Guild Wars 2

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.

I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about

What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to

DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)

Has it ever occured to you that there are bad eles? Who never dodge? Think about it.

DS is mindless.

Go play a necro and then we will see. Against actually good opponents.

DS may be mindless as concept but…did the necro actually tried to run a different build? one that’s not 100% condi based? what about a build 60% power and 40% condi?

Has it ever occured to you that even ele ha builds that get completely neutralized by others?
And still..eles have adapted..why can’t necros do the same?

A nerf should be warranted where everything has been tried and nothing work, but this is not the case with necro, it’s only a problem with stubborn players determined in running a build that get hardcountered; this may sound arrogant..but surely those players who think a single build should work everywhere are not less arrogant

I don’t think you realize it’s not easy to break DS on cele necro either. Sure, you can put the ele under 90% hp, but keeping them there is completely different. The necro has only one option if they don’t want to be completely countered by one trait and that’s not playing a condition spec at all, which includes cele.

Oh, please. Name one ele build that gets completely countered by one trait.

Condi spam is a thing, be totally Immune to and automaticly win against a condition class is another thing.

The main Necromancer build is actually Pure Condition Based for one simple reason:
We NEED Reaper Shroud to fight why it give us (finally!) a Stability Source and a Stun!

But then we’re facing a big problem with the RS:
it’s direct damage is really bad compared to the Risk you take to go into the middle of the fight in Melee without any kind of defence from both direct and condi damage! (not a heal, not an active condi removal, not a block, not a immunity skill, the leap have an aftercast that make it barely useless if at the end of it you stay in RS and the team can’t heal you). Then we discovered that if you play it in condition damage you can deal good damage and also use a Carrion/Rabid/Celestial/X amulet that grant you a defensive stat to survive just a little longer. And if you’re not in RS there’s a really small amount of reasons to use the Reaper Specializzation. The heal (if you don’t use the signet build) and the Elite (but if you play a power build you will prefer to use the Lich Form, then there’s not a real reason to take the reaper skills). Traits? Only one that make you crit more frequently also in soldier stats, but the enemy is not always with 20-25 stacks of vulnerability and that trait is frequently useless. Then we can look at the Greatsword! A weapon totally Useless in sPvP. Slow, don’t increase the range of attack making it’s slow attacks more useless, give skills that frequently don’t work or that you don’t need compared to other weapon skills, and the Graverdigger deal a really good damage (lesser than the damage of other classes weapons like the Dragonhunter LB 4) but is so easy to avoid that you can simply move away (expecially if you have a +25% speed or swiftness) to evade the attack.

Then we Had to find another way out of Direct Damage. We need the Reaper but it also Kill our Direct Damage dps by it’s lack of good skills and damage.
We find Condition damage, the only way we can do combos and stack some decent damage.

Then we fought the first Tempest and we find out that our only good build is totally countered by a combination of 2 passive traits… (DS and aura=heal trait)
And we find out that that combination don’t totally make us unable to kill a good tempest (not the best tempest of all, simply a good one) and that we spend 2 minutes to kill a bad one with the risk to die.
And that’s not only a problem of reapers, that’s a problem of all condition builds and of all the builds that use conditions like immobilize, cripple, chill, weakness to defend or attack.
Also if we play in celestial we need to be skilled and a large amount of time to kill a good tempest, the same thing if we play in direct damage why the reaper focus a lot on chill to land it’s attacks.

The problems fo necromancers is actually that any builds out of condition or celestial is barely useless for fight any other classes that aren’t a tempest, and that make forced to a choice: fight 8 classes with the only really good build we have but lose all our damage when a single tempest come out of nowhere or focus to kill that single class but lose damage against all the other classes, making us easier to be killed?

The problem isn’t DS, is the Combination of aura heals and DS that make the tempest able to stay at 100% hp all the time, becoming immune to all our damage.
Diamond Skin is good as it is. Is the combination that make the tempest OP.

I don’t want to see DS nerfed, I only want to see it Reworked to make a condition damage build able to fight a tempest. Knowing that out of that DS there’s a large amount of condi clean skills and traits that make the ele able to fight a condi build also without the DS, a rework on DS is possible and will work.

I think that ele’s are +10% overpowered, but yet again, necro can counter them if he builds up life force.
Revenant is full with bugs, +5% overpowered.
Mesmer still 15% overpowered.
Guardian 1-5% overpowered, if you know them how they play, it’s easy to counter them, it will be 0%.
Druid heal 20% overpowered, it’s insane!
I’m in ruby league, when I reach diamond, I will come back only on next season (season 2), never faster, max for daily.

You realize you’re crying over one necro build that ofc DS ele can hard counter? It’s one build while ele really only has 2 viable builds left for this meta. There’s always going to be a counter build to another. You take away or revamp DS and ele goes down the drain yet again for this meta. Easy way to fix this… dun play cele necro in a 1v1 vs DS ele. Just like you dun wanna play DS ele vs a straight dps class. Ele has their own hard counter builds; get over it that your cele necro is just not one of those.

Arya.9021:

You realize you’re crying over one necro build that ofc DS ele can hard counter? It’s one build while ele really only has 2 viable builds left for this meta. There’s always going to be a counter build to another. You take away or revamp DS and ele goes down the drain yet again for this meta. Easy way to fix this… dun play cele necro in a 1v1 vs DS ele. Just like you dun wanna play DS ele vs a straight dps class. Ele has their own hard counter builds; get over it that your cele necro is just not one of those.

Just curious, what would you say is the diamond skin tempest hardcounter in 1v1? Pretty much everything I can think of either stalls it if it has sustain or loses since it doesn’t have enough damage or sustain. I could see power rev doing well against it though if it baits cooldowns to spike with unrelenting assault. Viper rev seems like it would have a shot of it stripped DS with sword autos but I’m not totally sure on that.

nearlight.3064:

Arya.9021:

You realize you’re crying over one necro build that ofc DS ele can hard counter? It’s one build while ele really only has 2 viable builds left for this meta. There’s always going to be a counter build to another. You take away or revamp DS and ele goes down the drain yet again for this meta. Easy way to fix this… dun play cele necro in a 1v1 vs DS ele. Just like you dun wanna play DS ele vs a straight dps class. Ele has their own hard counter builds; get over it that your cele necro is just not one of those.

Just curious, what would you say is the diamond skin tempest hardcounter in 1v1? Pretty much everything I can think of either stalls it if it has sustain or loses since it doesn’t have enough damage or sustain. I could see power rev doing well against it though if it baits cooldowns to spike with unrelenting assault. Viper rev seems like it would have a shot of it stripped DS with sword autos but I’m not totally sure on that.

It’s actually a pretty straightforward fight as a rev, I admit I run a bit different as a soloer I take Marauder lately a long with glint/jalis. DS Tempest is easily winnable, just takes awhile. I had less success with condi or hybrid setups vs tempest.

A necromancer can’t counter a tempest just building LF why the problem is that the ele will never fall down that 90% hp unless the reaper is a direct damage build, a build week compared to the condition one and good only to kill a tempest (if the tempest isn’t a good one).
LF is not Damage. Why while you’re in RS your damage don’t increase if you’ve more LF, you can just stay in RS longer, but the time the tempest need to strip you away from RS (whi Tempest don’t only survive for ages but also deal a really good damage with sills and overcharges) you really can’t take him down that 90% if is a good tempest.
Then if you’re not a pure bunker that will anyway never win against a tempest, yes, you can build again LF and survive a little longer before die.
LF don’t counter the tempest why in Reaper Shroud if you’re a condition build you can’t kill a tempest why you can’t deal any conditio damage or even stack chill or use fear.

And at the end the problem is not who have who to counter him. The problem is another:
A TEMPEST WILL NOT COUNTER BUT NULLIFY YOUR CONDITION REAPER/CLASSBUILD AT ALL!!!!!!!!

But the next time I was fighting I will for shure follow your suggestion.
“ehy, guys, I’m in mid/close to defend but my teammate is dead why the tempest focused him while I was unable to do anything to him and killed him. Now I leave the point why I can’t sistematically kill a tempest why I can’t deal damage to him”…
Yeah…. I will for shure be regrouped by that team again for another match toghether… shure…

If I was unable to kill a tempest but able to deal damage to him I will never be so mad and I will never start to write about all that in the forum.
It’s trye: some builds counter other builds. (p.s. temepst can counter celestial builds like do to carrion builds why the direct damage output is more or less the same, only a little higher, just to know).
The problem is that 2 traits combined totally destroys a entire build.
No brain needed to kill a condi reaper with a tempest, he simply can’t deal damage to you. just sit in front of him ans overcharge your attunements one by one, active 2 whout at random and gg, you’ve win with 100% hp.

If that tempest is able to kill me 100% times but I’m able to Fight him, I’m ok, no problem, is a counter build like there’s for every build.

The problem is that is a build that simply make me Useless.

If there’s a tempest in the enemy team si better to me to reroll to another class why I know from the start of the match that I will be useless.

There’s a reason why there’s always 1 or 2 tempest in every matches you play in spvp. Always. In that days I’ve never found a team without a tempest. Never. Sometimes 2 tempests.
I think there’s a reason for that…

Really hard to kill still if focused (immunity to condi, and to direct damage if use the focus, AoE heal condi clean, AoE damage (a lot of damage).
A good tempest can make you win a match by itself.

Well I play Viper Reaper and I have no problems killing tempest. If you can’t think outside the box then don’t expect to win.

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

There needs to be a pure counter to pure condi builds for the class with the less hp and armor. Anyway if you put all your eggs in the same basket you can’t expect not to have a counter-meta build out there. If you can’t even cleave 10% off an ele then perhaps it’s time to come to realize the fact that your build just sucks versus that class. As far as I can see Dragon Hunters, Revenants and Scrappers have no problems dealing with tempests if they chain their skills properly.

Why do you think eles play full bunker now? When cleansing water can’t clear half the chill application or torment application of a Reaper or a Revenant wtf do you expect?

Play celestial amulet or Viper, something that does a bit of damage instead of pure condi. Without versatility you can’t expect to win against every builds. People that run pure condi builds are supposed to team up with teammates that run pure support and pure damage. If you solo queue pure condi then it’s gonna fail.

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

Yup, because the game isn’t shaped around 1 v 1. Its a team game. T E A M .

Exxcalibur.6203:

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

Yup, because the game isn’t shaped around 1 v 1. Its a team game. T E A M .

1v1’s are part of the overall team effort though.

dank.3680:

Exxcalibur.6203:

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

Yup, because the game isn’t shaped around 1 v 1. Its a team game. T E A M .

1v1’s are part of the overall team effort though.

Pure 1-sided builds, like pure condi or pure support, are team builds not builds made for 1v1.

Xillllix.3485:

dank.3680:

Exxcalibur.6203:

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

Yup, because the game isn’t shaped around 1 v 1. Its a team game. T E A M .

1v1’s are part of the overall team effort though.

Pure 1-sided builds, like pure condi or pure support, are team builds not builds made for 1v1.

I’m betting you don’t hold Power builds in the same regard.

Anyone else noticed how there was absolutely NO talk about Diamond Skin before tempest and the current meta? Honestly, if you remove DS from ele, bunker Tempest becomes as useless as it was when the specialization was released (thats horrible for ppl that didn’t see tempest get developed). Marauder Tempest is way to easy to kill, since you don’t have reliable damage negation outside of dodges and Mistform. Condi tempest is non existent in PvP. Bunker is the only way and you removing DS will make it much, much worse, since you would need to swap runes then. How about Anet make it scale depending on the amount of enemies attacking you?

Diamond skin should work the other way around.

Instead 100% immunity at HP over 90%, it should reduce condition duration in proportion with missing health. At 100% health, conditions last 100%, at 50% health, conditions last 50%, 25% duration at 25% health, and so on until no duration at all at 0% health, that is, when downed.

Tomiyou.3790:

Anyone else noticed how there was absolutely NO talk about Diamond Skin before tempest and the current meta? Honestly, if you remove DS from ele, bunker Tempest becomes as useless as it was when the specialization was released (thats horrible for ppl that didn’t see tempest get developed). Marauder Tempest is way to easy to kill, since you don’t have reliable damage negation outside of dodges and Mistform. Condi tempest is non existent in PvP. Bunker is the only way and you removing DS will make it much, much worse, since you would need to swap runes then. How about Anet make it scale depending on the amount of enemies attacking you?

The thing is, Diamond Skin has always been a topic since it got changed to what it is today. The only thing different now is that it’s much more difficult even for Power builds to break through the threshold.

And again, nobody wants to see it removed, just reworked.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Diamond skin should work the other way around.

Instead 100% immunity at HP over 90%, it should reduce condition duration in proportion with missing health. At 100% health, conditions last 100%, at 50% health, conditions last 50%, 25% duration at 25% health, and so on until no duration at all at 0% health, that is, when downed.

That’s actually a pretty neat idea lol

Xillllix.3485:

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Exxcalibur.6203:

TLDR:

Waaa! Why can’t I faceroll every spec as condition reaper??

He probably doesn’t even know what chill affects eles twice more than other classes, and that without diamond skill they are just locked out of skill usage. Reapers are the clearest example of why Diamond Skin needs to stay as it is.

So basically, because a class has a distinct advantage due to certain class mechanics, that makes a poorly designed skill, that affects stat choices and completely hard-counters certain builds from multiple classes, okay to have?

There needs to be a pure counter to pure condi builds for the class with the less hp and armor. Anyway if you put all your eggs in the same basket you can’t expect not to have a counter-meta build out there. If you can’t even cleave 10% off an ele then perhaps it’s time to come to realize the fact that your build just sucks versus that class. As far as I can see Dragon Hunters, Revenants and Scrappers have no problems dealing with tempests if they chain their skills properly.

Why do you think eles play full bunker now? When cleansing water can’t clear half the chill application or torment application of a Reaper or a Revenant wtf do you expect?

Play celestial amulet or Viper, something that does a bit of damage instead of pure condi. Without versatility you can’t expect to win against every builds. People that run pure condi builds are supposed to team up with teammates that run pure support and pure damage. If you solo queue pure condi then it’s gonna fail.

Hey 1 skill negating absolutely everything condi related is ok, but running 1 element(pure condi) is not. Hypocrite much?

As of right now, only condi Reapers really struggle vs a DS ele. A chance around this would be making fear an effect rather than a condition. This would keep the strength of the trait vs condis while still making it able for Reapers to chain-cc a tempest in order to break the threshold.
I do however think that this may cause issues elsewhere in the game.

As an ele main with 2000 exclusive hours on ele, diamond skin is absolutely fine.

Duke of Thorin.7425:

As an ele main with 2000 exclusive hours on ele, diamond skin is absolutely fine.

Well, excluding the fact that this doesn’t really prove anything, the problem isn’t that DS is a God tier trait that’s unbeatable, but rather that it’s unhealthy for the game. It either hard-counters builds or is completely worthless.

Loop.8106:

As of right now, only condi Reapers really struggle vs a DS ele. A chance around this would be making fear an effect rather than a condition. This would keep the strength of the trait vs condis while still making it able for Reapers to chain-cc a tempest in order to break the threshold.
I do however think that this may cause issues elsewhere in the game.

Only condi Reapers struggle because Reapers are the only condition builds that are even being played. Even Mallyx Revenants are still hybrid builds leaning toward Power (due to Sword’s incredible damage). Heck, only half a Revenant’s skills can ever be condition-related right now due to only having one weapon and one legend for it.

So, if the only condition build that is seeing play is Reaper, and “only condition Reapers are complaining about Diamond Skin” (hint: they’re not, as this thread proves even a number of Ele players hate the trait as-is), it says nothing at all about how other condition builds fare against it. None of them can scratch it either.

Meanwhile, strong hybrid builds like Revenant or Power builds hardly notice the trait. It’s just too binary. You either win because you picked the trait (not because you out-played), or you wasted your Grandmaster.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Loop.8106:

As of right now, only condi Reapers really struggle vs a DS ele. A chance around this would be making fear an effect rather than a condition. This would keep the strength of the trait vs condis while still making it able for Reapers to chain-cc a tempest in order to break the threshold.
I do however think that this may cause issues elsewhere in the game.

Only condi Reapers struggle because Reapers are the only condition builds that are even being played. Even Mallyx Revenants are still hybrid builds leaning toward Power (due to Sword’s incredible damage). Heck, only half a Revenant’s skills can ever be condition-related right now due to only having one weapon and one legend for it.

So, if the only condition build that is seeing play is Reaper, and “only condition Reapers are complaining about Diamond Skin” (hint: they’re not, as this thread proves even a number of Ele players hate the trait as-is), it says nothing at all about how other condition builds fare against it. None of them can scratch it either.

Meanwhile, strong hybrid builds like Revenant or Power builds hardly notice the trait. It’s just too binary. You either win because you picked the trait (not because you out-played), or you wasted your Grandmaster.

Even power necros have some difficulty with it, because necromancers’ only readily available form of hard cc is fear, and the greatsword skills are slow enough that you often need hard cc to ensure that they connect.