Guild Wars 2

Copypaste this post and replace condition with power.
Hey, at least you can cleanse all the damage away dealt by a power build too. {sarcasm}
Condi and power are two means to the same end, accept that already. Except condi has much more counterplay and can make ya move slower.

Condi warrior vs power warrior. Condi warrior wins? Yeah right

Power warrior shrugs condis while dishing massive damage to condi warrior… condi warriors regens can’t sustain the massive damage from the burst, and to seal the deal if condis actually do become a threat… Pop berserker stance and healing signet.

Condi damage can be countered in many ways. Currently I feel like there are too many counters, condition damage is weak.

Condi necro beats power? Wut.
Necro has slow condi app but lots of corruption.
Necro has lots of condi transfer, cleanses and consume condition. Necro has well of power and low armor stats.
By nature necro is susceptible to power while being extremely resistant to condi.

Consuming conditions alone shuts down condi necro long enough to beat them down.

qq-post about condi engi by somone who thinks condi warrior beats power warrior, & condi engi beats power scrapper.

like, wow really? the meta is, like it always is mostly power builds. these power builds are nearly always better than the condi equivalent, & are often easier to play. so idk why you would complain about condi, well unless you just want free wins via nerf.

Condis are as weak as they have been in a long time.

Condi Engi relies on burst condi application that is easy to cleanse. Condi Engi has not bee viable against skilled players due to lack of survival, and that has not changed.

Condi Trap Druid is a joke that is not viable anywhere in pvp. The build has no sustain, and if it were to spec for more sustain, it would lose significant damage.

Also, it is laughable to claim that condi warr beats power warr, condi engi beats power engi, condi druid beats power druid, or condi rev beats power rev. Even saying condi necro beats power necro is quite a stretch, as that one could go either way.

The only classes effectively using condi these days is warrior, mesmer, and necromancer, and warriors and necromancers tend to prefer power builds in general lately.

Really don’t understand where you are coming from with all of this false information, and I can only assume you must be trolling.

I used to play Power Rifle engi, but switched to condi because I was tired of losing.

It’s ridiculous how much easier and more effective condi burst is with p/p + traits (compared with Rifle, which is borderline unplayable). If it’s not cleansed, pistol 4 does literally 20k damage on its own. When you factor in Incendiary Ammo, Incendiary Powder, and other sources of condi, you basically melt people in 3-4 ticks.

If you catch a class with their cleanse on >5s cooldown, they are dead. Even if they DO have a cleanse available, sometimes it takes 2 or 3 seconds to move into a safe position and use the skill. In that time, they’ve lost 75% of their health.

IMO, this is too good for landing basically 1 skill without an obvious circle or tell to dodge.

Condi shouldn’t be burst. It should be attrition. I miss pre-condi patch combat, but .. what can you do? If you can’t beat ’em. Join em…. sigh.

Trapper ranger is not a good build. When have you ever seen anyone running that in a tournament? It should lose to nearly every meta build, and definitely loses to mender druid.

I think your entire post is fairly misinformed.

coro.3176:

I used to play Power Rifle engi, but switched to condi because I was tired of losing.

It’s ridiculous how much easier and more effective condi burst is with p/p + traits (compared with Rifle, which is borderline unplayable). If it’s not cleansed, pistol 4 does literally 20k damage on its own. When you factor in Incendiary Ammo, Incendiary Powder, and other sources of condi, you basically melt people in 3-4 ticks.

If you catch a class with their cleanse on >5s cooldown, they are dead. Even if they DO have a cleanse available, sometimes it takes 2 or 3 seconds to move into a safe position and use the skill. In that time, they’ve lost 75% of their health.

IMO, this is too good for landing basically 1 skill without an obvious circle or tell to dodge.

Condi shouldn’t be burst. It should be attrition. I miss pre-condi patch combat, but .. what can you do? If you can’t beat ’em. Join em…. sigh.

Not sure who you are fighting that just let’s those burns tick on them like that, but I can only assume they are just plain bad or you jumped them while they were fighting someone else. In the event of the player being outnumbered, that happens no matter what build you are playing, and has nothing to do with the viability of condi engi.

Also, of condi engi is better than rifle engi, but that is because rifle engi is just plain bad in pvp right now. Fact still remains though that hammer scrapper is insanely better than condi engi and gasp it is a power build.

Also, condi is an alternative to power damage in this game. You guys need yo stop trying to force rules from other mmo’s on this game.

Fair point, but it’s not as bad with power builds. A power build at least gives the opponent a chance to dodge out and pop defenses. Sure, you might hit someone for up to 10k with a full-glass nade throw or something, but that’s the MOST you’ll get out of one skill. After that, they have a chance to react – dodge, LoS, move out of range, use blocks, invulns, defensive skills, counterattack with CC, etc.

Condi.. well, not every class has on-demand cleanse every few seconds. If I happen to catch someone with their cleanse on 4 to 5 s cooldown, they essentially get 1-shotted by condi-burst. There’s nothing they can do about it except hope a nearby ally will rez them once they go down.

(off topic: Why is “4dash5s” with a – instead of “dash” a censored word?

coro.3176:

Fair point, but it’s not as bad with power builds. A power build at least gives the opponent a chance to dodge out and pop defenses. Sure, you might hit someone for up to 10k with a full-glass nade throw or something, but that’s the MOST you’ll get out of one skill. After that, they have a chance to react – dodge, LoS, move out of range, use blocks, invulns, defensive skills, counterattack with CC, etc.

Condi.. well, not every class has on-demand cleanse every few seconds. If I happen to catch someone with their cleanse on 4 to 5 s cooldown, they essentially get 1-shotted by condi-burst. There’s nothing they can do about it except hope a nearby ally will rez them once they go down.

(off topic: Why is “4dash5s” with a – instead of “dash” a censored word?

Every class doesn’t need on demand cleanse every 4-5 seconds. You just need access to decent condi cleanse and know how to properly time your cleanses.

Btw, all of those defenses you listed to avoiding power attacks, work for condi attacks as well. Conditions are not just magically applied, an attack has to connect. If I see an P/P Engi coming at me, I know to have a cleanse ready for his inevitable burst. I know if he is coming in close to me he’s probably going to try to blow torch.

Fact is, power attacks and condi attacks have the same counters with a few exceptions. Power damage can be additionally mitigated with toughness and protection. Condition damage however can be negated, not mitigated, through the use of condition cleanses and resistance. This gives power damage the advantage, since when you land a power attack, that’s it, the damage is done, it’s there. With a condi damage attack, you could land a big condi bomb, only to have have it completely cleansed and negated.

And again, the hammer scrapper, a power build, still performs leagues ahead of the condi engi build. This whole mindset that condition builds are dominating pvp is just plain false. Truth is, power builds have been and still are dominating pvp.

i can’t see anything that needs to be added to @Shaogin’s post tbh.
well said dude.

Those defenses don’t work vs condi after you’ve been tagged. With power, you get hit, you react, you don’t die. With condi, you get hit, you react, but you have to have a cleanse or resistance. If you don’t, you’re dead.

That feels … unbalanced. Don’t get me wrong, I’m enjoying tagging people with a single Blowtorch+IA+IP hit, then watching them melt but .. .. it’s not the interactive back & forth Guild Wars 2 combat I have come to expect.

coro.3176:

Fair point, but it’s not as bad with power builds. A power build at least gives the opponent a chance to dodge out and pop defenses. Sure, you might hit someone for up to 10k with a full-glass nade throw or something, but that’s the MOST you’ll get out of one skill. After that, they have a chance to react – dodge, LoS, move out of range, use blocks, invulns, defensive skills, counterattack with CC, etc.

Condi.. well, not every class has on-demand cleanse every few seconds. If I happen to catch someone with their cleanse on 4 to 5 s cooldown, they essentially get 1-shotted by condi-burst. There’s nothing they can do about it except hope a nearby ally will rez them once they go down.

(off topic: Why is “4dash5s” with a – instead of “dash” a censored word?

Can you tell me why you do not use the same methods to avoid power damage that you outlined when you face a Condition build?

I always find it so very odd how many players are like this. If I face them on my power build they will block/dodge/LOS/CC and all those other things you mentioned , but if I face the same player with the same skill access with my Condition build, they just eat the damage and forget about all of those things.

is it because the raw damage so mimimal you feel you do not have to use such methods to ensure they do not land?

You seem to suggest in your post “I do not have to do any of this to avoid those conditions as I have cleanses”.

If the defenses do not work as well ’after you are tagged" then use them to avoid being tagged in the first place just as you would a power attack.

coro.3176:

With power, you get hit, you react, you don’t die.

What? With power once you’re hit the damage is done and there is nothing else you can do about it. There are no further chances to “react” once the hit is landed.

coro.3176:

Those defenses don’t work vs condi after you’ve been tagged. With power, you get hit, you react, you don’t die. With condi, you get hit, you react, but you have to have a cleanse or resistance. If you don’t, you’re dead.

all of the viable power builds can pump out over 10k damage easily. so, if you wait to get hit then react you will be dead or close to death. idk why you don’t think this is important enough to mention in your ‘comparison’.

it’s not like you can condi clear a 10k vault, so in a way power is much less forgiving to fight. no idea why people have this attitude that condi shouldn’t do comparable damage to power. it’s all damage, it’s all attacks you should have dodged.

like, sure i guess some condi builds are kinda BS, but honestly most builds power or condi are BS right now. compare our meta to pre specialisations, everything is OP by old standards.

coro.3176:

Fair point, but it’s not as bad with power builds. A power build at least gives the opponent a chance to dodge out and pop defenses. Sure, you might hit someone for up to 10k with a full-glass nade throw or something, but that’s the MOST you’ll get out of one skill. After that, they have a chance to react – dodge, LoS, move out of range, use blocks, invulns, defensive skills, counterattack with CC, etc.

Condi.. well, not every class has on-demand cleanse every few seconds. If I happen to catch someone with their cleanse on 4 to 5 s cooldown, they essentially get 1-shotted by condi-burst. There’s nothing they can do about it except hope a nearby ally will rez them once they go down.

(off topic: Why is “4dash5s” with a – instead of “dash” a censored word?

Condition are applied by skills as well. You can also avoid skills that apply conditions just like you do against power build. There is no fundamental difference.

Yeah, there are skills that feel a kitteneesy to fight against. But tell me how fundamentally different are the power staff evade thief and condition evade spam thief.

Power is more powerful than condi? Too bad the 2-4k burning ticks are covered by the 7 stacks of vulnerability or 5 stacks of confusion and all of those still tick through blocks and evades and immunities. If I’m hit with a 4k attack, I take 4k damage. If I’m hit with a something that does 2-4k burning per second, I’m going to take a lot more than 4k damage. And if I happen to be unable to cleanse them or if they can be instantly reapplied, there’s nothing I can do. Yes, the best thing to do is avoid being hit altogether, but that simply isn’t possible, and when you’re hit by a condition attack, the impact, in my experience, is far more impactful than from power attacks, even though power attacks are also OP.

Zintrothen.1056:

Power is more powerful than condi? Too bad the 2-4k burning ticks are covered by the 7 stacks of vulnerability or 5 stacks of confusion and all of those still tick through blocks and evades and immunities. If I’m hit with a 4k attack, I take 4k damage. If I’m hit with a something that does 2-4k burning per second, I’m going to take a lot more than 4k damage. And if I happen to be unable to cleanse them or if they can be instantly reapplied, there’s nothing I can do. Yes, the best thing to do is avoid being hit altogether, but that simply isn’t possible, and when you’re hit by a condition attack, the impact, in my experience, is far more impactful than from power attacks, even though power attacks are also OP.

It’s not possible to completely avoid being hit by a power user either, this game isn’t designed around being able to avoid all damage. (unless you’re a thief)

The only difference between power and condi is the psychological one.

I guess, the main reason, why people complain more about condis than about power (it has always been like this, no matter how the actual meta looked like), is, that playing against power is more intuitively. You see an attack, you get hit, your health immediately drops by a sigificant amout -> this pattern makes it easy to connect certain animations with the result (big dmg) and therefore it is pretty obvious, which attacks you want to avoid.
With condis it is different. You still see the attacks coming, but usually not much is happening after you see the animations. You got some condis on you, maybe use some cleanses, but your health isnt’t affected that much, so you don’t care. But of course condi builds will keep stacking condis on you and at a certain point those condis kill you. However, the attacks that killed you often happen seconds before this point, which leads to the feeling of getting condi bombed “out of nowhere”. Learning how to play against conditions (what to avoid and when to cleanse) requires an actual thinking and learning process and that’s something many players don’t want to do. They rather complain about op/cheesy/broken/whatever condis, often making wrong claims that reveal their cluelessness, and then wonder, why anet (and some other players) can’t take their complaints serious.

Auroraborealis.7310:

condi mesmer vs power mesmer-condi wins
condi warr vs power warr-condi wins

condi guardian vs power-can go either way

condi rev vs power-condi wins

So in the majority of match-ups condi builds have a significant edge over power, while being far easier to use and requiring only 1 stat to achieve damage.

This is a sarcasm, it isnt?

Conditions are broken. The removal of every amulet that combined condition damage with toughness and vitality proved this.

Why don’t we see trailblazer and dire in sPvP and why was mercenary removed?

This is ANets way to fix broken stuff – unfortunately in just one game mode.

KrHome.1920:

Conditions are broken. The removal of every amulet that combined condition damage with toughness and vitality proved this.

Why don’t we see trailblazer and dire in sPvP and why was mercenary removed?

This is ANets way to fix broken stuff – unfortunately in just one game mode.

Actually they’re removed pretty much any amulet that had compounding offensive and defensive stats.

Soliders, settlers, clerics, sentinels to name a few.

Mercenaries was removed because it had both main offensive and both main defensive stats. Paladins is fine because it lacks ferocity and ferocity is fairly hard to get from other sources. I.e the offensive/defensive balance isn’t waaay off. I reckon if paladins had ferocity it would have been removed.

Same as how clerics was removed because healing power and toughness compound way to well. You don’t see a single amulet with healing power and toughness anymore because not only do you heal for more but you take less damage.

You can draw similar conclusions between why Valkyrie is ok but soliders was not and why barbarians is ok but but sentinels was not.

Even runes. Durability is essentially the defensive variant of pack. The extra damage provided by pack runes is no where near the extra survivability given by durability.