Guild Wars 2

I’ve played the new map a few times, and noticed how spending all supplies in door breakers and killing the guards “by hand” is way better than splitting between tengus and skritt.

My suggestion here would be to make the guards almost invulnerable from player attacks. Tactically, a team could still choose whether to send a player as a decoy or not, so the door breakers can do their job, or if just send archers to kill guards and let skritt in.

Of course I had not enough time to really see how strong archers are, since I only played about 10 matches. But my first impression matches yours, archers seem to be pretty useless at the beginning and as long as the gates are up, you are better off summoning doorbreakers. During the final push, archers might be more valuable, but at that point just going after heroes still seems to be a better option.

No thanks. This map stalls out when you have two teams that have similar levels of skill. Going a full 15 minutes isn’t how it should end the majority of time. Especially if you cannot breakdown doors because the other team would be able to just wipe your doorbreakers and archers if they bother to defend properly.

I won 19:3 in my games, I generally suggested against spawning archers. Initially they are pretty bad, beyond that, you still need the second door open, and once you’re in you can Zerg it. They don’t hold a lot of value IMO. Maybe if they ran faster and did more damage to players to help break through a player defense I could see them being used more, until then though they just really aren’t worth the time and effort to summon. Heroes are, though.

Archers defend the doorbreakers from guards. If someone on your team clears the guards/escorts the NPCs, they don’t seem to be necessary.

I think you shouldn’t underestimate how useful archer can be. In early game in PUG, sure, archers are useless. But playing against people who know how to defend I doubt how many of your 5 bombs made it way to the gate. And as for late game, seeing one hero run into your lord room is bad enough but now he has like 5 more archers behind him. Do you feel the wave now?

Archers are useful and we depended on them moreso than doorbreakers. Doorbreakers clump and get ae’d to death and have to go all the way to the gate to damage it. Against a camping glass cannon they had a hard time surviving. Archers on the other hand shoot the gate at a much greater range, and are easier for us to defend against glass cannons, plus they don’t clump as hard.

Archers also provide un-escorted map pressure, door breakers do not if they have any NPC’s up that one shot them. If you are forced to do a 5 man defense, spawning a few archers at that moment is an effective way to draw an enemy away from offence, allowing you windows of 5v4 instead of 5v5+hero.

Draygo.9473:

Archers on the other hand shoot the gate at a much greater range, and are easier for us to defend against glass cannons, plus they don’t clump as hard.

They deal next to no damage to the gate, however.

They just need to deal heavy damage to Players. It would make them have a serious purpose. The could help break a defensive line on a push!

Moar damage to players + run faster than Doorbreakers = more valuable choice, especially late game or in a game of high defense.

I’m not sure I would agree. Doorbreakers are really good on the door, but continually spawning archers into a big group can get real OP, especially as it then frees your players up to control rest of map. Doorbreakers need that clearing player or escort, although they are obviously by far quickest way to win if the opposing team doesn’t defend against them or lacks zerker defender.

Archers are far from useless. They deal lots of instant damage to guards.
Heck, i’ve seen 1 archer solo 2 guards at the same time. They’re pretty strong.
The only change i’d add is make them ignore players, sort of like skritt do.
Other than that, they’re fine.

I’ve seen a lot of these opinions, and I have to respectfully disagree based on my experiences. The strategy that worked best was summon 2 archers for every 3 bombers. If you have even a single person defending the gate, your bombers WILL go down even with you there attacking and supporting. The archers surprisingly apply a lot of pressure against enemy zerkers trying to defend. I think a lot of people underestimate their dps.

Also, once the first door is down, the second is at like 50% and heroes start spawning, bombers become drastically less useful.

Ignavia.7420:

Draygo.9473:

Archers on the other hand shoot the gate at a much greater range, and are easier for us to defend against glass cannons, plus they don’t clump as hard.

They deal next to no damage to the gate, however.

They deal more damage than you seem to think.

Also which is better: Some damage or no damage. No damage being your door breakers are dead before they get in range.

Archers are most useful when there’s still 6 guards up after the first gate. When there’s a big push and everyone’s on the defense you may have no choice but to summon an archer or two for those guards.

There’s times when people should but don’t.

As for their damage, try getting hit by 6 archers at once. It isn’t pleasant.

Archers are pretty useless.

Players kill guards much faster and once the guards are gone, archers have no purpose. They also tend to wander too much from their lane, which delays them getting to the enemy base. In lord room fights, the miscellaneous NPCs die quickly to cleave and AoE so again the archers have little purpose.

You are not getting the good point of it.
For what i’ve seen, when the first door opens, bombs are useless for a while, so you can either use your runner to get the gards or let him pop archer for constant support.
Anyway for him to pull something else is useless.

when guards are down it’s fine to pop skritt

oiseau.6481:

You are not getting the good point of it.
For what i’ve seen, when the first door opens, bombs are useless for a while, so you can either use your runner to get the gards or let him pop archer for constant support.
Anyway for him to pull something else is useless.

when guards are down it’s fine to pop skritt

No? Just hit all the mobs and they aggro you… I’ve ran all 5 initial bombers to the lord and won in about 3 minutes before. Only time that doesn’t happen is heavy defense, but in which case I wouldn’t start spawning archers instead, I’d just clear defense a bit and start gathering supplies and push with more bombers and kill the other NPCs in the defense fight.

I don’t think they’re useless but they could use a damage buff and/or more health. I solo’d 4 of them with ease. They should be strong enough to break a bunker team. 4 of them should at the least be a challenge against a player.

uhohhotdog.3598:

I don’t think they’re useless but they could use a damage buff and/or more health. I solo’d 4 of them with ease. They should be strong enough to break a bunker team. 4 of them should at the least be a challenge against a player.

They’re designed not to be. I think the real problem with archers is their ADD. If they see a player, they’ll go for that player instead of the NPCs. I don’t think they’ll switch targets to the player, but if the players get to them first, which they normally do while defending the base, they are effectively neutralized by standing in front of them. The only way to get use from archers is by sending them into an already empty base.

FalconBeta.9185:

Archers are far from useless. They deal lots of instant damage to guards.
Heck, i’ve seen 1 archer solo 2 guards at the same time. They’re pretty strong.
The only change i’d add is make them ignore players, sort of like skritt do.
Other than that, they’re fine.

Lol no.

Archers gets easily distracted by players. If there is one defender, archers do 0 damage to guards.

They’re powerful when massed. 10, 15 archers assisting push are surprisingly effective. And they follow Thieves and Mesmers like glue, always picking up the right one and focusing down right after stealth. Once I saw 7 of them pressuring enemy Thief so hard that he couldn’t really go any offensive.

But that’s massed up. Alone or in groups of 2-3, they’re meh at best. Need some more stats and unique things, like crippling/immobilizing shots, or weakness on shot, boons to allies. Maybe ticking Aegis for Doorbreakers in range?

Rym.1469:

They’re powerful when massed. 10, 15 archers assisting push are surprisingly effective. And they follow Thieves and Mesmers like glue, always picking up the right one and focusing down right after stealth. Once I saw 7 of them pressuring enemy Thief so hard that he couldn’t really go any offensive.

But that’s massed up. Alone or in groups of 2-3, they’re meh at best. Need some more stats and unique things, like crippling/immobilizing shots, or weakness on shot, boons to allies. Maybe ticking Aegis for Doorbreakers in range?

They game’s already snowballed out of control if you can summon 15 archers. You won’t kill the lord if the whole zerg is defending it. Just win by points summoning heroes.

Archers were completely useless. I could solo all the guards 3x faster than running supply for them and hoping that nobody doesnt kill them. Only reason to use them is when all gates are already down and if u have spare supply for some reason since at this point doorbreakers are not needed

I think to some degree they aren’t as useful, especially because the NPC’s at the gates are so easy to kill.

Maybe they could be more useful, if ppl actually defended their own gate, but either the archers or the NPC’s at the gate (or both) need o be stronger for the archers to actually be viable.

they should also do more dmg to players and allot more vs guards.

Archers have a definite role in a few strategies, mainly for dealing with the guards after the first gate. That being said, there are a few changes that I think would be beneficial (really just one, taken a couple ways):

*Don’t have the archer’s aggro on Players or Player-spawned AI (like turrets, pets, minions, etc.)

Basically, give them the same AI as the hero. They’ll run forward until they encount a guard or a gate, which they’ll attack.

On a number of matches, I would have archers get stalemated because an engi dropped a thumper turret in the lane. They would stand out of range throwing arrows at it, and neither the turret nor the archers were doing any significant damage. Meanwhile, the doorbreakers run ahead to be slaughtered by guards.

They may be fine against NPCs, but they do seem to be weak against players. I remember kiting 4 around a corner to group them up and burning them down with hundred blades while taking very little damage (I was using zero amulet too). If they didn’t stop and attack players, They may be more useful, but as it is, it’s very easy to just distract them from attacking your guards.

I fully expect they will be made to 100% ignore player-spawned AI eventually…

runeblade.7514:

FalconBeta.9185:

Archers are far from useless. They deal lots of instant damage to guards.
Heck, i’ve seen 1 archer solo 2 guards at the same time. They’re pretty strong.
The only change i’d add is make them ignore players, sort of like skritt do.
Other than that, they’re fine.

Lol no.

Archers gets easily distracted by players. If there is one defender, archers do 0 damage to guards.

Which is why I clearly stated they should consider making Archers ignore players.

FalconBeta.9185:

runeblade.7514:

FalconBeta.9185:

Archers are far from useless. They deal lots of instant damage to guards.
Heck, i’ve seen 1 archer solo 2 guards at the same time. They’re pretty strong.
The only change i’d add is make them ignore players, sort of like skritt do.
Other than that, they’re fine.

Lol no.

Archers gets easily distracted by players. If there is one defender, archers do 0 damage to guards.

Which is why I clearly stated they should consider making Archers ignore players.

I dont think thats the way though… I think they’d be far more effective as a unit if they did higher damage to players so that they could be spawned to discourage turtling.

It might make archers a bit more useful if two of them spawned per channel instead of just one. That, or increase their damage or durability as others have said.

Another option might be to add something to the bases only archers can effectively destroy. The doorbreakers obviously have their doors, but the archers don’t fulfill any role that cannot be filled by players. They could for example add a cannon that puts heavy pressure on players, basically forcing them to focus them down first. I think players should still be able to deal some damage to them and the attacks should be blockable. Archers however should deal similar amounts of damage like the doorbreakers do on doors.

Archers need a serious damage buff.

ronpierce.2760:

FalconBeta.9185:

runeblade.7514:

FalconBeta.9185:

Archers are far from useless. They deal lots of instant damage to guards.
Heck, i’ve seen 1 archer solo 2 guards at the same time. They’re pretty strong.
The only change i’d add is make them ignore players, sort of like skritt do.
Other than that, they’re fine.

Lol no.

Archers gets easily distracted by players. If there is one defender, archers do 0 damage to guards.

Which is why I clearly stated they should consider making Archers ignore players.

I dont think thats the way though… I think they’d be far more effective as a unit if they did higher damage to players so that they could be spawned to discourage turtling.

100% disagree. I don’t want enemy players to hide behind npc.

If NPC did a lot more damage to players, then how would you stop archers? Players and guards wouldn’t be a threat to archers anymore.

Maybe the archers could put a debuff on the doors that allow players to do damage or increase the effectiveness of the door breakers.