Guild Wars 2

Before I got on, I want to stress “changes” and not big “tuning swings”. I’m curious if the Devs feel like they can make big CHANGES to the game, not just tuning things but if they see fit actually make some ground breaking CHANGES to the game? Some examples thrown around (this isn’t a discussion if you agree or disagree with these, but they’re big potential CHANGES that would affect the game, and personal ideas, and its okay if you disagree, honestly not the point here). Things like:

- Removing kill Rally, and making it so that the person who stomps or deals the fatal hit on a player gets a “Rally” buff and allows them to instantly rally an ally. (Reactive play).

- Removing much of the instant attacks and making more of combat slower casting/reactive like the Necro USED to be so that timing dodges meant more than a short invuln frame from constant spam.

- Completely redoing Conditions and removing condition damage and having Conditions to scale (much slower) with power and just be attack added “flavor” (and obviously less stacking potential, and in pve the caps would be hit much less).

- Revamp traits to get rid of all the cooldown passive defenses/offences and add more requirement but predictable traits (Such kitten if the target is bleeding when you hit them, you heal a small amount of health. Terror is already a perfect example.

- Give all cooldown based traits Icons (under the numbers) that show up on the buff bar when they’re not on cooldown (for both the enemy and self).

- Redo how stats work so that Bunking is less potent and burst is less potent so fights last longer but none are forever.

- Change conquest to be more interactive than standing on a circle. (Literally re-envision it)

- Allow real Support builds to exist, including healers IN THE FORM OF combat healers, nothing that requires targeting allies but requires combat-work to achieve. (Similar to Shout warriors, but have them do more healing of others and less self-sufficient so their not bunkers but supporters.)

- Redo thieves to be a cooldown based class like everyone else and give them more active defenses so they’re not built to just spam a certain move, but are a functioning class that meshes well with the other classes in the game.

- Increase Thief/Ele/Guarding -after some other changes obviously- HP to mid-range and bring down Warrior/Necro so hp is a little more normalized.)

- Remove auto attack, make it just a chain-attack button that continues its chain even if it doesn’t hit anything.

Anything like this stuff, I know you’ll make big tuning patches, but will you ever make big game CHANGES? Just curious!

Wait, what do you mean like Necro used to be?

Necro has always been spammy.

Anyway, I’m not sure Anet or the Devs is willing to do that. It seems like they’re dead set on slow and steady now…. although they were already going slow, now just slow-er lol.

I don’t the problem was “big changes being bad” so much as it was just “poor decisions” like power creep, and they probably just see “OMG THOSE BIG CHANGES RUIN GAME BAD BAD!!” and are now in super “shave” mode, they got the wrong message, which I think happens often with Anet.

I don’t think it’s ever economically practical to re-design a game from the ground up after launch. Things like re-making thieves to a cooldown profession like the others, or adding quasi-healer builds, would take a ton of resources, make balance very bad until the changes could be assimilated, and wouldn’t necessarily even make the game better. (I like having no healers, and most thieves would tell you they’ll take initiative over cooldowns any day of the week.)

My philosophy is that if I realize I don’t actually enjoy the core gameplay of something I’m playing, it’s time to leave. I don’t think it’s a good idea to stick around because a game has “potential.” That’s like saying you’ll keep eating at a certain restaurant even though you hate the food because you feel it has potential (while leaving comments in the suggestion box that it should serve Chinese food instead of Mexican food…)

tl;dr a game cannot practically change to something entirely different than what it is. If you don’t like the game but think it would be fun if it were very, very different, and hope it undergoes massive changes, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

Knote.2904:

Wait, what do you mean like Necro used to be?

Necro has always been spammy.

Anyway, I’m not sure Anet or the Devs is willing to do that. It seems like they’re dead set on slow and steady now…. although they were already going slow, now just slow-er lol.

I don’t the problem was “big changes being bad” so much as it was just “poor decisions” like power creep, and they probably just see “OMG THOSE BIG CHANGES RUIN GAME BAD BAD!!” and are now in super “shave” mode, they got the wrong message, which I think happens often with Anet.

Oh what I meant by the necro thing was that there were several spells that were slower casts, and things like focus are still 3/4 casts and 1 1/4 casts respectively, which are able to be reacted to (yes necros do need less still as long as everyone else was slowed down too), but it was much more interesting to fight than 1/2 this, 1/4 this and instant that. Everything is burst, blind dodge and little to no “skill”. (Hence the terms Build Wars, and Burst wars, and Bunker wars.)

NevirSayDie.6235:

I don’t think it’s ever economically practical to re-design a game from the ground up after launch. Things like re-making thieves to a cooldown profession like the others, or adding quasi-healer builds, would take a ton of resources, make balance very bad until the changes could be assimilated, and wouldn’t necessarily even make the game better. (I like having no healers, and most thieves would tell you they’ll take initiative over cooldowns any day of the week.)

My philosophy is that if I realize I don’t actually enjoy the core gameplay of something I’m playing, it’s time to leave. I don’t think it’s a good idea to stick around because a game has “potential.” That’s like saying you’ll keep eating at a certain restaurant even though you hate the food because you feel it has potential (while leaving comments in the suggestion box that it should serve Chinese food instead of Mexican food…)

tl;dr a game cannot practically change to something entirely different than what it is. If you don’t like the game but think it would be fun if it were very, very different, and hope it undergoes massive changes, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

That’s not entirely true. Take WoW for an example. It completely changed Talents and how they worked like 5 times, WOTLK and early Cata were peaks of the game, too. Also they’ve had HUGE class rehauls in expansions where their entire gameplay changed, and generally -to make the game deeper- (like adding more class mechanics), and it paid off. When you own a business you gotta be able to take risks and go with you gut IF you believe it’ll benefit the long-run. And honestly, I think GW2 needs that because people are so bored with the game right now they foam at the mouth just to have basic class changes so something gets a little shook up. I think having an expansion of sorts that really changed some core mechanics that haunt the game into something better would at least give people something to look at and play with for a while.

ronpierce.2760:

That’s not entirely true. Take WoW for an example. It completely changed Talents and how they worked like 5 times, WOTLK and early Cata were peaks of the game, too. Also they’ve had HUGE class rehauls in expansions where their entire gameplay changed, and generally -to make the game deeper- (like adding more class mechanics), and it paid off. When you own a business you gotta be able to take risks and go with you gut IF you believe it’ll benefit the long-run. And honestly, I think GW2 needs that because people are so bored with the game right now they foam at the mouth just to have basic class changes so something gets a little shook up. I think having an expansion of sorts that really changed some core mechanics that haunt the game into something better would at least give people something to look at and play with for a while.

Fair point.

NevirSayDie.6235:

My philosophy is that if I realize I don’t actually enjoy the core gameplay of something I’m playing, it’s time to leave. I don’t think it’s a good idea to stick around because a game has “potential.” That’s like saying you’ll keep eating at a certain restaurant even though you hate the food because you feel it has potential (while leaving comments in the suggestion box that it should serve Chinese food instead of Mexican food…)

This. Making “big changes” to the game like so many want would result in something that isn’t GW2. If you don’t like GW2, if you don’t enjoy it, the only logical thing for you to do is not play it.

GW2 is never going to become something it isn’t. Certain things might change, like the weakness change, but that is going to be the biggest of the “big” changes you’ll see. They aren’t going to entirely redesign the game, for better or worse, because it would be economic suicide to do so at this point. They are actually better off from a capitalistic standpoint of going forward with a “bad” game (coughWoWcough) and doing the most they can with it, than trying to make something new.

WoW never remade their entire game. There was no point where they just said, you know what we don’t need? Dedicated healers. Lets remove them from the game. Oh and while we’re at it, we’re going to change every single piece of gear you have, because we’re removing a stat from the game. Oh, and since dedicated healing was so core to the game, we’re redesigning every raid boss. Oh yeah, PvP too, that is all going to have to change, since now the healing every class relied on is gone its just a DPS race. And since we got rid of stats, we’re going to need to change how all your base skills work, since they can’t rely on the same stat input.

WoW made big changes, but what you are asking for is for them to go before alpha and rethink everything. The game, with the changes you asked for, wouldn’t even be something you would see in a beta-development stage. This is an impossible task that would put ANet deep into the red, lose them 90% of the game population they have now, and put us back 4 years or more in game development time. Its just not feasible, nor desirable at this point.

NevirSayDie.6235:

ronpierce.2760:

That’s not entirely true. Take WoW for an example. It completely changed Talents and how they worked like 5 times, WOTLK and early Cata were peaks of the game, too. Also they’ve had HUGE class rehauls in expansions where their entire gameplay changed, and generally -to make the game deeper- (like adding more class mechanics), and it paid off. When you own a business you gotta be able to take risks and go with you gut IF you believe it’ll benefit the long-run. And honestly, I think GW2 needs that because people are so bored with the game right now they foam at the mouth just to have basic class changes so something gets a little shook up. I think having an expansion of sorts that really changed some core mechanics that haunt the game into something better would at least give people something to look at and play with for a while.

Fair point.

WoW also 100x more cash each month to make this sorta thing happen. Gw2 is box price only and gems if you want..what your saying is akin to apple vs not-for-profit company and how they fund massive overhaul. The major reason players are bored is because there is only one game mode. Do the same thing over and over again and you’re only going to get what you’ve always had…which is repetition. Familiarity breeds contempt they say.

Well if you guys read, some of these changes aren’t THAT huge (some are) but others aren’t as far as how the code falls, much of it is just changing numbers that have a huge impact.

(Unlike the Thief change which would be a really huge change.)

ronpierce.2760:

Well if you guys read, some of these changes aren’t THAT huge (some are) but others aren’t as far as how the code falls, much of it is just changing numbers that have a huge impact.

(Unlike the Thief change which would be a really huge change.)

Some yes, others like adding an actual healer class and redoing conditions are massive changes that would require a full rework of not just the mechanics involved, but would most likely need full reworks of most core pieces of the game.

Bhawb.7408:

ronpierce.2760:

Well if you guys read, some of these changes aren’t THAT huge (some are) but others aren’t as far as how the code falls, much of it is just changing numbers that have a huge impact.

(Unlike the Thief change which would be a really huge change.)

Some yes, others like adding an actual healer class and redoing conditions are massive changes that would require a full rework of not just the mechanics involved, but would most likely need full reworks of most core pieces of the game.

Well to be fair, Shout Warrior healers are a pretty real thing, already, and they already stated they want support (which was supposed to be its own role in the GW2 trinity) to be better at supporting. I don’t think it’s really that far out there to increase combat-healing to reliable levels as long as the heals effect the caster a bit less than they do others. Its more in place than you think, just not quite viable enough yet.

Bhawb.7408:

This. Making “big changes” to the game like so many want would result in something that isn’t GW2. If you don’t like GW2, if you don’t enjoy it, the only logical thing for you to do is not play it.

Tragically, MMOs build around what sells.
It doesn’t matter for jack kitten, to the developers or managers, what ‘is GW2ish’ as long as they make a game people love and get paid for it.

Anyways, these guys are incapable.
Everything they’ve done has been half-ast for some reason or other…

Balance…
Maps…
Leaderboards…
Matchmaking…
Rewards…

It’s like somewhere in the middle of alpha they lost any hope of this game succeding and so bailed, cutting like all funding, and so high paid, cough capable cough, staff.

Bhawb.7408:

ronpierce.2760:

Well if you guys read, some of these changes aren’t THAT huge (some are) but others aren’t as far as how the code falls, much of it is just changing numbers that have a huge impact.

(Unlike the Thief change which would be a really huge change.)

Some yes, others like adding an actual healer class and redoing conditions are massive changes that would require a full rework of not just the mechanics involved, but would most likely need full reworks of most core pieces of the game.

Did he say adding a healer “class”? Lol.

It’s something I’ve been saying to remove bunkers and create “supports”, actually.

Nerfing self sustain and buffing usage for support skills on others instead.

Games like LoL and DotA don’t have pure healers either you know..

And there’s nothing about reworking conditions completely, just retuning them so they require some thought to make the game actually have some ounce of strategy in the combat..

That’s not going to make GW2 not GW2 lol……