving extra resource on kill or giving the players immunity to condition and cc.
LORD
For lord, the final objective of the game. Lord should be buff to around 75% stronger than normal 5 man team player to kill. They shouldn’t deal a lot of high dmg but able to deal enough pressure to a bunker that buff by 75% of resource. What i vision the lord to be is that, it require a group for at least 4 players that include 1 bunker to take down at 75% resource. The lord should are a bit like guard but are harder to kill, they offer more control and react to certain conditions., like buffing protection or maybe retaliation when being burst down to fast or remove condition when condition stack to high to setting up reflection when there too many range or maybe aoe the room his in once a while when players attacks him and should build to cater to more balance build of dps and survival. The Lord should be hard to be burst down at the start of the fight to prevent the boss from dying before the defending team reaches the base but get relative weaker over time as this will promote the defending team to wipe the attackers before the Lord get weaker and not use the Lord to control the offensive team. As the game get drag on to 100% resource the players now should be around 25% stronger than the lord and team will probably be in this scenario. Both teams have their gates down, team have their players split into maybe 3 assault and 2 to defend their Lords. Then the game will be push to which team is able to fend the assault and defeat the opposing lord to win.

REWARDING POINTS FOR ACTION
Team will be awarded resource when their team meet a certain quota or kill or maybe resses or defending nodes. I generally like awarding resource when team get kill, it what most players find fun in pvp and with all the other objective promoting action, now resource awarded on kill promote skirmishes between players while waiting for the resource to be meet to take on the lord. It can also provide a different means of gaining resource other than farms / nodes / forest creatures.
This is what i vision the game play to be:
1)Starting of the match:
team will fight for the 3 nodes, they will not be able to assault farm(cuz of guards) and gates( cuz of gaurds and cannon) or even take out the forest creatures for resource as it will be a waste of time(being harder to solo and requires a team at the start of the game) instead of taking nodes for resource and playing skirmishes which help get to know the opponent team set up.
2)Resource for team reaching 30-40%:
Team will now start to assault farm to widen the gap in resources , if taking nodes and skirmishing does not help to do so, which in that case slow down the resource generated from farms till the peasant respawn. Forest creatures are now able to be taken down with smaller groups or soloed for extra resource.
3) Resource for team reaching 40-65%( which should be half time or closing to the end of the game):
Special event will start activating to promote or help team in dead lock start sieging gates. I think a special event that let which ever team that control the middle node for a min or two able to activate a trebuchet to help siege the gates down. This trebuchet have only the range to hit the gates on not the nodes on either end and only appear when team successfully hit the quota and activate to build it(which will be instant of cuz) and prevent the node from being capture till the trebuchet is destroyed. The trebuchet should also take reduce dmg from players till there is not players from the trebuchet team on the node, these prevent defending team from zerging just the trebuchet and provide an advantage to help the assault team siege the gates. Special forest creature can be made to spawn too, to let the team that kill it gain extra bonus dmg and dmg reduction (i.e.: 10-15%) for a certain duration(maybe 2-3 or 5 min) to help them seige the opponent gates.
4) When one team reaches 75% resource:
Peasant of the opponent team that haven’t reach 75% resource now cannot be kill, so resource will be maintain to help promote player to seige the gate and not the farms and also prevent defending from losing too much resource from the team seiging the gates. Special Event to help close the gap in the difference of both team resource will no longer trigger. The game now is focus to seige the gates and take out the Lords.
5) when resource is over 80%:
The game should be looking like what i think it should look like at 80%. Players are now stronger than the lords and team will most probably have the gates taken down and now team will be split into defending their lord and a assault team that gonna take out the opponent lord.
Resource in this game should be tune to approximately reaches 100% before 45mins. I think if the duration of the game is too short the game can’t reach it potential and fun and will be seem rushed and skirmishes won’t be seen much too. So reaching 60-75% at 30min is kinda a the best time i guess(need to experiment with it) and end around 45min- 50 min. It should provide the players with enough fun , and time for each stage to be carry out.
I may have miss out some point but i would try to write a more complete thread on the forums with pictures of how i think the map would be like and how i vision it for our community to voice their opinion on this game mode. I would also like your feedback on what do you think of a game mode and would it help create a esport worthy map that variety of builds and strategy can flourish and would be interesting for viewer to watch and talk about?
From Fan of GW2 community.

DEATH RESPAWN TIMER
The player death respawn timer should slower increase as the team gain more resource, making death and rezzing team mate very important in later into the match. Making mistake will punish team later in game, making it harder to assault or defend and thus making it easier to game to be concluded and giving viewer more suspend as every moves counts!
NODE SIZE
The node must be big enough for players to dodge and fight inside of it. Something like the middle graveyard node in Legacy of foe fire. It will make skirmishing easier, aoe spamming weaker and evasive build and kiting viable on node fights.
(Edit: Node size like supply camps in WvW or a bit smaller, where aoe doesn’t rule, other build are more viable(like kiting and evasive) and include LOS where player can use to skirmish with on the node.)
WAYPOINT AT REZ POINT/STARTING POINT
It will be active when a opponent team siege your farm, letting players that are off the node for 5-8 sec and out of combat to waypoint back to help defend their farm. Will be disabled once your farm it not longer able to be siege(i.e.: 70-75% resource as stated in the 1st draft)

SIZE OF THE MAP
I think the map that a 1.5 or 2x larger than most of our spvp map is nice. I added factors like player management and making controlling mid for a waypoint to better defend you node is nice. Making it hard for reinforment to trail across the map from some far end point too fast making stronger team able to control all 3 node to themselves and this will also help make roamers strong in this meta.

These are some additional info from to further clarify some stuff:

I will start with why a modifies stats help in this game mode and why it won’t throw off balance the game.
Modifies stats point are here to help draw the game longer and to promote capping of nodes/assaulting of farms/events to promote skirmishes as these objective help team progress to winning, thus getting players will meet at these specific point where skirmishes will happen(that what players want, fights). I think skirmishes is also where the trill is , viewer would love to see high skill players flaunt their skills. While objective help viewer digest the game, letting them know who have the upper hand in winning at a certain time of the match. Next is why this resource that buff players won’t throw the game off balance, because all players have them. Farms/Nodes?kills/Special Events all provide these resource, players get a steady source of resource from farm. These resource is used to buff players vs npc target. As players gain resource, 1st peasant can be assaulted, 2nd forest creatures, 3rd gates and guards and finally the Lord to end the game. These resource will buff players dmg(all sources from condition to direct) and defense (reduce all dmg sources) from npc by a certain percentage that grows with resource. They are here to prolong the game, preventing some content of the match from happening straight off the start of the match. These does not affect players vs players but help players active the final winning objective.

“Secondary objectives are key, but there may be too many variables. Why orbs AND cap points? I like that a secondary objective can result from score, instead of score resulting from secondary objectives.”
Main objective of this mode is to kill the lord, but without resources as explain on top, players cannot achieve that goal. Which in that case now the thought is , gaining resources is now the main objective (1st phase of the game), because without it Lord can’t be killed. Which lead to having the game mode meta swapping in phases evolving the game as the players play into the match. So as i explain in the 1st draft right at the top, players will 1st enter the 1st phase, holding nodes, which promote bunker and burst to control those nodes. As the game progresses into second phase, roamer/ burst/ and control and healing/support comes into play when peasant and forest creatures are now able to be dealt with as resources let the players able to. Roamer and burst will then be sent to take out opponent peasants to slow them from their objective, while control, burst and support roles come into play in defending the peasant from harm. When the time where resource is enough for gate sieging, bunkers are needed to suck up the dmg from cannon, burst to remove the annoying guards and sustain dps with some survivability to take out the gates. Same goes for the lord before resource get drag into late game where Lord can be taken out due to extra dps and survivability from resources that help players end the game. These make a room for many different build and team composition to be viable in game. If your team consist of more bunkers, during phase 1 and controlling mid for trebuchet will be easier. What about a team with more roamers and burst, second phase will help you pick back up as now your strength of your team composition can come into play. What happen if you have more balance group, you can pick the weakness of your opponent and use it to your advantage. That is where lot of strategy can come into play and variety of build and team composition make this game mode interesting as no same match will be the same. It help prevent a straight loss to a team who team composition get defeated before the game match even start. As for orb, it help promote some roaming and assault teams to attack the other team. It will help buff the team who find it for a small moment, which will make team assign some players to fight over it, adding a bit more depth and twist to the game.

’The slow-pace of this mode may not be a good fit for GW2 since our quick matches is a good thing we have going for ourselves."
I think about a 30min game that can drag out to 40 min would be fine. Normal matches ranges from 10-15min and usually most players are running for objective, less skirmishes( that would be nice to watch and see it evolve in game, as players learn how to deal with their opponent.) and some times it to hard for team to make a come back or win from a bad start. I think a longer game mode that can fluctuate between teams that can make come backs , retaliate and struggle back to winning and creating uncertainties of the winning team will make the game really interesting to play and watch.
Ok, just to relate to Dota 2 by taking it good point that make it an interesting game to watch and play as a competitive export. There are phases which player enter, 1st is the laning phase, where player fight to gain gold to gain advantage to defeat the opposing team boss structure. 2nd when a player roamer/hunter gain enough advantage, they start roaming to other lane to pick of the opponent side lane to slow them down and to create a greater gap in their team winning chances. Runes help in promoting pick off as it give a slight advantages to the player that controls it, either making them stronger at picking off target or making them over confident that cause them to fall for traps and loss that advantage. 3rd come the pushing phase when team start coming together pushing toward the end goal and forcing team combat that either make or break a winning team. The are also key point in game that forces team to react to try to hold or gain extra advantage to winning the game, like taking out roshan that make their carry last to help them win team fights. Finally the final phase when team try to lock their victory in taking out the creatures barrack making their team stronger and harder for their opponent to make a come back. This game phases make team chose a variety of team composition, making unique item setup and strategy which make it really interesting to play and watch. Letting player learn and adapt to their opponent as the game goes on and make a come back even if their team composition is weaker at the start of the game.
So this game mode i propose uses the same concept, laning phase is like controlling node phase. Then proceed to assaulting farm, using orbs for assaults is similar to the phase where the roamer/hunter take runes and assault the side line to create gap in their winning chances. Gates assaulting phase is when most of the team to attempt their final objective. Where the trebuchet is like roshan which is one of the key turning point of sieging gates. If a team can manage to force their way into the keep before their opponent can, the probability of winning the game is high for that team as the final goal is certainly at reach.

Sry for such a long draft, i will review and polish it once my exam are over and will include some diagrams to give more clarity. Please give me your feedback thks!

It’s a long read. No shooting you down as new game types and objectives are sorely needed. However, what you are proposing is similar to GvG in Guild Wars 1.

Short answer: Bring back GvG.

GvG and HA FTW

No problem, just that i think pvp need something smaller than GvG though, if GvG isn’t 5v5 map( i didn’t play gw1) , i think a smaller group/team map is needed too.

You cant say deathmatch is wanted more. till its out there, people try it out, and actually do or don’t like it. its possible that people want deathmatch in theory but , if it actually went live would quickly find themselves not in love with it.

daydream.2938:

You cant say deathmatch is wanted more. till its out there, people try it out, and actually do or don’t like it. its possible that people want deathmatch in theory but , if it actually went live would quickly find themselves not in love with it.

I think it all depends on how it’s implemented. If you take the current conquest maps and do a score limit TDM it probably won’t be very exciting. However, if you put in say….6 Teams in a new map that is partitioned off to make the teams go head to head in 2’s and then as teams and the NPC that rezzes them wipes or when only 3 teams remain walls go down or floor shifts and slides all 3 remaining teams players into a pit and the team with the last player standing wins and moves onto the next round. They had a couple of maps in HA that were like this. Not the floors moving and dumping players but with walls that came down when a team wiped and their priest was killed.

As a community, we just want options. TDM may or may not be popular, but it’s still something other than conquest that players have an option to play. I don’t see a problem with releasing other game modes and if they don’t pan out, remove them. Just let the players decide what they want to play instead of shoving conquest down our throats. Conquest can still be the default tournament mode, but not everyone likes it and would like to play something else.

Snowballing like a moba probably won’t be a good thing.
MMOs don’t have to try to copy the MOBA mechanics because more people play them at the moment.

A way to kind of incorporate a bit of change as the game goes on though could be done by making the gates weaker as time goes on, but also lord worth slowly fewer points too. It’d stop the endgame from being nothing but a ‘who succeeds/kittenblocks lord’ like it is now, it’d make early game lord rushing an option, as well as mid/end.

The main thing though, is that a match’s setup should be allot different in terms of BO placement, getting rid of the 3 offset BOs of conquest Anet loves so much would bring a massive change to the game. Like making them linear, It’d make a more ‘tug of war with backcapping’. That would make pug play so much better as it brings an easily structured match, there isn’t zerging so much as evenly sized group on group clashes with small skirmishes on the side.

I did take snow balling into consideration, so i added extra stuff like special event that will appear to close the gap in power between team but drastically changes as it reaches a different point in the game. As most game ,you don’t want the game to drag on to a stale mate, so at some point players decision, team play, strategy and skill affect their chances of winning. So the game mode i propose lets players learn from their mistake at the start but makes every action count toward end. As now if you loses team fight/resources(as it will snowball for the stronger team at the end)/deaths(as respawn timer will get longer meaning death will make it harder to comeback.), it will help the opposing team end the game while they have a stronger lead.

Theplayboy.6417:

It’s a long read. No shooting you down as new game types and objectives are sorely needed. However, what you are proposing is similar to GvG in Guild Wars 1.

Short answer: Bring back GvG.

GvG and HA FTW

/Signed