Automated Tournaments are not the answer

Automated Tournaments are not the answer

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

I’ve decided to play a couple of tournaments. I went in with PUGs straight to three first-round exits. I then realized that automated tournaments are not the answer like I thought they would be.

ATs are for established, organized 5-man teams ONLY. They’ve practiced and trained together. PUGs are strictly fodder. How do you even expect new PvP teams to form and take an interest if they’re getting tossed in the first round? How you expect PvP to prosper and have fun? New teams need competition on their level. Which brings me back to this. This is the same thing I and many others have been trying to put forth for years.

Bring back separate solo queue and 5v5 regardless of population.

If you want new teams to form so PvP can prosper, give them a reason to. Those decent, competitive players that left PvP? You’re not getting them back. They’re GONE. They’re already playing other games. Also:

Bring in 2v2, 3v3 TDM to unranked/ranked.

ANet, it’s time. Bring 2v2 TDM to queues already. You brought in 2v2 only for hotjoin? It’s already dead. Nobody is playing it. I’m tired of circle-dancing. At my latest tournament game I played, I see my teammates just STANDING AROUND. They’re not even trying to cap any points. One person DCd right in the middle of the game. It’s like nobody cares about capture points anymore. lol

In conclusion, ATs are not the answer like people say they are. Pro and established teams are just going to keep farming new competition. They won’t “rise up and adapt” as being theorized in the forums. They’ll just quit. The skill gap is too great. Monthly tournaments won’t do jack, either. Still, I support ATs. They should be kept. But they won’t save this game.

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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

Bring back separate solo queue and 5v5 regardless of population.

If you want new teams to form so PvP can prosper, give them a reason to. Those decent, competitive players that left PvP? You’re not getting them back. They’re GONE. They’re already playing other games. Also:

Bring in 2v2, 3v3 TDM to unranked/ranked.

ANet, it’s time. Bring 2v2 TDM to queues already.

Before any of that happens, can we have save-able build loadouts in PvP?

I’m envisioning a mixed queue for ranked/unranked including different modes. Switching every game for the best build can be an extreme hassle over the long term.

Regarding ATs, it’s a mode to placate people who look for hardcore 5-man premades. It’s doing its job well. We simply lack the population to give everyone a chance to win.

AT was definitely a great added feature. Now we may sound greedy, but having options for the more casual PvPers, like the ideas you mentioned, wouldn’t hurt.

5 useless class titles
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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

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Posted by: Huskyboy.1053

Huskyboy.1053

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

Just look at OP’s posting history and you’ll see a pattern. You’re right he’s wrong, ATs are fair and I enjoy them immensely. I’m in NA and mid-Plat, I basically play in Plat PUGs and we usually make semifinals no matter who I’m playing with.

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Posted by: Faux Play.6104

Faux Play.6104

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

He said that there should be separate 5 man and solo queue. To me there should be separate tournaments based on your pvp rank without decay. Have a bracket for bronze to silver 2, one for silver to gold3, and one for gold 3 to legend. Make the rewards scale with the bracket.

Having tournament where you have a chance to win makes sense. No sport throws novices and pros on the same bracket. People need to be challenged, and learn how to play as a team, but a bronze level team isn’t going to learn anything going up against a legendary team.

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Posted by: Huskyboy.1053

Huskyboy.1053

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

He said that there should be separate 5 man and solo queue. To me there should be separate tournaments based on your pvp rank without decay. Have a bracket for bronze to silver 2, one for silver to gold3, and one for gold 3 to legend. Make the rewards scale with the bracket.

Having tournament where you have a chance to win makes sense. No sport throws novices and pros on the same bracket. People need to be challenged, and learn how to play as a team, but a bronze level team isn’t going to learn anything going up against a legendary team.

Most sports have a much more limited number of teams selected by a small numbers of elites, so that’s not in any way an accurate comparison. Tennis, though not a team sport, is similar in that basically anyone can try to get into tournaments, which is how you get big surprises like Rafael Nadal winning Roland Garros at the age of 19.

I suppose you could have noob and “pro” tournaments, but really these low-level players should just be practicing their 5-man game more if they want to win. Not ask for easier opponents. True competitors ask for true competition. If you bring a level 10 bulbasaur to challenge the elite four, is it their bad for being so strong? Or should you maybe have evolved it to a Venusaur before challenging them?

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

Bring back separate solo queue and 5v5 regardless of population.

If you want new teams to form so PvP can prosper, give them a reason to. Those decent, competitive players that left PvP? You’re not getting them back. They’re GONE. They’re already playing other games. Also:

Bring in 2v2, 3v3 TDM to unranked/ranked.

ANet, it’s time. Bring 2v2 TDM to queues already.

Before any of that happens, can we have save-able build loadouts in PvP?

I’m envisioning a mixed queue for ranked/unranked including different modes. Switching every game for the best build can be an extreme hassle over the long term.

Regarding ATs, it’s a mode to placate people who look for hardcore 5-man premades. It’s doing its job well. We simply lack the population to give everyone a chance to win.

AT was definitely a great added feature. Now we may sound greedy, but having options for the more casual PvPers, like the ideas you mentioned, wouldn’t hurt.

Well, I’ll BE greedy then! Established and pro teams have their ATs. What do the rest of the PvP population have? An exploitable ranked queue?

We need PvP that serves the majority of players, that means separate queues of solo and 5v5. I don’t give a TOSS about the population. That’s just an excuse to not change things. Otherwise, we’ll be stuck in the same dam circle. Bad matchmaking = Low population = bad matchmaking = low population…

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

Why are you making it out like “pro players” have access to something regular players dont. AT’s are supposed to be the hardcore content newer players aspire to compete in. after watching a few they dont even seem like that though they just faceroll.

but thats a different problem that’s rewards currently the top players are burning through AT’s like crazy but as the hype fizzles away it will become easier for regular players to win at’s but dont expect to win in a PUG it even works that way with raids so i dont see what the complaint is

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

Why are you making it out like “pro players” have access to something regular players dont. AT’s are supposed to be the hardcore content newer players aspire to compete in. after watching a few they dont even seem like that though they just faceroll.

but thats a different problem that’s rewards currently the top players are burning through AT’s like crazy but as the hype fizzles away it will become easier for regular players to win at’s but dont expect to win in a PUG it even works that way with raids so i dont see what the complaint is

Because they do. It’s called skill.

As far as ATs being for hardcore teams? Fine by me. I just don’t think regular players should be left out in the cold. Regular players need to play with people on their skill level. They need a functioning queue.

A dose of reality. It’s going to take time for regular players to get good enough to compete and win. How long do you think they’ll be interested? Not everyone’s going to keep PUGing so they can be constantly eliminated in the first round. There’s going to be less and less people playing ATs. Before you know it, it’s going to be the same people playing.

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Posted by: Spoichiche.1290

Spoichiche.1290

So you go into an AT with complete randoms who don’t even play the game mode properly, get bullied in first round and come to complain that you can’t compete ?

I mean…. i mean, AT are supposed to be for established teams, they were always supposed to be for established teams to have a chance to compete against each other. If you want to compete in AT’s just make a pug with stricter requirement, play with people who are at your level, and if you still get bullied in first round, go train with those same people in unranked as a team. That’s what unranked is for, it’s a testing/training ground, you’re probably not gonna be matched against premades, but at least, the matchmaker will try to put you against players of your level.

A premade only queue will not be more fair than the ATs, the quality of the matchmaking is linked to the population. A super low population will result in a trash matchmaking, no matter what algorithme you’re using, it’s not a sollution to anything.

(edited by Spoichiche.1290)

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

basically he’s saying because higher skilled players finally get a channel that they can operate in, and its something that doesnt suit himself he is upset.

The majority of the gw2 community is really just a bucket of crabs isnt it? its really pathetic.

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: Faux Play.6104

Faux Play.6104

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

He said that there should be separate 5 man and solo queue. To me there should be separate tournaments based on your pvp rank without decay. Have a bracket for bronze to silver 2, one for silver to gold3, and one for gold 3 to legend. Make the rewards scale with the bracket.

Having tournament where you have a chance to win makes sense. No sport throws novices and pros on the same bracket. People need to be challenged, and learn how to play as a team, but a bronze level team isn’t going to learn anything going up against a legendary team.

Most sports have a much more limited number of teams selected by a small numbers of elites, so that’s not in any way an accurate comparison. Tennis, though not a team sport, is similar in that basically anyone can try to get into tournaments, which is how you get big surprises like Rafael Nadal winning Roland Garros at the age of 19.

I suppose you could have noob and “pro” tournaments, but really these low-level players should just be practicing their 5-man game more if they want to win. Not ask for easier opponents. True competitors ask for true competition. If you bring a level 10 bulbasaur to challenge the elite four, is it their bad for being so strong? Or should you maybe have evolved it to a Venusaur before challenging them?

Tennis has many levels of tournaments for different skill levels and age groups. You need a certain rank to even be considered for the draw at Roland Garros. The point isn’t to get rid of automated tournaments, it is to expand the number of people playing organized 5 man teams. Right now bronze/silver players aren’t going to learn much entering a tournament because they are just going to get a beat down. If they have a chance to compete with players of a similar skill level they will have more fun and potentially grow the community.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

He said that there should be separate 5 man and solo queue. To me there should be separate tournaments based on your pvp rank without decay. Have a bracket for bronze to silver 2, one for silver to gold3, and one for gold 3 to legend. Make the rewards scale with the bracket.

Having tournament where you have a chance to win makes sense. No sport throws novices and pros on the same bracket. People need to be challenged, and learn how to play as a team, but a bronze level team isn’t going to learn anything going up against a legendary team.

Most sports have a much more limited number of teams selected by a small numbers of elites, so that’s not in any way an accurate comparison. Tennis, though not a team sport, is similar in that basically anyone can try to get into tournaments, which is how you get big surprises like Rafael Nadal winning Roland Garros at the age of 19.

I suppose you could have noob and “pro” tournaments, but really these low-level players should just be practicing their 5-man game more if they want to win. Not ask for easier opponents. True competitors ask for true competition. If you bring a level 10 bulbasaur to challenge the elite four, is it their bad for being so strong? Or should you maybe have evolved it to a Venusaur before challenging them?

Tennis has many levels of tournaments for different skill levels and age groups. You need a certain rank to even be considered for the draw at Roland Garros. The point isn’t to get rid of automated tournaments, it is to expand the number of people playing organized 5 man teams. Right now bronze/silver players aren’t going to learn much entering a tournament because they are just going to get a beat down. If they have a chance to compete with players of a similar skill level they will have more fun and potentially grow the community.

Now this i LIKE!! its a good idea to have different AT’s based on the rank that you are in. many many competitive models outside of esports have this. however it might not work with the lack of players and could easily be exploited when you think about it with smurfs. “kitten it i got rekt in legend AT, time to tank rating and destroy everyone in the gold AT” NA would surely do this without a doubt. EU maybe not im not sure they seem more supportive of a pvp community

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: Faux Play.6104

Faux Play.6104

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

He said that there should be separate 5 man and solo queue. To me there should be separate tournaments based on your pvp rank without decay. Have a bracket for bronze to silver 2, one for silver to gold3, and one for gold 3 to legend. Make the rewards scale with the bracket.

Having tournament where you have a chance to win makes sense. No sport throws novices and pros on the same bracket. People need to be challenged, and learn how to play as a team, but a bronze level team isn’t going to learn anything going up against a legendary team.

Most sports have a much more limited number of teams selected by a small numbers of elites, so that’s not in any way an accurate comparison. Tennis, though not a team sport, is similar in that basically anyone can try to get into tournaments, which is how you get big surprises like Rafael Nadal winning Roland Garros at the age of 19.

I suppose you could have noob and “pro” tournaments, but really these low-level players should just be practicing their 5-man game more if they want to win. Not ask for easier opponents. True competitors ask for true competition. If you bring a level 10 bulbasaur to challenge the elite four, is it their bad for being so strong? Or should you maybe have evolved it to a Venusaur before challenging them?

Tennis has many levels of tournaments for different skill levels and age groups. You need a certain rank to even be considered for the draw at Roland Garros. The point isn’t to get rid of automated tournaments, it is to expand the number of people playing organized 5 man teams. Right now bronze/silver players aren’t going to learn much entering a tournament because they are just going to get a beat down. If they have a chance to compete with players of a similar skill level they will have more fun and potentially grow the community.

Now this i LIKE!! its a good idea to have different AT’s based on the rank that you are in. many many competitive models outside of esports have this. however it might not work with the lack of players and could easily be exploited when you think about it with smurfs. “kitten it i got rekt in legend AT, time to tank rating and destroy everyone in the gold AT” NA would surely do this without a doubt. EU maybe not im not sure they seem more supportive of a pvp community

I would overlap the divisions. So if the bottom tier was bronze to silver 2, then the middle tier would start at silver 1. That way people that were between tiers could either choose to play in the higher tier AT or the lower tier one. I would also address the rewards. The highest tier AT should give significant rewards, either exclusive skins, or valuable crafting items that are exclusive to the game mode. The lower tier ones could offer rewards that boost your MMR inside the division you are playing at.

(edited by Faux Play.6104)

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Posted by: duster.7013

duster.7013

1. You’re complaining about at while doing soloq
2. 5 stacks can practice in unranked.

Ats exist to give 5 mans a reason to exist without ruining ranked. 2 stacks are already op af in ranked. You should literally never be pugging AT.

(edited by duster.7013)

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

All this defensiveness lol. Seems I hit a nerve around here. You guys need to relax. I’m not trying to take away ATs, I support them. I’m just saying that they’re not going to grow like people say they are. They’re not the answer. You need queues. You need tdm.

Yes, I’m aware that I can’t pug my way to victory. But that’s beside the point. I used my own experience as an example. If ATs are all that the PvP community has to look forward to, we are in trouble.

You can’t really expect ATs alone to hold regular pvpers interest.

(edited by JTGuevara.9018)

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

So let me get this straight.

Automated tournaments which are literally pure 5on5 where you have plenty of time to set up a comp with your pug, sort out communications and then also time to prepare for enemy comp when match starts are all unfair.

What is fair is you getting 5 people in the same party and voice coms to face one duoq and 3 soloquers.

The reason this is fair is because you cant win an AT. If you get to make a premade and face soloqers you can win. Which is fair.

????????

He said that there should be separate 5 man and solo queue. To me there should be separate tournaments based on your pvp rank without decay. Have a bracket for bronze to silver 2, one for silver to gold3, and one for gold 3 to legend. Make the rewards scale with the bracket.

Having tournament where you have a chance to win makes sense. No sport throws novices and pros on the same bracket. People need to be challenged, and learn how to play as a team, but a bronze level team isn’t going to learn anything going up against a legendary team.

Most sports have a much more limited number of teams selected by a small numbers of elites, so that’s not in any way an accurate comparison. Tennis, though not a team sport, is similar in that basically anyone can try to get into tournaments, which is how you get big surprises like Rafael Nadal winning Roland Garros at the age of 19.

I suppose you could have noob and “pro” tournaments, but really these low-level players should just be practicing their 5-man game more if they want to win. Not ask for easier opponents. True competitors ask for true competition. If you bring a level 10 bulbasaur to challenge the elite four, is it their bad for being so strong? Or should you maybe have evolved it to a Venusaur before challenging them?

Tennis has many levels of tournaments for different skill levels and age groups. You need a certain rank to even be considered for the draw at Roland Garros. The point isn’t to get rid of automated tournaments, it is to expand the number of people playing organized 5 man teams. Right now bronze/silver players aren’t going to learn much entering a tournament because they are just going to get a beat down. If they have a chance to compete with players of a similar skill level they will have more fun and potentially grow the community.

I like the idea of many levels of tournaments. Hands down, the best way to implement it is MMR-based, like in unranked. That way, every player faces competition on their level.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

All this defensiveness lol. Seems I hit a nerve around here. You guys need to relax. I’m not trying to take away ATs, I support them. I’m just saying that they’re not going to grow like people say they are. They’re not the answer. You need queues. You need tdm.

Yes, I’m aware that I can’t pug my way to victory. But that’s beside the point. I used my own experience as an example. If ATs are all that the PvP community has to look forward to, we are in trouble.

You can’t really expect ATs alone to hold regular pvpers interest.

Nobody’s angry, they just think you’re wrong; dont dismiss peoples opinion just because they disagree with you. its infantile.

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

All this defensiveness lol. Seems I hit a nerve around here. You guys need to relax. I’m not trying to take away ATs, I support them. I’m just saying that they’re not going to grow like people say they are. They’re not the answer. You need queues. You need tdm.

Yes, I’m aware that I can’t pug my way to victory. But that’s beside the point. I used my own experience as an example. If ATs are all that the PvP community has to look forward to, we are in trouble.

You can’t really expect ATs alone to hold regular pvpers interest.

Nobody’s angry, they just think you’re wrong; dont dismiss peoples opinion just because they disagree with you. its infantile.

I have NOT dismissed anyone’s opinion just because they disagree with me. That is false. I just think I have a better argument.

I merely just questioned the narrative that ATs were going to usher in a new competitive scene. All these new teams were supposed to be chomping at the bit to compete. Obviously, it hasn’t happened.

Really? Nobody’s angry? Some seem to be in a bit of a tizzy over those mean old “casuals” trying to take their toys away. lol