Guild Wars 2

Yes, I think they’re ruining PvP because they don’t produce fun fights. They aren’t really overpowered, they just aren’t fun to fight against.

To me BWE1/2 were much more fun than live, mostly because ele and warrior were the go to classes for burst. Ele and warrior burst requires set up, there are big tells and windup time to react to, stun breaks are an effective counter because their burst has a decent cooldown and it requires the target to be stunned in order to land it, and the professions were left vulnerable if their burst failed.

That’s how high burst classes should be; thieves and mesmers just aren’t as well designed. They don’t have obvious tells, they don’t have effective counters designed into the game, and they aren’t vulnerable like a burst profession should be, because of the abundance of stealth and invulnerability at their disposal (often simultaneously built into their spike skills).

Plus I think the core design of mesmers ruins games. Clones cloud your field vision and make big plays/smart play less common by reducing all players and spectators ability to read what’s happening in a fight. it clutters and muddles what should be a clean, streamlined combat experience. Any build that brings 2-4 pets to PvP is just as guilty, but unfortunately there’s no alternative for mesmers.

PeteyPen.7136:

Mesmers have too many tricks up their sleeve compared to most classes too.

Because Mesmers are intentionally made to be an anti-player profession, just like in Gw1. Mesmers are inherently a PvP profession and therefore perform much lower in PvE. So if you think Mesmer are OP, its because it has always been a PvP class. In PvP Mesmers are working as intended.

EDIT: As for Thiefs I cannot say because I have not encountered them much in PvP. As far as I can tell, they have high ammounts of spike damage and devastating chains. Block/Evade skills dont help much because they’ll only negate one attack within a long chain of high damage attacks.

Lawbringer.1956:

These two classes are very op, even in WvW, they are worse, either perma stealth + 1 shots, or millions of clones + 1 shots, how these classes made it out of beta is astonishing

Perma stealth is not possible, if for no other reason than the revealed effect.
If a mesmer can 1 shot you, you’re doing something horribly wrong.

Can I get a list of videos of people beating mesmers in 1 v 1s. I am interested in seeing these so I can learn because I often find myself running away/losing versus a mesmer.

Without proof of combat I will just assume 99% of the people on forums are just simple forum warriors.

Luka.6831:

PeteyPen.7136:

Mesmers have too many tricks up their sleeve compared to most classes too.

Because Mesmers are intentionally made to be an anti-player profession, just like in Gw1. Mesmers are inherently a PvP profession and therefore perform much lower in PvE. So if you think Mesmer are OP, its because it has always been a PvP class. In PvP Mesmers are working as intended.

EDIT: As for Thiefs I cannot say because I have not encountered them much in PvP. As far as I can tell, they have high ammounts of spike damage and devastating chains. Block/Evade skills dont help much because they’ll only negate one attack within a long chain of high damage attacks.

I’ve discussed this with my mates plenty of times. The problem I find with mesmers is that they are designed for messing with people. So from a class design perspective they are stronger. Again this is just my opinion.

I normally avoid balance discussions and allow the developers to do what they believe is right, but this case is different. I’m playing a Greatsword Warrior, and while other people may take issue with that, I’ll say this: My warrior can be easily countered. No, seriously, its actually not all that hard. We do not mess with your mind like a Mesmer or a Thief.

In my opinion, games should really start looking at the League of Legends mentality, with one thing in particular: How “fun” a character is should also be determined by how you fight against them. Evading 100b from other warriors is fun, and a good demonstration of who is the better player between us. But spending 90% of the time trying to figure out where my enemy is, while they are melting my face, is never an enjoyable experience.

There is a reason why everyone hated Rogues in WoW. They could fight and kill you, and if your trinket was on cooldown, there was very little you could actually do about it. Its different in Guild Wars 2. Why? You never even get to see a Thief, unless he decides to take off several thousand blocks of health at a time, and then go back invisible like it never happened. Even when you come close to killing them, it is so difficult to actually finish the job, because it is so simple for them to escape. Stealth and burst is never a good mix.

Mesmers are just plain infuriating. I want to fight another player and test my abilities against them, not play whack a mole with a horrible game mechanic. I can respect that this is a difficult class to use and should have a higher reward for playing well, but this does not give the class the right to invalidate most other builds. There is a reason why Mesmers and Thieves are so common in sPvP and tPvP. They have excellent damage and control, and while squishy, still have effective defense mechanisms and “oh kitten” buttons.

Now, dont get me wrong, I’m not some excellent player with an opinion that warrants attention – but I am experienced with games in general. With that said, it does not take a professional or some kind of genius to figure out just how ridiculous these mechanics actually are. How can we enjoy the game when someone is playing with our heads?

So, for the love of gaming, factor the idea of “fun” into fighting the class, not just playing it. If I lose a duel with another player, I want to lose to them because they are better than me, and then learn because of that. Not because they have a class that is considered better.

Hopeless.8195:

Luka.6831:

PeteyPen.7136:

Mesmers have too many tricks up their sleeve compared to most classes too.

Because Mesmers are intentionally made to be an anti-player profession, just like in Gw1. Mesmers are inherently a PvP profession and therefore perform much lower in PvE. So if you think Mesmer are OP, its because it has always been a PvP class. In PvP Mesmers are working as intended.

EDIT: As for Thiefs I cannot say because I have not encountered them much in PvP. As far as I can tell, they have high ammounts of spike damage and devastating chains. Block/Evade skills dont help much because they’ll only negate one attack within a long chain of high damage attacks.

I’ve discussed this with my mates plenty of times. The problem I find with mesmers is that they are designed for messing with people. So from a class design perspective they are stronger. Again this is just my opinion.

Yes, Mesmers are an anti-player profession by design. You are correct. Thats why they suffer in casual PvE. Are they impossible to kill? No, just harder to kill 1v1. I believe you can counter them with timing and skill.

Luka.6831:

Hopeless.8195:

Luka.6831:

PeteyPen.7136:

Mesmers have too many tricks up their sleeve compared to most classes too.

Because Mesmers are intentionally made to be an anti-player profession, just like in Gw1. Mesmers are inherently a PvP profession and therefore perform much lower in PvE. So if you think Mesmer are OP, its because it has always been a PvP class. In PvP Mesmers are working as intended.

EDIT: As for Thiefs I cannot say because I have not encountered them much in PvP. As far as I can tell, they have high ammounts of spike damage and devastating chains. Block/Evade skills dont help much because they’ll only negate one attack within a long chain of high damage attacks.

I’ve discussed this with my mates plenty of times. The problem I find with mesmers is that they are designed for messing with people. So from a class design perspective they are stronger. Again this is just my opinion.

Yes, Mesmers are an anti-player profession by design. You are correct. Thats why they suffer in casual PvE. Are they impossible to kill? No, just harder to kill 1v1. I believe you can counter them with timing and skill.

Indeed, maybe I might sounds like a kitten but I don’t give a rat’s kitten about pve. I bought GW2 for pvp.

My problem with mesmer being that if 2 equally skilled gamers fight each other 1 v 1 I would like for both of them to have a chance to win (mind this is impossible since no game can be 100% balanced) but as I see GW2 at the moment is that mesmers give out a lot in both 1 v 1 and they also work well with a group.

Mesmer and thief are very powerful profession, especially in spvp. Guardian and warrior are too, but much less people complains about it. Why? Because mesmer and thief have a “strange” way to play. You bloody well know what happens when a warrior stays in front of you with a greatsword, he’s gonna pop hundred blades and you die if you stay still. Being based on a much more complex mechanic (stealth, surprise and confusion) thiefs and mesmers are a way harder to beat for a “casual player” who never tried them. I used to say, when i played WoW, that the only way to know a class well enough to counter even the most skilled players is to play it. People facing mesmers are nuked by their condition damage and they probably can’t event hit the real one once, if they don’t know how a mesmer plays. I play it a lot and i find quite simple with my guardian or my ranger to tear them down, i’m quite fond of saying that nowdays, after 1 month practice, i’m almost never ending hitting the clones.

So the major problem with these professions is, imo, that most people does not know how to effectively face them. It’s not the game itself that is not balanced, what probably is not balanced is the skillcap needed to counter some classes. But ANET has nothing to do with the skill of the players. You can’t fight a mesmer? Play it, play it a lot, soon or later you’ll learn how they play and how to beat them.

Never thought this thread would go on this long. Like I said from the start this was less of a QQ thread and I wanted ti to be about how under populated the other class are. The honest truth is the more you play the more you see it coming and the better you get at avoidance and pacing. On P/D the vast majority of thieves (in 1 on 1 situations of course) running D/D spike will lose. I am not some great player its just the more time you spend fighting them the less surprises there are. And it goes for Mesmer too Bunker classes etc etc. Are some things OP? Sure it always like that. Now I realize that the class doesn’t matter but the build does. I doubt we will see many changes to the demographics because Ele and Engi have high skill caps in the long run. Everything else that inst burst or bunker is simply undesirable. So atm I doubt we will see much change but look on the bright side the tricks never change with burst.

Arheundel.6451:

You guys are wasting time trying to explain balance to people who defend mesmer…truly a waste of time…how can you have a civil conversation with somebody who dare to say that people are too stupid to recognize real mesmer after 3 BW and 1.5 month playing ?

You cant. They revert to the same parroted one-liners that have been used in any MMO which all had dumb, easy, overpowered or ridiculous classes. Here we get my favorite, the new ‘its not OP just dodge it’ as an added bonus.

They want to think that they are owning because of their skill, instead of their classes skills.

>Use fire and forget spells that follows your target even if you click your spells staring at your ability bar
>Tell other people to ‘get better’

>Automatically teleport to your target or passively avoid all attacks when using an attack
>Feel skilled

Epicninja.8429:

yes. kitten classes are broken

http://i45.tinypic.com/34s0br7.jpg

does that look fun to fight?

The other team has 0 of either class on their team. That was just bad luck.

lolwat

14 players

4 mesmers
3 warriors
3 thiefs
2 guardians
1 ele
1 necro

Doesnt seem weird at all right. Those upper 4 classes sure dont look familiar. And luckily thief and mesmers arent 50% of the players in that game.
You could fill an entire team with just thiefs and mesmers in the pic there after an auto balance.

If certain professions are truly ruining PvP the best thing the community can do at this point is issue a soft-ban against them.

Don’t play them and refuse to play against any team that’s using them.

The best way to get a point across in PvP is to refuse to play.

Boloth.6879:

If certain professions are truly ruining PvP the best thing the community can do at this point is issue a soft-ban against them.

Don’t play them and refuse to play against any team that’s using them.

The best way to get a point across in PvP is to refuse to play.

So you are suggesting to not doing PvP at all. Seems legit.

Boloth.6879:

If certain professions are truly ruining PvP the best thing the community can do at this point is issue a soft-ban against them.

Don’t play them and refuse to play against any team that’s using them.

The best way to get a point across in PvP is to refuse to play.

I don’t thin that would work in this game as each profession has a build that is considered OP by the community.

Dont forget that the Mesmer has had many nerfs and continues to do so (and at the expense of PvE performance). So I think they are definitely trying to keep it in line, without damaging PvE too much, or Mesmer concept, being the “anti player” class in both games. Also dont forget that many Mesmer traits are broken and still dont function correctly. Overall I think Thief deserves at least as many nerfs.

Only class I’ve played in GW2 is a Thief. I’ve pretty much only done sPvP the entire time since release on a casual playtime.

I can see ‘steath’ being annoying to non-thieves. Annoying in the fact we have an escape from the instant kill you are about to bestow on us. Stealth is our main line of defense, without using stealth we die very quick.

My thief runs a solid survival build. 1.8k vit, 1.3k tough. Even with all that defense I can die instantly caught out of stealth. Take away my ability to stealth often and I may as well re-roll warrior.