Guild Wars 2

Thieves, after quickness nerf, are bottom tier, along with the war.

Now our only viable build has been almost killed, and the class at its CORE DESIGN offers very little versatility, even more when in November 15th the only decent alternative in competitive play ( S/D) was killed, too.

Now i know wars are in an even worse shape than thieves, but the war profession, at its core, has more options , altough subpar, while this is not thief case.

aNet , are you going to do something in order to make the thief DECENT ?

Mrbig.8019:

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

Thief is ok.
/15char

Stop the bias for a moment.

I’m also a thief, i don’t see the point anymore to have a thief instead of a DPS ele.
It’s fairly obvious.

And thieves do not have any other viable build.

So there’s no point in having a thief in a team.

I agree thief has no other viable builds, which is truly sad, but it’s still a good class. you think quickness sux now (not true)? then use assassin’s signet instead.

Take the Signet instead and stop complaining. It’s still a viable class.

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

Mrbig.8019:

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

Thief is ok.
/15char

Stop the bias for a moment.

I’m also a thief, i don’t see the point anymore to have a thief instead of a DPS ele.
It’s fairly obvious.

And thieves do not have any other viable build.

So there’s no point in having a thief in a team.

I agree thief has no other viable builds, which is truly sad, but it’s still a good class. you think quickness sux now (not true)? then use assassin’s signet instead.

I’m not saying it’s not viable, i’m simply saying it’s NOT OPTIMAL anymore.

There’s no point in having a thief when you can do EXACTLY the same with a DPS ele ( AoE burst, more team utility, faster roamer etc).

in SotG they said eles are doing thief role about roaming. Now our burst and overall damage has been reduced , so ele can also easily overcome a thief as a DPS proff.

It’s only about time, and we all know this will definitively happen .

My dps ele used to kitten on thieves and pretty much anything it encountered.

The foundation of this game requires enough redoing to just make a new one.. revert it back to the original state (like beta I mean the game wasn’t unfun or anything). Keep it imbalanced the gameplay is something like snipers in halo, first hit wins.

Then make a new game that is for the people who want balanced arena type gameplay, these are TWO different types of gameplays.

You are wanting to turn THIS ONE into THAT one, new game instead is better, then you have both types of games for both types of players.

/15char

Mrbig.8019:

Thieves, after quickness nerf, are bottom tier, along with the war.

The warrior isn’t viable anymore in pvp. So if the thief is on the same level, you could say it’s not viable anymore too. I hope when you reread it you will agree.

Thief is really hard to buff because the game gets far less fun for everyone else when he’s actually strong. He needs a mechanical rework.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mrbig.8019:

Thieves, after quickness nerf, are bottom tier, along with the war.

The warrior isn’t viable anymore in pvp. So if the thief is on the same level, you could say it’s not viable anymore too. I hope when you reread it you will agree.

Stop raging .

I understand wars are suffering and are not viable anymore in PvP, but the thief is not THAT better than them.

We’re in the same position, altough i agree wars are worse than thieves right now.

Actual meta pushes towards defense, and without quickness we can’t punish them anymore.

I main thief and.. honestly.. how can you say thief is bad? lol

Mrbig.8019:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mrbig.8019:

Thieves, after quickness nerf, are bottom tier, along with the war.

The warrior isn’t viable anymore in pvp. So if the thief is on the same level, you could say it’s not viable anymore too. I hope when you reread it you will agree.

Stop raging .

I understand wars are suffering and are not viable anymore in PvP, but the thief is not THAT better than them.

We’re in the same position, altough i agree wars are worse than thieves right now.

Actual meta pushes towards defense, and without quickness we can’t punish them anymore.

It’s actually you raging about how bad thieves are now. But sometimes, just sometimes it’s the player and not the class that is not viable.

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

I main thief and.. honestly.. how can you say thief is bad? lol

Let’s talk again we you’ll meet the first 4 eles+ guardian team.

Backstab specs (pretty much the only viable spec in tournas) can just use assassins signet now, you basically only lost quickness rez/stomps and the overthetop haste HS spam at the end of the backstab combo. Played some matches on my thief recently and signet is totally viable alternative and thief is still relevant.

Ok, i guess i was simply too impetous.

I’ll repost the same thread in a weak, we’ll see how much your attitude will change.

Give time to the ele meta to stabilize, then we’ll talk again.

Mrbig.8019:

Ok, i guess i was simply too impetous.

I’ll repost the same thread in a weak, we’ll see how much your attitude will change.

Give time to the ele meta to stabilize, then we’ll talk again.

In the current state of the game, your words unfortunately fall on deaf ears. That is because there is no actual competition even in tpvp at the moment. No reason to… as no incentives or ladder or anything else exists.

However, when leaderboards emerge… it is without question that your remarks will actually materialize. When teams begin to reform they will have to fall in line and begin playing the ONLY viable classes in the game to be competitive with other teams that will “win at all costs”. And yes – winning at all costs will mean FOUR eles (if not five) and a guardian.

The day will come, once incentives or leaderboards are established… Right now, the greatest buff the ele’s have received thus far is the death of paid tournies, the removal of QP’s, and the delay of leaderboards. With those all not present, the ele has not truly been exposed for its complete ridiculousness because teams are not actively abusing it in this state of non-competition. That will eventually change…

mursie.3681:

Mrbig.8019:

Ok, i guess i was simply too impetous.

I’ll repost the same thread in a weak, we’ll see how much your attitude will change.

Give time to the ele meta to stabilize, then we’ll talk again.

In the current state of the game, your words unfortunately fall on deaf ears. That is because there is no actual competition even in tpvp at the moment. No reason to… as no incentives or ladder or anything else exists.

However, when leaderboards emerge… it is without question that your remarks will actually materialize. When teams begin to reform they will have to fall in line and begin playing the ONLY viable classes in the game to be competitive with other teams that will “win at all costs”. And yes – winning at all costs will mean FOUR eles (if not five) and a guardian.

The day will come, once incentives or leaderboards are established… Right now, the greatest buff the ele’s have received thus far is the death of paid tournies, the removal of QP’s, and the delay of leaderboards. With those all not present, the ele has not truly been exposed for its complete ridiculousness because teams are not actively abusing it in this state of non-competition. That will eventually change…

Oh well, you could also play

3 eles+ ranger+ guard
3 eles+ mesm+ guard
3 eles+ enge+ guard
3 eles + necro + guard

Or rather, 3 eles + guard + mesm/rang/enge/necro.

Simple as it is.

weird, i don’t see any competitive team running 3 or more eles… maybe I’m playing the wrong game

Mrbig.8019:

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

I main thief and.. honestly.. how can you say thief is bad? lol

Let’s talk again we you’ll meet the first 4 eles+ guardian team.

I think I can read.

mursie.3681:

…the ONLY viable classes in the game to be competitive with other teams that will “win at all costs”. And yes – winning at all costs will mean FOUR eles (if not five) and a guardian.

It just gets worse for you right now.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

mursie.3681:

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

weird, i don’t see any competitive team running 3 or more eles… maybe I’m playing the wrong game

no, you just don’t know how to read. Reading is fundamental.

I’d say writing is fundamental, as you allrdy failed with saying warrior and thief are on the same level and after that you say thief is still a viable class.

It seems warriors are really kitten ( indeed they have a reason to be so, but this is getting ridicolous).

It doesn’t matter if warriors are WORSE than thieves, because soon even thieves will disappear, because their viability is SUB-PAR.

Basically the thief will take warrior places in pre-patch meta = it can work, but there are definitively better options.

And as soon as people start to realize this ( eles everywhere), for a thief it will be esponentially harder to have a place in a team.

As I said before, i was too hasty, we’ll talk again after a week.

I still see topteams playing thief really effective. So I’m not sure what’s the matter. They are nearly the same as before the patch.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

mursie.3681:

…the ONLY viable classes in the game to be competitive with other teams that will “win at all costs”. And yes – winning at all costs will mean FOUR eles (if not five) and a guardian.

It just gets worse for you right now.

Because you lack the understanding to comprehend what you are even arguing, I will spell it out for you.

1. Mr. Big (not mursie) creates a thread indicating viability of thief and its relative viability to warrior
2. Others disagree with Mr. Big’s statements
3. Mr. Big replies that other’s disagreement will have to wait until people run into four and five ele teams
4. I, Mursie, respond that his words fall on deaf ears. That current competition does not run an abused meta of four and five eles because no incentives exist to do such.
5. A person that can’t read says they do not see 3 and 4 and 5 ele teams.
6. I, Mursie, respond they need to read. Reading is fundamental because I explained why 3 and 4 ele teams are not currently being abused (i.e. because there are no incentives)
7. You come in and claim that my writing is in question because I authored the thread and made the comments actually made in point #1.. by Mr. Big
8. I point out that, as originally stated, reading is fundamental.
9. You take a piece of my writing, completely out of its context, and think you have made a point. You have not. Because again, you have failed to read.

what about thief is unviable except the same boring burst build?

i need to see some video about high end pvp with a venom share thief, cause someone is telling me it is viable. im skeptical

Shukran.4851:

what about thief is unviable except the same boring burst build?

i need to see some video about high end pvp with a venom share thief, cause someone is telling me it is viable. im skeptical

With the way it’s taking, soon venom share will become the “less pitiful” way to play the thief, since burst thieves will soon disappear.

So the next question is, how many venom share’s Thief are needed for taking an Ele down?

Mrbig.8019:

Shukran.4851:

what about thief is unviable except the same boring burst build?

i need to see some video about high end pvp with a venom share thief, cause someone is telling me it is viable. im skeptical

With the way it’s taking, soon venom share will become the “less pitiful” way to play the thief, since burst thieves will soon disappear.

Pretty much this… And with teams usually being full of Ele’s and Gaurdians, condi just doesnt do it. I love burst, but I would also play the condi builds if it was more than just bleed stacking, and 1 simple condition gets removed so easily, and quickly. I dont see the point when I can just run burst.

D/P Backstab burst? I havent used haste on a teef since PW back in like October.

Mr. Big, I main a thief and I have no problem insta gibbing anyone. Especially if they have CDs and are pre-engaged.

Copy and paste link for build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmKO3aS8E/5Ex2DfqTe6VgsaPo5NbJA;TUAg0EctgYQxsAA

Pretty much you can insta gib someone every ~45s. After your burst you got nothing but shortbow and evades, no evades if you had to use haste on burst only init for shortbow evades or teleports.

IMO, builds like this are the only viable build for a thief in spvp now.

I’m thiefy enough to be optimal and viable to my having fun.

Yall crazy worrying about this min/max/meta stuff.

swinsk.6410:

Mr. Big, I main a thief and I have no problem insta gibbing anyone. Especially if they have CDs and are pre-engaged.

Copy and paste link for build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmKO3aS8E/5Ex2DfqTe6VgsaPo5NbJA;TUAg0EctgYQxsAA

Pretty much you can insta gib someone every ~45s. After your burst you got nothing but shortbow and evades, no evades if you had to use haste on burst only init for shortbow evades or teleports.

IMO, builds like this are the only viable build for a thief in spvp now.

trying your build. it is a very kamikaze build, u fail, u die.
there is no way to survive a fail or survive at 1v1 against another thief (u shouldnt look for 1v1 but who knows.). maybe it kills everyone , but at what price!!!!

swinsk.6410:

Mr. Big, I main a thief and I have no problem insta gibbing anyone. Especially if they have CDs and are pre-engaged.

Copy and paste link for build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmKO3aS8E/5Ex2DfqTe6VgsaPo5NbJA;TUAg0EctgYQxsAA

Pretty much you can insta gib someone every ~45s. After your burst you got nothing but shortbow and evades, no evades if you had to use haste on burst only init for shortbow evades or teleports.

IMO, builds like this are the only viable build for a thief in spvp now.

That would ONLY work in hotjoins…it’s a very old way of thinking pouring everything into dps with absolutely no survival…not even a stunbreak or refuge? Not to mention people can easily get out of that combo nowadays…a simple dodge or tele and you’re dead because you have no defense mechanisms what so ever, especially not with the new 4s debuff.

That would be the worst build for tpvp with a team.

A couple months ago you were preaching how after the S/D nerf D/D was the only viable thief and you played D/P “knowing it was mediocre”. I believe Caed corrected you then and low and behold even before shadow shot was fixed D/P became the main thief build.
Sometimes yoi don’t know it all brah.
Last month I believe you were debating Haste vs Signet with Caed and accepted the siggy as an alternative so knowing signet is untouched how can you threat. Its not like you run anything unorthadox or uncommon.

5 eles lol go ahead I’m pretty sure even at their current state sales have counters if top play is serious 5 eles will be counter comps if it gets too common especially since char swapping is still in effect.

On a mainstream level nothing changes but a utility and possibly 1-2 traits in a line you already run. Im high positive haste is still effective at compacting damage as well gives you a slightly better than normal stomp and quicken revives.

Literally if you ran siggy you have no change but the reveal increase and that was being run successfully.

What good thief ever used haste?

Exactly, carry on, nothing to see here.

haste was fun, now is not.

Ok thieves are still viable weather you are going conditions or burst. Thief is the only class I really play and I can still be a great roamer or far assualt. If you can’t be a “Good” thief just because you are visible for one second longer, or you are losing 50% of your old attack speed buff, try another class because you suck at thief.

ensoriki.5789:

A couple months ago you were preaching how after the S/D nerf D/D was the only viable thief and you played D/P “knowing it was mediocre”. I believe Caed corrected you then and low and behold even before shadow shot was fixed D/P became the main thief build.
Sometimes yoi don’t know it all brah.
Last month I believe you were debating Haste vs Signet with Caed and accepted the siggy as an alternative so knowing signet is untouched how can you threat. Its not like you run anything unorthadox or uncommon.

5 eles lol go ahead I’m pretty sure even at their current state sales have counters if top play is serious 5 eles will be counter comps if it gets too common especially since char swapping is still in effect.

On a mainstream level nothing changes but a utility and possibly 1-2 traits in a line you already run. Im high positive haste is still effective at compacting damage as well gives you a slightly better than normal stomp and quicken revives.

Literally if you ran siggy you have no change but the reveal increase and that was being run successfully.

First of all:
I was playing D/P and saying it was mediocre due to the fact that shadow shot was mostly and hinderance since you couldn’t use it reliably and it was better off using only when rooted/chilled.
As soon as they fixed shadow shot, D/P became the perfect set.

Shadow shot was the only issue.

Moving on…

It’s not simply about the thief. Quickness nerf affected burst classes and will soon affect the whole tPvP mentality.

Pre-nerf, it wouldn’t matter how tanky you were, you knew that with a single mistake you could be blowed up by a war/thief or a time warp+war, and had to be careful since a ranger was always there for a quick stomp in order to finish you.

Now bunkers are less punished for their mistakes.

There are no more wars, thieves can’t oneshot 100% anymore and since you can no more follow with a heartsekeer, you’re totally relying on mug-backstab to crit: if one or the other does blank damage, your burst has failed ( with haste you were able to increase dagger hit volume and somehow “standardize” your burst damage without blindly relying to RNG) and rangers can no more quick stomp.

So not only they’re less punished for their mistakes, but they can also be ressed faster ( how many times a quick stomp totally negated a signet of undead/illusion of life and similar ? ).

The meta will soon push into super bunker comps + 1 or 2 high AoE damage proff ( aka 3-4 eles+ guard + random eng/ran/mes/necro), where the comp BY ITSELF counters the thief.

It’s not that hard, really.

I clicked on this thread expecting it to be about how OP thieves are. Instead it’s about how nerf bat thieves are. I alternate pretty evenly between thief and ele in tpvp and all I can say is this thread is hilarious.

Thieves are fine. Have you found the new perma stealth bug yet? You can literally stack stealth to have about 5s of stealth PERMANTENTLY. So in terms of survival they are fine. Backstab still does 10k damage instantly, heartseeker is still the same, we are all good. I wish they added the nerf they said about always giving the revealed debuff and dont allow stealth timer stacking.

so a bug make something good.
ok

debating is worthless: The answer is simple -

If $10,000 were on the line in a winner take all 5 man tourny today, without question the winning composition would be a mix of ele/guard.

If you want to debate that you believe you could win bringing your thief.. go ahead. I truly believe that if $10,000 were at stake, the only classes being played would be those 2. I don’t even think mes/engy/ranger would be brought into the discussion.

this is obviously assuming current game mode of conquest.

I know it’s very kamikaze, but once you practice with it you will understand why it owns.

First, if you own them with the burst and they die, then great. For the next 45s you should have your shortbow out almost exclusively and avoid getting in melee range.

If you fail your burst and let’s say they stun break basilisk, you have to stop bursting immediately and focus on defense. I know it sucks that you just blew all your abilities, but it’s only another 45-30s before they come up.

This build in tPvP from my experience works better there. People don’t expect you to drop them in a second. There are less people on the map which means you aren’t engaged all the time so you should have all your abilities up for a lot of the fights.

This build does not hold points. I literally run from everyone at all times. I only engage when I know I have the element of surprise or I have to engage and kill to avoid death.

I was in tPvP fighting a team call SymH and this warrior was chasing me around. I played it like I didn’t see him. I let him get in steal range, and boom! He dropped so quick it was hilarious.

My point is that builds like this are very good but you need to play very well and very smart.

You cannot just enter a melee fight. You have to be on the outskirts and using your bow. Once you find a target that is hurt or just used a cool down. That’s when you pop all your stuff, steal, and boom!

Every time I kill someone with the combo I have to do /say lol. It has nothing to do with the other people. I am /lol @ how fast they just died.

I have never seen another class with as much burst as a thief.

Anet has to be very careful when buffing thief. In my opinion, they can’t even consider it for about a year.

The reason is that thieves inspired so much hate in WvW due to culling, new players getting 1-shot, C&D abuse, perma-daze, perma-stealth, perma-contested, etc. Those issues have all been dealt with now, but hate for thieves in general remains. To a lesser extent, hotjoins experienced all-thief mode for a couple months.

In short, no matter how bad thieves are, they simply cannot be buffed until people forget about those things a little. It’s a business decision: thieves have probably made more people uninstall than anything else, and Anet would like to hold on to their playerbase if possible.

Viability: thief is fine, learn to play the class.
Diversity: having 2 specs (one requiring vastly more experience, skill, and communication/cooperation than the other – thus never being seen) is somewhat stale. However that being said the only class with true build diversity is the guardian.

Complaining about skill issues is pointless. You’re crying because you don’t have haste for your heartseeker spam post burst, requiring you to outplay people instead of face roll. Learn the class, how it plays, and what it’s capable of before whining on forums about quickness as a thief. The quickness nerf didn’t even touch backstab in terms of viability, and reduced pistol whip and unload specs to completely unplayable (not to say they were viable before).

-Caed

Narcarsis.5739:

Viability: thief is fine, learn to play the class.
Diversity: having 2 specs (one requiring vastly more experience, skill, and communication/cooperation than the other – thus never being seen) is somewhat stale. However that being said the only class with true build diversity is the guardian.

Complaining about skill issues is pointless. You’re crying because you don’t have haste for your heartseeker spam post burst, requiring you to outplay people instead of face roll. Learn the class, how it plays, and what it’s capable of before whining on forums about quickness as a thief. The quickness nerf didn’t even touch backstab in terms of viability, and reduced pistol whip and unload specs to completely unplayable (not to say they were viable before).

-Caed

the only sad thing i see in this “outplay” is that after a burst eles will laugh at you.

Shukran.4851:

I’m not even sure what you meant by this, but ele’s laugh at any class.

You cannot kill an elementalist unless he lets you or screws up severly.

A good player behind an elementalist is virtually unkillable…

i mean that thieves are CG usually so when they fail their combo they end their role. and against an ele with no combo up you can only retreat and spam shortbow. btw ele take care of you and another teammate, if he didnt kill u while u were close to him

I think this is a l2 kitten ue

Player skill is more important than class

If your complaining about Eles as a thief in a team based game then yes, learn to play your class.

Narcarsis.5739:

Viability: thief is fine, learn to play the class.
Diversity: having 2 specs (one requiring vastly more experience, skill, and communication/cooperation than the other – thus never being seen) is somewhat stale. However that being said the only class with true build diversity is the guardian.

Complaining about skill issues is pointless. You’re crying because you don’t have haste for your heartseeker spam post burst, requiring you to outplay people instead of face roll. Learn the class, how it plays, and what it’s capable of before whining on forums about quickness as a thief. The quickness nerf didn’t even touch backstab in terms of viability, and reduced pistol whip and unload specs to completely unplayable (not to say they were viable before).

-Caed

“outplay” you say.

You know perfectly you have to ALWAYS outplay any opponent as a thief to win a single 1vs1.

What if you can’t OUTPLAY your opponent ?
What if your opponent is skilled ?

You always assume you can outplay everyone, but in reality you can’t.
Having a point assuming your opponent is a baddie and you can do as you please with him is a bad start.

Anyway, my point is totally different, and i’ll repost, as always.

It’s not simply about the thief. Quickness nerf affected burst classes and will soon affect the whole tPvP mentality.
Pre-nerf, it wouldn’t matter how tanky you were, you knew that with a single mistake you could be blowed up by a war/thief or a time warp+war, and had to be careful since a ranger was always there for a quick stomp in order to finish you.
Now bunkers are less punished for their mistakes.
There are no more wars, thieves can’t oneshot 100% anymore and since you can no more follow with a heartsekeer, you’re totally relying on mug-backstab to crit: if one or the other does blank damage, your burst has failed ( with haste you were able to increase dagger hit volume and somehow “standardize” your burst damage without blindly relying to RNG) and rangers can no more quick stomp.
So not only they’re less punished for their mistakes, but they can also be ressed faster ( how many times a quick stomp totally negated a signet of undead/illusion of life and similar ? ).
The meta will soon push into super bunker comps + 1 or 2 high AoE damage proff ( aka 3-4 eles+ guard + random eng/ran/mes/necro), where the comp BY ITSELF counters the thief.
It’s not that hard, really.
_

But as i said before, i was simply too hasty.

We’ll talk again after a week and we’ll see who was right.

thieves are still fun class to play but there is NO room for a thief on 5 man tpvp since only type of gameplay is conquest.With burst spec you could roam around and try to get fast kill but now that isnt possible since everyone is playing bunker and if u dont finish your target in 2-5 sec they will fully heal up and burst you down even faster.Haste is worthless now and with 1 additional sec on revealed is making a big difference.I think that “bunker” builds need to be tuned down a bit.With that there will be a spot for thief/warrior or whoever.Thieves were never a problem in tpvp for decent player but a good elementalist/guardian will always waste alot of your time and with that you end up loosing your game. Spvp is hanging on a silk thread since meta hasnt change for last 9 months.One more thing, there is only one or two viable builds for thief same goes for the rest of classes.This game is based on idea of multiple builds and versatile teams and we dont have that.

Problem is not only quickness nerf…increased revealed debuff and caltrops nerf ruined cond dmg specs too…