As an ele main; Diamond Skin OP

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Posted by: Valoraxel.7296

Valoraxel.7296

Rather than making it so you get resistance/immunity to conditions, why not make it so conditions applied to you have a shorter duration?
E.g. Conditions applied to you have reduced duration (30%). This bonus is doubled while over 90% hp.

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

100% wrong. If you read many of the posts, they’re not even talking about nerfing the trait, but changing it so it allows more counterplay. Right now the trait shuts down some builds completely, while is useless against other builds. Reworking it would also not change the amount of support auramancer has, since the trait is 100% selfish. You really need to stop defending badly designed traits if you actually want the game to be balanced.

(edited by Laraley.7695)

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Posted by: Fortus.6175

Fortus.6175

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

100% wrong. If you read many of the posts, they’re not even talking about nerfing the trait, but changing it so it allows more counterplay. Right now the trait shuts down some builds completely, while is useless against other builds. Reworking it would also didn’t change the amount of support auramancer has, since the trait is 100% selfish. You really need to stop defending badly designed traits if you actually want the game to be balanced.

[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

I’m all for making DS a better, more active Grandmaster, but only if stuff like braindead condi spam and auto-attack spam are nerfed as well.

+1

Don’t forget it’s a GRANDMASTER trait … things like" 2 sec resistance on earth" are adept on revenant (mallyx with 5 sec inner cd… we have 8 -10-20 sec to come back to earth)

This isn’t a good comparison.
Revenants have very little condition cleansing at all and are forced into Mallyx to have any Resistance in any form while Elementalists will always have Earth available to them along with the ability to run multiple condition cleanses, both on their weapons and utilities.

(edited by Malchior.5732)

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Posted by: ZeftheWicked.3076

ZeftheWicked.3076

Condi spam is not as horrid as ppl make it out to be save few cases (engi comes first to mind). Generaly professions that have powerful condi burst (ranger) lack real constant condi pressure – so a quick clense at a right time shuts them down fast.

And those that have constant condi pressure lack the burst (necro). Where things stray away from these two scenarios that’s where you need to start worrying.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

100% wrong. If you read many of the posts, they’re not even talking about nerfing the trait, but changing it so it allows more counterplay. Right now the trait shuts down some builds completely, while is useless against other builds. Reworking it would also not change the amount of support auramancer has, since the trait is 100% selfish. You really need to stop defending badly designed traits if you actually want the game to be balanced.

I think I need to give you gold for this stellar rebuttal.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

I just fought a tempest with my reaper. just a minute ago.
I was at close to defend it why we lost the mid after a hard fight.
I capped the close and then that tempest comes.
I was unable to call for help why I was alone in close and all my team members was fighting in mid already in 4vs4.
I find different situations like that, expecially against a good team.

I tried to hold close but all I had tried was useless. I use Carrion and my direct damage is low and not enough to overcome his passive+active heal to take him down 90% HP.
I tried everything, every kitten ed skill I have to take his HP down. I succesfully taken his hp to 80% 1 time and he just actived his main heal, healing at 100% in a moment while I was unable to stop him why he had stability.
He just stayed immobile, with no need to move, spamming random skills and overcharging all his skills easy why I had not a single chance to stop him out of 2 stun immediatly breaked out by his skills.
When I was near to take him under 90% hp he just activated a weapon heal or an aura, granting him 1000-2000 hp, turning back to full in a moment, making all my work useless.

He killed me without the need of move. Literally.
When I was near to die an ally comes to help but nothing had be enough to kill him why I dropped downed after some seconds why conditions (a large amount of burn) and direct damage (with all that might also a celestial tempest can deal high direct damage).
The time I was downed, my ally was doomed to die why he was unable to fight in 1vs1 a tempest, expecially a tempest with more or less all his skills ready why he don’t needed to active so much of them to kill me.

NOw TELL ME THAT A SIMILAR GAMEPLAY IS A GOOD GAMEPLAY AND THAT DIAMOND SKIN IS NOT TO NERF!!!!

THERE HAD NOT TO BE A SINGLE kitten ED TRAIT THAT MAKE YOU ABLE TO COUNTER NOT ONLY A BUILD BUT A ENTIRE CATEGORY OF BUILDS!!!!!!

Seriously: how can you be able to take a single kitten ed trait and then be able to fight 1vs1 without reciving damage and killing the enemy so easy that you seriously don’t need to move and just to spam come skills and overpoer your attunements, dealing high damage and granting all the kind of boons you want???

In a big team fight that also is a problem why half of the time no one focus on a tempest why it’s a total loss of time why if there’s another tempest or a druid he will stay up to 90% hp for a very long time, making you unable to inflict conditions and reducing the efficence of more than 50% of builds to 0!

Ds for itself isn’t the best GM trait of all the time, the problem is when you combine that trait with the Tempest, making auras give you heal, granting heal everywhere and auras like you’ve never seen before.

The COMBINATION of Tempest and Dimaond Skin is to nerf.

i will be happy if I was able to still inflict CC condiitons why with that I will be able to catch him and deal my damage, and I want to be able to inflict conditions like Vulnerability and Weakness why the first will grant me the chance to not inflict damage by itself but increase my damage over him (and for example a reaper can’t stack vulnerability without stack chill, making that thing not exagerate) and I want to inflict Weakness, to reduce his direct damage and protect me (for the example of the reaper, is more or less the only defence he have against direct damage classes).

Make the DS protect from all the damaging conditions but let me still inflict CC on him (cripple, immoblity, FEAR) , Vulnerability and Weakness. But still protect from Burn, Bleed, Torment, Poison, Confusion.

That will make the ele still protected from conditions but at last make me able to fight him if I’m a Condition Damage Class.

And to who say that it’s the counter to all that condi spam, you already have a counter: Guardian Bunker with Shout.
If you want to fight without a shouting guardian in your team and with few condi removal in your build don’t pretend to be protected by conditions.

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

It’s more or less the same solution everyone propose to “fix” the DS problem: rotate, do teamwork, don’t fight alone.

For the theory of yours I had to flee to save myself and go to fight in mid, hoping someone else was able to fight him instead of me…

And about rotate we had rotated but the enemy tempest simply looked that in mid there was already 4 of his team members, no one at his base and that there’s not that so easy to kill reaper in the mid, making 1+1 and coming to me, killing me easy, killing my teammate after me (still if he was a good direct damage Dragonhunter trapper).
We simply don’t thinked that they was sending they’re tempest to our close instead of they’re mesmer or engineer.

That all why every tempest know that if he look a reaper is a really easy kill, that don’t need any kind of playstyle to be defeated by basicly a combination of 2 traits counter an entire build (if not an entire category of classes/builds).

That’s the problem.

Before HoT I played my great condi necromancer without all that problems against elementalists with DS. They was really hard to kill (and sometimes impossible to kill as a condi build if the player was really good), but I was able to take down that kitten 10% of hp that 3-4 times I needed and then I was able to deal damage with my beloved conditions. I also used a MM build to help me to fight that kind of enemies.

But now is really Impossible kill a noob tempest that press skills more or less at random and heal himself sometimes with auras, weapon skills or when I take his hp down simply overcharge the water or activate his main heal.

Against direct damage classes a tempest isn’t week, is strong, hard to kill, have mobility, heal, protection, permanent regeneration, insane stack of might and high condi and direct damage at the same time.

I don’t say that the DS by itself is OP. It is only if the class is able to stay up to 90-100% hp all the time!

A class that can not only be killed by a so large amount of builds, that use conditions damage, (more or less 60% of the actual builds uses conditions to deal damage or weak the enemy in different ways), but that don’t even drop below 80% hp and/or also don’t need a skilled playstyle to do that, that class is abviously Broken.

The only thing to do is reduce the effectiveness of the combination DS/Tempest, reducing by a large amount the heal of auras, inserting a big internal cooldown (9-10 sec for every aura to active the heal?), or reducing the effect of Diamond Skin to only the Damaging Conditions (making us able to inflict vulnerability, cripple, fear, immobilize, ……..). Or making DS give Resistance every time you have 3 or more conditions for 3-4 seconds every 8 seconds, while up 80% hp (reduce the effect but increase the hp range can work pretty well).

one of the main problems of DS is that you not only can’t inflict conditions for X time (berserker stance of warrior) or that you can inflict conditions but they don’t have effect (resistance), is that you can’t inflict conditions and also can’t take the enemy down that 90% if you’re a condi user, granting to the Tempest (not elementalist: TEMPEST) to be permanently Immune to your conditions, any kind of conditions, making you totally powerless against him.

I don’t want to cancel that trait, I want only to make a little change to it to make it unable to be combined with other traits in a similar OP way.

DS isn’t OP, that’s more or less true, but the Combination of Traits of the Tempest is really OP and is that Combination that had to be reworked.

Not nerfed, just reworked to grant to every class/build to fight a tempest without knowing from the start that he need to have a teammate to kill him or he will die quickly and doing no damage at all.

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Posted by: Brighteluden.2974

Brighteluden.2974

As I stated earlier atleast let my non damaging CC condi’s stick to a ele as it annoys me so dang much that I throw a few marks down and the ele just walks right over them including my fear like nothing happened, without the ele having to dodge over them. The complete immunity to fear, chill, weakness, and just about everything else while above 90% is ridiculous.

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Posted by: Erzian.5218

Erzian.5218

Even Viper + dagger/warhorn is not enough to actually kill a half decent tempest in 1v1. Necromancer/Reaper simply lacks power dps.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Even Viper + dagger/warhorn is not enough to actually kill a half decent tempest in 1v1. Necromancer/Reaper simply lacks power dps.

I can certainly tell you that it’s enough to melt a bad tempest 1v1

Part of the issue is geomancers freedom which makes your chill last a bit less, which is a fine and balanced trait on its own.

Necromancer Main
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Posted by: Vapour.7348

Vapour.7348

My favorite trait in the entire earth line is elemental shielding.

There are skills and traits that cleanse or reduce the duration of movement impending skills – making chill, a hell of a lot easier to tolerate when you encounter a chill necro.

Aside from DS, Ele’s have geomancer’s training = duration reduction of movement impending cc and lucid singularity 100% duration reduction of movement impending cc when overloading.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

100% wrong. If you read many of the posts, they’re not even talking about nerfing the trait, but changing it so it allows more counterplay. Right now the trait shuts down some builds completely, while is useless against other builds. Reworking it would also not change the amount of support auramancer has, since the trait is 100% selfish. You really need to stop defending badly designed traits if you actually want the game to be balanced.

You should learn to read properly

the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain

; that’s to say that a nerf to DS won’t even remove aurashare from meta

The trait doesn’t shut down anybody other than below average players and the game should not be balanced ever around them.

Silv.9207
The only thing to do is reduce the effectiveness of the combination DS/Tempest, reducing by a large amount the heal of auras, inserting a big internal cooldown (9-10 sec for every aura to active the heal?), or reducing the effect of Diamond Skin to only the Damaging Conditions (making us able to inflict vulnerability, cripple, fear, immobilize, ……..). Or making DS give Resistance every time you have 3 or more conditions for 3-4 seconds every 8 seconds, while up 80% hp (reduce the effect but increase the hp range can work pretty well).

Given his complete lack of knowledge, this guy ( and others) truly believe that butchering the earth/tempest line ( like it would ever happen ) would allow him to beat a decent player on ele

They don’t want only “nerf” DS, they want to nerf : protection, healing, damage

Against direct damage classes a tempest isn’t week, is strong, hard to kill, have mobility, heal, protection, permanent regeneration, insane stack of might and high condi and direct damage at the same time.

Basically everything…

You even get people here lamenting about geomancer freedom and lucid singularity, @Laraley how can you stand up for this level of skill?

They blame everything but…their own lack of practice, seriously..how sad

(edited by Supreme.3164)

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Posted by: Unholy Pillager.3791

Unholy Pillager.3791

No Diamond Skin – No Ele in competetive play……

Yeah, right. Elementalists have plenty of condition removal, they just choose not to take it these days because it’s more convenient to take DS and their usual ridiculous healing/protection combination. Even if you don’t disagree with the hard counter concept, it puts many power builds (necromancers, mostly) at a huge disadvantage because cc is often necessary to set up enough of a burst to overcome the absurd healing that auramancers have. At the very least, DS should not grant immunity to fear, cripple, immobilize, blind, or weakness. Immunity to damaging conditions is more than powerful enough.

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Posted by: Snorcha.7586

Snorcha.7586

Quality gameplay from a quality game…

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

I just fought a tempest with my reaper. just a minute ago.
I was at close to defend it why we lost the mid after a hard fight.
I capped the close and then that tempest comes.
I was unable to call for help why I was alone in close and all my team members was fighting in mid already in 4vs4.
I find different situations like that, expecially against a good team.

I tried to hold close but all I had tried was useless. I use Carrion and my direct damage is low and not enough to overcome his passive+active heal to take him down 90% HP.
I tried everything, every kitten ed skill I have to take his HP down. I succesfully taken his hp to 80% 1 time and he just actived his main heal, healing at 100% in a moment while I was unable to stop him why he had stability.
He just stayed immobile, with no need to move, spamming random skills and overcharging all his skills easy why I had not a single chance to stop him out of 2 stun immediatly breaked out by his skills.
When I was near to take him under 90% hp he just activated a weapon heal or an aura, granting him 1000-2000 hp, turning back to full in a moment, making all my work useless.

He killed me without the need of move. Literally.
When I was near to die an ally comes to help but nothing had be enough to kill him why I dropped downed after some seconds why conditions (a large amount of burn) and direct damage (with all that might also a celestial tempest can deal high direct damage).
The time I was downed, my ally was doomed to die why he was unable to fight in 1vs1 a tempest, expecially a tempest with more or less all his skills ready why he don’t needed to active so much of them to kill me.

NOw TELL ME THAT A SIMILAR GAMEPLAY IS A GOOD GAMEPLAY AND THAT DIAMOND SKIN IS NOT TO NERF!!!!

THERE HAD NOT TO BE A SINGLE kitten ED TRAIT THAT MAKE YOU ABLE TO COUNTER NOT ONLY A BUILD BUT A ENTIRE CATEGORY OF BUILDS!!!!!!

Seriously: how can you be able to take a single kitten ed trait and then be able to fight 1vs1 without reciving damage and killing the enemy so easy that you seriously don’t need to move and just to spam come skills and overpoer your attunements, dealing high damage and granting all the kind of boons you want???

In a big team fight that also is a problem why half of the time no one focus on a tempest why it’s a total loss of time why if there’s another tempest or a druid he will stay up to 90% hp for a very long time, making you unable to inflict conditions and reducing the efficence of more than 50% of builds to 0!

Ds for itself isn’t the best GM trait of all the time, the problem is when you combine that trait with the Tempest, making auras give you heal, granting heal everywhere and auras like you’ve never seen before.

The COMBINATION of Tempest and Dimaond Skin is to nerf.

i will be happy if I was able to still inflict CC condiitons why with that I will be able to catch him and deal my damage, and I want to be able to inflict conditions like Vulnerability and Weakness why the first will grant me the chance to not inflict damage by itself but increase my damage over him (and for example a reaper can’t stack vulnerability without stack chill, making that thing not exagerate) and I want to inflict Weakness, to reduce his direct damage and protect me (for the example of the reaper, is more or less the only defence he have against direct damage classes).

Make the DS protect from all the damaging conditions but let me still inflict CC on him (cripple, immoblity, FEAR) , Vulnerability and Weakness. But still protect from Burn, Bleed, Torment, Poison, Confusion.

That will make the ele still protected from conditions but at last make me able to fight him if I’m a Condition Damage Class.

And to who say that it’s the counter to all that condi spam, you already have a counter: Guardian Bunker with Shout.
If you want to fight without a shouting guardian in your team and with few condi removal in your build don’t pretend to be protected by conditions.

Well I don’t sympathies with him.

If I play my Reaper with a gear that has power in it, no D/F Tempest can stay at %90 HP, and I play my Reaper with Celestial, they can’t even stay at %90 at it against it also and forget about with 900 Power.

You should be able to survive until Tempest blows all of its CDs then he is a dead fish, if you are using Necro build with 0 self sustain, I am sry you are looking for trouble in todays META.

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Posted by: Akikaze.1307

Akikaze.1307

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

After reading over numerous threads about this trait, that is the best suggestion I’ve seen thus far. Though I would add a few more conditions to that list.

Fire: Chill, Burning
Air: Weakness, Blind, Slow
Earth: Cripple, Bleed, Vulnerability
Water: Poison, Confusion, Torment

Fear and Immobilized to remain opened so there’s still counterplay. Also it should be immune to those conditions for new stacks applied. Existing stacks should still tick to enforce active condi-cleansing.

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Posted by: deda.8302

deda.8302

One simple solution would be to make any cc a CC,not a condi cc but just a cc
Then you can by pass his DS
Or simple make a Ds give resistance with auras ,or work while in earth only…

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Posted by: Koko.1480

Koko.1480

Most of these arguments of ‘you need to rotate’ are utterly invalid for 95% of the cases in which issues with a DS ele occur – because the majority of players do not play in full, organized, and communicating comps. The vast majority of players are also not professionally competitive – so making comparisons to ‘look how fast this pro with DS ele was downed’ has almost no relevance to this argument.

People say ‘get good’ and ‘learn to play’ – however I can assure you that the majority of the pvp community are casuals in which traits like this completely shut down a half to third of all opposing builds.

One of the previous suggestion of reducing condi duration, with the effect doubled at above 90% HP is the best I have seen so far – providing a decent level of condi defence, whilst allowing condi builds to still be viable through persistence.

However, traiting for Cleansing Water as the water grandmaster, accompanied by Invigorating Torrents from tempest provides a consistent tool for condi removal anyway, with switching to water providing enough regeneration procs to remove burst condis – so this change to the earth grandmaster won’t make to much of a difference vs condis to a decent ele.

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Posted by: ReaperJr.5967

ReaperJr.5967

Most of these arguments of ‘you need to rotate’ are utterly invalid for 95% of the cases in which issues with a DS ele occur – because the majority of players do not play in full, organized, and communicating comps. The vast majority of players are also not professionally competitive – so making comparisons to ‘look how fast this pro with DS ele was downed’ has almost no relevance to this argument.

People say ‘get good’ and ‘learn to play’ – however I can assure you that the majority of the pvp community are casuals in which traits like this completely shut down a half to third of all opposing builds.

One of the previous suggestion of reducing condi duration, with the effect doubled at above 90% HP is the best I have seen so far – providing a decent level of condi defence, whilst allowing condi builds to still be viable through persistence.

However, traiting for Cleansing Water as the water grandmaster, accompanied by Invigorating Torrents from tempest provides a consistent tool for condi removal anyway, with switching to water providing enough regeneration procs to remove burst condis – so this change to the earth grandmaster won’t make to much of a difference vs condis to a decent ele.

What? You mean to say people can’t rotate around a ds ele if they are not in a full organised and communicating comp? LOL. I am stunned speechless.

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

Except it’s not even close to being overpowered. It serves 0 purpose against power based players, and only slightly counters condi based players. If you can’t do 1800 direct damage or can’t get help from a teammate to break through it because your too bad to do it yourself you don’t deserve to beat the ele.

Again, why do people assume Im fighting the ele? i AM the ele.

40% damage reduction, 3 auras, a healing skill, 10% damage reduction from frost aura, elite to give me another aura.

Effective health is a lot more than 1.8k, on top of that I have over 9k of healing in a matter of seconds. You cant see things in a vacuum, truth is; even with 2 people, it can be tough to break through my health.

Except u dont have all that all the time, u will wear out of cds. Two good can take u down. Yes u could probl hold ur own till help arrives, but thats fine as u played ur role.

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

Diamond skin is broken and should be adjusted. No passive skill/trait should hardcounter whole build. It’s like ranger’s bark skin would give imunity to direct dmg when agove 90% health. Cause why not right? Bring condi and stop crying? Ofc not, that would be broken same as diamond skin.

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Posted by: deda.8302

deda.8302

Quality gameplay from a quality game…

Same build vs same build tends to lead to a draw

Slightly different tepmest can beat meta tempest …

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Posted by: Absconditus.6804

Absconditus.6804

Diamond Skin is fine, as long as you give Necromancers some Trait that grants them complete immunity to physical attacks (that includes physical CC) while above 90% health. I say Necromancer, because they have some of the better condition cleansing in the game, like Elementalists with their heals. It will be balanced, I promise.

If you can’t see how ridiculous Diamond Skin is, then I’m sure you’d see it with that Trait and start the whambulance. But it’d be just as fair as Diamond Skin is though! It will just void an entire half of the way we deal damage and/or CC (there’s way too much CC now anyways), and condi-built players could deal with it, except, when they can’t because the Necro is rather good at cleansing, and the team will also remove additional conditions. All you need to do is rotate. Right?

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Posted by: dank.3680

dank.3680

Most of these arguments of ‘you need to rotate’ are utterly invalid for 95% of the cases in which issues with a DS ele occur – because the majority of players do not play in full, organized, and communicating comps. The vast majority of players are also not professionally competitive – so making comparisons to ‘look how fast this pro with DS ele was downed’ has almost no relevance to this argument.

People say ‘get good’ and ‘learn to play’ – however I can assure you that the majority of the pvp community are casuals in which traits like this completely shut down a half to third of all opposing builds.

One of the previous suggestion of reducing condi duration, with the effect doubled at above 90% HP is the best I have seen so far – providing a decent level of condi defence, whilst allowing condi builds to still be viable through persistence.

However, traiting for Cleansing Water as the water grandmaster, accompanied by Invigorating Torrents from tempest provides a consistent tool for condi removal anyway, with switching to water providing enough regeneration procs to remove burst condis – so this change to the earth grandmaster won’t make to much of a difference vs condis to a decent ele.

What? You mean to say people can’t rotate around a ds ele if they are not in a full organised and communicating comp? LOL. I am stunned speechless.

Lets say you are on home point and get stuck defending vs a auramancer.. You can’t win for whatever reason and you need to rotate out. Do you give him the point and just leave? Do you stay in a pointless fight forever and maybe die???

Lets not forget you can’t just say outloud hey I need help on home and have reliable teammates that come rotate you out..

You can ping on the map, or write in chat.. It may or may not get a response…

Wasn’t that hard of a scenario to realize, mind not blown.

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Posted by: Chicho Gosho.6507

Chicho Gosho.6507

I think the biggest problem is that it makes you immune to the effect of the conditions – no fear, no slow. I think it should only affect the damage portion of the condions.

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Posted by: Absconditus.6804

Absconditus.6804

It should at best lower the damage, not make you immune to it. But hey, let’s see them implement the opposite (physical immunity) for some profession with good Condition cleansing and some healing sustain. That’d be balanced too.

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Posted by: Pyriall.1683

Pyriall.1683

DS keep it’s immunity to damage causing conditions/damage from conditions and allow us to apply movement impairing conditions as well as blind, vulnerability, and weakness.

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Posted by: Unholy Pillager.3791

Unholy Pillager.3791

DS keep it’s immunity to damage causing conditions/damage from conditions and allow us to apply movement impairing conditions as well as blind, vulnerability, and weakness.

This, and/or a cooldown so that they can’t just reapply it 5 seconds after you get them below 90% health. It isn’t like elementalists are hurting for condi cleanse outside of DS anyway.

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

Most of these arguments of ‘you need to rotate’ are utterly invalid for 95% of the cases in which issues with a DS ele occur – because the majority of players do not play in full, organized, and communicating comps. The vast majority of players are also not professionally competitive – so making comparisons to ‘look how fast this pro with DS ele was downed’ has almost no relevance to this argument.

People say ‘get good’ and ‘learn to play’ – however I can assure you that the majority of the pvp community are casuals in which traits like this completely shut down a half to third of all opposing builds.

One of the previous suggestion of reducing condi duration, with the effect doubled at above 90% HP is the best I have seen so far – providing a decent level of condi defence, whilst allowing condi builds to still be viable through persistence.

However, traiting for Cleansing Water as the water grandmaster, accompanied by Invigorating Torrents from tempest provides a consistent tool for condi removal anyway, with switching to water providing enough regeneration procs to remove burst condis – so this change to the earth grandmaster won’t make to much of a difference vs condis to a decent ele.

What? You mean to say people can’t rotate around a ds ele if they are not in a full organised and communicating comp? LOL. I am stunned speechless.

Lets say you are on home point and get stuck defending vs a auramancer.. You can’t win for whatever reason and you need to rotate out. Do you give him the point and just leave? Do you stay in a pointless fight forever and maybe die???

Lets not forget you can’t just say outloud hey I need help on home and have reliable teammates that come rotate you out..

You can ping on the map, or write in chat.. It may or may not get a response…

Wasn’t that hard of a scenario to realize, mind not blown.

Well, I’m not defending DS, but that’s why people need to rotate. You have your necro against DS ele? Someone swap with him. Necros are teamfighters, not point holders. It’s like complaining your mesmer died to a thief defending close back in the they when they were food for them.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Jeeez..this thread still going zzzzzzzzz…just gut DS and let the hotjoiners go, it’ll be fun to see about what they’ll rant next to cover for their own lack of skills in general, I’ll leave this here:

The Dunning–Kruger effectis a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately

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Posted by: rchu.8945

rchu.8945

The PvP community is strange, it’s NOT ok for Chrono Bunker to exist, but quite ok for Ele DS bunker to exist. LOL.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

The PvP community is strange, it’s NOT ok for Chrono Bunker to exist, but quite ok for Ele DS bunker to exist. LOL.

The peeps on the forum do not represent the PvP community..they’re just the very vocal minority -_-

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Posted by: dank.3680

dank.3680

Leave DS alone, tone down healing or protection or aura spam or any one of the numerous reasons tempest are currently over the top.

Doesn’t really matter, as is though all of the combined is too much.

Besides that DS is another passive that promotes lazy play, like %hp invuln procs. I’d rather see it be something more interesting personally..

It’s not like I don’t also play ele I mean it’s been in my top 3 favorites since bwe1 (personally I spend a lot of time across all my toons in my 7kish hours).

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Leave DS alone, tone down healing or protection or aura spam or any one of the numerous reasons tempest are currently over the top.

Doesn’t really matter, as is though all of the combined is too much.

Besides that DS is another passive that promotes lazy play, like %hp invuln procs. I’d rather see it be something more interesting personally..

It’s not like I don’t also play ele I mean it’s been in my top 3 favorites since bwe1 (personally I spend a lot of time across all my toons in my 7kish hours).

Yeah nerf healing, aura, protection, dmg……just delete tempest just to be sure lol
Oh and after that, make sure to nerf cantrips, cleansing water, arcana, SoR….basically reduce all ele sustain by 60-70% but leave DS alone..game it’s now balanced……..reading the forum is like watching comedy central, where every average Joe becomes a game designer -_-

(edited by Supreme.3164)

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Posted by: dank.3680

dank.3680

Leave DS alone, tone down healing or protection or aura spam or any one of the numerous reasons tempest are currently over the top.

Doesn’t really matter, as is though all of the combined is too much.

Besides that DS is another passive that promotes lazy play, like %hp invuln procs. I’d rather see it be something more interesting personally..

It’s not like I don’t also play ele I mean it’s been in my top 3 favorites since bwe1 (personally I spend a lot of time across all my toons in my 7kish hours).

Yeah nerf healing, aura, protection, dmg……just delete tempest just to be sure lol

I guess you are not able to read the word “OR” in lower case so here it is with OR capitalized.

“Leave DS alone, tone down healing OR protection OR aura spam OR any one of the numerous reasons tempest are currently over the top.”

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

Jeeez..this thread still going zzzzzzzzz…just gut DS and let the hotjoiners go, it’ll be fun to see about what they’ll rant next to cover for their own lack of skills in general, I’ll leave this here:

The Dunning–Kruger effectis a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately

Please read wat you quoted again.

You complain about ‘’braindead condition spam’’ while you defend DS, which takes basically no skill. Do you always defend everything when it comes to ele just for the sake of it even though it’s broken? And I’m gonna say one more time that people are not really asking for nerfs, but a rework. No one can argue with the fact DS is badly designed, passive trait. Why not give ele something active instead? You would have to learn to play?

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Posted by: ReaperJr.5967

ReaperJr.5967

Most of these arguments of ‘you need to rotate’ are utterly invalid for 95% of the cases in which issues with a DS ele occur – because the majority of players do not play in full, organized, and communicating comps. The vast majority of players are also not professionally competitive – so making comparisons to ‘look how fast this pro with DS ele was downed’ has almost no relevance to this argument.

People say ‘get good’ and ‘learn to play’ – however I can assure you that the majority of the pvp community are casuals in which traits like this completely shut down a half to third of all opposing builds.

One of the previous suggestion of reducing condi duration, with the effect doubled at above 90% HP is the best I have seen so far – providing a decent level of condi defence, whilst allowing condi builds to still be viable through persistence.

However, traiting for Cleansing Water as the water grandmaster, accompanied by Invigorating Torrents from tempest provides a consistent tool for condi removal anyway, with switching to water providing enough regeneration procs to remove burst condis – so this change to the earth grandmaster won’t make to much of a difference vs condis to a decent ele.

What? You mean to say people can’t rotate around a ds ele if they are not in a full organised and communicating comp? LOL. I am stunned speechless.

Lets say you are on home point and get stuck defending vs a auramancer.. You can’t win for whatever reason and you need to rotate out. Do you give him the point and just leave? Do you stay in a pointless fight forever and maybe die???

Lets not forget you can’t just say outloud hey I need help on home and have reliable teammates that come rotate you out..

You can ping on the map, or write in chat.. It may or may not get a response…

Wasn’t that hard of a scenario to realize, mind not blown.

Well, I’m not defending DS, but that’s why people need to rotate. You have your necro against DS ele? Someone swap with him. Necros are teamfighters, not point holders. It’s like complaining your mesmer died to a thief defending close back in the they when they were food for them.

Exactly lol. The ele can’t burst you down either. You have plenty of time to ask for help in team chat and then swap with your inc team mate. Are we even playing the same game?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Jeeez..this thread still going zzzzzzzzz…just gut DS and let the hotjoiners go, it’ll be fun to see about what they’ll rant next to cover for their own lack of skills in general, I’ll leave this here:

The Dunning–Kruger effectis a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately

Please read wat you quoted again.

You complain about ‘’braindead condition spam’’ while you defend DS, which takes basically no skill. Do you always defend everything when it comes to ele just for the sake of it even though it’s broken? And I’m gonna say one more time that people are not really asking for nerfs, but a rework. No one can argue with the fact DS is badly designed, passive trait. Why not give ele something active instead? You would have to learn to play?

If I’d have to L2P as you say when I already ground condi necros WITHOUT DS...I would reach a level where I kill necros from distance by simply looking in their direction

The problem with DS is a L2P one, it forces players to think for themselves for once and no waiting for somebody showing them how things works with every build.

As I’ve said nerfing DS won’t help them much…because they will lose regardless, they don’t know how to work around the enemy…they only know how to do the copy/paste rotation on metabattle

All these necros could change their build with a cele amulet, more power, different elite….but no..they all want to run the meta and they will throw a tantrum when that doesn’t work

The fact that you think those defending DS need it to beat necros…show only how little you know about ele……after all you were one of those saying how crap Tempest was where I stated the contrary

I was called a “noob” for thinking that tempest would rock…you and many others instead thought that the spec would not even reach meta status..lol..guess who is the real noob ^^ now

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

Jeeez..this thread still going zzzzzzzzz…just gut DS and let the hotjoiners go, it’ll be fun to see about what they’ll rant next to cover for their own lack of skills in general, I’ll leave this here:

The Dunning–Kruger effectis a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately

Please read wat you quoted again.

You complain about ‘’braindead condition spam’’ while you defend DS, which takes basically no skill. Do you always defend everything when it comes to ele just for the sake of it even though it’s broken? And I’m gonna say one more time that people are not really asking for nerfs, but a rework. No one can argue with the fact DS is badly designed, passive trait. Why not give ele something active instead? You would have to learn to play?

If I’d have to L2P as you say when I already ground condi necros WITHOUT DS...I would reach a level where I kill necros from distance by simply looking in their direction

The problem with DS is a L2P one, it forces players to think for themselves for once and no waiting for somebody showing them how things works with every build.

As I’ve said nerfing DS won’t help them much…because they will lose regardless, they don’t know how to work around the enemy…they only know how to do the copy/paste rotation on metabattle

All these necros could change their build with a cele amulet, more power, different elite….but no..they all want to run the meta and they will throw a tantrum when that doesn’t work

The fact that you think those defending DS need it to beat necros…show only how little you know about ele……after all you were one of those saying how crap Tempest was where I stated the contrary

I was called a “noob” for thinking that tempest would rock…you and many others instead thought that the spec would not even reach meta status..lol..guess who is the real noob ^^ now

I don’t think you even read the posts here. Even in my post I stated not nerfing, but reworking. You go on ignoring it.

Basically all you say is that you’re best player EU and every necro needs to learn to play. I wonder why people don’t take you seriously. You don’t even have a normal conversation on the topic, you just go on and on about something that’s completely off.

Fyi, old d/d ele back in the day was a better spec than tempest is currently. Ele before was a romaer with support, now it’s just a heal/buff bot.

I like how you completely twist things around and put words in my mouth. I said it would be good to give ele something more active and rework it. You come with ‘’nerfing DS’’ and that I said ‘’ele needs it to beat necros’’. I mean, wow.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.

I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about

What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to

DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)

You already get necros “branching out” in other nerfing directions with : geomancer’s freedom, lucid singularity ( like wow), and more; these are the same necros who ask to nerf DS…..no game will ever be balanced around the low end and I’m glad for it

(edited by Supreme.3164)

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.

I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about

What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to

DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)

Has it ever occured to you that there are bad eles? Who never dodge? Think about it.

DS is mindless.

Go play a necro and then we will see. Against actually good opponents.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.

I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about

What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to

DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)

Has it ever occured to you that there are bad eles? Who never dodge? Think about it.

DS is mindless.

Go play a necro and then we will see. Against actually good opponents.

DS may be mindless as concept but…did the necro actually tried to run a different build? one that’s not 100% condi based? what about a build 60% power and 40% condi?

Has it ever occured to you that even ele ha builds that get completely neutralized by others?
And still..eles have adapted..why can’t necros do the same?

A nerf should be warranted where everything has been tried and nothing work, but this is not the case with necro, it’s only a problem with stubborn players determined in running a build that get hardcountered; this may sound arrogant..but surely those players who think a single build should work everywhere are not less arrogant

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.

I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about

What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to

DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)

Has it ever occured to you that there are bad eles? Who never dodge? Think about it.

DS is mindless.

Go play a necro and then we will see. Against actually good opponents.

DS may be mindless as concept but…did the necro actually tried to run a different build? one that’s not 100% condi based? what about a build 60% power and 40% condi?

Has it ever occured to you that even ele ha builds that get completely neutralized by others?
And still..eles have adapted..why can’t necros do the same?

A nerf should be warranted where everything has been tried and nothing work, but this is not the case with necro, it’s only a problem with stubborn players determined in running a build that get hardcountered; this may sound arrogant..but surely those players who think a single build should work everywhere are not less arrogant

Necro has not played condi since dhuumfail meta. With the addition of HoT necro returned to condi with the changes to chill.
So to answer your question in full,..necro very tried alt builds. Pure melee sucks for them because they have no blocks or evades or in vulnerabilities. They have little protection and little vigor generation and all of their melee attack bonus doesn’t kick in until their target is under 50% health and they have full life force. To make the matter worse they also have terrible engage and movement, so they rely heavily on cripple, boon corruption and snares..all of which won’t work with DS in effect.
I am glad we have cleared this matter up. Yes condi reliant professions tried something different to counter ele, and yes..they failed hard.

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

Main problem of DS is the TEMPEST.

By itself Diamond Skin isn’t a really big problem, it was strong from the start of the condi meta why made eles really strong against condition classes, but also was under control why eles was unable to spam heals just by farting, making them unable to keep they’re hp over 90% for a long time.
Now with the auramencer and the tempest they’re able to keep they’re health over 90% with a large amount of little heals by auras and can spam auras all the time.
That combined with the really good amount of condi clean ability of the eles make the DS/tempest combination really OP, granting to tempests a permanent immunity to condition damage.

Different ways to resolve the problem of DS/Tempest:

- When you recive a condition while above 90% hp obtain immunity for conditions for 5s (CD of 7 sec), that will make eles immune to conditions but also grant a window to deal damage and force the tempest to have an active gameplay to clean conditions and heal.

- Make DS able to protect only from damaging conditions (poison, burn, torment, confusion, bleed) and let him still susceptible to all the others (making also traited conditions to don’t deal damage -reaper fear and chill- but still active they’re basic effect
- Set a CD of 10-2 seconds on Element Bastion Heal, making the Tempest unable to spam heal just by crossing a firefield with a leap or activating a shout or with a passive trait
- Reduce the heal of Elemental Bastion, making tempest with celestial unable to heal for 1k every aura they active (50% reduction can work for a trait that also give you a really good defensive aura for free every 30 sec) and add a internal cooldown of 3-4 seconds to not make it spammable

The problem of DS is the combination with Tempest traits.

We don’t have to nerf Dimaond Skin, we have to nerf (to a good but not OP level) the DS/tempest combination, that is the thing that make eles more than OP against condition classes.

As an ele main; Diamond Skin OP

in PvP

Posted by: chibbi.3706

chibbi.3706

I’m all for making DS a better, more active Grandmaster, but only if stuff like braindead condi spam and auto-attack spam are nerfed as well.

Please explain how are condis more braindead that direct damage.

As an ele main; Diamond Skin OP

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

You already get necros “branching out” in other nerfing directions with : geomancer’s freedom, lucid singularity ( like wow), and more; these are the same necros who ask to nerf DS…..no game will ever be balanced around the low end and I’m glad for it

Thank you for proving in one paragraph that your reading comprehension is almost nil.

1. Not everyone who is against Diamond Skin are Necro mains. I’ve seen most professions, even Ele mains, represented in these threads.

2. Geomancer’s Freedom, Lucid Singularity, and others are never brought up calling for nerfs. Seriously, not once. They are brought up as options for the Ele/Tempest. Options that, I might add, are often not used. Geomancer’s Training is on the metabattle build, sure, but many swap it out for Rock Solid. Lucid Singularity, though, is completely overlooked because of Elemental Bastion. Heck, for anti-Chill, there’s Stop, Drop, and Roll that never sees use.

3. Most people aren’t asking for a nerf, they’re asking for a rework. A fact you keep ignoring. People want Diamond Skin to be a strong anti-condition trait. What they don’t want is for it to be an auto-win against a wide swath of builds and worthless against everything else. My suggestions have always been to remove the health threshold entirely, but to make the protection (not the boon) tied to something the Elementalist has to manually trigger while not lasting indefinitely

And the mentions of Hardy Conduit have always been to point out that it’s stupidly hard to actually get and keep a Tempest below 90% if you’re not a Power build. This requires the Tempest to be bad, not the condi player to be amazing. Massive difference between the two.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

As an ele main; Diamond Skin OP

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Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

No Diamond Skin – No Ele in competetive play……

Then fix Ele

Then fix condition spam?

yepp, condition-spam on certain classes is just way too strong, especially on condi-rev and necro. I’d have no Problem with a change of diamond-skin, but seriously: If I can’t survive against conditions even with 4shouts +invigorating torrents + cleansing water + mass amount of other auras + soldier runes, then sth. is wrong with condition-spam on certain classes.

Also, teams can actually really punish an ele for not going stone heart by simply adding some decent spiked physical dmg to totally wreck the ele.

As an ele main; Diamond Skin OP

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Supreme, cele necro only has diamond skin breaking power if you can stack might fairy quickly, which is hard when you can’t proc siphoned power. Moreover, it’s not as good against scrapers or Druid as carrion or wanderer and wanderer gets hardcoubtered altogether by DS. Even on viper reaper I can’t bring it unless I take dagger over scepter which hurts me in nearly every other matchup.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

As an ele main; Diamond Skin OP

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Psst, condition attacks can be dodged, blocked, and blinded just like physical attacks. Meta Tempest build has sufficient condition clear to win without Diamond Skin against condi builds of any kind, but only if you actually avoid attacks.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver