Guild Wars 2

Its a legit question not a qq considering my mains are those 2 classes and all I ever fight is well those.

if a class even has a slight advantage, or hell, if its percieved as having one by the masses, you will see a flood of them in spvp due to the unique nature of arena nets pvp (auto level to 80, given gear, etc)

yes there are aspects of each that need nerfing/adjusting/fixed. tho not to the extent many would have you believe.

Thief = yes. Mesmers, not sure yet.

Invisibility is the biggest issue imo, these 2 classes happening to be the only ones with constant access to it. The ability to deal damage and then avoid recoil… constantly having the “first attack” advantage is just too strong imo.

Now that I think about it I don’t think the problem is that Thief or Mesmer is very OP its that they are so practical why wouldn’t some one play the?. As far as Mesmer goes imo just about any build is practical. Thief on the other hand requires the least amount of time to get your hands on the class and start performing. I don’t think either of these is a bad thing considering I wish all classes worked like this but at the same time it is frustrating that every match is dominated (not points but the actual number of players on each team) by Thiefs and Mesmers. I usually hate playing my thief in sPvP though I run P/D.

Thieves that turn invisible multiple times and take forever to reappear are unmanageable. Also, I think initiative makes it too easy for them to spam. Any other class that misses a link in their combo will have to wait for the cool down or find a way to improvise. A thief who misses #2 dagger will just press #2 dagger again. In contrast, once a warrior misses his frenzy 100 B basically out of options. An elementalist has to put in a bunch of work switching between elements to still do less damage than thieves. Thieves have too many options, ways to open up, chase down runners, and ways to get out of danger.

Mesmers have too many tricks up their sleeve compared to most classes too. Fighting them is just too hard. I feel like I’m not even being overpowered by the other player, I’m just being overpowered by the mesmer gimmick itself. Their elite skills are sweet too. When I do manage to beat these classes 1v1 though I feel extremely satisfied, lol.

Thieves that turn invisible multiple times and take forever to reappear are unmanageable. Also, I think initiative makes it too easy for them to spam. Any other class that misses a link in their combo will have to wait for the cool down or find a way to improvise. A thief who misses #2 dagger will just press #2 dagger again. In contrast, once a warrior misses his frenzy 100 B basically out of options. An elementalist has to put in a bunch of work switching between elements to still do less damage than thieves. Thieves have too many options, ways to open up, chase down runners, and ways to get out of danger.
Mesmers have too many tricks up their sleeve compared to most classes too. Fighting them is just too hard. I feel like I’m not even being overpowered by the other player, I’m just being overpowered by the mesmer gimmick itself. Their elite skills are sweet too. When I do manage to beat these classes 1v1 though I feel extremely satisfied, lol.

No, Mesmers basically have same amount of stuff than any other classes. People seem to not realise that the class is extremely easy to take down once you reach them at melee range, blink will basically not save them.

Good engie will have as much tools as a mesmer without long cooldowns or even havin to “cast” stuff.

Mesmer is a defensive class, just look at the number of def utilities and traits, then maybe realise that if you’re not able to take one down fast, you’re just horrible.

Im playin one myself and don’t have any trouble to faceroll a mesmer in the opposite side be it on guard or on engie.

Thieves / Mesmers have stealth, alright, for that you got AoE. And once again I feel that it’s a person not playin on a pure teamplay point of view makin that kind of thread where people “who basically know everything and will lol at you because of the moa and these op phantasms” gonna simply follow the lead.

Get better guys.

@ Aelona

My rifle axe/shield warrior doesn’t have much AoE to deal with stealth. Although I see where you’re coming from by saying a good engi has enough tools to reliably deal with mesmers, in my experience warriors do not have enough tools to deal reliably with mesmers.

I’m pretty good. I’m definitely not a professional I could get better. But at this point I feel extremely comfortable saying warriors are limited when compared with mesmers and thieves.

So I will continue to get better. You should try making a warrior and reliably taking down mesmers and thieves.

Any tips about how to deal against mesmers with elementalist? Even if I am full bunker spec their pets still hit me for > 3k a shot.

There are some specs which simply do not pack the AoE against mesmers. Those are basically free kills and more or less counter whole specs.

The moa morph reliably kills the whole minion spec of the necros with one button press (to be fair, no one used these bugged minions anyway except the elite).

I would call it balanced if a mesmer had class or specs which counter them hard. However, they still can put up a fair fight with good winning chances.

thiefs needs that stealth… they are way too squishy without it, but mesmers need some fix with moa and survivability

I usually don’t have problems with mesmers (the icon being above the real one in downed state now) or pistol whip thieves but death blossom I do think needs to be toned down. It’s coming to the point where almost every other player in spvp is playing death blossom spam build… maybe take off invincibility while death blossoming ?

just a suggestion and personal 2 c

also, scorpion wire has been grabbing me through stability all day today… maybe I’m lagging hard idk – figure it shouldn’t grab and knock me down if I have anti knockdown up? right…?

Ppl should complain about 100b warriors too then and bunker engi who can take 3 ppl at a time, self ress and so on. l2p and stop complaining

Asmodean.5820:

There are some specs which simply do not pack the AoE against mesmers. Those are basically free kills and more or less counter whole specs.

The moa morph reliably kills the whole minion spec of the necros with one button press (to be fair, no one used these bugged minions anyway except the elite).

I would call it balanced if a mesmer had class or specs which counter them hard. However, they still can put up a fair fight with good winning chances.

The question is since you dont need aoe to kill anything else then a mesmer is that balanced?

“Ppl should complain about 100b warriors too then and bunker engi who can take 3 ppl at a time, self ress and so on. l2p and stop complaining”

You know, this “l2p” bully behaviour is getting old. Simply because people LOVE those specs and classes because they do not require of them what the yell always into other people’s faces: to “l2p”. Think about that.

I think thieves need to be balanced. It is as if they have no risk to their reward. The main issue I have is that there should be something that limits the need/want to just spam a skill and get wins. It is the very reason I am against an Engi grenade auto-cast. That being said, the ones who are not rolling the top one or two builds and still are succeeding seem to have some real skill. Makes me wonder if they are nerfed how much easier they will truly be.

Mesmer I am undecided on. I think there are definitely some things (lke MOA) that need to be rethought when it comes to sPVP. I do not run into allot of Mesmer who use it though. I feel like they have at least some trade off to their skills and can still be hit while they are doing most of them. That seems fair to me.

It does get extremely annoying going into every game with the same lineup of mostly thieves and Mesmer, one guardian, and nothing else though.

I think so. I play a thief as my main, and I hate all the hardseekorz spammers and death blossom losers that are besmirching the name and culture of the class that I bought this game to play.

Nerf them both, then I can play my favorite class without all the FOTM rollers ruining it for me and the rest of us who just love the thief in general.

The sooner the better Anet.

The point about unbalancing is all about profession effectiveness compared to skill level.
I’ll make a poor graph to let all you l2p guys understand one time for ever.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2zhe6hd.png

Now, is the problem clear to everyone?
Why the kitten do I have to waste time to learn my profession when I can reroll Thief, Crossfire Ranger, Guardian or Mesmer and faceroll everyone?

sorrow.2364:

The point about unbalancing is all about profession effectiveness compared to skill level.
I’ll make a poor graph to let all you l2p guys understand one time for ever.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2zhe6hd.png

Now, is the problem clear to everyone?

You win the internets and hold whatever prestige that brings.

Pimpslapper.2047:

I think so. I play a thief as my main, and I hate all the hardseekorz spammers and death blossom losers that are besmirching the name and culture of the class that I bought this game to play.

Nerf them both, then I can play my favorite class without all the FOTM rollers ruining it for me and the rest of us who just love the thief in general.

The sooner the better Anet.

Kind of sums up my thoughts but I don’t think some one is “fotm” just because they went with those builds from the start a lot of thieves wanted to be a traditional double dagger players. I cant fault them for that. However for me I play P/D if they nerf stealth they nerf me too and out side of some parts of WvW I cant really touch a D/D. That being said if it would bring it all in line then great. Honestly a cd on Heatseeker would likely be the easy fix but that could ruin D/D.

Some earlier said this was a complaint thread about the classes themselves and what about 100b warriors. Well the thing is this isn’t so much about thief pawning which they tend to do and more about sPvP being flooded with them. I don’t see a point in crying about getting beat considering it happens all the time and I don’t think any of us need a game to stroke our egos. Their will always be some one who is better at it than you thats the way things are. However what happens when it stops being fun? Match in match out thieves doing seeker blossom spams. Among the warriors I have fought I have seen 100b less than 5 times so I cant complain.

So to make a long response more compact its not so much about the fact that we tend to lose to the build but the fact it seems to be the only build that thieves run and that their are so many of them thats it.

I really hope they will do something with the stealth delay, that alone will help a great deal against thieves. Next imo is death blossom, I usually defended thieves when my friends got killed by them, I always felt like there was something that could have been done, but not on death blossom.

What can you do when on every skill you get “evaded”? How do you counter it?

TheGuy.3568:

Pimpslapper.2047:

I think so. I play a thief as my main, and I hate all the hardseekorz spammers and death blossom losers that are besmirching the name and culture of the class that I bought this game to play.

Nerf them both, then I can play my favorite class without all the FOTM rollers ruining it for me and the rest of us who just love the thief in general.

The sooner the better Anet.

Kind of sums up my thoughts but I don’t think some one is “fotm” just because they went with those builds from the start a lot of thieves wanted to be a traditional double dagger players. I cant fault them for that. However for me I play P/D if they nerf stealth they nerf me too and out side of some parts of WvW I cant really touch a D/D. That being said if it would bring it all in line then great. Honestly a cd on Heatseeker would likely be the easy fix but that could ruin D/D.

Some earlier said this was a complaint thread about the classes themselves and what about 100b warriors. Well the thing is this isn’t so much about thief pawning which they tend to do and more about sPvP being flooded with them. I don’t see a point in crying about getting beat considering it happens all the time and I don’t think any of us need a game to stroke our egos. Their will always be some one who is better at it than you thats the way things are. However what happens when it stops being fun? Match in match out thieves doing seeker blossom spams. Among the warriors I have fought I have seen 100b less than 5 times so I cant complain.

So to make a long response more compact its not so much about the fact that we tend to lose to the build but the fact it seems to be the only build that thieves run and that their are so many of them thats it.

Good points. When you join an 8v8 and it is 5 mesmers, 5 thieves, and 3 guardians with a ranger or two, there is something wrong. Though, I am seeing a lot more necros these days, and they are all doing really well point wise.

I happen to play a D/D backstab build, it is what I always play. Heartseeker needs a CD, even 2 or 5 seconds and damage reduced by half, I do not care, because I only use it as it is intended…a finisher (though I have no issues spamming it where appropriate on mesmers and guardians…) But, it should not be spammable by any means.

I honestly think the stealth in this game is fine. The only thing they could and maybe should nerf is shadow refuge, could reduce the time in stealth on that, would probably make sense, but the rest is fine, IMO.

I am only level 18 pvp but have a lot of those games on my ranger as well, and a fair few now on my necro, and tbh, the stealth in this game is quite easy to counter:

1. don’t stand still when you see someone go into stealth (DUH?)
2. Dodge, Evade, roll…
3. AOE…once again, AOE…and lastly, AOE.
4. Be aware of your environment…know where the enemy thieves are and if they are engaged or if they are lurking…if they are lurking watch out. Sounds like dumb advice, but I cannot tell you how many people I come across that just are so focused on Biiiiirrrrrrssttting down one player they do not even notice when I approach, even out of stealth.

Spam your tab button if you are alone 1v1 and you will target him just before he comes out of stealth, you will also see a little wisp of black smoke just before he de-stealths, use this time to get the upper hand…chill, slow, cripple, and dodge if he is a HS spammer noob.

Anyway, as I said before, Anet should probably do something soon about this.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying thieves don’t need tweaking, but it is mainly the pistol whippers, HS spammers, and the death blossom abusers who need it. I think once Anet sorts those, the stealth complaints will drop dramatically.

sorrow.2364:

Why the kitten do I have to waste time to learn my profession when I can reroll Thief, Crossfire Ranger, Guardian or Mesmer and faceroll everyone?

Crossfire Ranger? Lol.

To compare a Ranger with a SB to Guardians, Mesmers and Thieves is just uneducated.

Stealth, Heartseeker Strike, and Thieves are not the issue.

There’s a reason why you’re seeing Necros rise as a well-preforming pub stomper.

Right now there the strongest AoE condition class out there, in a build state that has AoEs on the weak side, and they’re a hard counter to glass cannons like your heartseeker, stealth thief, and your phantasm mesmer.

In pro gaming, that’s what we call a meta shift.

Don’t nerf paper, buff scissors.

Imix.6152:

Invisibility is the biggest issue imo, these 2 classes happening to be the only ones with constant access to it. The ability to deal damage and then avoid recoil… constantly having the “first attack” advantage is just too strong imo.

while that is a sharing factor there are so many other issues to come out and call one the deciding factor is just not possible.

i cant speak for mesmers but for thieves

we have a rather simple system compared to things like elementalists.

it allows bad players to “spam” and good players to take advantage of a flexible combat system

we have stealth bugs (in favor of thief)

glass cannon backstab build while being the worst build for getting glory or team fights, can still oneshot someone everyu 45 seconds and needs addressed in such a way that doesnt hurt thieves spec diversity in the long run

just to name a few things.

lets get the bugs fixed, then the unbalanced skill addressed eh?

the stealth bugs do provide a real issue tho. i dont think either class would pose nearly the problem to people if that was addressed.

No, they don’t.

What ruins PvP is stealth. It’s just way too powerful as things stand. There’s no point in these guys bothering with survivability since they can just stealth and effectively prevent any kind of damage which isn’t AoE based. I’m really disappointed in ArenaNet for implementing this broken version of stealth after having successfully avoided it for the original Guild War’s entire lifespan. This is not a good mechanic no matter how you look at it.

I’m sure it will get revamped eventually but the question is it will be a matter of too lite, too late.

Stealth is not an issue.

Again, Traps and AoE’s are under-preforming in many cases and once they’re properly buffed you’ll be laughing at your previous stealth problems.

Note that there are a good number of CC skills that are no-target skills, which can knock down a stealth target causing them to ruin the defense of theirs stealth as well.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Note that there are a good number of CC skills that are no-target skills, which can knock down a stealth target causing them to ruin the defense of theirs stealth as well.

You’d have a valid point if it knocked them out of stealth which it by all means should.

And yet it doesn’t. Using stealth currently requires zero intelligence since there is no counter to the stealth itself. I’d love to see certain skills be revamped into anti-stealth skills.

Seriously, first its the damage that is the problem, and now the stealth? Stealth ain’t the issue here, it is that people do not know how to counter it…AOE is your friend.

Agreed on thief/mesmer nerfs, but they should leave stealth like it is and fix it before they decide to do anything else to it.

The problem is … since you are squishy as Hell if you are playing thief you’re meant to have Stealth because if not you’d just be dead in a few seconds. Did you ever play thief and face a warrior or any other class? you’d just be dead in seconds if there wasn’t a stealth to get you out of target :/

As it stands right now you’re supposed to play a Glass Cannon thief to be most effective. and Glass Cannon = Low Health = Stealth needed … not to mention I die in just seconds on my Thief if I don’t play him Glass Cannon because I still lack in defence.

We got Stealth while for example the

Warrior got 2x Endure Pain + Shield Block …

Ranger can put the dmg on his pet to receive 0 dmg …

Necro got his death shroud and his annoying Plague Ultimate (where I feel Necro still is the most UP class even with that since it has such a long CD and the Death Shroud needs to be charged 1st) …

Mesmer got stealth + teleport + clones …

Eingineer just doesn’t die if played bunker and can put himself 2x into Elixir for no CC/dmg not to mention how hard he can CC you…

Elementalist.. well I’m not sure about this yet because most of them suck but as soon as you face a good bunker one that stacks you with hardcore bleeding and burn conditions you’re just lost.

Elementalist.. well I’m not sure about this yet because most of them suck but as soon as you face a good bunker one that stacks you with hardcore bleeding and burn conditions you’re just lost.So if you flame stealth you should at least say something which could help to improve stealth or anything that would or could be better then stealth for the Thief. Because if the Thief does lose his stealth he’d just be unplayable right now.

Thieves are fine (i do not play one) being squishy as hell,Mesmers need fixing although to be fair if they remove their ability to stealth while resetting the marked target as well,which is a massive advantage in messy 2v2 fights,and allow them to only teleport,it’d be fair enough for me.What ruins PvP for me is the chain CC (i just got knocked back 5 times in a row…),and carrying 1 skill with Stability is far for a workaround.Good points so far,it just shows day by day how pretty much everything was designed for mostly PvE in mind,sadly.

The problem is rather that the overpowered state of stealth enables those glass cannon builds with zero investment in actual survivability and teaches thieves to play poorly since they’ve always got stealth to fall back on. If stealth was fixed and given actual counters ArenaNet could start working on making more thief builds viable but as long as it remains this ultimate defense without a direct counter the nerfs will keep piling on.

Hunter’s shot for example could easily be revamped into disabling stealth for its duration. With actual counters stealth will stop being this huge issue and we can start addressing class balance on a more serious level.

Thieves yes, mesmer no.

Once Anet fixes the renderring issue with thieves’ chained stealth, they shouldn’t be a problem. In the first couple weeks of launch, there wasn’t a renderring issue and I was able to fight and deal with every thief I encountered but now I end up getting hit and killed by invisible thieves that I can’t fight back. As for mesmers, AOE’s kills their clones and illusions.

RIght now IMO bunker guardians and bunker elementalist (yes bunker) are more of a pain than any other class atm.

kittenon.8572:

Thieves are fine (i do not play one) being squishy as hell,Mesmers need fixing although to be fair if they remove their ability to stealth while resetting the marked target as well,which is a massive advantage in messy 2v2 fights,and allow them to only teleport,it’d be fair enough for me.What ruins PvP for me is the chain CC (i just got knocked back 5 times in a row…),and carrying 1 skill with Stability is far for a workaround.Good points so far,it just shows day by day how pretty much everything was designed for mostly PvE in mind,sadly.

Tbh I am a lil shocked at all the cc but I see its place. The weapons with strong cc are in survivability lines most notably hammer for guardian and warrior. They are meant to control since they lack the burst of Great Sword and other weapons of this type. That being said considering how strong burst is if you add in all that cc their isn’t much you can do. I have had it happen to me before and I have done it before.

One thing that does get to me and deserves a post all to it self is how the company that pioneered having skills work differently in PvP and PvE rather differently on players than mobs manged to leave this game with balancing affecting pvp and pve simultaneously. IT makes no sense and its probably worth the eventual QQ.

Teknobug.3782:

Thieves yes, mesmer no.

Once Anet fixes the renderring issue with thieves’ chained stealth, they shouldn’t be a problem. In the first couple weeks of launch, there wasn’t a renderring issue and I was able to fight and deal with every thief I encountered but now I end up getting hit and killed by invisible thieves that I can’t fight back. As for mesmers, AOE’s kills their clones and illusions.

RIght now IMO bunker guardians and bunker elementalist (yes bunker) are more of a pain than any other class atm.

Ehhhh even without rendering its possible to chain stealth without the decoy debuff its all timing but yeah its possible but you wont see it much in PvP most of those players are getting the advantage of the legitimate issue.

They have said ele is likely too survivable that being said they are UP in just about any other build and have been pigeonholed into corner. TI could be argued that bunker anything is too strong but mind you that is point holding in the long run most wont kill a thing. In all honesty I think its fair that thy have that much survivability. Sacrifice attack you should get to live. Because each game is basically capture the flag this is more of a game design flaw than a class design flaw imho. I fear that they will nerf ele to the point it becomes nearly unplayable (which it isn’t far from now) compared to other classes.

I main a mesmer, and I consider myself very good at it. I was very successful in wow (2500 been my highest rating), and I believe Ill be very successful here. I said that I was going to play a mesmer even when everyone was telling me how underpowered they were during the beta. I love mesmer, and I love the way they fight. There are very few 1v1’s that I lose at, and in saying that, 90% of the mesmer’s I come up against are really bad. 80% of the thieves I come against are just spammers. But the good ones make for some really decent fights.

There is an influx of players thinking that mesmer’s and thieves are op. These guys are very easy to spot, and easier to beat. Against other classes, I can see how annoying it would be to play against them, simply from the illusion spamming, and bleed spamming stand point, but they should still be easy to beat for anyone who is mildly skilled at their class.

Skilled mesmer’s will still be something to qq about, even after any balance changes.

yes and a balance should have been done weeks a go

Nothing wrong with Thief’s or Mes in PvP. Do you guys realise how hard it is to not get caught playing a Thief? or How hard it can be for a mesmer to coordinate the right skills + order?

Or do you just go into SPvP, get owned by something you don’t understand, then cry OP ?

@Auron
I’m pretty sure that’s what most of the ppl do… they did never ever play the class but they get owned by it and so all they gonna do is o come to the forums to tell everyone how OP it is.

Thieves that spam skills are easymode to kill … mostly the heartseeker ones
Mesmers that don’t Coordinate the right skills in the right order are also easymode

but then suddenly there appears a whild thief backstabbing some guy that lacks in movement and what do you think he gonna do? … he comes to the forum to tell everyone how easymode Thief is and how easy it is to spam keys blabla

Play a Thief or a Mesmer in Tournament vs not random teams and then you’ll start to notice it’s not everything about 8vs8 zergfest easymode.

But I guess it will end up as always … the game will be balanced about the bad players that would attack their own mesmer clones if there would be Friendly Fire and the good players as always will need to play other professions because the ones they like to play will simply be nerfed to the ground.

You’d have a valid point if it knocked them out of stealth which it by all means should.
And yet it doesn’t. Using stealth currently requires zero intelligence since there is no counter to the stealth itself. I’d love to see certain skills be revamped into anti-stealth skills.

It doesn’t need to, really. A good AoE spread with these CCs downs any stealth-abuser unless they outright flee, and if they do, they’ve sacrificed their offense.

In many ways, stealth is predicible, especially on thieves. You watch them enough and you get an idea how most thieves move around, even when stealthed, and the best AoE builds are also centered around the caster anyways, which puts a barrier of entry for these spike damage types.

It’s just a matter of getting these non-stealthy classes to not build so glass cannon themselves. (And no, that does not means just gear toughness, have your defensive cooldowns at the ready.)

It’s my opinion that AoE’s need tweaking to be more dissuasive to some specific glass cannon builds. But beyond that, some people are just not countering the meta, which is getting so predicable my Elementalist is starting to have its way with them.

@Auron: What is hard?
Spamming CnD, Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge and Hide in Shadows to be perma stealthed when you are not attacking? Or maybe strafing around your target with Death Blossom evading all attacks?
Spamming all your clones and phantasms, coupled with your stuns and Moa Morph and than waiting for the target to die? What is the “right skills + order”?

Seriously, I just want to figure out where the hard part is.

Scarlett.1549:

I main a mesmer, and I consider myself very good at it. I was very successful in wow (2500 been my highest rating), and I believe Ill be very successful here. I said that I was going to play a mesmer even when everyone was telling me how underpowered they were during the beta. I love mesmer, and I love the way they fight. There are very few 1v1’s that I lose at, and in saying that, 90% of the mesmer’s I come up against are really bad. 80% of the thieves I come against are just spammers. But the good ones make for some really decent fights.

There is an influx of players thinking that mesmer’s and thieves are op. These guys are very easy to spot, and easier to beat. Against other classes, I can see how annoying it would be to play against them, simply from the illusion spamming, and bleed spamming stand point, but they should still be easy to beat for anyone who is mildly skilled at their class.

Skilled mesmer’s will still be something to qq about, even after any balance changes.

This man speaks the truth, most people are bad, and when 2 good people meet then a good fight occurs. You can be good with any class.

No, repetitive conquest pvp is ruining it.

Seriously, it got boring at around rank 10. At rank 20 it was mind numbing boring. Past that it just isn’t something you want to do anymore.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

But beyond that, some people are just not countering the meta, which is getting so predicable my Elementalist is starting to have its way with them.

Again, there is no countering stealth specifically. You can slap down an AoE but that doesn’t do anything about the stealth. You’re basically arguing that stealth should have no direct counter to it and all I’m asking here is why. Why not have anti-stealth skills like most other MMOs do and force thieves and mesmers to actually think a bit when it comes to stealth usage?

Ruining PvP? I doubt it, just a lot of FOTM going on right now. As you only need to get to level 2 to enjoy a class in sPvP. This will continue with any perceived overpowered or just easy to succeed with class. As soon as the word spreads, you’ll see a disproportionate amount.

And at this stage, there’s a lot of L2P still happening. A lot of people who complain about Mesmers are the people who still fall for clones. And a lot of people who complain about Thieves are the people who stop attacking when thief stealths, even when he’s rooted. I’ve seen many cases where if the enemy just continued the rotation blindly, I’d have lost hands down.

Another key element to Thief/Mersmer that IS perhaps broken is “I do damage while I’m in stealth”. Both classes can do this. Mesmer with illusions/conditions, Thief with conditions/openers. Meanwhile though, both classes rely rather heavily on this, because they don’t have the durability for anything else, and in Mesmer’s case also the mobility.

Also, both classes have arguably very strong 1v1 epic skills (Moa, Thieves’ Guild), and both classes are in general very strong in 1v1. Had they been weaker in 1v1, I guess we’d see a lot less complaints.

BUT, the corollary of being good in 1v1 is that you’ll be a victim of blame game. Suppose A runs into B, and B is a Mesmer. A loses. Is A going to blame HIMSELF for losing, even when the fault was clearly his? Can A be honest with himself enough? Doubtful. Can A admit B is perhaps a better player? Again, not bloody likely. Hence, he’ll blame B’s class for all the evil in the world.

No, but too many non player chars is, such as clones, and necro pets etc, its just chaotic and horrible to play.

esports needs to be clean and crisp with everything absolutely deliberate.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Kalar Meadia.8439:

But beyond that, some people are just not countering the meta, which is getting so predicable my Elementalist is starting to have its way with them.

Again, there is no countering stealth specifically. You can slap down an AoE but that doesn’t do anything about the stealth. You’re basically arguing that stealth should have no direct counter to it and all I’m asking here is why. Why not have anti-stealth skills like most other MMOs do and force thieves and mesmers to actually think a bit when it comes to stealth usage?

They do, actually.

Stealth innately comes with it’s own counter. It’s called a “Revealed” buff, happens if you attack while in stealth, and prevents any other stealth abilities from working for that period of time.

Also, Mesmer only has 2 active stealth skills, aside from downstate, one of them is an Elite. We do have 1 passive trait that kicks in at 25%, but it’s identical to our decoy ability. Mesmers rely more on misdirection than stealth.

Now if you’re asking for abilities on other classes that inflict the revealed stat, I can get behind that. It would add some element of play to the game. But in trade, Thief is going to have to get some damage reduction abilities in common use.

But as for saying there’s no direct counter to stealth, I’m telling you there really does not need to be. There needs to be buffs and fixes to a lot of AoE and condition sections before we make the step to automaticly assume stealth is the problem.

The many thieves that have come back from stealth downed on the ground in my games are a testimate that stealth is not the ultimate defense that needs nerfing.

Sabbathius.1465:

A lot of people who complain about Mesmers are the people who still fall for clones. And a lot of people who complain about Thieves are the people who stop attacking when thief stealths, even when he’s rooted.

Which is red herring, if you watch some of the best teams on Twitch, that clearly know what thay are doing, they do in fact complain about various OP elements in the game, I’ve seen them make comments on everything from the amount of uptime on retaliation Guards have had, the burst plus the CC of mesmer shatter builds, that portals need to be nerfed, the ridiculous damage certain skills do (and the absolute lack of skill required to do it on certain classes), etc.

Scarlett.1549:

I main a mesmer, and I consider myself very good at it. I was very successful in wow (2500 been my highest rating), and I believe Ill be very successful here. I said that I was going to play a mesmer even when everyone was telling me how underpowered they were during the beta. I love mesmer, and I love the way they fight. There are very few 1v1’s that I lose at, and in saying that, 90% of the mesmer’s I come up against are really bad. 80% of the thieves I come against are just spammers. But the good ones make for some really decent fights.

There is an influx of players thinking that mesmer’s and thieves are op. These guys are very easy to spot, and easier to beat. Against other classes, I can see how annoying it would be to play against them, simply from the illusion spamming, and bleed spamming stand point, but they should still be easy to beat for anyone who is mildly skilled at their class.

Skilled mesmer’s will still be something to qq about, even after any balance changes.

LOL
I’ve missed this piece of art. Starting listing your WoW success made your post and your opinion also more credible.
Your “everyone is bad and I’m so good because I were a WoW pro, that’s not the profession which is overpowered” attitude made me laugh.

I have never found myself in a 1v1 with either of these classes and felt them overpowered in fact I feel I have won more 1v1s against them then I have lost.

For thief’s you just need to survive the initial burst then stick to them like glue and they drop pretty fast. Mesmers are nearly the same start and when they have a bunch of clones just switch to AOE attacks.

I will agree moa needs to be toned down

for some reason auto correct wants AOE to be ale

dan.3618:

No, but too many non player chars is, such as clones, and necro pets etc, its just chaotic and horrible to play.

esports needs to be clean and crisp with everything absolutely deliberate.

Maybe makes pets have yellow names or something so people screens are not filled with many confusing red names.