Guild Wars 2

I normally don’t agree with the “Asura Advantage” but this is pretty clear cut and needs addressing.

Been saying this since beta. Asuras OP.

This is one of the many many reasons why there need to be CAST BARS. Something I have wanted ever since launch.

This is also a WvW problem, and it would be great of Anet can do something about this.

This must be fixed asap

Been said from beta.

It’s so wrong on so many levels.

This has been said too many times already. ANet, give us the option to make the opponent displayed as a generic human. I’ll even pay real money for it. You can even make it a gem store item. Here is my money, please take it and give the players a way to normalize the opponents’ models.

vazor.2903:

This is one of the many many reasons why there need to be CAST BARS. Something I have wanted ever since launch.

You clearly haven’t even read the OP.

Yes, many of us want cast bars, because reading animations is hard enough with differing race sizes (i.e. asura are tiny) and then we get visual clutter and minions and spirit procs and horrible camera problems…

But the OP’s point isn’t that.

Sunshine.5014:

This has been said too many times already. ANet, give us the option to make the opponent displayed as a generic human. I’ll even pay real money for it. You can even make it a gem store item. Here is my money, please take it and give the players a way to normalize the opponents’ models.

This. They can look however they want on their screen, but on our screens they should be normalized to prevent abuse of the system.

Anet, you already have a system in place that swaps character models for generic standardized ones that’s used for PvE and WvW culling (i.e., if I set my options to “low detail models”). It can’t be that hard to toggle it on for sPVP as well so that we at least have the option to use it. If it’s fine in WvW, you’re obviously okay with it in a PvP setting.

Normalized sizes in pvp, like SAB.

This isn’t just an sPvP thing though, is it? I’m a WvW player and I’m sure this has an impact on me as well!

While we are at it, someone should also test the hitmarkers and add to the OP.

This thread needs to be kept on the front page until we see an acceptable response from a dev.

“Soon” isn’t an acceptable response.

Sunshine.5014:

This has been said too many times already. ANet, give us the option to make the opponent displayed as a generic human. I’ll even pay real money for it. You can even make it a gem store item. Here is my money, please take it and give the players a way to normalize the opponents’ models.

Super Adventure Box made all characters the same size. Is it too hard for them to implement that scaling to pvp?

They will fix this right after they remove Skyhammer from SoloQ.

People have been telling this for almost two years.
Anet doesn’t listen, because yolo. Yes, yolo, cos they don’t even talk to people starting this discussion.
Won’t probably happen until new PvP mode comes, which is in 10 years.

This is a pretty huge concern for anyone who take pvp seriously. And the tech to make other people display as a generic model is already in the game. This needs to be fixed.

Liberis.9573:

From Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/24e85y/the_asura_pvp_advantage_is_even_more_insane_than/

Arenanet always championed that they don’t want castbars in the UI because they want the game to be based around animations. A fair goal. Yet we are getting hit by damage we CLEARLY evaded just because some animations scale with character size, giving Asurans an incredible advantage in PVP because opponents cannot see where damage is.

After seeing Denshi reroll mini asura for his Ele in the ToL I did the same for my rather huge Norn ele. Noticing something strange I did some range check tests…

For reference, my female Norn is about 1/4th of the max Norn size, and my Asura is as small as they get.

First, Churning Earth.
Both the animation and the aoe range circle match, and the skill does damage inside this exact area. http://i.imgur.com/SdkBjpb.png ¹ and http://i.imgur.com/PnMgdzx.png ²

Next, Drake’s Breath.
On the Norn, the animation matches up almost perfectly with the range the skill does damage at. Max Damage range: http://i.imgur.com/80FvzGv.png ³ and just ouside of range: http://i.imgur.com/efE6QMr.png ⁴

Also, yay, pretty ele animations.

Anyway, now see what happens when you compare the animation to the real range the skill has on the tiny asura:

The exact spot the Norn was standing on. http://i.imgur.com/g2VLNzf.png ⁵
The animation doesn’t even reach half the range the skill really has. Your opponents can clearly stand outside of your burning fire yet still take damage from invisible things. This shouldn’t happen in a game that is based around reading the enemy through his animations to counter them.

I also tested Lightning Whip, Ring of Earth and Frozen Burst. They behave the same as Drake’s Breath, the animation not even reaching half the range the skill really has. http://i.imgur.com/jAAq95j.png ⁶
http://i.imgur.com/EGWkQ4H.png ⁷
http://i.imgur.com/CVBBFll.png ⁸

From some further tests on the elementalists it seems skills that are either projectiles (like Dagger Fire Auto attack) or have AOE indicator circles like Ring of Fire are the same size no matter your character size. But I suspect all Skills that aren’t single target and don’t fall into the 2 mentioned categories are effected by this animation issue (like Warrior Hammer swings and cleaves like that).
Which is huge.

Is this why all the mlg elite players use asura?

sorrychief.2563:

Liberis.9573:

From Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/24e85y/the_asura_pvp_advantage_is_even_more_insane_than/

Arenanet always championed that they don’t want castbars in the UI because they want the game to be based around animations. A fair goal. Yet we are getting hit by damage we CLEARLY evaded just because some animations scale with character size, giving Asurans an incredible advantage in PVP because opponents cannot see where damage is.

After seeing Denshi reroll mini asura for his Ele in the ToL I did the same for my rather huge Norn ele. Noticing something strange I did some range check tests…

For reference, my female Norn is about 1/4th of the max Norn size, and my Asura is as small as they get.

First, Churning Earth.
Both the animation and the aoe range circle match, and the skill does damage inside this exact area. http://i.imgur.com/SdkBjpb.png ¹ and http://i.imgur.com/PnMgdzx.png ²

Next, Drake’s Breath.
On the Norn, the animation matches up almost perfectly with the range the skill does damage at. Max Damage range: http://i.imgur.com/80FvzGv.png ³ and just ouside of range: http://i.imgur.com/efE6QMr.png ⁴

Also, yay, pretty ele animations.

Anyway, now see what happens when you compare the animation to the real range the skill has on the tiny asura:

The exact spot the Norn was standing on. http://i.imgur.com/g2VLNzf.png ⁵
The animation doesn’t even reach half the range the skill really has. Your opponents can clearly stand outside of your burning fire yet still take damage from invisible things. This shouldn’t happen in a game that is based around reading the enemy through his animations to counter them.

I also tested Lightning Whip, Ring of Earth and Frozen Burst. They behave the same as Drake’s Breath, the animation not even reaching half the range the skill really has. http://i.imgur.com/jAAq95j.png ⁶
http://i.imgur.com/EGWkQ4H.png ⁷
http://i.imgur.com/CVBBFll.png ⁸

From some further tests on the elementalists it seems skills that are either projectiles (like Dagger Fire Auto attack) or have AOE indicator circles like Ring of Fire are the same size no matter your character size. But I suspect all Skills that aren’t single target and don’t fall into the 2 mentioned categories are effected by this animation issue (like Warrior Hammer swings and cleaves like that).
Which is huge.

Is this why all the mlg elite players use asura?

Either Asuras or humans.

Other than that, movement is more precise while playing an asura:

I love GS warrior a lot, and I used to play as a max sized norn. And I used to have a lot of problems moving precisely, I used to bang in places, fall from ledges (like clocktower) and so on.
So I decided to re-roll asura. You have no idea how much my movement and my effectiveness improved. I can whitstand 2v1s for a lot more time because I can see what the enemy is doing, and I can move around more efficiently.

redslion.9675:

I can whitstand 2v1s for a lot more time because I can see what the enemy is doing, and I can move around more efficiently.

Yeah, that and the fact the enemy can’t see what you are doing helps tremendously.

“Fear not fellow citiziens, our asura krewe are already working on a revolutionary solution to this problem. Soon you will all be able to transform into an asura, thanks to our newest invention – the Hologramo-Asurinatix. Our brightest researchers and technicians have been taking part in this project and, you may be sure of it, it will not fail!”
:)

I’ve always found this a glaring problem. I’d say “I’m glad this is getting attention”, but it’s ‘gotten attention’ so many times since launch I’m having serious doubts anything is going to be done about it.

Atoss.1056:

“Fear not fellow citiziens, our asura krewe are already working on a revolutionary solution to this problem. Soon you will all be able to transform into an asura, thanks to our newest invention – the Hologramo-Asurinatix. Our brightest researchers and technicians have been taking part in this project and, you may be sure of it, it will not fail!”
:)

AKA “reroll”?

Typical Asuran mentality, using enormous amount of technology and obtaining the same result a bit of common sense would add.XD

norn mesmer OP I can’t see anything with all those giant clones around

Solstice.1097:

norn mesmer OP I can’t see anything with all those giant clones around

At least the mesmer won’t see anything aswell. It makes harder for one player to outplay the other.

redslion.9675:

Solstice.1097:

norn mesmer OP I can’t see anything with all those giant clones around

At least the mesmer won’t see anything aswell. It makes harder for one player to outplay the other.

the mesmer is on my team. WTB option to make friendly AI translucent

this is ridiculous I have always relied on the animations… this also might explain why with my massive norn ele, I don’t always hit foes even though they appear to by in the animation.

DougTheSlug.3920:

this is ridiculous I have always relied on the animations… this also might explain why with my massive norn ele, I don’t always hit foes even though they appear to by in the animation.

The hitbox is the same so that is not the case if anything it looks like you are not hitting anything when you fight a asura but you are doing damage. If anything I would blame that on lag. You may want to test it out on the Norn the same way the OP did however.

The main problem that is being brought to attention is avoiding damage. If the AOE circles were the right size relevant to the actual range then this would not be so big of a problem. However according to this post not even the AOE circles show correctly.

I don’t think for most animation effects normalizing them would be that big of a issue visually. The only problem I see is with malie.

This is crazy. Anet I love you but man….
In GW1 a Ranger or Mesmer could interrupt a tiny human monks WoH because we had cast bars.
We need cast bars in GW2. We also need an option to normalize character models. Make Asuras look like humans on your screen, because to be frank I don’t like playing a game with rats all over it.

Can we also mention the much bigger problem of fov and zoom? We know that both the camera can be put in a no object clip mode (aka going with the rules of every game ever of “whats behind the camera doesnt exist, unless its a mob, till you touch it”) and that you can both change the zoom and fov to very high without any performance drops or texture tiling, fisheye only happening if you go over 115 fov (not happening at all on widescreen monitors) and the bloody art still looking as amazing as ever (actually better because you dont see the plethora of low rez textures which they love to use as half transparent overlays on objects in the world).

GW2 needs a basic PC game patch just as its “endgame” needed the wardrobe.
Or allow modding of such options.

An option where people can see players like human standard models should fix this issue.

Andele.1306:

Can we also mention the much bigger problem of fov and zoom? We know that both the camera can be put in a no object clip mode (aka going with the rules of every game ever of “whats behind the camera doesnt exist, unless its a mob, till you touch it”) and that you can both change the zoom and fov to very high without any performance drops or texture tiling, fisheye only happening if you go over 115 fov (not happening at all on widescreen monitors) and the bloody art still looking as amazing as ever (actually better because you dont see the plethora of low rez textures which they love to use as half transparent overlays on objects in the world).

GW2 needs a basic PC game patch just as its “endgame” needed the wardrobe.
Or allow modding of such options.

Anet has already replied about the fov being what it is. They basically said it’s for artistic purposes and combat. Not that I agree with them. So there is nothing to fix

There have been countless posts about asura issues in pvp with hundreds of replies since the beta. Not one thing has ever been said or done about it. One of the reasons why I stopped expecting pvp in this game to ever be even half decent.

Too many visual effects do not match collision boxes, and too many do not match the model’s size when they should.

1. They need to make changes to the engine so models can have some variable set with something like a resize ratio telling the engine how much effect size must be changed in relation to them, so those that must match the model like shields and auras always do (with some models the auras look tiny and inside their bodies instead around them, in some they look like huge domes around them too farm from the actual model).
2. And they must also give effects something like a “No resize” flag indicating if the effect must stay with a fixed size regardless of the model it’s linked to, like attacks such as Flame Jet, Dragon’s Breath, Flame Burst, Wail of Doom, Locust Swarm or Hunter’s Call.

The first case is mostly a mere aesthetic problem with a few exceptions like some effect getting too small to see, or some getting too big and covering too much.
But the second one is in many cases also a balance issue. An in few cases a critical one.

You can’t have an action game and such huge mismatches between visuals and actual effects. You simply can’t.

vazor.2903:

This is one of the many many reasons why there need to be CAST BARS. Something I have wanted ever since launch.

Cast bars should be added too. Well, not bars. Icons over enemies with a border indicating casting progress, so you don’t have to select each target to see what they are casting in a zerg.

But that has nothing to do with this issue. Cast bar or not, a skill will hit you and look as if it didn’t, because of animations being scaled to a model instead sticking to a fixed size, when they should not.

Believe me, ArenaNet is 100% fully aware of these issues. Before GW2 was even open to the public, alpha testers were already bringing up potential issues with Asura-scaled visuals and animations. At the end of every test week, all the testers got together with devs in a Ventrilo and we had a discussion fully focused on nothing but PvP. The Asura-scaled animation issue was brought up every…single…week.

It’s not about whether the devs know or not. They know. Trust me.

This is concerning not only to the players, but to spectators, too. From on outside viewpoint, spectators only see tiny Asuras running around in circles waving shivs. It’s difficult for spectators to notice the intricacies of major plays going on, and therefore it’s difficult for spectators to be engaged. It’s a huge limiting factor for PvP growth.

zone.1073:

Believe me, ArenaNet is 100% fully aware of these issues. Before GW2 was even open to the public, alpha testers were already bringing up potential issues with Asura-scaled visuals and animations. At the end of every test week, all the testers got together with devs in a Ventrilo and we had a discussion fully focused on nothing but PvP. The Asura-scaled animation issue was brought up every…single…week.

It’s not about whether the devs know or not. They know. Trust me.

This is concerning not only to the players, but to spectators, too. From on outside viewpoint, spectators only see tiny Asuras running around in circles waving shivs. It’s difficult for spectators to notice the intricacies of major plays going on, and therefore it’s difficult for spectators to be engaged. It’s a huge limiting factor for PvP growth.

Yeah, they know, as another player reported in another thread

Dustfinger.9510:

Q: Many people that played PvP, including BOON Control members, said that asura characters have a slight advantage due to their small size and therefore reduced visibility compared to other races. Do you believe this is a problem? What about putting all asura player-characters in golems during PvP matches?

Eric: We don’t feel that this advantage is significant once people become more familiar with the game.

http://guildwars2.pl/about_lore_and_mechanics_with_eric_flannum_guildwarspl_exclusive,a545

in this forum

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/asura/Asura-Size-Please-NERF-US/first#post3918847

I want to link this because credit for this interesting information goes to him.

It might be that “We don’t feel this advantage is significant once people become more familiar with the game” in fact means: “We don’t care about this issue, if it is a problem everyone will just reroll asura and it won’t be an issue anymore”

http://i.imgur.com/Ejza285.jpg
kitten ..

xSenioritis.5910:

http://i.imgur.com/Ejza285.jpg
kitten ..

They are also the color of the ground…

kitten ! New strategy! At the beginning of a match, dye your asura armor with colors that resemble the ground colors of every map.

Asura necro in plague form.
Skill radius ring is decreased according to the size, the effects are not. -> Same in PvP; Enemies see a smaller red ring than the actual effect.

Edit: it’s not only for asuras, norns also have a bigger ring than humans… not sure which one is the real.

Ideally Branden,

The skill itself would not be expected to scale, because it’s the hitboxes that should remain static and equal in size across all races to preserve the equality of racial choice in combat.

If anything, the animations should just be a static size that seems reasonable for each race.

Not sure what work that would entail, but thank you sir for your recognition of the issue.

Branden Gee.2150:

Thanks for reporting this! This looks like a scaling issue where the effect is scaling the character’s size but the skill itself is not scaling. A fix for this will require some design work so I can’t say a whole lot in regards to when it could be fixed.

Hey Branden, is it technically possible to add an option where people can see everyone like a human standard model?

This option would resolve A LOT of problems.

Branden Gee.2150:

Thanks for reporting this! This looks like a scaling issue where the effect is scaling the character’s size but the skill itself is not scaling. A fix for this will require some design work so I can’t say a whole lot in regards to when it could be fixed.

While a respect this honest answer, I’m really concernd that we didn’t even get a "soon™ ".

Branden Gee.2150:

I wish I could say soon™. But this is a pretty interesting issue to address.

May I ask you to design the fix as a general tool to manage effects’ scaling? Aside from PvP, it is pretty kitten up on world bosses. Reducing the scaling with the size would help a lot, allowing to actually see the boss and read his attacks (Statue of Dwayna is the most blatant case).

And, um, I don’t really know how GW2’s servers work (it should be quite a messy code, judging by the amount of stuff that “accidentally” breaks with every patch; no offense intended), but wouldn’t adding a scaling modifier into what should like (var effectsDimensions) * (var scalingModifier) * ((var characterHeight)/(const normalHeight)) be pretty easy?

You don’t need a fix to this if you just implement the kitten cast bars. But you rather be stubborn about and make people wait half a year to fix an issue that has existed for more than a year and a half.

Feyrisu.9625:

I normally don’t agree with the “Asura Advantage” but this is pretty clear cut and needs addressing.

what is there to not agree with?
they have a clear advantage for everything except a mesmer that wants to spam clones.

even if you somehow tried to argue that their animations are no less harder to read than the other classes,
try predicting the animations of a 2ft tall midget standing inside a clump of minions.
or 1000+ range, you can still easily see what a norn is doing, at those ranges the asura is just a wiggly blob.