Guild Wars 2

If it’s OP, play it. If you’re not playing it, you’re not playing to win, and if you’re not playing to win, your opinion on competitive balance is meaningless. See sig.

Unless you’re commenting about how OP the class/comp you bring to tourneys is, your balance feedback holds no weight. If you truly wanted to be on an even playing field, you’d be playing the strongest class/comp you could put together.

Your feedback on whether things are ‘fun’ is still valuable, but don’t confuse ‘fun’ and ‘balance’. How fun you find the metagame has nothing to do with how balanced it is.

Vote with your feet if you want to be taken seriously. If you switch classes, have more success, and maintain that success for a few weeks, then come to the forum saying ‘my class needs a nerf’, that’s an opinion that matters.

If you’re getting ready for PAX and you’re still talking about professions that are not in your team needing a nerf, you’re fairly transparent.

So, I may be getting your logic wrong, but everyone should be picking up the flavor of the month highest tier class/comp and work from a top down approach nerfing classes but never buffing? I wonder how long it’d take for the warrior class to get a balance update then :S

You’re halfway right.

Necros are the best example right now, everyone knows they’re OP right? So play one. Do well. Win more than you do with your current class. Devs get real data showing that necro participation has tripled, and necro win/loss over all players is like 60/40.

That’s where you started going wrong though. If something is is overperforming but they feel nerfing is unwarranted, they can instead buff the counters to it. Or if warrior participation is down by two thirds because they’re all playing necros, both professions get looked at. Fastest way for warriors to get a balance update is for them to stop appearing in tournament play. Of course it still won’t be fast enough for the forum dwellers, but there it is.

By the way, I didn’t actually comment about asking for buffs to the profession you play, but your assumption is correct. It’s just as transparent, actually even more so.

My guild doesn’t play with a necro and is succesfull. Still I have the meaning necros are over the top now and need some tweaks. So I should stop saying necro is overpowered? I agree that many players come on the forums and call out for nerfs, because they don’t understand the mechanic behind some builds, therefore have problems with it.

But you need to consider both sides of the Balance-QQ, not only one.

@Arc: Good one there, even when warrior is not designed for this game, due to being melee.

If you think necro is overpowered, why isn’t your guild playing with one?

Oh the sadness.

Mammoth.1975:

If you think necro is overpowered, why isn’t your guild playing with one?

Because we play a counter-build. Besides that, A-Net allrdy said they will adjust the necro balance-wise.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mammoth.1975:

If you think necro is overpowered, why isn’t your guild playing with one?

Because we play a counter-build. Besides that, A-Net allrdy said they will adjust the necro balance-wise.

How OP is it if your comp beats it already?

Mammoth.1975:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mammoth.1975:

If you think necro is overpowered, why isn’t your guild playing with one?

Because we play a counter-build. Besides that, A-Net allrdy said they will adjust the necro balance-wise.

How OP is it if your comp beats it already?

As you don’t get the point I stop responding . . . thank you for another useless topic.

You’re the one missing the point unfortunately. You have a counter. You’re running the counter. The counter doesn’t involve using the profession against itself. That’s the metagame adapting to balance patches, while the forums continue to cry.

If your counter was ‘run moar necros’, that would be a balance problem, but it isn’t.

In my opinion, if every team needed a necro, that would be a balance problem too, but with every team having a guard since forever, I don’t think anet agrees with me about ‘required professions’ being a balance problem.

Mammoth.1975:

You’re the one missing the point unfortunately. You have a counter. You’re running the counter. The counter doesn’t involve using the profession against itself. That’s the metagame adapting to balance patches.

If your counter was ‘run moar necros’, that would be a balance problem. In my opinion, if every team needed a necro, that would be a balance problem too, but with every team having a guard since forever, I don’t think anet agrees with me about ‘required professions’ being a balance problem.

I think it’s kind of ridiculous to have to put in a counter build into a team comp in order to take down possible necros on the other team. While on the flip side, someone running a necro has a major advantage for everything else and doesn’t have to worry much about anything. Even given a counter-build you’d have to make sure that person is always focusing on the necro let alone being in the same spot with him. Throw in another necro and it’s even more fun to deal with (sarcasm). Fighting necros are okay, but their ability to single-target fear roflkill you is pretty stupid; I don’t think any other class except warrior has that easy of an access to cc to setup a lot of bursts while be effective in other areas (heavy condi). I wish my battering ram (which actually sucks) could reach 1200 distance to cc someone let alone my kick on warrior

Edit: But this is about balance not about necros. I think the best way to balance classes are test servers and feedback from experienced players in that testing realm.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Mammoth.1975:

You’re the one missing the point unfortunately. You have a counter. You’re running the counter. The counter doesn’t involve using the profession against itself. That’s the metagame adapting to balance patches.

If your counter was ‘run moar necros’, that would be a balance problem. In my opinion, if every team needed a necro, that would be a balance problem too, but with every team having a guard since forever, I don’t think anet agrees with me about ‘required professions’ being a balance problem.

I think it’s kind of ridiculous to have to put in a counter build into a team comp in order to take down possible necros on the other team. While on the flip side, someone running a necro has a major advantage for everything else and doesn’t have to worry much about anything. Even given a counter-build you’d have to make sure that person is always focusing on the necro let alone being in the same spot with him. Throw in another necro and it’s even more fun to deal with (sarcasm). Fighting necros are okay, but their ability to single-target fear roflkill you is pretty stupid; I don’t think any other class except warrior has that easy of an access to cc to setup a lot of bursts while be effective in other areas (heavy condi).

Thanks for sparing me some time. Our counter-setup relies on splitting out necros, however on some maps it is nearly impossible, especially against 2 necros. I don’t even wanna mention that every person can create a necro, play a day with it and will be on the same level of effectiveness than other players spended months on perfection of a class.

We faced TP in the last days, playing with 2 necros (xeph, azshene) and they won 500 – 400. Even when they had no clue how to play necro, they facerolled us due to 2 necros roaming everything down.

In general this means: counter-play works, but has many downsides to certain situations (in this case mostly teamfights and CC in general)

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Mammoth.1975:

You’re the one missing the point unfortunately. You have a counter. You’re running the counter. The counter doesn’t involve using the profession against itself. That’s the metagame adapting to balance patches.

If your counter was ‘run moar necros’, that would be a balance problem. In my opinion, if every team needed a necro, that would be a balance problem too, but with every team having a guard since forever, I don’t think anet agrees with me about ‘required professions’ being a balance problem.

I think it’s kind of ridiculous to have to put in a counter build into a team comp in order to take down possible necros on the other team. While on the flip side, someone running a necro has a major advantage for everything else and doesn’t have to worry much about anything. Even given a counter-build you’d have to make sure that person is always focusing on the necro let alone being in the same spot with him. Throw in another necro and it’s even more fun to deal with (sarcasm). Fighting necros are okay, but their ability to single-target fear roflkill you is pretty stupid; I don’t think any other class except warrior has that easy of an access to cc to setup a lot of bursts while be effective in other areas (heavy condi).

But the necro is being brought as a counterbuild in the first place, to kill the enemy guard. The game is all about bringing counters for what you expect to face. You know you’re facing at least one guy with good healing, 3k armor, and a bunch of blocks, knockbacks/wards, and reflects, so you bring a guy with ranged unreflectable conditions.

You know you’re facing a light armour guy with no stability and few stunbreaks on his bar, so you bring a guy to spike or cc chain him out. Etc etc. That’s how the metagame has worked forever. Until you see situations where the counter is bring more of x than the other guys because there is no real counter, there’s no issue.

Again, I personally think there actually is an issue when x class sees play in every team, or y class sees no play at all, but anet doesn’t seem to. Unless this latest condition buff was an effort to push guards down slightly from 99% representation.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vitality

Why do people keep linking vitality as if it somehow makes you not die to conditions? Oh no, I lived 3 seconds longer! YAY!

Cleansing is the only counter to conditions.

It gives the cushion you need to keep fighting. If you have both cleanse and Vitality then that 3 seconds you describe becomes 10. I think 10 seconds matter in this game. >.>

vitality works against conditions if you have enought healing power to help you restore it and… yes we dont have so… yes you gonna be killed… sorry :P

maybe a power/vit/healing new amulet? (and pls i want a power/prec/toughness too pls)

jmatb.6307:

It gives the cushion you need to keep fighting. If you have both cleanse and Vitality then that 3 seconds you describe becomes 10. I think 10 seconds matter in this game. >.>

The trade off for this cushion quite often is a decrease in your own offensive pressure.
As Necro’s gain more power over time because of 1) condition stacking via bleed/torment and 2) Death shroud accumulation. The weaker your offensive pressure the longer it takes for them to die, which 1 makes those conditions tick for longer, 2 gives them more time to defend themself.

With Spite being a power line as well, the power damage dealt is higher than base which often goes through unmitigated unless you’re running say Soldier ammy (which are nice), but just “Vitality” means nothing. Died more in Knight ammy than I would in a week with Berserkers. Pressure was way too long, battles last longer as a result, and Necro’s accumulated DS overtime a long battle with a necro is not what you want.

My response is to stun and immobilize the hell out of Necro’s with some condi removal. Won’t even let em fart. Why decrease my damage and the groups damage pro-longing a fight when we gotta kill two of these guys who’s class mechanic builds up over itme.