Guild Wars 2

So far, I would like to say thanks to the previous PvP Balance Designer “Roy” because 70% of my warrior suggestion came true.

1. Adrenaline should considered a “use” while warrior missing the burst skills.
2. Cleansing Ire shouldn’t proc when warrior missing the burst skills while the adrenaline will be used.
3. Impale is overpowered, should find a way to make “Torment” fit a better position for a real condi damage spec, shouldn’t shine when players using pure power spec.

I would say almost 100% of them came true, I’m looking forward for it. At least we all know that we cannot spend our burst skills anymore due to the reasonable punishment.

Next, I would like to talk about several changes that I’m considering with.
1. Greatsword changes.
– Greatsword, a powerful weapon in PvE, that never shine in PvP after “Quickness” nerf. Should not receive any kind of damage nerf.

As a player that always been playing and trying to create some possibility builds for Greatsword, I would have to say that the only reason now to pick up Greatsword is its mobility. The only reliable damage source from Greatsword is “Whirlwind Attack”, which isn’t that reliable while other skills cannot do any big damage in high tier level PvP. Let me talk about Greatsword from its skills individually. (only from a PvP perspective)

1. Hundred Blade- This skill looks pretty strong from the description, but it’s actually very useless either in team fights, or in 1v1s. If you want to play with Greatsword in PvP, you must build yourself into Pure Berserker Spec in order to pull out its damage value. That means the build diversity for Greatsword is very small. This skills is only “a little bit useful” against people whoever trying to ress someone in downstates. Like I said its just “a little bit useful” because we all know that poison is the only thing that can counter plays the ress/ress utilities.

Conclusion: Hundred Blade shouldn’t receive any kind of nerf. Instead of nerfs, it should receive some loves like dmg increase or cast time decrease like you just did to the Rapid Fire on Ranger’s longbow.

2. Whirlwind Attack- The only skill on Greatsword that is quiet useful in team fights and 1v1s. Like I said in previous paragraph, the only reliable damage on this weapon while its not really reliable sometimes.

Conclusion: Whirlwind Attack should remain the same as now. This skill is reward/risk now and it’s in a good spot.

3. New Arcing Slice- The new version of Arcing Slice looks pretty good. The only unreasonable thing is it’s range is kind of small, it will hardly hit anything unless you are in a zerg or fighting on the point. So far this skill looks pretty awesome, but I cannot give any kind of comment before I actually try it out by myself.

2. Adrenaline Dismiss when players out of combat-
I actually like this change, but this change will impact skill players that always remember to build their adrenaline while they are still in combat. For me as an example, I always try to swap weapon to build my adrenaline while I was trying to rotate from A point to B point, which I believe many warriors don’t do. This change will impact some “smart plays” from players. It will also impact some skills such as “Signet of Fury”, “Healing Surge”. These skills are already not popular, and this changes will make these skills even more useless.

From my perspective, if you are trying to balance classes from this kind of situation, as a sarcasm, I will suggest that you also need to dismiss Necromancer’s Life Force while out of combat.

So far that’s what I have on my note, I really appreciated your reading. Although my grammar sucks, my content is really worth reading from a balance perspective.

Regards.

Anas Tarcis

I dont get it wouldnt less adrenaline mean more usage of signet of fury and healing surge?

Necromancer’s Life Force, first of, should be more dynamic and act more like a Resource than second life bar. I’d say, reduce it by 30-40% but increase overall LF generation by 60-75% and make 6-10 abilities cost Life Force to use, with maybe some costs to buff 1-5 skills too. Then we can make a engaging gameplay.

srsly the necro comment…..

They already lose 4 percent deathshroud per second while in it. If you were completely serious about that comment then they would have to re-design a huge part of deathshroud and several traits for balance purposes.

also don’t compare class mechanics to another class. Its pointless.

quit your complaining.

If we’re losing LF out of combat can we get Zerker stance, Endure pain, Healing Signet, Adrenal Health, Heavy Armor and decent self boon application to compensate?

That’d be close to a fair trade then since we’d have OTHER FORMS OF DAMAGE MITIGATION.

PS- Play professions besides your own before making asinine comments.

If you want to buff Greatsword damage, you need to nerf its mobility.

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

First of all, I did not beg or complain. Most of those warrior nerfs are basically the idea I discussed with pre-balance designer Roy.

Reply to Kirakulos: I do play Necromancer myself. I basically play all classes in this game except ranger. I main warrior and I do not defend my own class like ostricheggs or anyone else. All these content are 100% for a better game balancing.

Like I said, if the balance team are more towards to criticize Classes System, They should make some reasonable reason to make these changes.

Warrior: Adrenaline Decay when out of combat- Makes sense since adrenaline shouldn’t exist while you are not fighting.

Mesmer: Clones Dismiss when out of combat- Makes sense too since you shouldn’t need anything to protect you while you are not fighting.

Necromancer: Life Force still exist when out of combat- Is it really make any sense?

Your call, but my main target is focusing on warrior balancing, not Necromancer.

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

" did you know you can stay in combat by dropping from ledges, attacking certain objects in kyhlo and by hitting npcs, doors and many other methods of staying in combat while swapping weapons to gain more adrenaline?"

Srsly…. stop your crap.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

" did you know you can stay in combat by dropping from ledges, attacking certain objects in kyhlo and by hitting npcs, doors and many other methods of staying in combat while swapping weapons to gain more adrenaline?"

Srsly…. stop your crap.

Okay? Now, go do that on Legacy of Foefire or Forest of Niflhel. Without leaps.

Nice try though, casual.

Amir.1570:

JinDaVikk.7291:

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

" did you know you can stay in combat by dropping from ledges, attacking certain objects in kyhlo and by hitting npcs, doors and many other methods of staying in combat while swapping weapons to gain more adrenaline?"

Srsly…. stop your crap.

Okay? Now, go do that on Legacy of Foefire or Forest of Niflhel. Without leaps.

Nice try though, casual.

Wow…you just used casual as an insult…

12 YEAR OLD DETECTED.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

" did you know you can stay in combat by dropping from ledges, attacking certain objects in kyhlo and by hitting npcs, doors and many other methods of staying in combat while swapping weapons to gain more adrenaline?"

Srsly…. stop your crap.

Looks like you don’t understand what kind of “structures” I’m talking about.

Guess I used the wrong word. I am fully aware you can attack buildings as well.

Anastasis.7258:

From my perspective, if you are trying to balance classes from this kind of situation, I will suggest that you also need to dismiss Necromancer’s Life Force while out of combat.

Adrenaline was always supposed to degenerate outside of combat, it just wasn’t working as it was supposed to.

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

Warrior: Adrenaline Decay when out of combat- Makes sense since adrenaline shouldn’t exist while you are not fighting.

Mesmer: Clones Dismiss when out of combat- Makes sense too since you shouldn’t need anything to protect you while you are not fighting.

Necromancer: Life Force still exist when out of combat- Is it really make any sense?

Your call, but my main target is focusing on warrior balancing, not Necromancer.

Life force is HP to us. And its more than that, imagine if after every fight you lost every defensive boon, and every defensive ability you have went on full CD and stayed on full CD until the fight started, at which point it started counting down. That is what you are saying Necromancer LF should do, that the only significant defensive mechanic an entire profession receives should be completely inaccessible to them until they’ve won a fight… except then they lose it all.

We don’t have abilities that give us full LF in a single press regarldess of situation (zerker stance).
We don’t have vigor.
We don’t have blocks.
We don’t have extra evades.
We don’t have multiple semi-immunities.
We don’t have invulnerabilities.
We have nothing except a lot of HP, ways to attempt to replenish it, and a few ways to make attacks take slightly less HP than normal, and our full HP isn’t even available to us until we build it in combat by directly interacting with our enemies (aka, things that have counterplay). Ever wonder why Necromancer has been the #1 focus target in teamfights since people learned what focus fire is? It sure as hell isn’t because LF is so amazing we’re just face-tanking through all that damage (and face-tanking is all we have).

Oh and did I mention that we have the only defensive mechanic in the game that actively negates not only team support, but directly invalidates an entire trait line of the very profession it belongs to?

There are valid complaints about Necromancers and valid nerfs to be proposed, but this is absolutely an awful one. There are cases where comparing cross professions is acceptable or helpful, this is absolutely not one of them, unless you start comparing everything.

a t s e.9614:

Lol Tarcis is right , how is that fair a necro can keeps his life force out of combat ? Considering life force is even stronger than adrenaline , +15k total HP is massive.
If they gonna remove adrenaline while out of comabat then do the same with necro life force.

Lifeforce is basically the necros entire bag of tricks. It takes far longer to generate than adrenaline and isn’t even that amazing considering that it locks you out of heals/buffs/traits. It’s honestly quite stupid how many traits are linked to DS or useless while in DS. Deathshroud needed a rework at launch, like so many things, and instead they’ve continually tried to wedge it into everything. Back to the issue at hand, if you nerf lifeforce then you’ll also need to make sure that most of warriors traits and survivability are tied to adrenaline. Until then it’s apples to oranges where warriors have tons of survivability, damage, and mobility outside burst skills yet necros lack in every aspect without DS.

moi.4398:

I just made a whole paragraph about the necro change you have suggested but the previous post resume it perfectly .

On warrior : I agree with all you said.

I actually didn’t mean to suggest that lol… It’s kinda like a sarcasm.

Having life force degenerate while out of combat wouldnt be that bad if they made it easier to acquire. Just imo.

In b4 thread locked for going off topic.

Tarcis, you have to look at the greatsword changes as a whole, rather than individually.

Greatsword is getting a huge buff in the damage of the burst skill, which is also now AOE and easier to hit (and reliably proc Cleansing Ire). The new burst did about 5.8K damage to Heavy golems below 50%, compared to ~8K for eviscerate with same build. That is a TON of aoe damage. To prevent the weapon from becoming too strong, they are taking some of the damage off of 100B and whirlwind. Thus they are moving some damage between skills, with the net effect being higher dps. It is a massive net buff imo. ROM was pretty psyched about it.

Also, making life force easier to attain but degenerate OOC is a good suggestion actually. It would be a buff to necros as they are toast when caught w/o LF, but monsters when they manage to get to full LF.

BlackBeard.2873:

Tarcis, you have to look at the greatsword changes as a whole, rather than individually.

Greatsword is getting a huge buff in the damage of the burst skill, which is also now AOE and easier to hit (and reliably proc Cleansing Ire). The new burst did about 5.8K damage to Heavy golems below 50%, compared to ~8K for eviscerate with same build. That is a TON of aoe damage. To prevent the weapon from becoming too strong, they are taking some of the damage off of 100B and whirlwind. Thus they are moving some damage between skills, with the net effect being higher dps. It is a massive net buff imo. ROM was pretty psyched about it.

Also, making life force easier to attain but degenerate OOC is a good suggestion actually. It would be a buff to necros as they are toast when caught w/o LF, but monsters when they manage to get to full LF.

Yes, I 100% agreed. I’m also psyched when I see the new burst skills. I know the overall dps from Greatsword will be buffed for sure. But my point is that if Hundred Blade and Whirlwind Attack deserved a nerf or not. Since Greatsword is already a not popular weapon in PvP.

lololololol 100b damage buff. Is this guy serious.

You’re complaining you need full berserker to do any damage, well obviously you haven’t played any other class on a power spec because I wish my ranger or necro could do any kind of damage.

So let me put it with you this way. GS/Mace can land a stun on a ranger and a full 100b from a zerker warrior on a 2.2k toughness ranger removes 60%+ of his HP.

60% of a bunker ranger’s HP. Not even a full signet build backstab does that, and an ele would need to crit all his 30+ sec cd bursts to approach that damage.

Moreover, warriors have by far the strongest autoattacks in the game, which mean the best sustained pressure. I wish my guardian hammer or ranger greatsword would even be doing the damage hammer autoattack does.

I swear some warriors and thieves should be FORCED to spend some months on a power ranger/necro before they go mouthing off about their poor weapons.

Woah woah woah, lets not get ahead of ourselves guys. The patch hasn’t even been released yet. They’re revamping one whole skill. I think we should let it sit for 6 months so the dust can settle first; it’s a lot to take in.

I am somewhat confused on why they nerfed the damage on 100b specifically, unless it was a PvE change (whoa, Anet thinking about PvE in balance?). Its a very difficult skill to land and requires very specific builds to make meaningful, it has a lot of counterplay built in, it seems a bit strange to nerf it.

BlackBeard.2873:

Also, making life force easier to attain but degenerate OOC is a good suggestion actually. It would be a buff to necros as they are toast when caught w/o LF, but monsters when they manage to get to full LF.

(Without derailing this too much, although I guess it was a “suggestion” of the OP and has kind of become a topic)
Few issues with that idea, mainly being that Necromancer is already the only profession with 100% counterable defenses that is extremely weak to burst, focus fire, and CC. We can’t gain LF without landing abilities or getting hit, can’t land abilities while CCed, and with no ways to avoid CC (remember our only options are to tank damage, and we haven’t built that up yet) we just kind of… take it.

The current system’s concept is fine, it just needs fine tuning.

Zenith.7301:

lololololol 100b damage buff. Is this guy serious.

You’re complaining you need full berserker to do any damage, well obviously you haven’t played any other class on a power spec because I wish my ranger or necro could do any kind of damage.

So let me put it with you this way. GS/Mace can land a stun on a ranger and a full 100b from a zerker warrior on a 2.2k toughness ranger removes 60%+ of his HP.

60% of a bunker ranger’s HP. Not even a full signet build backstab does that, and an ele would need to crit all his 30+ sec cd bursts to approach that damage.

Moreover, warriors have by far the strongest autoattacks in the game, which mean the best sustained pressure. I wish my guardian hammer or ranger greatsword would even be doing the damage hammer autoattack does.

I swear some warriors and thieves should be FORCED to spend some months on a power ranger/necro before they go mouthing off about their poor weapons.

Again, I’m drawing a big picture while you think I complain while not thinking about other classes. If you want me to talk everything with other classes, I can make it a book, I rather not to do that.

When I pointing out that Greatsword needs full berserker to pull out its dps value, that means I want more builds diversity in this game. I don’t want to see warriors that must have to play hambow or axe/sword bullcrap to be viable. It is obvious that every classes have some overpowered spec, and that what I don’t want to see.

If you really want to talk about mace gs warrior, I suggest you to play the spec to see how horrible it is. (Please don’t tell me it’s viable when you have successful moment in Hot Join or Solo Queue.) Of course, there are more horrible specs from other classes. BUT like I said, I do not want to spend my time to talk about every spec unless someone from balance team want me to do so.

Rym.1469:

Necromancer’s Life Force, first of, should be more dynamic and act more like a Resource than second life bar. I’d say, reduce it by 30-40% but increase overall LF generation by 60-75% and make 6-10 abilities cost Life Force to use, with maybe some costs to buff 1-5 skills too. Then we can make a engaging gameplay.

The total hp is already too low, bugged since the last patch that addressed necro DS. Your idea combined with tarcis silly idea would kill the necro for any type of game play.

If anything though, your side idea to increase life force generation is a good one. A better idea would be to apply life force generation for each weapon sets skills (not just one/two or just the auto).

Anastasis.7258:

Zenith.7301:

lololololol 100b damage buff. Is this guy serious.

You’re complaining you need full berserker to do any damage, well obviously you haven’t played any other class on a power spec because I wish my ranger or necro could do any kind of damage.

So let me put it with you this way. GS/Mace can land a stun on a ranger and a full 100b from a zerker warrior on a 2.2k toughness ranger removes 60%+ of his HP.

60% of a bunker ranger’s HP. Not even a full signet build backstab does that, and an ele would need to crit all his 30+ sec cd bursts to approach that damage.

Moreover, warriors have by far the strongest autoattacks in the game, which mean the best sustained pressure. I wish my guardian hammer or ranger greatsword would even be doing the damage hammer autoattack does.

I swear some warriors and thieves should be FORCED to spend some months on a power ranger/necro before they go mouthing off about their poor weapons.

Again, I’m drawing a big picture while you think I complain while not thinking about other classes. If you want me to talk everything with other classes, I can make it a book, I rather not to do that.

When I pointing out that Greatsword needs full berserker to pull out its dps value, that means I want more builds diversity in this game. I don’t want to see warriors that must have to play hambow or axe/sword bullcrap to be viable. It is obvious that every classes have some overpowered spec, and that what I don’t want to see.

If you really want to talk about mace gs warrior, I suggest you to play the spec to see how horrible it is. (Please don’t tell me it’s viable when you have successful moment in Hot Join or Solo Queue.) Of course, there are more horrible specs from other classes. BUT like I said, I do not want to spend my time to talk about every spec unless someone from balance team want me to do so.

As a member of the Pvp community, I agree greatsword warrior’s can have some efficiency in hotjoin/soloQ moments;however outside of this greatsword is a Pvp unfriendly weapon with a known number of bugged issues. The required set-ups beyond bull’s rush>100B are tricky to achieve against skilled players and execute in organised tpvp. When this is paired with a self rooting, long duration channel that overtly obvious and movement skills that often fail to hit even when within striking range and trip at the slightest bump in terrain will always keep greatsword far from being a solid and reliable weapon option in pvp. A lot of greatsword success is based in what errors the target makes, not how effectively it is used. Greatsword if anything needed more pvp love. The damage reduction is nonsensical. The movement of greatsword is also a non affair when winning pvp is based around capturing nodes and downing players. The day pvp becomes a sprinting race, then this will be a realistic concern..until then it is a mute point to address. There is multiple other professions who can, and do possess similar movement speeds. The greatest movement speed skills are the same ones that have overt failure rates because of poor pathing and terrain issues. When 2 of your damage skills are better used for movement than damage, that only underlines that greatsword was more in need of love than nerfs that no one was complaining about.

i completely agree with anas opinion here. i was surprise of the GS nerf its totally not nescessary. as a player who main warrior in both pvp but mainly in pve i feel like the warrior got a big nerf. the afrenaline nerf is one of them why? although the new GS burst skill is awesome, i like to save my adrenaline for berserker power and adrenal health trait. i always use signet of fury or berserker stance before charging so that i can have max adrenaline before combat started. im ok with all the warrior changes except GS nerf still a scratch in the head for me and a big facepalm. what are u thinking anet?

The Primary.6371:

Rym.1469:

Necromancer’s Life Force, first of, should be more dynamic and act more like a Resource than second life bar. I’d say, reduce it by 30-40% but increase overall LF generation by 60-75% and make 6-10 abilities cost Life Force to use, with maybe some costs to buff 1-5 skills too. Then we can make a engaging gameplay.

The total hp is already too low, bugged since the last patch that addressed necro DS. Your idea combined with tarcis silly idea would kill the necro for any type of game play.

If anything though, your side idea to increase life force generation is a good one. A better idea would be to apply life force generation for each weapon sets skills (not just one/two or just the auto).

What if skills from 6-0 in DS could give us that “attrition” ? Why if #6 converted LF to health, 7 give us a cap of damage we could take every second, draining LF for that and similar skills costing us LF but really rewarding good Resource management over the fight ? That would be actual attrition.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i completely agree with anas opinion here. i was surprise of the GS nerf its totally not nescessary. as a player who main warrior in both pvp but mainly in pve i feel like the warrior got a big nerf. the afrenaline nerf is one of them why? although the new GS burst skill is awesome, i like to save my adrenaline for berserker power and adrenal health trait. i always use signet of fury or berserker stance before charging so that i can have max adrenaline before combat started. im ok with all the warrior changes except GS nerf still a scratch in the head for me and a big facepalm. what are u thinking anet?

So as a PvE player, you haven’t heard all the complaints about how everything is just 100b or get out?

And to be honest, this isn’t much of a nerf as it is moving damage from the front end of the skill to the back end of the skill. You now have to successfully channel the whole skill in order to get the full benefit and that now requires more skill to pull off.

And Anastarcis, you’re complaining that Mace/Shield + GS is bad when the reality is, catching someone with a full mace stun and then 100-Blading their face into the floor isn’t instant 100 to 0 in many cases. Perfect build for risk and reward and the change to GS brings that to the forefront even more.

So in conclusion, I don’t agree with you.

Anastasis.7258:

So far, I would like to say thanks to the previous PvP Balance Designer “Roy” because 70% of my warrior suggestion came true.

1. Adrenaline should considered a “use” while warrior missing the burst skills.
2. Cleansing Ire shouldn’t proc when warrior missing the burst skills while the adrenaline will be used.
3. Impale is overpowered, should find a way to make “Torment” fit a better position for a real condi damage spec, shouldn’t shine when players using pure power spec.

I would say almost 100% of them came true, I’m looking forward for it. At least we all know that we cannot spend our burst skills anymore due to the reasonable punishment.

Next, I would like to talk about several changes that I’m considering with.
1. Greatsword changes.
– Greatsword, a powerful weapon in PvE, that never shine in PvP after “Quickness” nerf. Should not receive any kind of damage nerf.

As a player that always been playing and trying to create some possibility builds for Greatsword, I would have to say that the only reason now to pick up Greatsword is its mobility. The only reliable damage source from Greatsword is “Whirlwind Attack”, which isn’t that reliable while other skills cannot do any big damage in high tier level PvP. Let me talk about Greatsword from its skills individually. (only from a PvP perspective)

1. Hundred Blade- This skill looks pretty strong from the description, but it’s actually very useless either in team fights, or in 1v1s. If you want to play with Greatsword in PvP, you must build yourself into Pure Berserker Spec in order to pull out its damage value. This skills is only “a little bit useful” against people whoever trying to ress someone in downstates. Like I said its just “a little bit useful” because we all know that poison is the only thing that can counter plays the ress/ress utilities.

Conclusion: Hundred Blade shouldn’t receive any kind of nerf. Instead of nerfs, it should receive some loves like dmg increase or cast time decrease like you just did to the Rapid Fire on Ranger’s longbow.

2. Whirlwind Attack- The only skill on Greatsword that is quiet useful in team fights and 1v1s. Like I said in previous paragraph, the only reliable damage on this weapon while its not really reliable sometimes.

Conclusion: Whirlwind Attack should remain the same as now. This skill is reward/risk now and it’s in a good spot.

3. New Arcing Slice- The new version of Arcing Slice looks pretty good. The only unreasonable thing is it’s range is kind of small, it will hardly hit anything unless you are in a zerg or fighting on the point. So far this skill looks pretty awesome, but I cannot give any kind of comment before I actually try it out by myself.

2. Adrenaline Dismiss when players out of combat-
I actually like this change, but this change will impact skill players that always remember to build their adrenaline while they are still in combat. For me as an example, I always try to swap weapon to build my adrenaline while I was trying to rotate from A point to B point, which I believe many warriors don’t do. This change will impact some “smart plays” from players. It will also impact some skills such as “Signet of Fury”, “Healing Surge”. These skills are already not popular, and this changes will make these skills even more useless.

From my perspective, if you are trying to balance classes from this kind of situation, I will suggest that you also need to dismiss Necromancer’s Life Force while out of combat.

So far that’s what I have on my note, I really appreciated your reading. Although my grammar sucks, but my content is really worth reading from a balance perspective.

Regards.

Anas Tarcis

I have to say that this is why you shouldn’t have SPvP players trying to balance classes. In WvW greatsword is a great pick. The utility and mobility are key to surviving a lot of fights. You seriously want to increase 100b damage when if you’re already caught in it you’re basically dead? If anything 100b needs it’s damage reduced and then we can remove the root and allowed slow movement while using it to fit the mobility motif. Also don’t neglect the amount of damage a few hits of 100b can do, you don’t need to land it all. 100b is great for area denial from downed enemies or friendlies to chokepoints. Now they get an arcing slice that is basically going to destroy 5 people in an enemy zerg, the weapon is probably over the top now.

Honestly the warriors GS is one of the most solid weapons in the game. It might not be great for SPvP conquest but in other area’s of the game it’s great. I would MUCH rather the other 90% of weapons that are horribly composed be touched before anything further happens to warrior GS. I mean just look at power necros, their weapon set is DS #1 :P

When I first read the changes i was really happy. If Cleansing Ire would proc reliably on every warrior weapon, then that would open up for build diversity and weapon choice. But since it don’t, warrior will be forced into hammer/longbow for reliable cleanse.

Mace auto attack change was good, as it was holding back the weapon, but kinda pointless now with the adrenalin change.

Impale needed a nerf, no arguing that.

The new arching slice looks good, cast time is low enough so its not terrible to land.

Rest of the changes is kinda meh.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i completely agree with anas opinion here. i was surprise of the GS nerf its totally not nescessary. as a player who main warrior in both pvp but mainly in pve i feel like the warrior got a big nerf.

But you aren’t looking at the GS changes all together. You are losing 5% damage on the 2 and 3 skills, and getting WAY MORE damage on the burst skill. There should probably be a bigger reduction in those skills given how much stronger they have made the burst skill.

You can’t just complain about the nerfs while dismissing the massive buffs attached to the same weapon. Its a package deal. If all they did was buff the burst, its likely that weapon would be OP. But then again, it is warrior, so maybe you are used to Anet just giving you the world?

Distaste.4801:

I agree, WvW and PvP are different story.
But, I would like to say in WvW, every weapons are viable due to the player skill base. (You maybe may not like to hear this but that’s what imo).

If you are balancing things from WvW perspective, this game will not be successful in anytime soon. I also do some WvW because my guild is actually a WvW based guild. (APeX Prime). I know there are several metas in GvG, but so far I see a lot different builds on warrior such as ppl using Rifle to killshot. Like I said, in WvW or GvG, everything might be viable due to its zergness and lack of player individual skills.

Other than that, I agree with your Greatsword mobility is overpowered in WvW. But have you think about why it’s overpowered in WvW? Because in WvW you have food effect that helps you to get 93% reduction on cripple, chill, and immobilize, and these conditions are the thing to counter Greatsword’s mobile skills.

there is a distinct difference between 100b and Rapid Fire (not talking about the weapons and one being ranged other being melee).

100b in and of itself is possible to define AS A BURST.
Rapid Fire in and of itself, in its current state, is worse then mid range AA DPS (500-900). Which is rather pathetic.

There is only ever 2 incentives to use rapid fire – to “chase” enemies through stealth. or to get good DPS at close range. 100b, regardless of situation, will be a burst. because its damage during those 3-4 seconds of casting is higher then what the AA can do in similar duration.

The Change to arching slice, is not there cuz of 100b nerf at all. The more i think of it, the more my own thesis makes sense. The change to Arching Slice was made solely so that the already horrible GS burst would be less horrible with the coming adrenaline change. In order to keep GS DPS from getting “out of hand” compared to other classes in PvE mostly, they nerfed 100b and whirling attack to maintain slightly higher, DPS under certain circumstances.

GS + sword mobility should be addressed. Best way to do this is add a much longer animation (slower) and a longer aftercast to GS 3, GS 5 and Sword 2. This means that while you can travel just as long, with the same CD’s, you will have a “slower” skill rotation that will eventually slow you down compared to other professions with faster animations and lower or no aftercast.

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

First of all, I did not beg or complain. Most of those warrior nerfs are basically the idea I discussed with pre-balance designer Roy.

Reply to Kirakulos: I do play Necromancer myself. I basically play all classes in this game except ranger. I main warrior and I do not defend my own class like ostricheggs or anyone else. All these content are 100% for a better game balancing.

Like I said, if the balance team are more towards to criticize Classes System, They should make some reasonable reason to make these changes.

Warrior: Adrenaline Decay when out of combat- Makes sense since adrenaline shouldn’t exist while you are not fighting.

Mesmer: Clones Dismiss when out of combat- Makes sense too since you shouldn’t need anything to protect you while you are not fighting.

Necromancer: Life Force still exist when out of combat- Is it really make any sense?

Your call, but my main target is focusing on warrior balancing, not Necromancer.

Very primitive logic that is quite surprising coming from an experienced player.

Anybody with even a little experience in MMOs knows you can’t compare 1 ability from one profession and use the same logic across the board. It doesn’t work that way and it’s shocking if you don’t know that.

Secondly, your “example” for a necro is even more absurd. Khylo isn’t the only map in rotation and are you saying necros should cc themselves and pound on a structure just to build enough life force so they are equal to other professions?

I’ll make the logic real simple for you to process.

Take a warrior and necro in a duel and make it where neither can use adrenaline or LF. What do you think would happen?

Remember, a necro has no stability, no block, no evades, no invuln, no vigor, no aegis, no stealth, limited mobility, and is at the bottom for dodges. Take away LF and you have the most kitten class ever created in MMO history (and that’s actually how necro’s start matches!)

Yet…your logic saw fit to equate LF to adrenaline???

You are aware that you can generate adrenaline passively right?

Using your EXACT same logic in reverse, Necros could say they also need an ability to generate LF passively.

Hopefully you see the sheer folly of your argument by now

+1 for necromancer lifeforce decaying out of combat

SPESHAL.9106:

Anastasis.7258:

For people who were trying to defend Nerco Life Force. Do you know that you can build your Life Force for free by hitting some specific structures in Khylo?

First of all, I did not beg or complain. Most of those warrior nerfs are basically the idea I discussed with pre-balance designer Roy.

Reply to Kirakulos: I do play Necromancer myself. I basically play all classes in this game except ranger. I main warrior and I do not defend my own class like ostricheggs or anyone else. All these content are 100% for a better game balancing.

Like I said, if the balance team are more towards to criticize Classes System, They should make some reasonable reason to make these changes.

Warrior: Adrenaline Decay when out of combat- Makes sense since adrenaline shouldn’t exist while you are not fighting.

Mesmer: Clones Dismiss when out of combat- Makes sense too since you shouldn’t need anything to protect you while you are not fighting.

Necromancer: Life Force still exist when out of combat- Is it really make any sense?

Your call, but my main target is focusing on warrior balancing, not Necromancer.

Very primitive logic that is quite surprising coming from an experienced player.

Anybody with even a little experience in MMOs knows you can’t compare 1 ability from one profession and use the same logic across the board. It doesn’t work that way and it’s shocking if you don’t know that.

Secondly, your “example” for a necro is even more absurd. Khylo isn’t the only map in rotation and are you saying necros should cc themselves and pound on a structure just to build enough life force so they are equal to other professions?

I’ll make the logic real simple for you to process.

Take a warrior and necro in a duel and make it where neither can use adrenaline or LF. What do you think would happen?

Remember, a necro has no stability, no block, no evades, no invuln, no vigor, no aegis, no stealth, limited mobility, and is at the bottom for dodges. Take away LF and you have the most kitten class ever created in MMO history (and that’s actually how necro’s start matches!)

Yet…your logic saw fit to equate LF to adrenaline???

You are aware that you can generate adrenaline passively right?

Using your EXACT same logic in reverse, Necros could say they also need an ability to generate LF passively.

Hopefully you see the sheer folly of your argument by now

Like I said in previous replies. It’s a sarcasm for comparing with adrenaline and Life force.

But if you really want me to compare these 2 systems, I can quiet see some similar places.

Warrior’s job is to build their adrenaline in combat in order to make some plays, correct?

Mesmer’s job is to build their clones in combat in order to make some plays? correct?

Then, from that logic, Necro’s job is to build their Life force in combat in order to make some plays.

So far, I didn’t mean to compare any skills. I am talking from the designer’s logic, that if you are balancing thing from those perspective I just said, then they should focusing on reworking all those systems including Necro’s Life Force system. (Give them more way to obtain life force instead of grabbing the leftover LF to next fight.)

Also, if you really want to compare Adrenaline and Life Force, I would say LF system > Adrenaline if you know how to play around with it.

Again, it’s a sarcasm, I never meant to compare any skills. If you really want to talk about Necro or defend for Necro, I’m telling you don’t worry they will not nerf them since no one were QQing about Nerco on the forum. (Even some ppl already know Nercos are broken).

And for the Free Life Force from structures in Kyhlo, I mean some bugs that you only need to use your staff #1 skills to hit some unhitable building in kyhlo, then you can pretty much get 100% Life Force in 3 seconds.

Anastasis.7258:

It’s a sarcasm

You keep using that word, I do not think you know what it means

Chaith.8256:

Anastasis.7258:

It’s a sarcasm

You keep using that word, I do not think you know what it means

Probably, my english isn’t that superior like you. please stay on the topic.

Guys, he made a joke, it hit a little too close to home for a lot of us Necros, let’s move on, it was just a joke.

Anastasis.7258:

Distaste.4801:

I agree, WvW and PvP are different story.
But, I would like to say in WvW, every weapons are viable due to the player skill base. (You maybe may not like to hear this but that’s what imo).

If you are balancing things from WvW perspective, this game will not be successful in anytime soon. I also do some WvW because my guild is actually a WvW based guild. (APeX Prime). I know there are several metas in GvG, but so far I see a lot different builds on warrior such as ppl using Rifle to killshot. Like I said, in WvW or GvG, everything might be viable due to its zergness and lack of player individual skills.

Other than that, I agree with your Greatsword mobility is overpowered in WvW. But have you think about why it’s overpowered in WvW? Because in WvW you have food effect that helps you to get 93% reduction on cripple, chill, and immobilize, and these conditions are the thing to counter Greatsword’s mobile skills.

The opposite is also true of SPvP balance, it’s been hurting this game for a long time. We can’t get big class revamps because of how it might shake up the precious meta. There is a reason that the saying about shaving a few skills and waiting a few months to see how it impacts the meta has been satirized. To this point the game has been largely balanced for SPvP and I can’t say it’s been to the betterment of the game. I don’t think balancing for WvW or PvE would be any more or less harmful. Honestly, the devs would probably do better to make SPvP = WvW as far as possible stats/buffs, then at least balance would be on an even playing field. I’d say balance for each mode separately, but then it might take years for a single balance patch.

You also need to look at the future, sometime(2 years :P) there might be a SPvP gamemode that favors mobility more than tanking on a point. Are we then going to throw all the old SPvP balance changes out the window that didn’t take mobility into account? That’s my problem with SPvP based balancing. We are basically balancing all the classes around either standing on a point, taking a point, or hunting people the short distance between those points. More than a few builds are considered OP simply because of sitting on the point and the need to assault it. Take turret engis, they can be hard to deal with because you need to cap the point, in WvW if I see a load of turrets I just avoid them. Same thing for rangers, in SPvP they were good but outside? Not so much.

Lastly, warrior GS isn’t OP because of food. Even without the food and even dogged march it provides a large amount of mobility while still packing the damage. Without the 96% reduction the warrior using a GS still has more mobility than probably 90% of all builds on all classes. The 96% reduction just throws warrior in general over the top and is exactly why it’s a preferred class. It also serves to prove my point above, SPvP based balancing is also hurting other parts of the game. 96% reduction shouldn’t be possible, but the focus is SPvP so who cares what’s possible in WvW right?

Hey, I thought Tarcis’ s post was really well thought out and well reasoned. Not everyone will agree with his opinions and that’s fine, that’s why it’s an opinion, so let’s keep things civil shall we?

I happen to agree with the idea that adrenaline shouldn’t drain immediately once out of combat for the fact that adrenaline building utilities are already not super great and this change just makes them worse. I think the warrior changes are all pretty huge for pvp and I wouldn’t mind seeing them hold off on this particular one until they see how the other changes affect their spot in the meta game first.

On the other hand though I do like the general direction that they are going with these changes (bigger punishment for mistakes, more counterplay). If you were behind most of these ideas, good job Tarcis. Would love to see more skills and traits for other classes heading this way going forward.

@Distate

Thats why you separate balance throughout the different game modes(pve/pvp/wvw). I could make the exact same argument against you. If balance was made around wvw, largescalefights, gvg, then it would completely destroy the balance of PvP. Condi damage is not viable in large scale fights and if you tried to balance the game so it was, by buffing condi damage and removing the entire condi cap for every mode in the game, then it would change wvw/pve but completely break spvp. GS is good for roaming/dps warrior in WvW simply because of its mobility.

In tPvP its different. Its easier to land GS skills in large scale combat because you can’t expect one person to notice they are about to get whirlwinded/rushed in the middle a hundred animations going off by different players.

You are acting like tarcis is narrow minded when you’re literally doing the exact same thing as him

Plus, for someone who plays wvw so much why would you actually think the devs would spend more or equal amounts of time balancing wvw compared to spvp? They don’t, and it won’t ever be that way.

cymerdown.4103:

Hey, I thought Tarcis’ s post was really well thought out and well reasoned. Not everyone will agree with his opinions and that’s fine, that’s why it’s an opinion, so let’s keep things civil shall we?

Good guy Ken has a good head on his shoulders.

Not sure how valid this suggestion is
I have no idea how re-arranging a game engine works

But I’ve always thought that 100b should allow walking during the animation
And Whirling Attack should only move as far as where you ground target
This would allow much more accuracy for Greatsword play in TPvP

Other than that, I agree with the suggested numeric changes to Greatsword

So combustive shot won’t proc cleansing ire anymore if it misses? Or it will still proc it after changes?

Demon.2430:

So combustive shot won’t proc cleansing ire anymore if it misses? Or it will still proc it after changes?

It should continue to proc CI because it has a field atached to the skill. Other f1 burst skills dont deploy any field so its normal if they miss to dont proc CI.

Then its gonna be the same cause now if you miss an attack it doesnt proc CI, but f1 longbow always procs CI.

Seriously tarcis. As someone who has played necro for as much, maybe more than you have played warrior that “balance” sugestion was uncalled for. Necros have long cooldowns, no vigor, and difficult disengage. DS gives us access to more skills we need on shorter cooldown. Skills that allow us to peel off enemies and honestly the best engage combo if on a hurry. Necromancers are not warriors, we cannot swap weapons every 5 secs, ee dont become invulnerable every 40-60 secs + proc and we cannot ww away every 8 secs when its rough. We cannot turn on stability when a hambow begins his wombo combo with zerker, we have to use our 48-60 sec stunbreak (god bless flesh wurm btw). Necros need fixes, yes, but taking away the survivability of the super smash bros punch bag of gw2 is not the way. Give me back pre dhuumfire necro with 4 boonstrip corrupt boon and path of corruption and il be happy. Power necro could use a lf build nerf

I took the time to write this because unlike most players the devs actually listen to you and i dont want them to take note of that sugestion.

Edit: saw u were just kidding. Btw theres a certain box for lf in khylo too… and a certain wall in skyhammer, and niflhell…

cymerdown.4103:

Hey, I thought Tarcis’ s post was really well thought out and well reasoned. Not everyone will agree with his opinions and that’s fine, that’s why it’s an opinion, so let’s keep things civil shall we?

I happen to agree with the idea that adrenaline shouldn’t drain immediately once out of combat for the fact that adrenaline building utilities are already not super great and this change just makes them worse. I think the warrior changes are all pretty huge for pvp and I wouldn’t mind seeing them hold off on this particular one until they see how the other changes affect their spot in the meta game first.

On the other hand though I do like the general direction that they are going with these changes (bigger punishment for mistakes, more counterplay). If you were behind most of these ideas, good job Tarcis. Would love to see more skills and traits for other classes heading this way going forward.

Nope, because if they hold off “to see how things settle” it will be at least 6-7 months before the change is pushed through. Or in fact it probably will just never happen even if it should. Adrenaline should logically drain out of combat.

Nemiros.3590:

Seriously tarcis. As someone who has played necro for as much, maybe more than you have played warrior that “balance” sugestion was uncalled for. Necros have long cooldowns, no vigor, and difficult disengage. DS gives us access to more skills we need on shorter cooldown. Skills that allow us to peel off enemies and honestly the best engage combo if on a hurry. Necromancers are not warriors, we cannot swap weapons every 5 secs, ee dont become invulnerable every 40-60 secs + proc and we cannot ww away every 8 secs when its rough. We cannot turn on stability when a hambow begins his wombo combo with zerker, we have to use our 48-60 sec stunbreak (god bless flesh wurm btw). Necros need fixes, yes, but taking away the survivability of the super smash bros punch bag of gw2 is not the way. Give me back pre dhuumfire necro with 4 boonstrip corrupt boon and path of corruption and il be happy. Power necro could use a lf build nerf

I took the time to write this because unlike most players the devs actually listen to you and i dont want them to take note of that sugestion.

Ha, only just read this guy thinks necro LF should reduce out of combat. Thats really funny. It already has the least sustain in the game

Nemiros.3590:

Seriously tarcis. As someone who has played necro for as much, maybe more than you have played warrior that “balance” sugestion was uncalled for. Necros have long cooldowns, no vigor, and difficult disengage. DS gives us access to more skills we need on shorter cooldown. Skills that allow us to peel off enemies and honestly the best engage combo if on a hurry. Necromancers are not warriors, we cannot swap weapons every 5 secs, ee dont become invulnerable every 40-60 secs + proc and we cannot ww away every 8 secs when its rough. We cannot turn on stability when a hambow begins his wombo combo with zerker, we have to use our 48-60 sec stunbreak (god bless flesh wurm btw). Necros need fixes, yes, but taking away the survivability of the super smash bros punch bag of gw2 is not the way. Give me back pre dhuumfire necro with 4 boonstrip corrupt boon and path of corruption and il be happy. Power necro could use a lf build nerf

I took the time to write this because unlike most players the devs actually listen to you and i dont want them to take note of that sugestion.

If they listen to people with ideas like necro LF should degen out of combat then I think that explains why the pvp in this game has been on life support for years now!

And on greatsword. Greatsword is already OP. Just because all the other weapons warrior gets are even more broken doesn’t mean it is bad. If it was on most other classes it would be a strong weapon with mobility and dps.