Guild Wars 2

Downed state in PvP… if anet keeps trying to keep this mechanic, they will not be a AAA title for PvP. Their PvE can be fine, but this was a bad decision and they appear to be doubling down on it instead of moving away from it.

There’s a dozen reasons why you’re wrong. I don’t know which to put here though, since you made a blanket statement with no justification or opinion attached.

evilapprentice.6379:

There’s a dozen reasons why you’re wrong. I don’t know which to put here though, since you made a blanket statement with no justification or opinion attached.

Not really. Downed state has no place in pvp, not to mention the various downed states between classes aren’t anywhere near balanced.

Downed state is an interesting mechanic. However, the implementation is just lousy. They are totally imbalanced plus stealth classes can use their mechanic to gain an additional advantage by killing downed people from stealth.

Downed state makes this a superior pvp game if anet gives up on this idea they will not be AAA for pvp they will be just like every other game out there. the decision to develop the game with this in mind was great and i am glad they are sticking with it than listening to people who are out played by a good team.

see what i did there?

Downed state is awesome. It affects strategy and more strategy is a good thing.

Donwed state has actually gotten a lot more balanced. Only issues left IMO are Thief and Mesmer requiring 3 stomp attempts for anyone who doesn’t have Haste, and Warrior’s vengeance which is counterintuitive to the whole mechanic.

other than that, it’s better than having to go back to bringing dedicated healers. /yawn

Just a couple bullet points

- Stealth stomping is less effective than stability stomping. Both are viable strategies with different strengths and weaknesses.
- There are “Save yourself” down states and “Save yourself and others” downstates. Thief, mes and now Ele are save yourself downstates. They’re unaffected by blind or stability, and can be used to reliably dodge a stomp. Engi/Guard/Warrior/Ranger/necro are save yourself and other downstates. They can be used to stop a stomp on themselves, a stomp on a teammate, or a revival on an enemy. Their increased versatility is countered by the stability/sometimes stealth/sometimes blind. They’re different but equal.
- Downstate is a counter to burst specs (which -everyone- is crying about). In a team oriented game (remember, this is a team game, not 5-8 players soloing 5-8 other players)a glass cannon doesn’t usually have the tools/utilities available to them to get the stomp off after they burn someone down. Thats part of the reason burst specs aren’t nearly as OP as everyone claims – because in TPvP you’re playing as a team, not a bunch of solo killers.

“Not really. Downed state has no place in pvp, not to mention the various downed states between classes aren’t anywhere near balanced.”

It absolutely does have a place in PvP. What doesn’t have a place is the different abilities players have while in that state.

Asmodean.5820:

Downed state is an interesting mechanic. However, the implementation is just lousy. They are totally imbalanced plus stealth classes can use their mechanic to gain an additional advantage by killing downed people from stealth.

I would assume that a AAA tier game would require a metagame that relies on an understanding of the other classes strength’s and weaknesses. It should be well known by now that if there is a downed opponent and a thief stealths next to him, he is going for the kill. Thief’s don’t get stability, and are not invulnerable when stealthed, so all you need to do is stun, fear, or knock him back. Chances are that he wont have enough health to try it again and risk getting downed himself, and the stealth will wear off before he recovers from the CC.

That’s what a AAA game is about isn’t it? Learning to deal with the advantages and disadvantages of your class/team in order to prevail? Or does AAA just mean that whoever fields the most OP class comp automatically wins.

I personally like the idea of dedicated healers and I love playing support, but I understand why a lot of people don’t appreciate it. This game understands that their base doesn’t want rigid roles, and nurtures a diverse and complex meta. If they took out downed, the tenacity of burst damage would make fights way too one sided, because everyone would go thief and whichever team got first blood would be up 1 man already in less than 5 secs of encountering the other team. The reason downed is there is to prevent burst from becoming the ubiquitous build. you may be able to burst them, but its all for nothing if you cant plant the stake before they mob you.

Personally, I don’t like downed state because it makes winning a 2v1 virtually impossible, even when you are good enough to outplay your opponents.

When you’re downed, you’re just a dying character struggling for it’s life.
I don’t see them as engineers, warriors or anything… just as struggling characters.

From this view, I would level out all downstate abilities:
give one ability to interrupt a single stomper immediatley.
Why just a single stomper? Becasue a just downed character sin’t supposed to survive against more than one.
Trick one yes, not many…

Than i would give a #3 ability on longer cooldown that interrupts all around.
This because if you live this long against more than one enemy around, it means you got help (since your #2 ability could only interrupt 1)
To reward you, and more your team mate, for holding it of this long, you get that aoe interrupt.

As for profession differences: make the animations different, but not the abilities.

Very important note: by no means i would equalise normal profession skills. But downstate I would yes.

this way it can remain the interesting mechanic it is, wihtout being the unbalanced mechanic it is as well.

The way I see it, downed is what keeps lone wolf “heroes” in their place. It takes skill to 1v2. It takes skill and strategy to finish them both. This game is built on team synergy, so if you want be the most effective, buddy up.

The AAA title is lost with the current questionable pvp class balance anyway.
But, first such a downed state is actually a cute idea for the first moment. Its something new and refreshing.
The problem I see is that certain classes have downed abilities which are just too powerfull. Take for example the situation where someone can actually revive but the other person not….why was this implemented.

My biggest gripe with the downed system is the reviving aspect of it. When you get for example a bunker build who is already way too hard to down, and you manage to down his partner, he will be able to sustain the damage you dump on him while he’s reviving, then will full heal up. In some cases, I downed the same enemy 3 times and just couldn’t do anything to finish him off because of reviving. When you manage to down an enemy before they manage to down one of your team, you outplayed them. When their bunker revives everyone multiple times, this is not about being outplayed at all. Everyone should have a baseline “interrupt reviving” ability at the least, or else just don’t allow reviving in combat, except maybe by yourself if everyone is ignoring you. Some builds actually need their CC to land a burst and down someone in the first place, then are left with nothing to interrupt revival.

Downed state is perfect, nuff said. They just need to fix some of them get rid of the bugs and its perfect.

I don’t think many that like it at first but after a while it grows on you. I’m used to it now but thief and mesmer abilities are still too annoying, and now even ele is too annoying (coming from an ele lol)

love downed state. wish thieves had just the blink and not a 2nd stealth, perhaps a caltrop throw for their #3

How is downed state perfect if one class can revive and play, but the other one cant….

Moxrox.2496:

How is downed state perfect if one class can revive and play, but the other one cant….

If you’re talking about Warrior’s 3, when they use that they have committed to dying and will drop dead in a few seconds.

I just wish the downed penalty from PvE was used. Get revived too often and too soon and you’re immediately dead next time you’re downed.

So i was more aiming towards the: downed states help make positioning of minimal importance in this game, make moderately skilled 2 man combos impossible for 1 person to beat, and are not in any way fun. No person involved in the stomping act thinks its fun. The downed player, stomper, rezer, and even interupter all feel like chores to play.

Its a really poopy mechanic that replaced a really good one (gw monk). How many people complained about having to play a healer? How many complain about stomping? 

The Warriors 3 skill will kill them unless they trait for it. If you trait for it, if you kill someone during your vengeance, you just stay alive. (which is perfectly fine for having to slot it)

Im inclined to agree with evilapprentice.6379 , there are different types of downed skills for a reason, each adds a layer of depth to combat and effectively counters the other. If you happen to not like your downed skill, play the other class. =P

heh.. where do you have any arguments to that statement?

heh.. where do you have any arguments to that statement?downed state is actually more than needed for the game to be AAA title. If you still didnt figured out how important it is.. then its just your problem.

heh.. where do you have any arguments to that statement?downed state is actually more than needed for the game to be AAA title. If you still didnt figured out how important it is.. then its just your problem.The only issue with the downed state right now is balance and thats it.

heh.. where do you have any arguments to that statement?downed state is actually more than needed for the game to be AAA title. If you still didnt figured out how important it is.. then its just your problem.The only issue with the downed state right now is balance and thats it.1) some of classess actaully do too much dmg in downed state (glascannon power builds mainly) while others like condition speced players suffer
2) some classes can prevent being stomped by their abilities. But 5 class could be negated by stability / blinds / distorsions / stealth stomps / quickness stomps while other 3 are totaly 100% not stompable at 1 try (well, sometimes quicknessstomps works). From this 3 Thief is actually the one who imho its better to kill by DMG if you power build. Because you will otherwise be interupted twice in row without chance of negating.

so.. just balance issue – nothing else. Downed state actually make your team think, when to stomp, what CD to save for stomps, its a part of strategy. Just get out of the mentality that someone should die in downed mode. No.. he still alive. Thats the trick.

Just don’t allow to rally by killing your target, only allow others (or yourself) reviving you.

GW2 has lost the status of an AAA title ever since… Well, ever since it was released and people saw what it really looks/plays like. I think you are a bit late with your conclusion.

The only MOMENT in time it had an AAA status was when ANet self-proclaimed it so, while hyping their broken product beyond imagination.

It can be an AAA pve mmo, aside from under water combat it seems fine there. This PvP is just not fun, or complex, or interesting.

Yes i inderstand the void that downed state fills, and that simply removing it isnt an option, it needs replacement. But it NEEDS replacement.

All players when downed should have the same skills.

This would remove 99.99% of the balance headaches and skill issues.

All players should have the same skills.

This would remove 100% of the balance headaches and skill issues.

PS: Downed state is fine – although some slight adjustments could become necessary , rally in its current form maybe not, you can still 1v2 (stealth, pets, sometimes stability…)

It absolutely does have a place in PvP. What doesn’t have a place is the different abilities players have while in that state.

I kind of agree here. I think downed state would be better if players just sat there for a certain amount of time (10-15 seconds) with the option to release. The abilities don’t really belong.

I also think that rally is ridiculously overpowered. It should be one rez for one stomp, not one stomp rezes everyone. Really I don’t think rally should be in the game at all, but if it is it should be 1 for 1.

I think the rally system is a bigger problem than the downed state itself as well. They really need to take a look at how many players can rally off of a single kill and the distance at which those rallies can occur – cause currently it can get kinda silly.

Downed state in sPvP = Epic fail

I was expecting this thread to be about their take on the stealth mechanic.

I am disappoint

I personally do not like the downed state mechanic. It’s just bad. However I realize that at this point it’s here to stay and I like the rest of the game so I’ll have to live with at least one bite of the kittenandwich.

All classes should have the same downed state abilities and all of the abilities should do the same damage. Furthermore the damage from downed state abilities should be reduced. A lot.

Abilities
One single target interrupt
One single target damage (okay damage)
One AoE (small damage)

The imbalance between the down state (as an ele) is frustrating as all hell.

Rally really needs to be reexamined as well.

I have to agree with the OP. Its fine in PvE and its fine mostly in WvW. However in S/TPvp it is just pretty poorly done and in 99% situations it just prolongs the inevitable – its useful in groups, its useless 1vs1 or any time you are out numbered.

Then you get on to how unbalanced each one is – Each Class should get -

Single Target interrupt
AoE Interrupt
Single Damage
Group Damage

Of course they can have different visuals but its stupid that the downed state is so unbalanced

Personally, I love the downed state. It does add a lot more to the game, and gives you an extra chance at making your team win. Being in a downed state on a point helps your team out a lot, and gives your team that little bit of extra time to come to your help and stop the enemy team from controlling the point. Don’t forget, you don’t have to stomp them to finish them. Attacking them is a perfectly viable choice to do.

The only issue I have about downed state in tpvp is the teams that leave people downed. It literally keeps one person out of the fight for a long time, plus the rally timer. Whats the point in getting 5 points when you can make it a 4v5 for some time and get more points by controlling 2 points? They should add a suicide button, in my opinion. Like a 5-10 sec CD that takes your own life instead of waiting to bleed out or get stomped. This way, if you try to rally yourself with bandage or with another skill and the enemy keeps denying it you can just suicide. Would make respawning to help your team that much easier instead of waiting the entire thing out. Thats my two copper, though. Many might disagree.

@Elloni – The downed state for ele is much more better than it was before. As an ele also, I welcome this change. To be honest, it’s a lot better than most downed states now since you can use vapor form to stop stomps and move to a safe location to be picked up by an ally. The damage in downed state is pretty noticeable too with 1 and 3 buff. Only issue I have with vapor form is that it still kills you when it runs out, instead of just putting you back in a downed state so you can look at the death recap.

@ArmageddonAsh – Each downed state brings something to the table, like a single target fear, aoe daze, a knockdown, cripple, a scorpion wire, e.t.c.. If they would make everything the same, it would be pretty kitten boring. The way it is now is very unique, but there is some tweaks that need to happen.

@ryston

it’s frightening to see someone with so much expertise and influence in the mmo market showing us the downfall of gw2…

@buttski

your name is buttski, yet we continued to read your opinin before deciding wether or not it had merit.

@Armageddonash… no I think downed state is awful for WvWvW, it gives another advantage to whomever brought more people to the fight. Downed state is pretty mediocre in what few dungeons I’ve experienced too. It’s really only ‘good’ during the leveling experience, which I’ll give it sure.

It’s just a bad idea, that’s okay they happen and hearing downed state described (and even trying it) I thought it had potential for a while. No way to know before you tried with this one. But we’ve tried, and it is a bad idea, and it’s well past time to admit that and come up with a better idea.