Guild Wars 2

Fortus.6175:

Hi, I want to ask whats Anet stand on Backstab currently. While I understand that thieves dont have all that much going on for themselves when it comes to team support as we know it, Im wondering if Anet is really ok with thieves hitting anywhere from 8k-10k with a single ability that unlike most classes with such a strong hitting spell, this one lacks obvious animation, cannot be blocked and does not reveal the thief until it is dispensed.

Currently I believe that if the class is supposed to have that much damage, then I suggest we move that damage to other skills that require at least some kind of risk. Sure if you are a 20k hp warrior then 9k might not be all htat much to you, but if you are a valkiry/zerker guard, ele or mesmer than a 9k hit will take more than half your life ( 80% of your life if you are guard/ele) and thats every 4 seconds.

Please dont bring the “but thieves are squishy! spam all your long CDs in the hope that it might hit them”. It is not fun to be on the receiving end, it is not fun for any observer (I can assure you many people will close any stream if all you see if a thief one shooting anyone in any 1v1 scenario and disengaging any time their health drop a bit).

Let me put it into perspective to all thieves out there; imagine your 14k thief was hit every 4 seconds out of the blue with a 9k skill and there was absolutely nothing you could do about it.

tl;dr: I know most people wont even bother to read the whole thing and will comment only based on tittle, please if you are one of those refrain from posting, thanks

I remember my first BS too, but then I learned how to play, and would rock thieves. This is a L2P issue.

Try backstabbing an average player, you MIGHT hit him 50% of the time, and I am being generous.

If you are even slightly above average, I literally have to be on cooldowns, and immob’d to get hit with a BS.

L2play issue.

Zenith.7301:

Chicago Jack.5647:

Zenith.7301:

Doesn’t matter. In an open field without the worry of contesting points […]

Skill balance should not be dictated via WvW where everyone gets insane stat bonuses. L2P.

It’s not just WvW, fool. Watch Cruuk’s video and you’ll notice how cheesy it is, maintaining high defense and still critting 6k backstabs on high toughness specs.

And don’t even pretend like tpvp is any more balanced than WvW. At least in WvW staff elementalists and power necromancers exist.

Power necros exist in tpvp, and are starting to be more popular, and believe me, they are VERY, very strong.

My teammate is feared on his power necro – Jery E.

lold hard at OP. ROll a thief and learn a bit about the class my friend.

This game has probably the worst implementation of stealth and burst I’ve ever seen in an MMO. There’s literally no downside or counter play to stealth. It would be a lot more interesting and fun to play if the burden of skill wasn’t completely on the defending party, but hey some people just need a giant handicap to feel competitive I guess.

The animation is obvious because there is a very simple animation that thieves must do to get into stealth… then they have 3 seconds to hit u so… oh idk maybe try to dodge back or run a bit and u should be fine lol. at the same time… backstabs dont even hurt guards that much. its not like u cant turn around and hit the thief like a truck too

year ago people discuss same problem with thief..
yes, guys, year…
there is a no hope, that devs can understand now, what they unable understand all this time.
problem is no backstab, problem is unprecedentedly high pvp damage, extremely low TTK and of course, stealth.
so many people, my god, so many people talk about that and nothing changed.
i never seen, in all games history, such huge migration to another games.
sad

Lots of personal attacks at my name, I’m trying to have a civilized discussion about backstab (note how I tried to remain as civilized and constructive in my opening post) but instead I get called names. This is truly disgusting in any serious community and I will start reporting any thread that do another personal attack.

Look, all Im saying is;

High hitting abilities that cannot be blocked, cannot be seen, dont have any telegraphed move, that if played right can be delivered without the victim ever knowing you were there to begin with, should NOT have a 4 seconds CD and should NOT hit for over 80% of a person’s life If you cant understand that logic then I will start demanding said skills on all classes, see how that feels, because I find it pretty stupid that we have things like these in the game.

Sure there arent many thieves out there so it isnt much of a deal, but the fact remains that soon after we move away from the cond/bunker meta, these builds will wreck havoc to the point that will make them unbearable.

a t s e.9614:

But if the thief is so RIDICUKOUSLLYYYY OVERPOWWEEEFEDDD! Why I see 5 warriors in SoloQ ?? Please answer I really wanna know why nobody plays the most broken class of the game?

Nobody is saying thieves are brokenly OP, in fact, quite the contrary. If anything, the skill is brokenly OP. You people sure love exaggeration and love taking things to the extreme so that you can “disregard” them.

Yes, warriors are Op, on their own way. Yes, thieves are Op on their own way. Warriors have synergy. Thieves lack in team synergy and support, hence why thy are not prevalent. All I want is a fix for a broken skill, not a class.

If you are running a burst DPS guard, use mace 2 then 3 and just stand still.

Narcarsis.5739:

You’re asking why a glass cannon can hit you like a truck when you can turn around and do the same thing to them. As a guardian you can directly counter a thief with proper use of Blind, Aegis, Focus Shield, Invulnerability, Retaliation, Counter Pressure (Burst), Crowd Control (Pull, Immobilize), Large amounts of burning, AoE, etc. If I had to choose the most direct counter to my class it would be a DPS Guardian.

As for other classes such as Elementalists, Mesmers, etc. They put out more damage more often, along with providing more team utility.

If you’re complaining about backstab you’re playing poorly and deserve to die.

Cheers,

Caed

^^ this

Also, Caed it’s nice to see you man!

Anybody with MINIMAL pvp experience knows that these thieves with such DPS are a huge joke. It’s impossible for the a thief to come out of “no where” unless you are not paying attention . And you have a healing skill don’t you ? These thieves probably play a signet build to stack might and have nohief stunbreak. Heal+ mistform and CC the thief . And anyway I don’t care even thief gets removed from the game , I play warrior now and I have a great time facerolling nubs . They said they want warrior to be the strongest class of the game but not OP . So even if they nerf warrior a lil bit it will never have a huge nerf bat like a thief . So yea +1 to your suggestion , reduce backstab damage to 0 and then delete the class , I would be happy since there will less problem and arennet will have more time to create new gamemodes.

I agree. Backstab should do less damage because you can do it from stealth. For that reason and because you can do it often it should have a little nerf for balance the skill.

I know its very easy to misinterpret the sudden dip to 50% HP as a thief appears behind you, but there is a huge perceptive flaw in your argument.
First, you must realize that if you didn’t see the thief coming, by the time he/she opens on you they will have fully invested either 1-3 utility slots, their full pool if initiative, or up to 30 points in a trait line that does not directly affect damage (that is, traiting for init gain— which conveniently, is being nerfed in a month). A combined sacrifice from this list is made every single time a thief opens on you. They don’t just get to press their stealth button and wait around for a chance to strike, it takes work — more work than spamming your ‘about face’ key every time a thief is in the area. If they land the full backstab, despite the state of your feelings after they rip off a chunk of your HP, they deserved it.
And don’t kid yourself – this is a double-edged sword thieves run on; you should take a gander at the thief v thief duels available online. You will realize the finesse the top thief players must operate with to perform the deeds that sadden us so. Literally, you can watch thieves dance around each other for minutes on end not once dropping below 90%, and then a single flaw from one duelist and the match is won.
You think backstab is OP? Well I think you just ain’t on their level, Holmes.

Also: do you believe using all of your available utilities offensively should net you a significant chunk of an opponents resources? On your guardian, when a necro corrupts all of your boons and then spreads them to your entire team, with 2 simple button presses & nets over 50 000 damage, are his skills broken or is he just taking an opportunity he was granted?

here is the thing: if you want them to nerf backstab so badly, sure

but they would have to buff dmg somewhere else by huge margin and guess what? ppl will abuse it as well since big dmg is ONLY thing that thieves have (outside of moblity that is getting nerfed pretty bad next patch)

asking to nerf backstab is like asking to nerf guardians survivability…

eles and mesmers can do AOE damage stronger than backstab lol. warriors arcing arrow hits as hard as a backstab and is AOE the size of a point. Backstab is underpowered if anything.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Zenith.7301:

[…] maintaining high defense and still critting 6k backstabs on high toughness specs.

The only person who runs Cruuk’s build in tpvp is Cruuk. Stealth builds preform poorly in prolonged fights on points in spvp because they cannot contest them. In spvp, it is virtually impossible to one-shot backstab someone unless the thief is running a terrible build and their target is also light armor glass. For all your other concerns regarding backstab in spvp, this:

“You’re asking why a glass cannon can hit you like a truck when you can turn around and do the same thing to them. […] you can directly counter a thief with proper use of Blind, Aegis, Focus Shield, Invulnerability, Retaliation, Counter Pressure (Burst), Crowd Control (Pull, Immobilize), Large amounts of burning, AoE, etc. If I had to choose the most direct counter to my class it would be a DPS Guardian.

As for other classes such as Elementalists, Mesmers, etc. They put out more damage more often, along with providing more team utility. [L2P]" – Caed

What a stupid response. Aegis has a much larger cooldown than black powder>heartseeker stealth resets.

Pretty much every defensive cooldown is longer than it takes the thief to regen his offensive resources. The thief can reset at will.

Just wait till formats other than conquest pop up and see how suddenly stealth builds become appealing.

P.S. I don’t care about who only runs Cruuk’s build. The point is that it’s ridiculously easy to 1v1 people with it in some of the most frustrating fashions. You get so many do overs where other classes would have paid for their first mistake with death. Instead you get near melee immunity with the blind spam.

Backstab should have never existed. Shift the damage of backstab to a VISIBLE attack skill chain. Stealth skills should be utility skills like sword stealth or shortbow stealth.

You do not get stealth to give you both significant defensive and offensive benefits in a single package.

Fortus.6175:

High hitting abilities that cannot be blocked, cannot be seen, dont have any telegraphed move, that if played right can be delivered without the victim ever knowing you were there to begin with, should NOT have a 4 seconds CD and should NOT hit for over 80% of a person’s life If you cant understand that logic then I will start demanding said skills on all classes, see how that feels, because I find it pretty stupid that we have things like these in the game.

It is stupid to have such skills, and it used to be that way. What happened was, that people changed runes/amulet/traits, since if they didn’t they would be oneshot (or at least global ppl from 60/70% to 0%). It was boring, it was mindless and it took no skill and little to no setup even.

So many thieves replied with “l2p” until some of the better (best players in fact) started complaining (even recall streams, where they complained) … only then did some thieves admit it was slightly out of hand.
I lost my respect for the thief-community in that process. Had to be said.

However: It (BS) isn’t an issue, now we are all “adapted”. But we may want to ask ourselves, if it is right.

noobs use HS as “chain attack” and look, the same noobs asked for nerf to it too. basically thief has every single skill nerfhammered. dieing to a thief today means only a thing. everyone already explained.

Zenith.7301:

You are so all over the board right now, I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. We go from WvW, to spvp, to 1v1, to game modes that don’t exist. So go ahead and have your rage session. Take it out on me if you want, that’s fine. The answers are there, you just have to take advantage of them.

I think this is more a WvW issue. In spvp you don’t want to waste time perma stealthing and waiting for the right moment to strike. The damage is also much lower. In WvW however, you can sit in stealths with no consequences and as long as you please, then immeditately when the stealth wores off, swap to d/d and strike with the usual 20k+ mug, c&d and bs combo.

Master of Timespace.2548:

I think this is more a WvW issue. In spvp you don’t want to waste time perma stealthing and waiting for the right moment to strike. The damage is also much lower. In WvW however, you can sit in stealths with no consequences and as long as you please, then immeditately when the stealth wores off, swap to d/d and strike with the usual 20k+ mug, c&d and bs combo.

We know Anet doesnt care about balance outside sPvP, therefore you see classes such as ele which were relatively fine in PvE agetting gutted or perplexity runes or warriors or thieves……

In sPvP, D/X Thief balance is fine. In fact, I think it could use a slight buff with the amount of risk you take and skill required to compete at the top level. It is getting said slight buff in the next patch (more initiative regen), so we’ll see where it’s at then. As it stands, backstab is fine and balance as a whole is fine for that build.

Says the bunker guardian. Play something that isn’t bunker like a power spec ranger or engi and see how “balanced” D/P thieves are then.

10k backstabs, kitten you must be glassy as hell

Zenith.7301:

Says the bunker guardian. Play something that isn’t bunker like a power spec ranger or engi and see how “balanced” D/P thieves are then.

True, in 64 ranks of pvp I’ve never played any other classes or builds than bunker guardian. Voted most boring player NA 9 months in a row.

Google (ak) thief build can hit 15k backstabs. It isn’t hard. It does exist. It also has like 0 utility,0 survival. Builds exist for every purpose.

This is a team game and thieves who can output that damage are glass. It’s not that hard to know your matchups. If you have a difficulty doing a 1v1, don’t do it or pick a build/class that can. When a team fight occurs, and you know you are dealing with a glass thief, then always bait/wait for him before striking if you are also glass. You should be able to take him out just as easily as he takes you out but since stealth gives them an advantage, just don’t fight them upfront unless you have the sustain and/or other mechanics to deal with it.

You claim to want a civilised discussion, but it seemed to me you only wanted to push your opinion and try to get it accepted.

What Caed said really…

Thieves are fine PvP wise, there are a lot more hard hitting specs and cause more annoyance. You can have Power Control Engis, Shatter Mesmers, HamBow (gonna be nerfed) etc…

With D/P there is a setup time with BP/HS and you can try to predict their position. Nobody told you to give up and stand there for a backstab. Try rotating your camera or out-ranging the thief/make a predicted dodge by counting the seconds he’s in stealth. Just know the class you are up against.

The suggestions of L2P are because there are indeed things you can do to avoid Backstab. 9k Backstabs only happen if you are built fully glassy or up-levelled.
Especially as a Zerker Guardian, you can buy a lot of time with blocks, blinds and CC, and every hit with your weapon is brutal on the Thief. Trip Med Guards are a very strong counter.

Next patch there will be a decline in permastealth D/P, and we may see more 10/30/0/0/30 running around.

Amazes.5618:

10k backstabs, kitten you must be glassy as hell

Nah, he just isn’t a bunker.

Backstab should be balanced because you can do it from stealth. If you could see the thief and the skill animation i believe it would be fine. But thats not the case.

Fortus.6175:

Master of Timespace.2548:

I think this is more a WvW issue. In spvp you don’t want to waste time perma stealthing and waiting for the right moment to strike. The damage is also much lower. In WvW however, you can sit in stealths with no consequences and as long as you please, then immeditately when the stealth wores off, swap to d/d and strike with the usual 20k+ mug, c&d and bs combo.

We know Anet doesnt care about balance outside sPvP, therefore you see classes such as ele which were relatively fine in PvE agetting gutted or perplexity runes or warriors or thieves……

Unfortunate but true. Given that WvW is literally 10 times more popular than the flopped spvp, it’s strange that they can’t change their balance philosophies and priorities. I suspect it may be the so called sunk cost fallacy going on here, i.e. where you can’t let an idea go because so much resources have already been burned on it.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/at/sunk_cost_fallacy/

Narcarsis.5739:

You’re asking why a glass cannon can hit you like a truck when you can turn around and do the same thing to them.

no class can hit like that in the game. And all other classes you can see coming.

Narcarsis.5739:

As for other classes such as Elementalists, Mesmers, etc. They put out more damage more often, along with providing more team utility.

That is a patently false statement.

Just repop your aegis up with guardian and then shield 5…90% times that thief is sitting on the ground plain visible now (Their stealth goes away in seconds unless he was under shadow refuge, but if you see sr somewhere you must be ready for it, line of warding, dodges, hammer 5 and so on)…or if you run focus offhand your 5 is more than enough to screw their burst up not even moving a finger..

silentnight warrior.2714:

Backstab should be balanced because you can do it from stealth. If you could see the thief and the skill animation i believe it would be fine. But thats not the case.

Basically this.

People argue that scepter ele has more burst, but I would gladly give up all my cantrips in exchange for all the stealth thieves have. Setting up a one-hit killer without being able to be interrupted, seen or gotten out of? yes please!

I have never seen a RPG game where daggers were not able to 1shot people. If you dont want to rcv a big backstab, better to put some defense boy !

As a d/d thief I can die 50.000 times but that CRIT in the right time is more than enough to keep me satisfied… So good when the corpse is on the ground and the rage comes as a Pm…. Just love it…

Fortus.6175:

People argue that scepter ele has more burst…

It does have more burst, and is instantaneous damage. The amount of setup required for a thief to even get into the same general area as an ele is ridiculously obvious to the point that only the completely oblivious are able to get hit with it. It isn’t, by any means, stronger than an ele.

fodem.2713:

I have never seen a RPG game where daggers were not able to 1shot people. If you dont want to rcv a big backstab, better to put some defense boy !

As a d/d thief I can die 50.000 times but that CRIT in the right time is more than enough to keep me satisfied… So good when the corpse is on the ground and the rage comes as a Pm…. Just love it…

I live for that moment.

cymerdown.4103:

Zenith.7301:

Says the bunker guardian. Play something that isn’t bunker like a power spec ranger or engi and see how “balanced” D/P thieves are then.

True, in 64 ranks of pvp I’ve never played any other classes or builds than bunker guardian. Voted most boring player NA 9 months in a row.

And those classes and builds were obviously power ranger/necro/engineer, I bet.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Fortus.6175:

People argue that scepter ele has more burst…

It does have more burst, and is instantaneous damage. The amount of setup required for a thief to even get into the same general area as an ele is ridiculously obvious to the point that only the completely oblivious are able to get hit with it. It isn’t, by any means, stronger than an ele.

What a load of crap.

The only instantaneous skill you can’t dodge is their air skill which crits for about 3k.

Phoenix is telegraphed, every single attunement switch is telegraphed. Fire grab is not only telegraphed, but buggy as hell to land, and arcane missile is an obvious projectile.

You can backstab every 6-7 seconds. The cooldown on fire grab is 45 seconds. The cooldown on arcane missile is 20 seconds. The cooldown on arcane wave is 30. If he sits in air for lightning strike it’s a 5 sec cd, and all ele autoattacks suck.

The thief dagger auto and warrior auto can do so much more sustained damage in addition to the burst they do with a single skill.

Meanwhile the ele blows his 20+ sec cd burst sequence and then sits doing garbage sustained damage on anyone who didn’t die to the burst.

Fortus.6175:

Because unlike thieves, as a guard, most of them time you choose to engage, you remain there, and judge ntervention doesnt hit you for 80% of your health. Sure you can use focus 5 but if I see a guard running around with focus 5 on I will count and dodge for the definitely-coming judge focus combo, with a thief you never know. That is the difference.

If you’ve played the game enough you should be able to know how long it takes for a target to walk up to you without swiftness. You should also know that most thief stealth lasts about 3 seconds 10 if SR. So those two things coupled with the ability to count (which you’ve shown you can do) leaves me wondering why can you not count against a thief the same way you count against a zerker guard? I mean, you can’t say it’s not possible because it definitely is. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve blocked a backstab on ranger, I’ve even blocked backstabs out of shadow refuge 3s block vs 10s stealth. It’s not that hard to predict. I’ve even blocked backstabs as they are happening with GS 4. This is simply a l2p issue. That is a fact. Which you will undoubtedly argue against…

fodem.2713:

I have never seen a RPG game where daggers were not able to 1shot people. If you dont want to rcv a big backstab, better to put some defense boy !

Best. Argument. Ever.
…
Not.

Anyway, thief can hardly do that much damage in spvp. I run full burst thief quite often just to troll, but I have only so much success because most players are bunkers nowdays. And that crit isn’t so satisfying anymore because when it happens, you know it only worked because your opponent didn’t run a proper meta build, and was just someone trying to have fun on subpar build…

Eurantien.4632:

Fortus.6175:

Because unlike thieves, as a guard, most of them time you choose to engage, you remain there, and judge ntervention doesnt hit you for 80% of your health. Sure you can use focus 5 but if I see a guard running around with focus 5 on I will count and dodge for the definitely-coming judge focus combo, with a thief you never know. That is the difference.

If you’ve played the game enough you should be able to know how long it takes for a target to walk up to you without swiftness. You should also know that most thief stealth lasts about 3 seconds 10 if SR. So those two things coupled with the ability to count (which you’ve shown you can do) leaves me wondering why can you not count against a thief the same way you count against a zerker guard? I mean, you can’t say it’s not possible because it definitely is. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve blocked a backstab on ranger, I’ve even blocked backstabs out of shadow refuge 3s block vs 10s stealth. It’s not that hard to predict. I’ve even blocked backstabs as they are happening with GS 4. This is simply a l2p issue. That is a fact. Which you will undoubtedly argue against…

Because focus 5 goes off without random intervals. In those 1-3 seconds the thief can choose when to land the backstab. You also seem to be forgeting shadowstep signet and steal backstab combo, and because they’re stealthed you can’t even tell when they’ve arrived at your location.

And if that guardian focus 5 fails? He’s gotta wait for, oh, 40 seconds. The thief can repeat his crap far more often.

Moreover, while the guardian has to deal with guaranteed retaliation as he approaches, the thief can close distance without fear from getting whittled by ranged weapons (most ranged weapons need a target), and in melee the only option for most characters is autoattack as many skills require targeting.

You don’t seem to understand the difference between guesswork and actually being skilled by telling animations apart.

Zenith.7301:

Eurantien.4632:

Fortus.6175:

Because unlike thieves, as a guard, most of them time you choose to engage, you remain there, and judge ntervention doesnt hit you for 80% of your health. Sure you can use focus 5 but if I see a guard running around with focus 5 on I will count and dodge for the definitely-coming judge focus combo, with a thief you never know. That is the difference.

If you’ve played the game enough you should be able to know how long it takes for a target to walk up to you without swiftness. You should also know that most thief stealth lasts about 3 seconds 10 if SR. So those two things coupled with the ability to count (which you’ve shown you can do) leaves me wondering why can you not count against a thief the same way you count against a zerker guard? I mean, you can’t say it’s not possible because it definitely is. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve blocked a backstab on ranger, I’ve even blocked backstabs out of shadow refuge 3s block vs 10s stealth. It’s not that hard to predict. I’ve even blocked backstabs as they are happening with GS 4. This is simply a l2p issue. That is a fact. Which you will undoubtedly argue against…

Because focus 5 goes off without random intervals. In those 1-3 seconds the thief can choose when to land the backstab. You also seem to be forgeting shadowstep signet and steal backstab combo, and because they’re stealthed you can’t even tell when they’ve arrived at your location.

And if that guardian focus 5 fails? He’s gotta wait for, oh, 40 seconds. The thief can repeat his crap far more often.

Moreover, while the guardian has to deal with guaranteed retaliation as he approaches, the thief can close distance without fear from getting whittled by ranged weapons (most ranged weapons need a target), and in melee the only option for most characters is autoattack as many skills require targeting.

You don’t seem to understand the difference between guesswork and actually being skilled by telling animations apart.

Read what Eura is saying and read what you are saying again…

l2p (learn to predict, and learn to play)

Maybe you ought to pick up playing a thief for a while to truly understand the mentality of one.

Focus 5 lasts 4 seconds so against bad thieves you can just hit it. But if you wait till the last second then you can guarantee a block and they don’t have time to react to stop their backstab.

If you see a steal backstab combo occuring throw up the block. You will see that combo occuring. The only thing you can’t predict as easily is the infiltrator’s signet after stealth… but why would any sane thief waste a stunbreak to gap close when they can just walk up in stealth? They wouldn’t. Therefore, you can just know how long it takes for something to walk up to you and then activate focus 5.

If focus 5 fails, then you have things like staff line, or hammer line, or GS pull, or shield knockback, or mace block, or a dodge button in which case you can do all the same things to stop a backstab.

Moreover, while the thief won’t be perma-stealth approaching anything as that build is kitten in PvP the thief has to take guaranteed hits unless his steal is up but he has to save that for a backstab combo, while the guardian can just use judge’s intervention at any point in time to start DPSing an enemy and to close that gap. (as thieves are gonna have to wait till you get <50% before they use their ports).

You don’t seem to understand this is a l2p issue.

Edit: I’ll give that shadowshot can get them in closer but then you still know that they are there cause you just got blinded. Then you can do all the suggested stuff.

i beg someone high skilled thief playing D/D with no stealth utilities please

ofc make a video and share here to prove thief backstab opness

from all threads all i saw so far is this:
. thieves shouldn’t have stealth
- thieves shouldn’t do dmg from stealth
- thieves should be squishy
- thieves shouldn’t have moblity
- thieves shouldn’t have traits that help their survivability

honestly, do you guys even read what you write?

It still amazes me that this guy is complaining about thief. A two year old chimpanzee can smash his hands on his keys as a DPS guardian and kill any glass thief in the game. If he cannot then I have no words.

Cynz.9437:

from all threads all i saw so far is this:
. thieves shouldn’t have stealth
- thieves shouldn’t do dmg from stealth
- thieves should be squishy
- thieves shouldn’t have moblity
- thieves shouldn’t have traits that help their survivability

honestly, do you guys even read what you write?

Thieves shouldn’t have perma stealth.
Thieves shouldn’t do a lot of damage from stealth.
Thieves should be more durable.
thieve should not have cheap teleports.
Thieves should have to make a choice between mobility and stealth.

or stealth should have some type of counterplay and giving rangers a stupid skill on a long CD is not one of them.

silvermember.8941:

Cynz.9437:

from all threads all i saw so far is this:
. thieves shouldn’t have stealth
- thieves shouldn’t do dmg from stealth
- thieves should be squishy
- thieves shouldn’t have moblity
- thieves shouldn’t have traits that help their survivability

honestly, do you guys even read what you write?

Thieves shouldn’t have perma stealth.
Thieves shouldn’t do a lot of damage from stealth.
Thieves should be more durable.
thieve should not have cheap teleports.
Thieves should have to make a choice between mobility and stealth.

or stealth should have some type of counterplay and giving rangers a stupid skill on a long CD is not one of them.

This ^^