Guild Wars 2

Do you believe Anet devs are essentially pushing towards players to play more condition builds rather than Zerk builds because they’re easier to play? Boons such as protection and condition’s such as Fumble and Confusion are extremely powerful. It often times makes Zerk classes render useless even with constant clears; at least in my opinion. Conditions are very powerful because they tick damage over time where Zerk combos come from set up of stuns , dazes , lock downs, or hard hitting burst skills. Conditions can also be applied rather easy with little effort , and allow for “tankier” builds to sustain against zerk classes often times ; even to the point it feels like Zerk is being counter-played by condition builds. There’s no balance within condition builds in my opinion. Still be tanky and deal out damage with little to no effort ? So what do you think ? Is it a rock, paper, scissors kinda world ?

I hope not. Condition builds are easier to play right now. I primarily blame HoT specs and sigils for this.

There are 2 attributes that affect condition damage.
There are 3 that affect power damage.

On the defensive side, you have weakness to negate power damage, but there is no condition you can inflict on condition users to negate condition damage.

Conditions can often be applied passively. Power damage often cannot, and has no damage over time of any kind.

So, do the math. You need fewer points in fewer attributes to reach maximum condition damage. You need one condition to negate power damage. Which would you choose?

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

Anet has encouraged condition builds because they were out of the meta. The reason for that was that running a condition build would just increase the time per kill while running power builds allows you to delete everyone, and were pretty much useless in teamfights. In order to solve it they have created power hate, so ppl can tank and heal more than others can dish out dmg, making condi builds a must in order to kill ppl.

Conditions are not broken, power hate is. Do you guys know how much more better power reaper is over condi reaper for instance? You can delete squishy builds by using RS#2 alone, but good job going through blocks, evades, protection, weakness, dmg mitigations, etc.

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

Axe/shield – gs is a hardcounter against condi warri for sure,do need berserk util.

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi builds are easier to play?

Hardly. They are almost the same.

Condi has only 2 stats to affects its damage?

Condi damage, duration? Yea true. But not really crit helps a lot too but whatever. And the damage in the end is still in favor or power or its really close.

I think the reason that only 3 condi meta builds exist is not because of the condi but other things. Warrior is not really a threat because of the condi mostly because they live forever and are very forgiving to play. Necro is due to all the boons there are to corrupt and transfer plus they extremly tanky nature. And mesmers are just kittened up no matter their spec.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Power warrior and DH are not meta. Condi chrono is not countered by any power build. Thats a straight up lie. Daredevil is NOT a hard counter to a reaper. The match up depends on how much shroud the necro has vs how many CDS the thief has. Also any decent necro will kill lower skilled thieves and last long enough for a +1 in help.

Thank you for confirming that these builds are not hard counteted

I do believe that Anet is forcing players to run condi build. They make it very clear pre-HOT they want to get rid off zerker builds " It’s not healthy for the game"

I just think they are encouraging tank. Not necessarily condi but just tank. (In the case of scrapper, druid, tempest, etc.)

Just for fun…

4 condi-reliant +1 support
-vs-
4 power-reliant +1 support

Who wins, and why?

Assuming:
1) Equal skill amongst all players
2) No profession stacking
3) No secondary map mechanics

And if it helps, you also can assume no profession swapping (or knowledge of opponent’s team build).

Bonus: How might the outcome change for beginner, intermediate, and elite players?
(Again, assuming equal skill in each case.)

There are only 3 viable condition/Hybrid classes that are present in the meta atm

Hybrid/Condition Mesmer. cuz the zerker and bunker variants were made nonviable and it is still run thanks to its unparalleled Portal utility

Condition Reaper. Boons are handed out like Candy which calls for corruptions. No matter how hard the spec is nerfed it will always be there thanks to the power creep. Besides Power Necro/Reaaper was never ever viable! Anet has seen to it many times in the past. This is the only playable build available to the class and it is still squishy and easily focused but nontheless it can never touch a power build and expect to kill anything.

Condition/Hybrid Warrior. It is popular thanks to how overloaded with effects Skullgrinder is which will force anyone to burn cooldowns or backoff if hit with it, Can keep a point contested with all the passive sustain. Revs Scrappers and Thieves wont snatch the point from it in a reasonable time frame. Power builds are also an option and could put a dent into their condition based counter parts. Reapers are a free kill for either power or condition berserker.

No other condition builds are viable atm. Condition ranger, guards, Engis are no longer viable due to their lack of proper sustain and defense to fight off the HoT power creep and you wont be seeing them almost at all.

It is not that Anet has directly promoted Condition builds to your faces but they have introduced kits that simply pack too much of everything. too much defense, too much passive damage, too much passive damage reduction, too much anti-cc, too much sustain, too much mobility, too much boons. try eating through all that with a pure power Ele, druid, reaper, guard or ranger. yeah it is not going to happen and even if it somehow did a random rev, scrapper or daredevil will be shredding your faces to pieces or the auramancer/druid would heal up their teamamtes all your damage would be meaningless and these builds dont stand a chance standing on point. the only thing left is either to be a power bunker/bruiser or a condition damage dealer. there are no condi bunkers. even condition warriors.

if you want fun gimmicky and zerkery builds back on the menu then it is Anet who should be communicating their intentions with all the power damage hate they have introduced all around and killing power build and making condition damage a must to wear down the tankier specs.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi bezerker is counter by power bezerker?? i don’t think you know what you are saying.

• Condi Berserker is definitely hard countered by “the proper” Power Berserker. No question about this. If you argue this, you must not have played diamond + this season or taken the time to train vs. better players in 1v1.
• Reapers “any spec” are hard countered by properly played Daredevils. All they have to do is disengage your reaper shroud, let it burn out or turn off and come back in for a burst. A Reaper, even a good one, cannot hope to kill a Daredevil that is trying hard. If you argue this, you’ve played against bad DDs ^^
• Condi Chronomancer struggles the most against a good CC/physical burst for obvious reasons. If you argue this, now you’re just trolling.

With all due respect to those with arguments: Did you even play in this last season?

Power war have a loarge access to resistance! With no boons duration the signet is 6sec with 16 sec cd… What do you want? Os condi build with an all time immune?
Guys condi is a way to take down, they need some rework in pvp or adjustment in stacking but not a large nerf.
In another way, 80 pf the dps in pve and wvw are power so condi need a large large up???
If you propose a pvp condi nerf, propose also a condi wvw and pve up!

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

-good luck ever hitting a well-played chrono, condi or otherwise, with a direct attack.
-Reapers or Necros in general have always been hard-countered by CC. Doesn’t matter a lick what type of damage it is. I’d posit that condi berserker is closer to a hard counter to a Reaper than power berserker, and definitely more of a hard counter than power herald (who has zero CC). Power scrapper can probably fight it to a draw.
-Condi Berserker is only hard-countered by anything that can kite, damage type is irrelevant. They get you in melee range, you’re screwed. There’s a reason it’s the #1 class/build right now. Put an ESL-tier condi zerker against an ESL-tier power zerker and condi will win 90/100 fights.

Lucred.1802:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

-good luck ever hitting a well-played chrono, condi or otherwise, with a direct attack.
-Reapers or Necros in general have always been hard-countered by CC. Doesn’t matter a lick what type of damage it is. I’d posit that condi berserker is closer to a hard counter to a Reaper than power berserker, and definitely more of a hard counter than power herald (who has zero CC). Power scrapper can probably fight it to a draw.
-Condi Berserker is only hard-countered by anything that can kite, damage type is irrelevant. They get you in melee range, you’re screwed. There’s a reason it’s the #1 class/build right now. Put an ESL-tier condi zerker against an ESL-tier power zerker and condi will win 90/100 fights.

Its not true power herald has zero CC, they have shiro elite and legendary dragon. Ye they are largely telegraphed so maybe even necro players, who are know for their average low reaction time, may be able to dodge it. And there’s always staff 5 if you manage to get close to necro through their aoe and their fear autoproc rune before weakness and all the condis start beeing applied you have a good chance to win against a necro as herald. Off course if the necro is running some sort of minion kitten, herald will have very hard time killing them 1v1 with theyr lack of condi cleanse and theyr dmg decreased on multiple targets.
Power herald is a good counter to necros in 1v1 if the necro hasnt accumulate enough life force, but they are hard countered by them in team fights. To be honest, power herald would be totaly out of the meta if there wasnt the healing bot tempest, thief can do their job in 1v1 much more better.

The rest you wrote it’s true, condi mesmer and condi berserker are top 1v1 and hard countered by nothing.

kin korn karn.9023:

Just for fun…

4 condi-reliant +1 support
-vs-
4 power-reliant +1 support

Who wins, and why?

OK, I pick Ele, Druid, Scrapper, Rev, and Teef and eventually push all 3 points. We win with mobility and healing.

Power warrior is indeed a good choice, but it did fall out of meta. I use it and can kill anything. Shure i miss CC due to doge and blocks and stab. But one CC hit or the high damage alone downs many. The thing is people pick meta and forget that you can adapt. Shure my power war gets smashend by some other builds but condi warriors are prey and mesmers as well as reapers are a lot easier.

Everyone gave back some really good feedback . I love it

Fivedawgs.4267:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi bezerker is counter by power bezerker?? i don’t think you know what you are saying.

We will talk if you upload a vid of you beating Lb/mace shield Tarcis with your power warrior. And btw, i have beat him his condi build once with my power build.

I have tried any combination of power warrior, i made strength/zerk and def work (highest power output), but mediocre against revenant. Got to diamond, 3 times using this build until my intern mid-way through the season. A Mace/shield Condi warrior shouldn’t lose against a power/ axe warrior. If you’re losing/winning against one, you;re either bad or the condi warrior sucks.

Wolfric.9380:

Power warrior is indeed a good choice, but it did fall out of meta. I use it and can kill anything. Shure i miss CC due to doge and blocks and stab. But one CC hit or the high damage alone downs many. The thing is people pick meta and forget that you can adapt. Shure my power war gets smashend by some other builds but condi warriors are prey and mesmers as well as reapers are a lot easier.

Who the heck are you guys playing against?

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi bezerker is counter by power bezerker?? i don’t think you know what you are saying.

We will talk if you upload a vid of you beating Lb/mace shield Tarcis with your power warrior. And btw, i have beat him his condi build once with my power build.

I have tried any combination of power warrior, i made strength/zerk and def work (highest power output), but mediocre against revenant. Got to diamond, 3 times using this build until my intern mid-way through the season. A Mace/shield Condi warrior shouldn’t lose against a power/ axe warrior. If you’re losing/winning against one, you;re either bad or the condi warrior sucks.

Wolfric.9380:

Power warrior is indeed a good choice, but it did fall out of meta. I use it and can kill anything. Shure i miss CC due to doge and blocks and stab. But one CC hit or the high damage alone downs many. The thing is people pick meta and forget that you can adapt. Shure my power war gets smashend by some other builds but condi warriors are prey and mesmers as well as reapers are a lot easier.

Who the heck are you guys playing against?

Power zerker indeed counters condi zerker, as power zerker will constantly cleanse his conditions while condi zerker cannot tank all the dmg

Krysard.1364:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi bezerker is counter by power bezerker?? i don’t think you know what you are saying.

We will talk if you upload a vid of you beating Lb/mace shield Tarcis with your power warrior. And btw, i have beat him his condi build once with my power build.

I have tried any combination of power warrior, i made strength/zerk and def work (highest power output), but mediocre against revenant. Got to diamond, 3 times using this build until my intern mid-way through the season. A Mace/shield Condi warrior shouldn’t lose against a power/ axe warrior. If you’re losing/winning against one, you;re either bad or the condi warrior sucks.

Wolfric.9380:

Power warrior is indeed a good choice, but it did fall out of meta. I use it and can kill anything. Shure i miss CC due to doge and blocks and stab. But one CC hit or the high damage alone downs many. The thing is people pick meta and forget that you can adapt. Shure my power war gets smashend by some other builds but condi warriors are prey and mesmers as well as reapers are a lot easier.

Who the heck are you guys playing against?

Power zerker indeed counters condi zerker, as power zerker will constantly cleanse his conditions while condi zerker cannot tank all the dmg

Constantly?? that;s the problem .. Condi warriors have access to the same def stats as power, he has 2 endure pain and 2 blocks, unlike power who only has 1 block and 2 endure pain. His mace primal burst which spams blind if timed correctly can nullify your important shots.

Condi eat through endure pain whilst power dmg doesnt? So what do you mean by cant tank all the dmg?? and a RR condi is definitively a death sentence for a power warrior.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Krysard.1364:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi bezerker is counter by power bezerker?? i don’t think you know what you are saying.

We will talk if you upload a vid of you beating Lb/mace shield Tarcis with your power warrior. And btw, i have beat him his condi build once with my power build.

I have tried any combination of power warrior, i made strength/zerk and def work (highest power output), but mediocre against revenant. Got to diamond, 3 times using this build until my intern mid-way through the season. A Mace/shield Condi warrior shouldn’t lose against a power/ axe warrior. If you’re losing/winning against one, you;re either bad or the condi warrior sucks.

Wolfric.9380:

Power warrior is indeed a good choice, but it did fall out of meta. I use it and can kill anything. Shure i miss CC due to doge and blocks and stab. But one CC hit or the high damage alone downs many. The thing is people pick meta and forget that you can adapt. Shure my power war gets smashend by some other builds but condi warriors are prey and mesmers as well as reapers are a lot easier.

Who the heck are you guys playing against?

Power zerker indeed counters condi zerker, as power zerker will constantly cleanse his conditions while condi zerker cannot tank all the dmg

Constantly?? that;s the problem .. Condi warriors have access to the same def stats as power, he has 2 endure pain and 2 blocks, unlike power who only has 1 block and 2 endure pain. His mace primal burst which spams blind if timed correctly can nullify your important shots.

Condi eat through endure pain whilst power dmg doesnt? So what do you mean by cant tank all the dmg?? and a RR condi is definitively a death sentence for a power warrior.

Power warr > condi warr.Grab berserk util and make sure u got cleansin ire,also make use of healsig resist when needed.You will resist/regen/cleanse more then he is able to apply condis on you,and he will not be able to outheal your 5- 10k hits,if you play it right.

The listed condition builds do need a sustain nerf. The damage is fine.

Now with Cleric amulet, you sure bet ROCK (bunker support) is gone.

So, let’s see who is stronger, Power or Condi?

Jourdelune.7456:

Now with Cleric amulet, you sure bet ROCK (bunker support) is gone.

So, let’s see who is stronger, Power or Condi?

I’m afraid to watch this…..

Jourdelune.7456:

Now with Cleric amulet, you sure bet ROCK (bunker support) is gone.

So, let’s see who is stronger, Power or Condi?

Well, they definitely killed one of the currently viable power builds (power herald) with a significant nerf (~40% damage reduction) to their main damaging ability.

On the other hand, power-shatter mesmer looks like it might (maybe) be viable again.

So…without a complete rework of the meta it’s looking like:
-(condi) Necro, macebow warr, condi mesmer, condi herald
vs
-(power) Power zerker, powerhammer scrapper, thief
and
-(bunker/support/wet noodle) meditrapper DH, bunker druid
with
-(sideline) Ele, power herald, condi scrapper

Honorable mention, potentially viable will be power mesmer as inferior but good enough.

That gives us 4:3:2 for “best” specs and 5:4:2 as viable in favor of condi.