Guild Wars 2

I am making this thread to open up some discussion about what I believe to be an issue in regards to the long term success of Guild Wars 2. I find that the community(even other communities now) is increasingly relying on the developer to implement structure or activities with which to compete, or to hold their attention. I believe that this is the wrong way to look at a game that we, the community, enjoy and want to succeed in the long run. Note however, this is not to say that the developer should never implement new things, or improve upon things they have, but for the community to be less reliant, overall, on what Anet does.

To draw a comparison, let’s look at WoW’s early PvP community. (considered by some the best time for PvP in the game)The community was, before the implementation of battlegrounds and areas, largely self supporting. Forums were a place to arrange large battles, settle disputes between guilds, or between people. Tournaments were arranged, 1v1 and even larger groups of people in particular zones would arrange to fight. There were games played on the forums, like tagging certain players to find and kill. The point being, that the community took the initiative.

Now, I understand that Anet has thrown the Esport goal out there. But, I think it’s up to us to push this game forward so that it can achieve it’s full potential. In my opinion, I believe that a game’s community is the main drive behind any online games success. This community can make this game great even if they never put in arenas, or dedicated servers.(which they already stated they would, and will also help the community) Also, things that the community do can help Anet decide what to implement, and when.

Finally, I’ll list some things we can do, as a community, to keep the life pumping until Anet adds more features; even things we can do afterwards.

-Create our own match-ups and duels. Their are empty servers that can be utilized as vehicles for small skirmishes or duels, like 1v1 up to 4v4. (Fighters joining, then extras to prevent disruptive players)

-Recording match ups made.

-Tie WvWvW conflicts into sPvP. Known commanders dueling, or things of that nature.

-Guilds can host events for small-scale GvG activities.

I hope to see some more ideas here in this thread as well.

Ah, and “best of” profession fights would be great.

I only need a ladder, observ would be nice but i honostly just need a ladder.

CLundkvist.7814:

I only need a ladder, observ would be nice but i honostly just need a ladder.

This post is to encourage us to do other things while we wait for an alternative ladder. However, if you want to climb a ladder now, you could get a team together and go for some QP right?

The promised “custom servers” should really help in this regard, assuming they provide a better way for the community to organize such things. In the interim, there’s usually enough empty servers that they should be able to be used this way.

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

Better said than I was going to post.

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

This here isn’t the dev’s forcing us as players to do anything. This is players taking charge of the situation to make a better experience for ourselves. Neat idea honestly.

I’ve advocated this idea before, and I fully support it in every regard. I also agree that custom servers will help very much in this regard.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a custom league became much more prevalent as the de facto competitive sPvP over the built-in tournament system.

That is, if players can accept that they have the potential to grab their own fun by the marbles.

Glad to see some positive comments here. Please, offer any ideas that come to mind.

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

I fail? What about the failing aspect of this game that was supposed to be E Sport material? Why should players who sought this aspect stick with GW2, which currently hasn’t delivered on this aspect? Rather than waiting patiently, many are leaving for other games that do have an E Sport material such as LoL. Then I guess there are players like you who want to hug and do community hosted event to wait until sPvP does become E Sport material. It helps. But it doesn’t solve the problem.

That’s why there’s us.

What do we do? We try to shoot the developers in the right direction. We remind the developers of GW greatest strength. We remind them what made GW1 great, primarily GvG and HA. We remind them of these missing elements. We want to see sPvP more on Twitch TV. We want GW2 to be great. We are the gadflies. That’s why we complain.

tOss.9024:

I am making this thread to open up some discussion about what I believe to be an issue in regards to the long term success of Guild Wars 2. I find that the community(even other communities now) is increasingly relying on the developer to implement structure or activities with which to compete, or to hold their attention. I believe that this is the wrong way to look at a game that we, the community, enjoy and want to succeed in the long run. Note however, this is not to say that the developer should never implement new things, or improve upon things they have, but for the community to be less reliant, overall, on what Anet does.

To draw a comparison, let’s look at WoW’s early PvP community. (considered by some the best time for PvP in the game)The community was, before the implementation of battlegrounds and areas, largely self supporting. Forums were a place to arrange large battles, settle disputes between guilds, or between people. Tournaments were arranged, 1v1 and even larger groups of people in particular zones would arrange to fight. There were games played on the forums, like tagging certain players to find and kill. The point being, that the community took the initiative.

Now, I understand that Anet has thrown the Esport goal out there. But, I think it’s up to us to push this game forward so that it can achieve it’s full potential. In my opinion, I believe that a game’s community is the main drive behind any online games success. This community can make this game great even if they never put in arenas, or dedicated servers.(which they already stated they would, and will also help the community) Also, things that the community do can help Anet decide what to implement, and when.

Finally, I’ll list some things we can do, as a community, to keep the life pumping until Anet adds more features; even things we can do afterwards.

-Create our own match-ups and duels. Their are empty servers that can be utilized as vehicles for small skirmishes or duels, like 1v1 up to 4v4. (Fighters joining, then extras to prevent disruptive players)

-Recording match ups made.

-Tie WvWvW conflicts into sPvP. Known commanders dueling, or things of that nature.

-Guilds can host events for small-scale GvG activities.

I hope to see some more ideas here in this thread as well.

This game has been pushed to it’s limit as far as the aspect of pvp. Everyone knows in order to be successful you are forced to run bunker classes and your everyday cookie cutter classes/builds to succeed. People played it and got bored and moved on.

I think comparing this game to vanilla wow was not accurate way to describe how pvp can be better in this game by doing what you stated.
1. This game is not faction based (Horde vs Alliance)
2. You are not forced to pvp in contested areas only in wvw.
3. WvW is a zerg fest and in no way balanced.
4. Spvp is conquest based so you cannot 1v1(unless you get into empty server and hope no one joins it.)

The pvp community is almost non existent go to the mists and go look at how many people are in there.

Well first and for most, this plan needs some kind of way to communicate. Like site, board or facebook page. Someone with skills in programming sites would be an asset.

Phira.3970:

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

I fail? What about the failing aspect of this game that was supposed to be E Sport material? Why should players who sought this aspect stick with GW2, which currently hasn’t delivered on this aspect? Rather than waiting patiently, many are leaving for other games that do have an E Sport material such as LoL. Then I guess there are players like you who want to hug and do community hosted event to wait until sPvP does become E Sport material.

Then there’s us.

What do we do? We try to shoot the developers in the right direction. We remind the developers of GW greatest strength. We remind them what made GW1 great, primarily GvG and HA. That’s why we complain.

“Try to shoot the developers in the right direction?”

That’s what you think you’re doing? That would be cute if it weren’t so incredibly sad.

Here’s the deal, do you want to have fun? Do you find you’re not having fun with what the developers provided? Then do something about it. Crying on the forums about how awful you think Anet is, and what a terrible job you think they’re doing isn’t ever going to accomplish a single thing. You’re not “pushing them in the right direction,” you’re either achieving absolutely nothing or making the situation even worse than it already is.

“Remind them of what made GW1 great?” The revisionist history about HA is pathetic, and it doesn’t help anyone. Fortunately, Anet likely has a much better account of what really happened throughout their previous game’s lifetime.

If you want the game to be an esport, and therefore want it to follow an esport’s development model, why do you constantly lie, falsify, and revise the history of the games you want them to emulate? How does that help them? How does that help you? It doesn’t, and nothing that’s being done by the people and behaviors you’re advocating for helps anyone.

Have a suggestion? By all means, make it. That’s what this thread is doing. But quit clogging up every single thread with the same tired chorus of crying and self-pity. Every time someone tries to post something positive or new, it’s immediately attacked by a dozen people insisting that their entirely ignorant, unresearched, blindly conceived “fix” for the game is the one and only thing that could ever “rescue” this game, and that anyone who disagrees with them is some sort of evil fanboy who is standing in their way. We don’t need 12 threads on the first page of the forum declaring the death of sPvP. We don’t need 8 different threads explaining that thief/guardian/mesmer is ruining the game.

You’re not contributing anything, and the fact that you actually seem to think you’re “helping” by doing what you’re doing is extremely sad. When you have something worthwhile to say, that’s novel or adds some sort of insight, we’d all love to hear it. But until then, don’t bother poisoning any more threads with your babble.

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

You can’t change the channel because there’s only one channel available.

You want people to create their own channel so they can experience something competitive?

I think most people will just turn the TV off.

Chakuna.6325:

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

You can’t change the channel because there’s only one channel available.

You want people to create their own channel so they can experience something competitive?

I think most people will just turn the TV off.

I think this person said it better than I could have.

Dual.8953:

Well first and for most, this plan needs some kind of way to communicate. Like site, board or facebook page. Someone with skills in programming sites would be an asset.

True, I think a facebook page and these boards would be the best thing for now. I have some java experience but none in html 5. So a site design would be tough. If we got enough people communicating however, we may be able to get sites like gw2guru involved.

This game has been pushed to it’s limit as far as the aspect of pvp. Everyone knows in order to be successful you are forced to run bunker classes and your everyday cookie cutter classes/builds to succeed. People played it and got bored and moved on.

I think comparing this game to vanilla wow was not accurate way to describe how pvp can be better in this game by doing what you stated.
1. This game is not faction based (Horde vs Alliance)
2. You are not forced to pvp in contested areas only in wvw.
3. WvW is a zerg fest and in no way balanced.
4. Spvp is conquest based so you cannot 1v1(unless you get into empty server and hope no one joins it.)

The pvp community is almost non existent go to the mists and go look at how many people are in there.

I think the community hasn’t even made a real effort to push this game to it’s limit. The comparison was merely to exemplify the course of action that they took, I don’t see how it fails in that regard.
1. Factions are irrelevant in getting active communication throughout a playerbase.
2. Being “forced” to pvp is also irrelevant to the point. Forced PvP =/= player organized PvP.
3. What does the WvWvW balance have to do with this post?
4. I included the fact we may need “fillers.” However, in the case of larger 1v1 brackets these “fillers” would simply be participants waiting there turn. Or, in larger 2v2 or more matches “fillers” could double as cameras.

Chakuna.6325:

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

And that’s why you fail. Nothing is being forced upon anyone. If you want to have fun in sPvP and that’s not happening utilizing the developer provided content, rather than incessantly whining day in and day out, wouldn’t it make more sense to try organize something to have fun? Isn’t that what this is all about?

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

You can’t change the channel because there’s only one channel available.

You want people to create their own channel so they can experience something competitive?

I think most people will just turn the TV off.

Then the trick is getting enough dedicated people to join in. As the core group grows, it’ll become more visible to those on the outside, and will get easier to get into. It can grow to the point that people those that “Just turn the TV off” will consider it a viable option. In short, many great things start small.

Dual.8953:

Chakuna.6325:

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

You can’t change the channel because there’s only one channel available.

You want people to create their own channel so they can experience something competitive?

I think most people will just turn the TV off.

Then the trick is getting enough dedicated people to join in. As the core group grows, it’ll become more visible to those on the outside, and will get easier to get into. It can grow to the point that people those that “Just turn the TV off” will consider it a viable option. In short, many great things start small.

Seriously, what is ’’IT’’?

There’s no Custom Arena’s/WvW maps, and you can’t world PvP (or duel). They’re really limiting our options here.

I understand you organize stuff in hotjoin lobbies and WvW… But that’s not going to satisfy the competitive need that players want.

Chakuna.6325:

Dual.8953:

Chakuna.6325:

Syeria.4812:

Phira.3970:

I don’t think it should be forced upon the players to find clever ways to try to have fun in PvP. That’s mostly fault with the developers.

If someone you live with turned on the TV in the room then left, and you don’t like the show that’s on, doesn’t it make more sense to go over and turn it off/change the channel instead of screaming at the top of your lungs how you don’t like what’s playing?

You can’t change the channel because there’s only one channel available.

You want people to create their own channel so they can experience something competitive?

I think most people will just turn the TV off.

Then the trick is getting enough dedicated people to join in. As the core group grows, it’ll become more visible to those on the outside, and will get easier to get into. It can grow to the point that people those that “Just turn the TV off” will consider it a viable option. In short, many great things start small.

Seriously, what is ’’IT’’?

There’s no Custom Arena’s/WvW maps, and you can’t world PvP (or duel). They’re really limiting our options here.

I understand you organize stuff in hotjoin lobbies and WvW… But that’s not going to satisfy the competitive need that players, and Gw2 sorely need.

Could start off with Player created customs. Like how in GW1 Ectos became a form of currency or how during Wintersday, everyone went Grenth in Odd Servers and Dwayna in Even.

Thank god for this thread! Well done sir, and it’s refreshing to see someone with the right attitude and desire. I completely agree with what you’re saying. After all, it’s really, in the end, the community that ends up making a game desirable or not. No one wants to be party of a wining, kittening, sense of ridiculous entitlement community. This even reflects how well the dev’s work. It’s like being a customer service agent, if you work somewhere with lots of people that have the right attitude and take pride in their work while having fun, everyone does a better job and your customers are happier. I wish more of us could approach this thing with the right attitude like you OP, not only because will we then have more fun playing the game, but I’m sure the game will head places that we want much faster.

Now if we could just get people to stop yelling about how the sky is falling…. The game hasn’t even been out a year yet. Cool your kittening jets lol.

KnarleyMarley.6937:

Thank god for this thread! Well done sir, and it’s refreshing to see someone with the right attitude and desire. I completely agree with what you’re saying. After all, it’s really, in the end, the community that ends up making a game desirable or not. No one wants to be party of a wining, kittening, sense of ridiculous entitlement community. This even reflects how well the dev’s work. It’s like being a customer service agent, if you work somewhere with lots of people that have the right attitude and take pride in their work while having fun, everyone does a better job and your customers are happier. I wish more of us could approach this thing with the right attitude like you OP, not only because will we then have more fun playing the game, but I’m sure the game will head places that we want much faster.

Now if we could just get people to stop yelling about how the sky is falling…. The game hasn’t even been out a year yet. Cool your kittening jets lol.

I appreciate the sentiment. <3
Please, direct guild mates etc to third thread. Get the word out so we can get this ball rolling.

I’m of the “if you build it, they will come” opinion. If someone sets up some kind of tournament league and uses empty servers for it, then more power to them. But you can’t fault the players for wanting the features that have been promised.

KnarleyMarley.6937:

Thank god for this thread! Well done sir, and it’s refreshing to see someone with the right attitude and desire. I completely agree with what you’re saying. After all, it’s really, in the end, the community that ends up making a game desirable or not. No one wants to be party of a wining, kittening, sense of ridiculous entitlement community. This even reflects how well the dev’s work. It’s like being a customer service agent, if you work somewhere with lots of people that have the right attitude and take pride in their work while having fun, everyone does a better job and your customers are happier. I wish more of us could approach this thing with the right attitude like you OP, not only because will we then have more fun playing the game, but I’m sure the game will head places that we want much faster.

Now if we could just get people to stop yelling about how the sky is falling…. The game hasn’t even been out a year yet. Cool your kittening jets lol.

omg that analogy is terrible…

In the real world, it’s the companies job to keep the customers happy, if the customers aren’t happy, they stop paying for their services.

If you haven’t noticed already, 99% of the PvP player base left along time ago, and they aren’t coming back… yet.

I’m sorry to break this to you, but, The sky has already fallen. And it’s not the communities fault, it’s the developers.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Wow, what an amazing thread. Thanks for starting it tOss!

It’s a great idea and one that represents a very different point of view. You guys can do a lot to push the current game, and I applaud you for making an effort.

But at the same time, some of this still falls on myself and other devs. We will continue to listen to your posts about balance. We will continue to push features forward that help you to enjoy the game (like custom arenas, matched tourneys, QP rankings, leaderboards, a way to spectate the game, etc).

I know it sucks that everything isn’t done right away, but just know that we’re still working on the features we’ve mentioned before.

Until you get custom arenas, you can definitely use the current PvP browser to set up 5on5 matches and settle disputes via 1on1 duels. We don’t want to tell you how to enjoy the game, and we commend you for using the current systems as you wait for future features to come online.

Thanks Jonathon. I hope you guys do great things with the game, and I’m confident you all are trying your best to give everyone a great experience. I appreciate the response.
Just hurry up with those custom servers. ;)

Chakuna.6325:

I’m sorry to break this to you, but, The sky has already fallen.

No plz no !
I havent played my Ranger much

Someone did this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO6tyJ8oG6E

I’m impressed by that video. Should find out who they are and bring them here. hah

To be honest this game lacks real competition (and this is coming from a competitive gamer of all genres) I love this game for it’s eye candy …. and basically my GF loves it (a bit of a girly game) – This game would thrive with more competition. Player driven economies are the way of the future – it shows progression and feels rewarding in the end – selling anonymously on a trade post is great to keep an identify safe – but feels very… less rewarding than a direct trade or stall like system – the currently “selling” on a trade post feels like garbage dumping. I’d say allowing people to trade/duel/interact a bit more directly with one another would be a HUGE +1 for gw2 – I guarantee it would spark a lot of interest from players who currently aren’t too fond of the game in its current state :P – hopefully you guys take initiative on some of this … because there are game developers who are.

Chakuna.6325:

I’m sorry to break this to you, but, The sky has already fallen. And it’s not the communities fault, it’s the developers.

Melodramatic bile. This game’s PvP isn’t in the best state currently, but there is still a long road ahead regardless of what the apocalyptic chanters repeat. There is nothing wrong with a lot of the criticism that goes around here as a lot of it is deserved, but to say the game is flat out DEAD at this point is rather short sighted.

This community stuff could be fun and breath life back into the sPvP scene. I’d be up for anything anyone tries.

If anyone is interested in arranging something PM me in game.

Any have some ideas what we could use for “currency?” Im thinking maybe unid dyes or something?

While i do agree that we as community should be responsible for lot of actions, i still do not agree that we can change the game as it is right now. And the reason is – because our communities are smaller and smaller.. With less people interested, less people is going to enjoy the game.

I did a lot of work for GW2 actually i managed our small PVP CZech community since 2007. It was growing every day till … well.. till October. From that time on i see only hudge decrease in interest from people.

So we managed 1v1 duel arena for our community. It was great.
http://youtu.be/sBd0hcIwBNc
http://youtu.be/jrcdHAEF2Gc
since it was sucessfull we have our next event this Thursday in tourmanent style:
http://www.playzone.cz/turnaje/gw2-guild-hallcz-1v1-arena-1/seznam-hracu
Its gona be 8 players in single elimination tournament.

Thats all great, but its not helping that much because people dont want to spent time with the game. And why? because they dont enjoy PVP. So i asked lot of players why they dont enjoy the PVP ?
answers? lot of reasons – but the biggest issue of GW2 as they see it
GW2 has great combat, nice PVP mechanic, pretty much good balance compared to other MMO´S at start, but – there is no matchmaking.. therefore guilds / teams / casual players are offten playing with no sence of acomplishment, with no chance to winning against best teams or they win everything because they fighting PUGS instead of organized teams.

I think GW2 has a great community that wants it to be a top game.

Custom maps would help, deathmatch would help, dueling would help.

There are fanwebsites that want to do these things. The devil is in the details I have seen too many chosen MMO games with potential fall flat because of slow response to the community. (Im looking at you Warhammer)

@ Anet Dont fear adding dueling and deathmatch over worries of imbalance cries. Look how many people you are forcing to go to empty servers just to duel when we could be building a community in the MIST dueling and testing with each other.

Dueling people is how I formed my top arena team (WoW), its a social part of PvP games and spvp is a disconnected anti social mess right now.

Dueling could be done via Custom Arenas – therefore they are adding it. Actually you can do whatever you want in Custom which sounds great.

But Customs can´t fix everything

Naw dueling needs to be casual fun and social in the Mist where people can watch chat and duel. There are too many private disconnected aspects in the games PvP already.

You target someone type /duel if they accept you duel simple fast easy… got your butt kicked want to test something else no need to leave the server to go change runes etc.. no need for the person waiting for you to comeback to a server they can be dueling someone else.

I cant count the number of times people dueling would decide to go raid or group up for arenas or BG’s. It was community that GW2 just does not have.

I find it extremely amusing how players need to organise themselves in order to bring life and fun to GW2 after mere 3 months already, while it took GW a whooping 5-6 years to get to such a pitiful state of affairs. And even that was largely due to lack of proper devs’ attention and often inadequate skill balance choices (aka the dart-board balancing), especially because Anet had given up on GWpvp in favour of the pve game that is GW2. How sad.

Chakuna.6325:

KnarleyMarley.6937:

Thank god for this thread! Well done sir, and it’s refreshing to see someone with the right attitude and desire. I completely agree with what you’re saying. After all, it’s really, in the end, the community that ends up making a game desirable or not. No one wants to be party of a wining, kittening, sense of ridiculous entitlement community. This even reflects how well the dev’s work. It’s like being a customer service agent, if you work somewhere with lots of people that have the right attitude and take pride in their work while having fun, everyone does a better job and your customers are happier. I wish more of us could approach this thing with the right attitude like you OP, not only because will we then have more fun playing the game, but I’m sure the game will head places that we want much faster.

Now if we could just get people to stop yelling about how the sky is falling…. The game hasn’t even been out a year yet. Cool your kittening jets lol.

omg that analogy is terrible…

In the real world, it’s the companies job to keep the customers happy, if the customers aren’t happy, they stop paying for their services.

If you haven’t noticed already, 99% of the PvP player base left along time ago, and they aren’t coming back… yet.

I’m sorry to break this to you, but, The sky has already fallen. And it’s not the communities fault, it’s the developers.

How is that analogy terrible? I can tell you it’s the truth because I’ve worked extensively in both environments and situations. Another thing that you learn, there are some people you will just never please. They want everything the way they want it right then and there, they b*tch and complain etc…. etc…. and it’s just never good enough. Do you really honestly think the people who made this game, spent all that time on it and decided to make it a FTP game as well… do you really honestly think they don’t care. Do you really honestly think they’re not working on it. By the way, those end in periods because they’re rhetorical. But hey, if you don’t believe me, go work customer service somewhere. Have no fun with it and focus on all the b*tch*ng and whining, tell me how well it goes, tell me how hard you want to work, tell me how on your toes you feel. Now go talk to lots of customer service reps. to have your problems solved and be miserable and rude, see how good the service you get is… Good luck with that life thing too pessimist.

As long as ANet can´t decide if GW2 is supposed to be a “Theme Park” or a “Sandbox” it will hemorrhage player interest and thus the very thing that OP laments.

With players comes player generated content.
If all players can do is hit 1,2,3 to anonymous quasi mobs in PvP then things won´t change a bit.
Trying to “out WoW” WoW in the new Fractals doesn´t create player loyalty either.

It´s a somewhat steady way downhill unless the Devs make some hard hitting decisions. We can only interact and play in the game that is given to us and with the tools the Devs provide us.

Going outside, heck even registering on foreign sites for a simple LFG tool is a non-trivial security risk.
BTW which is something that a DEV should be able to quickly hack together using their own WEB based AWESOMNIUM.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Wow, what an amazing thread. Thanks for starting it tOss!

It’s a great idea and one that represents a very different point of view. You guys can do a lot to push the current game, and I applaud you for making an effort.

But at the same time, some of this still falls on myself and other devs. We will continue to listen to your posts about balance. We will continue to push features forward that help you to enjoy the game (like custom arenas, matched tourneys, QP rankings, leaderboards, a way to spectate the game, etc).

I know it sucks that everything isn’t done right away, but just know that we’re still working on the features we’ve mentioned before.

Until you get custom arenas, you can definitely use the current PvP browser to set up 5on5 matches and settle disputes via 1on1 duels. We don’t want to tell you how to enjoy the game, and we commend you for using the current systems as you wait for future features to come online.

Although this sounds great to hear Jonathan and thank you for making a valiant effort. I think i can speak for a lot of people on here who are frustrated and or left. I think we the pvp community are getting treated as 2nd rate citizens. The amount of effort that goes into putting those pve events and even adding new content.In a short amount of time, Just shows us that they have the work force to churn pvp content out faster than its current pace. It also shows us that Anet as a whole could of done a better job at providing us with a much better pvp experience than what we currently have. I can guarantee you this is why the mists is a ghost town. It would be nice to get more people working on your team because you know what needs to get done. You just don’t have the work force.

tOss.9024:

This game has been pushed to it’s limit as far as the aspect of pvp. Everyone knows in order to be successful you are forced to run bunker classes and your everyday cookie cutter classes/builds to succeed. People played it and got bored and moved on.

I think comparing this game to vanilla wow was not accurate way to describe how pvp can be better in this game by doing what you stated.
1. This game is not faction based (Horde vs Alliance)
2. You are not forced to pvp in contested areas only in wvw.
3. WvW is a zerg fest and in no way balanced.
4. Spvp is conquest based so you cannot 1v1(unless you get into empty server and hope no one joins it.)

The pvp community is almost non existent go to the mists and go look at how many people are in there.

I think the community hasn’t even made a real effort to push this game to it’s limit. The comparison was merely to exemplify the course of action that they took, I don’t see how it fails in that regard.
1. Factions are irrelevant in getting active communication throughout a playerbase.
2. Being “forced” to pvp is also irrelevant to the point. Forced PvP =/= player organized PvP.
3. What does the WvWvW balance have to do with this post?
4. I included the fact we may need “fillers.” However, in the case of larger 1v1 brackets these “fillers” would simply be participants waiting there turn. Or, in larger 2v2 or more matches “fillers” could double as cameras.

1. Actually Factions are revelant because it created the disputes which caused all the world pvp goodness.
2. Being forced to pvp was what helped fuel the battles and create rivalry.
3. I used wvw as a way to compare wow pvp in its vanilla state were most of the pvp was world pvp not instanced zones(like wvwvw).
4. I agree with you on this anyone who pvp’s loves to duel it helps you test builds and also in the process makes you better better player. You also benefit from learning more from your class.

The effort has been made buddy the problem is we don’t have to many options we either spvp(conquest) or wvwvw. We dont have much room to work with. In vanilla and i hate bringing it up. You still had bg’s(Ctf,conquest,av)World pvp(Tauren Mill, Fighting over world bosses etc..),Duels,and Gurubashi arena i am sure you remember!

Xom.9264:

Naw dueling needs to be casual fun and social in the Mist where people can watch chat and duel. There are too many private disconnected aspects in the games PvP already.

You target someone type /duel if they accept you duel simple fast easy… got your butt kicked want to test something else no need to leave the server to go change runes etc.. no need for the person waiting for you to comeback to a server they can be dueling someone else.

I cant count the number of times people dueling would decide to go raid or group up for arenas or BG’s. It was community that GW2 just does not have.

I can see your point now – but since i do understeand what you mean, i think its just not needed righ now. It would be nice to have feature in future when the basic is working..

till that time, it can be replicated somehow.. even now 1v1 duels are going well…

one question…..Why?

Dont get me wrong love the gw2 game but….why?

If the systems aren’t in the game why should we go out of our way to make a makeshift infrastructure that would be semi stable at best……

Should of been launched with it……

Current system is like LoL w/o ELO or GvG’s in GW1 without a rating system….

Most people have moved on to the new halo or the new cod and even back to WoW…..and with planet side 2 coming in mere hours…..there really is no point in pvping until these BASIC structures are in….

there is no way to push GW2 with no tools for it in game

I don’t want to sound like an old fogey, but as someone who has participated in the fighting game community since street fighter 2, who has witnessed the birth of multiplayer PC games before broadband internet via LAN events, and more recently seen competitive communities form for games like Dark Souls and Super Smash Bros, games actively designed to prevent organized competition….
I don’t want to sound like an old fogey, but jeez, kids these days….

JonathanSharp.7094:

We will continue to listen to your posts about balance.

If this means you fix the balance in one game mode and break classes in two others, please do us a favor and stop listening.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We will continue to listen to your posts about balance.

well if we look at the last patch you guys are not listening