Guild Wars 2

I ask because I feel like leagues aren’t focused. I think that Anet, or Anet and the community, need to decide what ranked and leagues really are about. This needs to be decided in enough time so that structural changes can be made before the start of the next year (not season).

So, are ranked leagues strictly a competitive thing? Is it mostly competetive but with rewards (legendary backpieces, etc) limited to only highly skilled or extremely dedicated players? Or is it more casual based where most can get the rewards and less competitive?

The problem: we have both MMR and pips/divisions trying to do similar things but at cross purposes. My feelings are that the matchmaker is trying to do too many things (e.g. make teams with similar MMR and similar division rank and other things like avoid long waits and class stacking) and it ends up doing all those things badly, or at least compromising one goal for another and turning the experience into a bad one a significant fraction of the time.

So first lets clear up some terms:

MMR – simply a rating system that tries to judge the skill of a player. All else being equal (yes, big caveat) players with a close rating should provide a fair matchup when matched against each other. While the algorithms used are published on the wiki, the actual numeric ratings for players are not visible in any way to players.

Pips/Divisions – a progression/advancement system tied to leagues and PvP legendary rewards. Division rank is a proxy for skill – but due to mechanics (not losing divisions once obtained) a player of mediocre skill with a dash of luck can grind their way to top ranks, while people who are unlucky can be stuck repeatedly on poor teams and clearly outmatched by their opponents.

We also have a matchmaking algorithm that uses both of these ratings to put matches together. This is simplified, but as of Season 3, MMR is being used to form teams of similarly ranked players, but within a range of your pips. After the team is formed, it is placed against another team that was formed the same way. Since teammates are closer to each other in MMR than their opponents, this leads often to one team having a noticeable advantage.

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Before anyone replies that I’m only complaining that I can’t get to legendary rank when I don’t deserve it: I only consider that I’m an average skill player and I feel I’ve fairly reached the ranks I deserve so far. I feel I have good strategic sense and map awareness, but I’m hampered by my average mechanical skill level on higher skill cap classes/specs. I’ve had no trouble at all getting to Ruby in season 1 and 2, and I’m almost there this season. I nearly got to diamond in season 2, but went on a losing streak and didn’t have time to recover. So no, I don’t deserve to be in legendary without a significant increase in my skill level or by really grinding out matches.

That said, this is my reason for posting: I want better quality matches and a better PvP experience. I think Season 3 matchmaking is really the worst yet, and I want to see that improved. I want a focused and distinct reason for leagues.

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So some options and what I see as solutions.

If ranked is strictly competitive, then I see two choices:
1) MMR is the only thing that should be used to create matches. The matchmaker should be trying it’s hardest to get two evenly matched teams. All MMR should be visible (after the match is fine) to promote trust in the system. Pips/Divisions go away.
2) Only Pips/Divisions are used to create matches. Some type of pip and division loss must be introduced – there can be no safe plateau.

For these options we must recognize that current structure of getting legendary wings would not be suitable for all but the very top. Crossing divisions and PvP League ticket currency would be much more difficult. Personally, I am not a fan of this, but I recognize that many serious PvP players might be.

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Next option: middle ground – mostly competitive but rewards are easier to reach with sufficient play time. This is closer to what we have, but we need a different structure for matchmaking. The only way I see this as working is like #1 above, where only MMR is used to create matchups, and MMR is visible instead of pips. Matchmaker tries to make completely fair/even/50-50 matches. Pips do not determine matches at all, and are ony there as the reward structure. I would suggest putting tiers into Ruby and Diamond where once attained you cannot fall back. Perhaps 10 pips for Ruby and 15 for Diamond.

With this option, yes, getting to Diamond/Legendary is much easier. So what? Matches aren’t determined in anyway with pips, and since MMR is visible, the pro and elite can use that to show off. An Amber and Legendary player could legitimately be placed on the same team or opposing teams if their MMR is close.

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And finally, a more casual system. For this, we get rid of MMR entirely and use only Pips. I think the current Season 3 pip gain/loss would work fine here. Once MMR is gone completely, I think we’d get a fairer shake to both comeback after loosing a few times in a row, and not getting easier matches when you’re already on a win streak.

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My choice would be middle ground, but again, I only consider myself an averaged skilled PvPer. I spend more time in PvE than in PvP, but I do PvP in unranked nearly every day when leagues are not active.

The league is a reward track pure and simple.

Wall of text hits you for 100,000 damage.

Short answer: enjoyment.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Wall of text hits you for 100,000 damage.

Mitigated to 10k damage by scanning while scrolling. Are you even a PvPer?

esports

Sparky.8724:

esports

^This, to encourage people to form teams, “git gud” and play in the ESL. No other reason than that. The wings are just a carrot to get people in to PvP so queue times are not measured in light years.

It’s a grind-system for the backpack! That’s ALL it is. There’s NOTHING competitive about it!

^ reason everyone hates sPvP

First let me be clear that this post has no intention of being mean to ANET or anyone else.

Many of those players attracted by the backpack will have immediately been exposed to long loss streaks and blowout matches. So, I’m guessing it will actually decrease population and increase queue times.

At the same time match quality will decrease, because there are fewer players to draw from.

On top of that: the grind is near-impossible to complete. The requirements are so steep that very few pve players have a hope of completing them.

So, the league has pretty much eliminated the idea of being casual or fun.

Yes this is on-topic and in direct response to previous posts. Thank You.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sparky.8724:

esports

^This, to encourage people to form teams, “git gud” and play in the ESL. No other reason than that. The wings are just a carrot to get people in to PvP so queue times are not measured in light years.

When will they realize that it’s having right the opposite effect?

Burn.5401:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sparky.8724:

esports

^This, to encourage people to form teams, “git gud” and play in the ESL. No other reason than that. The wings are just a carrot to get people in to PvP so queue times are not measured in light years.

When will they realize that it’s having right the opposite effect?

Never.

Burn.5401:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sparky.8724:

esports

^This, to encourage people to form teams, “git gud” and play in the ESL. No other reason than that. The wings are just a carrot to get people in to PvP so queue times are not measured in light years.

When will they realize that it’s having right the opposite effect?

They already realize it they just more then likely just don’t give one care in the world. In other words they have no pride for their game, so it “will” continue to suffer till the player base in mass has finally had enoth and go else where. But with the system just handing out “Free Wins” it’ll keep it’s self minimally sustaining for a while longer.

It’s funny how none of the teams on the challenger leaderboard are worth anything on NA except maybe NK esports who seemed to have decayed rather than play queue wars 2. The rest aren’t even good players in solos and they can’t even beat a bunch of random legends/diamonds in a full premade gg.

But yeah, #ESPURTZ BRUH

Ranked leagues are there for one reason and one reason only… to get people to play more. You guys should know that.

It is not to measure skill, or to have balanced games. The only way ANET will ever invest in a good matchmaker or better league structure is if they see the player numbers declining.

This is a l2p issue, on lower devisions it might seem grindy to go back and forth a few pips but trust me when ur one win away from legendary perfection and love for pvp makes it worth it. Even in soloque teamwork and every second matters and so does any little mistake or good play someone makes when everybody is around the same skill lvl. Because a badge , backpiece, and title can be obtained now it gives players a reason to keep doing it. Exactly what pvp needed ! From a event to a game mode

This post is in direct reply to the previous poster. It also directly relates to the subject.

I don’t agree. The matchmaker is deliberately stacking one side to win. Some are being carried on long win streaks and think they are PvP gods.

Others, are being picked for teams that are set up and expected to lose. That’s not a L2P issue and that old chestnut does not apply.

The purpose of the “Legendary” backpack was largely to attract pve players to pvp. However, the “competitive” matchmaking has the opposite effect. I think that’s kind of the point of this thread.

In my opinion. The leagues are not competitive because they do not provide a level playing field. I think it’s also obvious that the league is neither casual nor fun for most.

The failure is in trying to accomplish opposing goals.

Cannabis Sativa Hollandica.2803:

This is a l2p issue, on lower devisions it might seem grindy to go back and forth a few pips but trust me when ur one win away from legendary perfection and love for pvp makes it worth it. Even in soloque teamwork and every second matters and so does any little mistake or good play someone makes when everybody is around the same skill lvl. Because a badge , backpiece, and title can be obtained now it gives players a reason to keep doing it. Exactly what pvp needed ! From a event to a game mode

That is precisely why I Learn to Play actually competitive PvP battle arenas and MMOs with on the fly counter play, that make a attempt at finding two balanced teams, that make sure RvRvR scores are not being ran away with players who just log in when everyone else is sleeping and no one else can catch up, games where actually player skill is mostly the deciding factor if you win or lose/ kill or be kill, games that make multiply attempts at balancing Classes and or Gods/Heroes, games that require tactics instead of mindless AOE/Condi/Boon spam with little to no counter play.

But you know what keep thinking you are something special being carried in a noncompetitive sPvP/WvWvW game by the system. I actually remember the days when GW2 was actual a great tactical player vs player/World vs World game, and not many mindless/skilless gimmicks and the build diversity problem.

Funny how some games can only have 4 actually classes but more then 20 plus viable and competitive builds. If only ANet cared, but again w/e life goes on.