Guild Wars 2

Rangers are cleaning up all over Khylo. Most of the field of fire restriction is gone.

This was a huge terrain nerf to Mesmer and thief and a tremendous buff to ranger, dh and war… as if they needed it.

Sadly.. this will probably eventually lead to cries of OP and a major nerf to rnager longbow. That wouldn’t bother me much. It’s an example of not looking at the consequences of a design decision.

I have a sincere question of the devs: Why do you dislike Mesmer so much?

Do you really think that mesmer is not one of those things that need a major nerf? The stupid block uptime it’s an example of not looking at the consequence of a design decision

First, that’s not really relevant to my post. Second, no I don’t think Mesmer needs a nerf. We have 1, count them, 1 build that’s acceptable for PvP. The level of protection we have is minor in comparison to that of War or DH.

Mesmer is dependent on movement. To a lesser extent confusing or at least slowing the enemy by presenting a lot of targets.

This change expressly favors ranger , war and dh. DH and war were already arguably OP and now ranger is as well on this map.

What? Warriors, and DH haven’t been buffed in forever. Thieves haven’t been touched in ages.

Ithilwen.1529:

The level of protection we have is minor in comparison to that of War

so lets compare:

war got a 3sec block, while mes has essentially 2 blocks cause you can time the 2 blocking animations better….plus EACH block spawns a phantasm, plus giving alacrity and slowness

mace has a short block, while blurred frenzy evades everything AND deals ton of dmg (for being an evading attack)

phase retreat is basically a stun break on a 10sec cd and chaos armor / storm are really good aswell

okay war got endure pain, but if he used it he doesnt have any defense anymore, while mes can blink away and kite or portal away and be completely safe

im not saying that war is up and mes is op, but just wanted to point out that mes has at least the same level of protection that war has

i also would say that a good mesmer is unkillable, while a good war is not

Supreme.3164:

Do you really think that mesmer is not one of those things that need a major nerf? The stupid block uptime it’s an example of not looking at the consequence of a design decision

Mesmer has (if traiting illusionary celerity) a 3s block on a 27s cool down, that is the highest cool down block in the entire gate when traited to reduce its cool down with 1 trait. The only things that reduce it further are persistence of memory and alacrity.

Alacrity at 50% uptime will only give 3s off the cool down now and they need to shatter to get that which leads to.

Persistence of memory will take off up to 4s off the cool down however dodging at the end of the block prevents the phantasm spawning. This deprives the mesmer of 2s of cool down reduction as well as at least 3s of alacrity assuming ofc chronophantasma.

That is without mentioning that the shield has some of the highest amount of counterplay there is in the game. If you don’t hit the first block they got 1.5s of block and a 24s cool down with no resource if you dodged the avenger spawn.

Sorry but there’s a lot more broken issues with the game and less counterplay on just about every single other class than mesmer right now especially other class blocks where only using an unblockable attack or wait is your options.

Edit: To not make this topic about just mesmers, the way I interpret the OP is that the changes to Khylo encourage more pew pewing and provide less kiting spots to all classes where you can escape ranged damage from the node.

Supreme.3164:

Do you really think that mesmer is not one of those things that need a major nerf? The stupid block uptime it’s an example of not looking at the consequence of a design decision

Mesmer is one of the weakest profs right now. I’ve mained mesmer since release and can tell you right now it’s the weakest I’ve ever played it. If you think mesmer is OP (there’s no helping you, but), go ahead and try playing a guardian, war, thief, ele, or necro right now. Engineer is also in a better spot, but is just hard to play so you may not notice how much better it is than mesmer right away.

I don’t think mes is weak however the new map makes roamers obsolete. The map is already to small which allows “slow” classes to have short walks between points. Now they removed tiny advantage roamers had and gave faceroll classes (hello dhs, wars, druids) possibility to snipe ppl from miles away from safety.

Don’t fix what is not broken :/

Cynz.9437:

I don’t think mes is weak however the new map makes roamers obsolete. The map is already to small which allows “slow” classes to have short walks between points. Now they removed tiny advantage roamers had and gave faceroll classes (hello dhs, wars, druids) possibility to snipe ppl from miles away from safety.

Don’t fix what is not broken :/

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Mesmers and Thieves had a slender mobilty advantage to offset there inability to hold points in the face of crushing aoe and dps.

Now that has been removed. Hail Queen Ranger.

Lukas.7159:

Ithilwen.1529:

The level of protection we have is minor in comparison to that of War

so lets compare:

war got a 3sec block, while mes has essentially 2 blocks cause you can time the 2 blocking animations better….plus EACH block spawns a phantasm, plus giving alacrity and slowness

mace has a short block, while blurred frenzy evades everything AND deals ton of dmg (for being an evading attack)

phase retreat is basically a stun break on a 10sec cd and chaos armor / storm are really good aswell

okay war got endure pain, but if he used it he doesnt have any defense anymore, while mes can blink away and kite or portal away and be completely safe

im not saying that war is up and mes is op, but just wanted to point out that mes has at least the same level of protection that war has

i also would say that a good mesmer is unkillable, while a good war is not

Mesmer only has access to a second block if they actually block something with the first block on Sh4. So don’t use blockable attacks while its up and you just removed 50% of their blocking abilities. You can also dodge the phantasm summon from SH4 as well, removing their ability to summon the iAvenger. BF doesn’t deal “tons” of damage. Its damage is mediocre for a rooted attack, and its rooted.

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Any class with a teleport had an advantage if they took it, this extends mainly to the 2 classes mentioned as they always take it but DH, Rev, Ele and even necro also could utilise teleports nicely on Khylo.

Realistically only warrior, engy and ranger “suffered” in Khylo which would maybe justify the easier ways up to mid.

However why did they remove the sides of the clocktower then? I guess someone at ANet thinks it’s a good idea to be able to park a ranger there and it effectively can pew pew people fighting at the sides almost.

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Why should roamers that can’t hold points not have any mobility advantage? Give a one good reason.

Would like to point out that the changes hurt Necromancer’s who use the wurm port as well. It is our only reliable disengage from a fight. I used to put it on the clock tower roof to make an escape when I got focused too hard on mid.

Ithilwen.1529:

Mesmers and Thieves had a slender mobilty advantage

heh
the old map was broken in favor of them you mean

on another note the map has always benefited ranged

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uuh6uObhz-w
Thief and Mesmer only gain a slender mobility advantage on the map.
Sorry, I had to because it’s an awesome play.
———————-
In all seriousness, I’m fine with the mobility they have. It’s the appeal of both classes in SPvP. Besides, Mesmer mobility is more of a utility in most cases than compared to what thief can make of these maps. I also don’t care that ranged classes have it easier on clock tower now.

What I do care about is how simple the map has become just with the buildings that were changed. If any change was necessary to the buildings, they should have changed the graphic of the rooftops (to the side buildings -“jumping puzzle buildings”) to be something that wasn’t straw, so players could easily see the edges and not smack their heads on nearby platforms while attempting parkour. (https://youtu.be/DIPf9MaDrBQ?t=2m56s)

The one change that I’m okay with, assuming it actually works this way now, is the inability for players to hit the buildings near mid. It would allow multiple classes to gain additional procs during fights to provide boons/leeching/life force.

Cynz.9437:

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Why should roamers that can’t hold points not have any mobility advantage? Give a one good reason.

They already have a mobility advantage. Giving a mobility advantage to the classes that already have the highest mobility in the game is silly.

Crinn.7864:

Cynz.9437:

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Why should roamers that can’t hold points not have any mobility advantage? Give a one good reason.

They already have a mobility advantage. Giving a mobility advantage to the classes that already have the highest mobility in the game is silly.

You still didn’t give me a give me one good reason why roamers that can’t really hold point shouldn’t have advantage in mobility department. Given how small Khylo is, roamers do need extra mobility there BECAUSE point holders have absurdly short way between points there.

Cynz.9437:

Crinn.7864:

They already have a mobility advantage.

You still didn’t give me a give me one good reason

this looks like a pretty good reason to me. high mobility classes already have a huge advantage, it doesn’t make sense to give them a bigger one.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Cynz.9437:

Crinn.7864:

They already have a mobility advantage.

You still didn’t give me a give me one good reason

this looks like a pretty good reason to me. high mobility classes already have a huge advantage, it doesn’t make sense to give them a bigger one.

Which is the huge advantage?

in general mobility has a huge advantage.
khylo now gives ranged a huge advantage.
its one map, get over it. ranged has always been vastly inferior in pvp. burst melee and bunker melee have been around for ages, still dominate, and will continue to dominate in a capture point based mode.
stop crying that ranged now has an upper hand when melee has always been better.

This game needs generally more cover in all maps, and maybe some sort of ammo count that gives a rhythm to ranged weapons by having to recharge every 6/12 shots so they pause at intervals like when a melee weapon slows down a bit for the third attack of the autoattack chain.

On a map as small as Kyhlo, horizontal mobility itself is very strong. There’s several classes that could easily catch up to ‘high mobility classes’ such as the Thief and Mesmer, when the fight moved from Clocktower to either the Windmill or Mansion point. The ‘high mobility classes’ only have a real advantage when vertical mobility is a factor. Like when you move from either Windmill or Mansion, to the Clocktower point.

Now, there’s two major factors that are indirect nerfs to a roamer that relies on it’s vertical mobility with this new Kyhlo.
The dumbed down jumping puzzles are easy enough to accomplish blindfolded after taking a 2 second look at them. The distance required to move from the bottom to the top of the Clocktower using these jumps (really, nothing here is remotely puzzling) is so short that it’s really easy for classes such as the Druid, Scrapper, Warrior, DH to actually follow up and even catch up to a roamer class that has the advantage of a vertical port.
Plus, it’s really easy to keep tabs on the movement of any roamer classes because the entire map is open, which is in turn an indirect buff to any node-holding type of build because they require a whole lot less awareness to make the right rotation at the right time.

The element of surprise is gone, that’s a big deal.