Guild Wars 2

So I was thinking about this, and it seems to me that there are 2 types of builds that are considered OP.

1) Easy builds that offer too much reward
Simply put, a build that is very easy to use, and can be devastating. This is primarily best against new players, and can be beaten, but in some cases, can be simply just too easy to kill other players.

An example of this I would think is pew pew ranger. Long range, sit somewhere hard to get to, rapid fire all day, ect, ect. Beatable, but annoying. And to new players fighting new players, its easy mode.

2) Getting destroyed by a really good player using a hard to use build
This is the number one thing that is annoying when called “OP”. Some builds are quite difficult to master, but when you get them down, are devastating. But that’s the thing, its hard to use them. But when used well, you destroy everyone and lawl all day every day. “Hard to use” varies from player to player, and I think too many people get mad when they get roflstomped, but refuse to just try out the build, and simply complain.

There are examples, but the thread would be about whether they are hard to use, and it would turn into a QQ fest over the builds that people don’t like.

I think the REAL problem with the meta so far is that there aren’t MORE “hard to master, but amazing” builds, and more spread evenly across all classes. Builds shouldn’t be a reflection of how well you understand a wiki page. It should be skill. And when you die, it’s normally because they are simply better than you.

That’s what I have noticed, and its an actual pattern. And feel free to disagree or QQ.

I like how you used pew pew ranger as the example, one of the easier builds to kill in pvp whether you’re new to pvp or not and instead didn’t use something like cele d/d ele , cele sig necro , mesmer shatter and thief which are all much easier to kill people with than longbow ranger will ever be able to and have 10x the survivability , lol.

I mean I understand what you’re saying, but there are so many much better examples lol

Rangers leeching it is just anoying not OP, but we have classes/tools to protect against that.
And like Situations said they are very easy to kill, not only in pvp but also in wvw, all a player need is a gap closer and pressure(only a few auto atacks and ranger is dead), since most still use Lonbow at melee range….

Problem with high bursty is that they are easilly macroed, high burst should come due team work (via ganks, spikes) and not by pressing few keys.

The actual difference between an “easy” build and a “hard” build is so negligible, it really comes down to self-elitism: everyone (I’m no exception) wants to believe their build is harder to play than everyone else’s.

We should probably all get over ourselves. If having skill in this game were as hard as we make it out to be, no one would play it.

The examples don’t matter. Its the idea. Whats hard to use, and what isn’t is a matter of opinion, and the salt will continue to pour out until the people who get killed by better players stop posting and go practice not sucking at pvp.

Salamander.2504:

The actual difference between an “easy” build and a “hard” build is so negligible, it really comes down to self-elitism: everyone (I’m no exception) wants to believe their build is harder to play than everyone else’s.

We should probably all get over ourselves. If having skill in this game were as hard as we make it out to be, no one would play it.

There is no ’’easy’’ or ’’hard’’ builds, its all inside the risk management, if a build is risky but rewarding, you need to manage your risk so that you get rewarded without being punished for messing up, and that can only be done by mastering the build and understanding the most possible risk scenarios to avoid.

BUT! some builds have no risk to them and are rewarding, this is why we call these builds easy and OP, because they don’t need to learn to manage their risk since they don’t have any.

New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.

Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?

Phantom Master.9582:

Salamander.2504:

The actual difference between an “easy” build and a “hard” build is so negligible, it really comes down to self-elitism: everyone (I’m no exception) wants to believe their build is harder to play than everyone else’s.

We should probably all get over ourselves. If having skill in this game were as hard as we make it out to be, no one would play it.

There is no ’’easy’’ or ’’hard’’ builds, its all inside the risk management, if a build is risky but rewarding, you need to manage your risk so that you get rewarded without being punished for messing up, and that can only be done by mastering the build and understanding the most possible risk scenarios to avoid.

BUT! some builds have no risk to them and are rewarding, this is why we call these builds easy and OP, because they don’t need to learn to manage their risk since they don’t have any.

For example?

Eurantien.4632:

New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.

Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?

We simply don’t.

Morwath.9817:

Eurantien.4632:

New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.

Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?

We simply don’t.

Other successful games, such as Dota 2, balance around the veteran, top tier, players. Should the same not be done here?

Eurantien.4632:

Morwath.9817:

Eurantien.4632:

New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.

Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?

We simply don’t.

Other successful games, such as Dota 2, balance around the veteran, top tier, players. Should the same not be done here?

Obviously it should.
But my point was: nobody balances anything around anything in GW2.

The question of the so called op builds is there a counter. Its why i think the current pvp situation is ok. Necro counters the mesmer and ele meta builds. I feel like more teams will be more 1-1-1-1-1-1 teams since there are counters. No more 2 engy 2 eles 1 class tourneys.

Right now the best 3 builds is the cele/bunk necro and ele and a burst mesmer. After that teams can go anywhere. The only class really struggling to me is ranger but there are counters to other classes. Another class thats good vs the mesmer is a bunker guardian who can decap and cap the point while the mesmer it trying to kill him forcing the other team to get another player to help and kill him.

kdaddy.5431:

The question of the so called op builds is there a counter. Its why i think the current pvp situation is ok. Necro counters the mesmer and ele meta builds. I feel like more teams will be more 1-1-1-1-1-1 teams since there are counters. No more 2 engy 2 eles 1 class tourneys.

How does Necro counters Mesmer doing +1?

kdaddy.5431:

Right now the best 3 builds is the cele/bunk necro and ele and a burst mesmer. After that teams can go anywhere. The only class really struggling to me is ranger but there are counters to other classes. Another class thats good vs the mesmer is a bunker guardian who can decap and cap the point while the mesmer it trying to kill him forcing the other team to get another player to help and kill him.

How can Bunker Guardian decap and cap already guarded point?
Why would Mesmer try to kill Bunker Guard alone and waste time as +1 roaming profession, who even if can perform well in some 1v1, shouldn’t 1v1?

Eurantien.4632:

New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.

Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?

I agree pew pew ranger is an easy kill.

I also wouldn’t care if ANet deleted the class from gw2 for eternity. They are not fun to fight with or against. I enjoyed gw1 rangers 100x more.

Eurantien.4632:

New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.

Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?

You balance for both. For the veterans, you pay attention to detail and get it as close as possible. For new players, you only need to balance enough so that it doesn’t feel completely one-sided.

I wouldn’t say D/D ele or shatter Mesmer is really a “hard build” to use.
Just try them for an hr or 2 and you should start easily killing people with them.

Stop exaggerating the difficulty of certain builds. Most of them are easy. I think thief is actually harder to master than the above example I mentioned since they’re really high risk high reward, as oppose to the above low risk high reward builds.

As for ranger, it’s a medium risk medium reward mediocre build.

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

The question of the so called op builds is there a counter. Its why i think the current pvp situation is ok. Necro counters the mesmer and ele meta builds. I feel like more teams will be more 1-1-1-1-1-1 teams since there are counters. No more 2 engy 2 eles 1 class tourneys.

How does Necro counters Mesmer doing +1?

kdaddy.5431:

Right now the best 3 builds is the cele/bunk necro and ele and a burst mesmer. After that teams can go anywhere. The only class really struggling to me is ranger but there are counters to other classes. Another class thats good vs the mesmer is a bunker guardian who can decap and cap the point while the mesmer it trying to kill him forcing the other team to get another player to help and kill him.

How can Bunker Guardian decap and cap already guarded point?
Why would Mesmer try to kill Bunker Guard alone and waste time as +1 roaming profession, who even if can perform well in some 1v1, shouldn’t 1v1?

you said in a earlier statement that guild wars 2 doesnt balance around anything. My point is to the burst mesmers/eles/thieves that there are counters to them forcing +1 match ups which gives teammates a chance to get a quick kill if there burst or another bunker character to take another point for holding.

Also if your practicing enough with blocks knock backs and the opponent uses invisibility among other non point holding skills to win fights. You as a bunker can run to a point where a thief/mesmer are and get a decap and cap potentially.

Salamander.2504:

The actual difference between an “easy” build and a “hard” build is so negligible, it really comes down to self-elitism: everyone (I’m no exception) wants to believe their build is harder to play than everyone else’s.

We should probably all get over ourselves. If having skill in this game were as hard as we make it out to be, no one would play it.