I mean from a design point of view, what do designers want? given that all classes can effectively fight from range, and that there is so much CC and gap makers in this game, do Devs actually want melee focused classes?.
Not a rant but a simple question. Right this moment there is no class that can effectively depend on staying on melee combat. The rogue bypasses this by spiking damage and shadowsteping, they do not stay in melee but get in, spike, and get out. On every single video posted here, there is no one engaging or focused on Melee fighting, this is both on spvp and wvw. Is this intentional? is this the direction the devs want to take the game?.
dd ele, greatsword/swordshield warrior, some guardians….
dd ele, greatsword/swordshield warrior, some guardians….
Yeah right, because the idea of defending a pvp build and the word warrior go hand in hand…
It can be entirely possible, they just dont really care if they are viable. It would not be “wrong” per se, its a design choice.
I’m not sure why anyone would want to be melee only. the versatility of combining ranged attacks with melee attacks is fairly potent. That’s half the reason I bought the game right there.
I’m not sure why anyone would want to be melee only. the versatility of combining ranged attacks with melee attacks is fairly potent. That’s half the reason I bought the game right there.
Well for some classes it is kind of iconic, When i think ranged physical damage, its a Rogue or a Thief what comes to mind, no a warrior, much less so a Guarian/Paladin. That regarding design.
Regarding Mechanics and Valance, right now, being melee is a drawback, plain and simple. As I said before, this can be intentional, not saying i would like that, but there would be a logic behind it. It kind of comes with the territory of breaking away from the trinity, if every one can do everything, then what is a warrior but an overdressed Thief?.
(edited by Apolo.5942)
Everyone can not do everything, and build wars exists in full.
Melee can also exist but like GW1 if you want to stay in melee you pretty much need someone to support you so you don’t get rolled.
Guardian/Ele helps in that respect.
(edited by ensoriki.5789)
and build wars exists in full.
Sorry I do not understand what you meant to write. If you mean that there are viable warrior builds, I am sure some one might pull something off here and there. The norm how ever is that melee sucks. I “dare” you find on this forum, 10 videos of high level pvp play of any sort, where Melee warrior are actually present. Forget about owning, just showing up on the screen for anything other than getting massacred. All you see out there is:
Ranged Mesmer
Ranged Engineer
Ranged Elementist (big surprise there i know)
Ranged Ranger
Ranged Necro
So on so Forth
At the very most they play kite, until they can close in to spike and then kite again.
Which as i said before, can be intentional, no melee play, that’s cool, would be nice if they stated it thou.
Melee can also exist but like GW1 if you want to stay in melee you pretty much need someone to support you so you don’t get rolled.
Guardian/Ele helps in that respect.
Problem is, you get no benefit from doing this, unlike GW1, there is no dedicated support class, and what your partner does to keep your target glued in place so you can reach him, would most likely be more effective you both simply blasted away from the distance.
(edited by Apolo.5942)
and build wars exists in full.
Sorry I do not understand what you meant to write. If you mean that there are viable warrior builds, I am sure some one might pull something off here and there. The norm how ever is that melee sucks. I “dare” you find on this forum, 10 videos of high level pvp play of any sort, where Melee warrior are actually present. Forget about owning, just showing up on the screen for anything other than getting massacred. All you see out there is:
Ranged Mesmer
Ranged Engineer
Ranged Elementist (big surprise there i know)
Ranged Ranger
Ranged Necro
So on so ForthAt the very most they play kite, until they can close in to spike and then kite again.
Which as i said before, can be intentional, no melee play, that’s cool, would be nice if they stated it thou.
challenge accepted.
1: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/2120260
2: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/b/389962467
3: http://www.twitch.tv/thundercatshoooo/c/1879856
4: http://www.twitch.tv/thundercatshoooo/c/1942320
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzs6O5ktDHg
6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_XJRfHuvZQ
7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG8QWRYPf4A
8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b8xdwG-OXc&list=UUau8G2GwzAiBI5agMQxJTww&index=25
9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUAKllNSCPU&list=UUau8G2GwzAiBI5agMQxJTww&index=28
10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxyy5Q-834
(edited by Baam.2493)
I’m not sure why anyone would want to be melee only. the versatility of combining ranged attacks with melee attacks is fairly potent. That’s half the reason I bought the game right there.
Well some classes like guardian don’t really have range options. But you statement can be reversed too, should range have melee skills? There really isn’t a reason for them to do so.
Looks like somebody died in PvP.
So the first video is about an Engineer, running a grenade build, which again is a kiting ranged build, bombs are left there and the pistol, well its a pistol it fires at range. So in all honestly, this video strikes out and falls under what i described above, kiting, closing for spiking, kiting. If you meant it about the dagger elementist, yeah i grant you 3 on 1 melee builds can work, as well as anything else for that matter.
Should i sit through the others?. I do appreciate the effort how ever, if you tell me the others are different, i promise to sit and watch them.
(edited by Apolo.5942)
You asked for videos of warriors in high level PvP. You didn’t ask for warrior PoV. If you want me to get those i’ll have to find Gasmask’s youtube channel, or Hmann’s (if he has one). There are other ones that might have the warrior’s PoV be out there, but atm I can’t think of them.
Melee is a dead breed in this game. Ranged outclasses it in every single way.
Melee is a dead breed in this game. Ranged outclasses it in every single way.
I agree, but is it intentional? that i think is very important, if this is what Devs want, then complaining about it is pointless and one should just move along or move away.
Melee is a dead breed in this game. Ranged outclasses it in every single way.
I agree, but is it intentional? that i think is very important, if this is what Devs want, then complaining about it is pointless and one should just move along or move away.
Hard to tell if intentional, but it sure seems like it. Constantly seeing ranged weapons get buffs and melee get nerfed. Every class is great at shutting down the Warrior, the premier melee weapon class in the game lol.
Another reason why my playtime is close to zero at this point.
Classes in other MMOs are balanced with a clear distinction between ranged and melee classes. There is no such classification in GW2’s class/weapon system and as a result are balanced as such. The flexibility of not being just stuck in one but being able to freely hop between melee/range is an upgrade.
It’s on you if you complain about getting kited when EVERYONE can have both and avoid the situation.
Melee is viable. But you need skill to make up for it.
Classes in other MMOs are balanced with a clear distinction between ranged and melee classes. There is no such classification in GW2’s class/weapon system and as a result are balanced as such. The flexibility of not being just stuck in one but being able to freely hop between melee/range is an upgrade.
It’s on you if you complain about getting kited when EVERYONE can have both and avoid the situation.
Ah yes, you heard it here FIRST. Play longbow/rifle warrior, that will surely match up against the real ranged classes and their utter domination in this games pvp.
I’m not sure why anyone would want to be melee only. the versatility of combining ranged attacks with melee attacks is fairly potent. That’s half the reason I bought the game right there.
Well some classes like guardian don’t really have range options. But you statement can be reversed too, should range have melee skills? There really isn’t a reason for them to do so.
Except that there are no “ranged classes” and “melee classes” in GW2. There are ranged weapons and melee weapons, but every class has the ability to build around one, the other, or both. Even Guardians. All those weapons might not yet be viable in tPvP for every class but the concept is intrinsic to the design of the game and every class. Viewing classes in GW2 as ranged/melee/tank/healer would be a mistake. The trinity is gone, and so are the class limitations that came with it.
do Devs actually want melee focused classes?.
No? Where are you getting that impression? All professions have weapons and builds suitable for ranged and melee (well, maybe not a ranged Guardian). You can have both, or one or the other.
Classes in other MMOs are balanced with a clear distinction between ranged and melee classes. There is no such classification in GW2’s class/weapon system and as a result are balanced as such. The flexibility of not being just stuck in one but being able to freely hop between melee/range is an upgrade.
It’s on you if you complain about getting kited when EVERYONE can have both and avoid the situation.
Ah yes, you heard it here FIRST. Play longbow/rifle warrior, that will surely match up against the real ranged classes and their utter domination in this games pvp.
Believe it or not, some competent warriors in tPvP are still trying out other venues and I’ve seen good use of Longbow with Axe/Shield. Having the option of both melee and range doesn’t mean you must stack one of the extreme. Bring the combination that can give you the most coverage in relation to your build.
Realistically at this point, the only class that can make a fully dedicated melee build work well is the Guardian. So play that if you want to melee all day. Such is an example: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAse5dlUgyDnFyKEf4ESmCRCBxegRcUHdpwhkIA;TgAgzCooyyklILbWuskZB
(edited by Lumines.3916)
do Devs actually want melee focused classes?.
No? Where are you getting that impression? All professions have weapons and builds suitable for ranged and melee (well, maybe not a ranged Guardian). You can have both, or one or the other.
So it seems and as a result, 99% of players, shot from a distance. Still i would like a dev to make it official. People that dislike it, would just leave (like me) and people that like it, would not have to put up with this kind of threads. Until they make it official, to me this is a balance issue. If they came out and say we are happy as it stands, then so be it, my best wishes and ill leave (and i imagine a grate many will as well).
Also as it stands the problem you have is that since range can outdo melee, nobody fights melee. Period. There has to be a trade of, melee has to have a damage and control advantage over ranged once in close quarters otherwise there is simply no point for it, which is what happens now.
(edited by Apolo.5942)
and build wars exists in full.
Sorry I do not understand what you meant to write. If you mean that there are viable warrior builds, I am sure some one might pull something off here and there. The norm how ever is that melee sucks. I “dare” you find on this forum, 10 videos of high level pvp play of any sort, where Melee warrior are actually present. Forget about owning, just showing up on the screen for anything other than getting massacred. All you see out there is:
Ranged Mesmer
Ranged Engineer
Ranged Elementist (big surprise there i know)
Ranged Ranger
Ranged Necro
So on so ForthAt the very most they play kite, until they can close in to spike and then kite again.
Which as i said before, can be intentional, no melee play, that’s cool, would be nice if they stated it thou.
challenge accepted.
1: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/2120260
2: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/b/389962467
3: http://www.twitch.tv/thundercatshoooo/c/1879856
4: http://www.twitch.tv/thundercatshoooo/c/1942320
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzs6O5ktDHg
6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_XJRfHuvZQ
7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG8QWRYPf4A
8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b8xdwG-OXc&list=UUau8G2GwzAiBI5agMQxJTww&index=25
9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUAKllNSCPU&list=UUau8G2GwzAiBI5agMQxJTww&index=28
10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxyy5Q-834
None of those videos are recent.
Matter of fact theres really no youtube tpvp videos that are recent.
Melee is a dead breed in this game. Ranged outclasses it in every single way.
Wut? Okay lets see mesmers… Usually need to be in melee to get the full effect of their burst… guardian ranged damage isn’t very good and if you are playing a bunker guardian than go ahead and let them try to range you down… I have sat on a point for 5 minutes while I thief tried killing me with his short bow never even making a dent…. Sure I could have fought back but scepter in tourneys isn’t exactly the best choice so I sat there and let him waste his time while the other members of my team were facerolling the other points…. D/d ele… Garbage when it comes to range (kinda the point) but still griped about as the god build in this game… other classes/builds it can run either way… But as long as this game mode depends on fighting inside a small circle to be the winner… Melee will still be better if not necessary… Ranged can provide support and help DPS but that is about it.
Melee is a dead breed in this game. Ranged outclasses it in every single way.
Wut? Okay lets see mesmers… Usually need to be in melee to get the full effect of their burst… guardian ranged damage isn’t very good and if you are playing a bunker guardian than go ahead and let them try to range you down… I have sat on a point for 5 minutes while I thief tried killing me with his short bow never even making a dent…. Sure I could have fought back but scepter in tourneys isn’t exactly the best choice so I sat there and let him waste his time while the other members of my team were facerolling the other points…. D/d ele… Garbage when it comes to range (kinda the point) but still griped about as the god build in this game… other classes/builds it can run either way… But as long as this game mode depends on fighting inside a small circle to be the winner… Melee will still be better if not necessary… Ranged can provide support and help DPS but that is about it.
Do we play the same game? Everyone just range AoEs the point forcing the melees to get off the small circle and then the melee gets kited until he dies. Rinse and repeat.
How does a guardian effectively fight from ranged?
How does a guardian effectively fight from ranged?
Guardian has the best melee gap closer in this game than other class (GS pull and jump + their blinking + combined with hammer (or staff)). In addition guardian can make ranged become ineffective (except multiple aoe) (reflection, shield, etc + staff heal + protection + retaliation). Just play 1 and you will see it.
Do we play the same game? Everyone just range AoEs the point forcing the melees to get off the small circle and then the melee gets kited until he dies. Rinse and repeat.
*everyone: it means 1 melee versus x aoe ranged. Of course melee will get off the small circle (Actually every class will do the same.). A class can defend againts maximum 2 players, not more (except you play your class so well).
(edited by deviller.9135)
melee has higher burst. ranged has higher pressure.
this game instills shark-like mentalities—if you stop moving, you die. doesn’t matter if you are bunker or glass. by that nature, melee has a higher skill cap than ranged but you are rewarded with higher burst for shorter uptime on target.
melee has higher burst. ranged has higher pressure.
.
Yes and no way to get there to use it, other than again class like ele or rogue, that do not stick to the opponent just jump in spike jump out.
And higher spike is up for debate at this point, the warrior and the guardian do about the same damage melee than an ele or a mesmer do ranged.
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