Guild Wars 2

First of all if you are one of those who constantly whine about balance and nothing else matters then this topic aint for you.

1st WTS was won by 2x cele burn engi.
2nd WTS was won by hammer guard.
3rd WTS was won by 2x DD ele.

Winners are winners and loosers shouldve have taken the risk and adapted their comps to latest meta etc. not trying to say here that they should have not won BUT how can these tourneys be most competetive if teams qualify with one thing and then because of anet their comp is not as strong anymore.

So now this trash meta we have for while, ive been defending no balance on my stream all the time because anet said long time ago that there will be no big balance changes until pro league is over which was more than fine with me cause i wanted to see one time tourney were people play what they been playing and there isnt some cheese that others teams havent discovered.
Whole PVP community had to live with this “balance” for months just so we get most competetive tourney.

Now pro players…. People didnt got invited, people got kicked, they lost time, they lost money, some of you might think this is joke but multiple players got fkd over really hard by this meta because their teams wanted to stay competetive.

Aaaaaand at the end of the day:
“Pro League S1 Finals will use the Winter 2016 balance update, not the current.”

Who knows how balance will be, who knows what classes will be viable, maybe if pro league would happen with next patch we would see completely different teams or in some cases same teams with different players.

So why spit in face of normal PVPers and pro league players? Well money ofc.
Having pro league finals with current meta is just bad marketing. The finals will be seen by people who dont play gw2 and of course anet dont want them to see every team playing 2x mes 2x rev comp.

Im literally ashamed to show the pvp in this game to my friends.

The finals will be a more accurate PTS

So many good players playing a class or a comp that is not what they feel comfortable with, making huge missplays on live and trying to learn boring and cheese specs all for the sake of wining.
I can understand the frustration, the finals may be a complete different story now comp wise, and who knows if the whole pro league would have been different if more classes or specs had been viable.

I actually think it is rather amusing. The teams that kicked some of the players who had the best mechanical knowledge are now going to have to live with their mistake. Ha ha ha! Poetic justice.

Call me apathetic, but in all seriousness i think it’s impossible for me to be surprised by anything they do. No matter how ridiculous.

what does it mean to play in a “pro” environment? you pick 5 good players for a team, you decide on who is playing what and then you play a comp that is strong. if a build becomes unviable you change the build, if a class becomes unviable you change to another one. you keep players but you adapt. that’s what it means to be pro. having 8000 games on 1 prof and 300 on all others is a thing of the past.

Yup…they did say that big balance changes would come between seasons….

And then the loudest of the loud started screaming that the bunker meta is kitten and balance needed to be addressed…..

….so, now we see a balance patch incoming on the 26th.

With the finals being 2-25 (iirc), that gives the top teams a month (roughly) to sort out what works and what doesn’t.

It doesn’t take that long for the meta to form. It sure as hell didn’t with the current mess.

Granted, their mild two step around their original “between seasons” is worth an eye roll, but it’s not unexpected.

Didn’t they do basically this exact same thing (iirc) right before the last WTS? Balance patch roughly a month in advance?

Ok what’s exactly wrong here? In other competitive games pro players have to adapt to sudden changes all the time, that’s part of being a pro.

Wait, I dont understand what are you on about? Isn’t this happens in other pvp games as well like dota and lol? Isn’t quickly adapting the meta part of being pro?

Also how is this spit on pvper? Since when does pro players aka very small community equals the whole pvp player base?

Leeto.1570:

First of all if you are one of those who constantly whine about balance and nothing else matters then this topic aint for you.

1st WTS was won by 2x cele burn engi.
2nd WTS was won by hammer guard.
3rd WTS was won by 2x DD ele.

Winners are winners and loosers shouldve have taken the risk and adapted their comps to latest meta etc. not trying to say here that they should have not won BUT how can these tourneys be most competetive if teams qualify with one thing and then because of anet their comp is not as strong anymore.

So now this trash meta we have for while, ive been defending no balance on my stream all the time because anet said long time ago that there will be no big balance changes until pro league is over which was more than fine with me cause i wanted to see one time tourney were people play what they been playing and there isnt some cheese that others teams havent discovered.
Whole PVP community had to live with this “balance” for months just so we get most competetive tourney.

Now pro players…. People didnt got invited, people got kicked, they lost time, they lost money, some of you might think this is joke but multiple players got fkd over really hard by this meta because their teams wanted to stay competetive.

Aaaaaand at the end of the day:
“Pro League S1 Finals will use the Winter 2016 balance update, not the current.”

Who knows how balance will be, who knows what classes will be viable, maybe if pro league would happen with next patch we would see completely different teams or in some cases same teams with different players.

So why spit in face of normal PVPers and pro league players? Well money ofc.
Having pro league finals with current meta is just bad marketing. The finals will be seen by people who dont play gw2 and of course anet dont want them to see every team playing 2x mes 2x rev comp.

Dude you are legend. In your own mind.

Jekkt.6045:

what does it mean to play in a “pro” environment? you pick 5 good players for a team, you decide on who is playing what and then you play a comp that is strong. if a build becomes unviable you change the build, if a class becomes unviable you change to another one. you keep players but you adapt. that’s what it means to be pro. having 8000 games on 1 prof and 300 on all others is a thing of the past.

If you were e-leeto you would understand apparently. See what I did there?

warbignime.4610:

Wait, I dont understand what are you on about? Isn’t this happens in other pvp games as well like dota and lol? Isn’t quickly adapting the meta part of being pro?

Also how is this spit on pvper? Since when does pro players aka very small community equals the whole pvp player base?

Balance should always assume the best players are using the class unless they’re balancing for skill, which means they don’t intend for certain characters, heroes, or classes to be played at a high level but rather be “overpowered” to inexperienced players. Balancing for skill is also why dragonhunters have the best balancing this season.

I disagree. I applaud Anet for finally addressing the balance issue. Who wants to see this boring bunker meta play out in the big stage. I’m only upset that they didn’t fix it sooner. This upcoming balance patch is a good start. Most pvpers are actually happy that change is coming soon. The only ones who would be upset are the lower skilled pros who has been carried by these cheesy metas and allowed them to compete with the better pro teams. So getting a balance update before the tourney will help ensure the better skilled team will win it. Like in any big esports, if there is a balance issue, they fix it before any real tournaments. I’m glad Anet did that too.

Agemnon.4608:

Balance should always assume the best players are using the class unless they’re balancing for skill, which means they don’t intend for certain characters, heroes, or classes to be played at a high level but rather be “overpowered” to inexperienced players. Balancing for skill is also why dragonhunters have the best balancing this season.

They shouldn’t be balancing for skill since this game has a matchmaker. Plus balancing for skill doesn’t even make sense in a mmorpg because we have classes and builds, thus a new player could only take advantage if they happened to pick guardian as their first class.

warbignime.4610:

Wait, I dont understand what are you on about? Isn’t this happens in other pvp games as well like dota and lol? Isn’t quickly adapting the meta part of being pro?

Also how is this spit on pvper? Since when does pro players aka very small community equals the whole pvp player base?

Nah man, dont you know, having the meta solved and playing what everyone else is playing is a surefire way to show just how pro you are!

Adjusting to changing conditions and still performing at the top level is not the mark of a true pro, you pleb!

/s

This skilless players makes me laugh They are flaming everywhere to anet, playing more than 3 years but still only can do DS spam If you think about that all classes are OP so go play with it you dont have to play only 1 class. Ahh sorry you cant because you are skilless player you need easy and OP class.

Yes anet has faults but they are trying to do best thing. GW2 completely changes on every part. I can say mesmers has too many invulnerability-block etc. and undead cancer engis looks need nerf but all other classes seems fair. As you can see classes dont make you better player you need skills playing with that, i saw too many useless mesmers, druids, reves, eles and necros like you dying in second.

And you cant wait a big changes if there is tournament with money prizes. Too many players played with this builds-classes and they are eliminated.

Anet gonna do some changes but surprise you not gonna kill them anyway with your DS spamming playing style so go watch some videos, guides or something and try to be a better player.

Locuz.2651:

Im literally ashamed to show the pvp in this game to my friends.

Don’t be so dramatic, because you and I both know that statement is false. Ashamed to show someone the game? Really? Priorities sir…priorities.

To be fair, the pro league players i know usually experiement on different builds all the time. I highly doubt it would be like oh noes revs suck now and our rev can’t play anything else. I actually think finals might turn out most exciting thing compared to snooze fest we had for months now.

Since when a pro player is a player that doesn’t play at least 2-3 different classes? Not just in GW2, any competitive online game.

It’s like saying that you can be a SC2 pro-player, but only play Zergs.

Pros should play 3 classes? Every pro could have been master of 7 classes but if it wasnt mesmer/rev they couldnt do good in tournies.
Having new meta on big stage is good? Ye sure everyone suffers months of trash meta for sake of esports and then they try to fix it just so it looks that game is fine and you are not forced to play 3 classes on 5 man team in a game with 9 classes.
Oh they will have to adjust they true pros… who the f cares about THEM i care about those players who wont be there just because they could not switch from playing thief to bunker mesmer or from bunker ele to dps revenant….
You think that current results show most skilled players/teams? No they show who was best at adapting to 2xmes2xrev cheese so and now we even wont see who is best at playing this cheese comp instead we will see who can dig out new cheese builds first.
I know that these are pvp forums and average skill level here is that of a potato and you dont understand whats going on when watching tournament but for some people watching skilled players is more fun than looking at good builds.

The moba comparison doe, even if you pretend that gw2 class is as simple as moba champion i still havent heard that top lane become unviable and player needs to start playing mid lane.

Leeto you should change your title btw. Anet doesn’t spit on pvpers, in fact i think majority can’t wait for balance patch.

warbignime.4610:

Wait, I dont understand what are you on about? Isn’t this happens in other pvp games as well like dota and lol? Isn’t quickly adapting the meta part of being pro?

Also how is this spit on pvper? Since when does pro players aka very small community equals the whole pvp player base?

In games like dota and lol you have a good amount of champion to choose and please don t compare this with gw2 where you have 9 profesion 4 almost 5 out of meta or with really low representation.
In one game in pro league were 5 revenant 4 mesmer 1 ele GREAT CLASS REPRESENTATION.

Cynz.9437:

Leeto you should change your title btw. Anet doesn’t spit on pvpers, in fact i think majority can’t wait for balance patch.

What does this have to do with balance patch? Its about everyone playing broken meta for months which now was obviously for no reason and why hide the trash meta on big stage if thats what everyone had to play.

Double Ele has won the most WTS, yes.

But we also see super competitive performances between 2-3 teams which none have ever ran the same comp, or even had the same playstyle.

Right now, everybody in the entire competitive community is double Mes, double Rev, with the exception every once and a while. Play it, or get absolutely destroyed, with only 1-2 team spots up for discussion. It’s a bit of a more of a necessary thing for balance patch to get forced on us this time.

Balance patch before LAN, very good decision. I don’t feel spit on, I feel salvation from above.

Anet has stated multiple times that Pro League is a marketing effort and that it will NOT affect the speed of balance changes.

How in the world could you consider that a bad thing? Balancing the game means all us regular players will be having more fun in PvP. That should take priority over “espurtz”.

Leeto I suggest going to fight the Lord Helseth again, maybe that’ll cheer you up.

Zefrost.3425:

Leeto I suggest going to fight the Lord Helseth again, maybe that’ll cheer you up.

lol

What is a looser? Someone who loosens knots?

I think the players who were forcibly moved from there teams bugs me the most. These guys spend alot of time in this game and when you have meta like this where its get good at rev and mesmer or get kicked.

When it comes to the feeling of being spit on. I mean each meta has its own feeling and we as players just have to adjust to the game. It gives for a different game play but for me this has been the most frustrating meta yet. The mesmers ability to rez a downed ally in .5 seconds when it took 3 minutes to get him down feels cheap and dirty. Stronghold period is a big joke which they didnt fix or updated since introducing. The revs ability to not being hurt or even moved when rezzing is the biggest joke ever. Lets create a new class where there is 0 counter play.

I dont know if getting spit on is the feeling of this current meta but my god its pretty close.

Leeto.1570:

First of all if you are one of those who constantly whine about balance and nothing else matters then this topic aint for you.

1st WTS was won by 2x cele burn engi.
2nd WTS was won by hammer guard.
3rd WTS was won by 2x DD ele.

Winners are winners and loosers shouldve have taken the risk and adapted their comps to latest meta etc. not trying to say here that they should have not won BUT how can these tourneys be most competetive if teams qualify with one thing and then because of anet their comp is not as strong anymore.

So now this trash meta we have for while, ive been defending no balance on my stream all the time because anet said long time ago that there will be no big balance changes until pro league is over which was more than fine with me cause i wanted to see one time tourney were people play what they been playing and there isnt some cheese that others teams havent discovered.
Whole PVP community had to live with this “balance” for months just so we get most competetive tourney.

Now pro players…. People didnt got invited, people got kicked, they lost time, they lost money, some of you might think this is joke but multiple players got fkd over really hard by this meta because their teams wanted to stay competetive.

Aaaaaand at the end of the day:
“Pro League S1 Finals will use the Winter 2016 balance update, not the current.”

Who knows how balance will be, who knows what classes will be viable, maybe if pro league would happen with next patch we would see completely different teams or in some cases same teams with different players.

So why spit in face of normal PVPers and pro league players? Well money ofc.
Having pro league finals with current meta is just bad marketing. The finals will be seen by people who dont play gw2 and of course anet dont want them to see every team playing 2x mes 2x rev comp.

Part of being good at guild wars is discovering effective builds, which you referred to as “cheese”.

You even admit so much:

“Winners are winners and loosers shouldve have taken the risk and adapted their comps to latest meta etc.”

And can you really blame them for wanting to sell copies and not broadcast a braindead meta? Also, how does it kitten normal PvPers not in the tournament?

All that being said I’d be annoyed too if it affected me, I mean, players have been practicing on this for a long time. Its not like having an updated patch during the tournament will net them extra copy sales, it wont

I think I will try to solve some misunderstandings in this thread. I have learned my fair share of Latvian passion during the year(s), so I can at least try to disect the topic a bit:

- It is not about a new meta being bad
- It is not about the old meta being bad
- It is not about changing your comp in a month

What seems to be the frustration is the following;

To have a consistant playing field, Anet decided not to rebalance for months. This means that you, the people who play, were stuck with what you got. This so happened to be one of the trashiest metas ever – on which it was shown that people were able to utilize it’s strength without “much effort” on several areas of the game…
The Pro League was quite the snoozefest to most to watch (generating views with a gembot), so it was seemingly neither enjoyable to watch or to play.
This is further enforced by the fact that most seem to be so happy with the upcomming balance patch – you want to escape the meta.

However, they decided to change the meta right before the big event… the event on which competitors fight globally…
It is not new, sure, other games have done it… But what other games don’t do is leave a meta settle for so long, especially when it’s creating such a lackluster enviroment as a whole
So what was the reason to have an equal playing field during the Pro League then anyway of you are going to change it for the big event?
To ensure that outsiders do not get cured of their insomnia? Literally frustrating your playerbase for months and then pretend that “everything is fine”? And for what reason? Cheese always prevailed – so there is no reason to not let it happen again now that people did grow accustomed to it… Come on, show the world the terror that people have been into for months.

Granted though, considering that most people still got high hopes, you will likely either don’t care or not see the issue at all… Meta’s gonna change, rejoice right?

Have fun though to those who do…

I think I will try to solve some misunderstandings in this thread. I have learned my fair share of Latvian passion during the year(s), so I can at least try to disect the topic a bit.

Even Nimzowitsch thought the Latvian gambit was a draw with best play so you’re in good company but modern grandmasters unanimously agree it’s a win for white. There’s the objectively superior refutation that’s more complicated and harder to keep track of and then there’s the clear advantage refutation where you decline the pawn with 3.Nc3 that’s more stable if you don’t want to memorize all those mainline refutation lines.

Warrior is the equivalent of the Latvian Gambit for this meta.

This is further enforced by the fact that most seem to be so happy with the upcoming balance patch – you want to escape the meta.

Hopeful. Enough people have left where there’ll be even bigger match disparities, leading to further frustration and even more people quitting. I think they need a commercial. Not on the internet but TV. I’d recommend Nickelodeon, MTV, Cartoon Network and similar for ads and Netflix too for good measure. Rytlock and Taimi could be in the commercial and some of Tybalt’s clips like his, “Ooooo sounds.” one from the quaggan mission.

Cheese always prevailed – so there is no reason to not let it happen again now that people did grow accustomed to it… Come on, show the world the terror that people have been into for months.

Yeah it’s telling that the tournament is getting rebalanced since they’re aware the meta is very unpopular. On a tempest or even druid I couldn’t kill bunker mesmers even though I have celestial stats on both but to be fair bunkers assuming you’re going full on attacker so a “balanced” statset not damage centric will have trouble bursting a defense specialist down (sentinel mesmer is meta)

The very sad thing is it’s still the fairest game mode, you too can copy meta battle and advertise a teamspeak team with an optimal comp in map chat, that way you maximize your advantages and will only lose to Abjured because they’re simply more skilled and with superior map awareness.

Leeto.1570:

The moba comparison doe, even if you pretend that gw2 class is as simple as moba champion i still havent heard that top lane become unviable and player needs to start playing mid lane.

No but you’re often forced to play with different champions/heros whose abilities and mechanics are completely different to what they were playing previously.

In lol at least lane swapping is a thing, so your ‘lane’ argument is moot. If you’re really a “pro” player you’re gonna find a way to adapt.

Jekkt.6045:

what does it mean to play in a “pro” environment? you pick 5 good players for a team, you decide on who is playing what and then you play a comp that is strong. if a build becomes unviable you change the build, if a class becomes unviable you change to another one. you keep players but you adapt. that’s what it means to be pro. having 8000 games on 1 prof and 300 on all others is a thing of the past.

It’s almost like you’re trying to say, the builds are now carrying the players?

#PassiveWars2.

sephiroth.4217:

Jekkt.6045:

what does it mean to play in a “pro” environment? you pick 5 good players for a team, you decide on who is playing what and then you play a comp that is strong. if a build becomes unviable you change the build, if a class becomes unviable you change to another one. you keep players but you adapt. that’s what it means to be pro. having 8000 games on 1 prof and 300 on all others is a thing of the past.

It’s almost like you’re trying to say, the builds are now carrying the players?

#PassiveWars2.

it’s a fact that during the past 6 months the builds have gotten a lot easiert to play, but that’s not my point here.

a “pro” player needs to be able to adapt to balance changes. if you play a dps role in a team and suddenly the build or the class becomes unviable you don’t switch the player out but you make him play a different class/build with the same role (or if the class is still viable with but a build that has a different role the player could also switch to that, although i have seen many dps mesmers that struggle with a support playstyle and most of the time longtime support players are better on well mesmer than mesmer mains.).

i currently play revenant for my team and if revenant happens to become unviable on the 26th i will switch to something else, for example berserker or thief, depending on what will become strong.

Truth of the matter is this:

Anet dropped the ball when they let this meta even into the pro leagues. Everyone was clamoring how horrible this meta was/is. Anet chose to once again ignore the signs of imbalance and complete snoozefest that this meta is.

Pro league started and by week 2/3 the full bearing of kitten that this meta represents was in full swing. Anet should have gutted the meta right then and there, but no they left it.

They also chose to leave it in during the holiday break as well when once again they had the perfect opportunity to correct their mistakes.

Now here we are with 2 weeks of this terrible meta that anet has fostered waiting for a balance patch to save the day. So I say I welcome a patch, but am I the only one who thinks they’ll just F it up even more?? Just me???

There is 1 big problem with anet trying to balance. They actualy dont balance they just buff buff buff , every bigger balance patch looks the same. They nerf a bit some broken mechanics and buff stuff that was not used , problem is that when u nerf broken mechanics that unused stuff is getting stronger and buffing it even more end up with complete power creep.

Look what they gonan do with thief , they gonan buff it , i ask kitten why u wanna buff thief????

Look atm on the boon spam , i watched video made before HOT and compered it to games now. Its just crazy , perma vigor , swiftnes , 20+ might , regen , protection etc.