Guild Wars 2

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Wouldn’t be easier have less runes/sigils/amulets and 1 standard build for each class?

I know RPG are used to let the player choose what skills, equip, traits, etcetc…
… but wouldn’t be better if in pvp a player could only choose which class to play?

Balance should be way more easier, and ( reading pvp forum ) people complain about balance the most.

I think if they should choose between Balance and static classes or Less balance and the choice of pg, the first would be the most appreciate.

Also, people tend to follow metabattle and use the meta build they find, so would be the same as having all the same build.

of course meta would change every x months ( maybe from d/p thief to s/d thief, for an instance ).

Shortly, to me, the less choice, the better the SPvP.

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Just ensure that “faster paced” doesn’t result in spammy aoe/1-shot meta at the same time. Shave some of the active defenses from those who have too many (Chrono) and give them to some who need it more (Necromancer) and keep damage kind of similar and you will see less of those bunkers and more people dying.

Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

cele amulet should be nerfed, too many prof use it due to how good it is.

always liked zealot stats. if u can’t/don’t/won’t go full pow/heal/preci, consider making it one of th 4 split stats, pow/heal/prec/boon or pow/heal/prec/fero.

ronpierce.2760:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}

Well put.

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

What about Coalescence of Ruin doing 17k hits on a single target in WvW. Or around 30k damage on 3 targets on a 2 seconds cooldown. Don’t tell me you won’t be balancing this game-breaking skill/trait combo.

Also Chronomancer casting their elite twice is seriously unfair. And dual gravity well is just a huge cc aoe that lockdown anyone in the area for almost 10 sseconds, specially npcs in Stronghold.

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

The main problems with lethality are active defenses. A berserker amulet doesn’t do you much good when your hits don’t even connect. There are too many low cooldown blocks, blinds, dodges, and invulns (especially traited) flying around to even worry about the lethality of stat and item combinations.

Amulets, sigils, and runes are fine. We could use more of them in sPvP for more variety (bringing in PvE/WvW exclusive ones like Perplexity would be nice). If you want more lethality, you need to look at the real culprits of the bunker meta: active defenses.

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

This is a suggestion I’ve made before, and still think is a good idea.

Energy sigil: Grants 5-10s vigor instead of 50 endurance so it can’t be stacked with the high number of blocks and evades classes already have.

The instant hit on-swap sigils are also a problem. Like geo and hydro together or with leeching or doom. There is too much insta-cast already. Offensive skills should not be insta cast in my opinion, only the stun break effect on an offensive skill should be instant. Adding a delay and some sort of animation to show they have these damaging on swap sigils and that they are activated would provide some room for counter play. It’s frustrating to be trying to outplay someone with a stronger build or in a better position for the matchup, only to have them land geo+hydro or geo+doom on a weapon swap which you aren’t equipped to remove. Classes designed to be mobile and evasive as their defenses can’t deal with instant-cast. They are meant to rely on awareness and timing instead of chaining defensive skills like a revenant and hoping to avoid something important.

i got kinda dissapointed. Warrior part should have had 3x longer length than that. Lol

Has it ever been considered adding a toughness penetration stat to the most fragile amulets? Right now Zerk is completely overshadowed by Marauder, it wouldn’t hurt to give zerker and more glassy amulets a defined role as a bunker shredder.

Conditions (especially poison) were supposed to counter bunkers but with the new patch now bunkers have insane amounts of condi removal or outright prevention (diamond skin) removing any counterplay other than fight fire with fire (or stone with stone, rather) and this is the meta we have today.

Juba.8406:

I’m a bit skeptic about Warrior changes

Lol, I’m ready to bet money the adrenaline nerf won’t be removed :P

“Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.”

The weakness behind a balanced approach is you are inferior to the specialists in their areas of expertise. You attack better than defenders, defend better than attackers, but attackers whose offense assumes you’re a defender will shred you while the defenders anticipate an attacker onslaught and withstand you. I know it’s more complicated than that but in theory at least a balanced build’s strategy is to engage a specialist where they’re weak and avoid where they’re strong.

AegisFLCL.7623:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

Lol if they get rid of the celestial amulet they will break the elementalist. The class can’t sustain with any other amulet.

Josh Davis.6015:

Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.

Reposting my suggesting before regarding the fine tune between extreme bunkers and extreme burst

The meta from the June patch was the most fun/fast pace meta ever. After the xpac, we descended to a boring/slow bunker meta where people poke each other with Minstrel amulet. I’m glad they removed it. ANet really need to shift the meta to be more DPS oriented.

Tenets for a fun/not boring to watch games:

• 1v1 should never last more than 3 minutes
• 1v2 should never last for more than 1 minute
• 1v3 should die as soon as invul/block wear off.
• burst should never kill another class in less than 5s.

To achieve that we need:

• Sustain damage needs to be buff
• Burst damage keeps the same, or shave a bit for high bursts
• Sustain defense needs a nerf

That’s the general direction. How to work out the numbers is up to ANet. But I really wish they can shift PvP into a fun to play mode again.

A more DPS oriented meta will also place the focus higher on rotation and team movements, since you don’t want to be caught 1v2. Right now people don’t care much about rotation if they slap on a bunker build.

Josh Davis.6015:

ronpierce.2760:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Just ensure that “faster paced” doesn’t result in spammy aoe/1-shot meta at the same time. Shave some of the active defenses from those who have too many (Chrono) and give them to some who need it more (Necromancer) and keep damage kind of similar and you will see less of those bunkers and more people dying.

Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}

Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.

I hate to correct a developer right now because how great it is that a balance patch is coming sooner than later, but in this case I need to.

“There’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent CC is”
The less you hit your target, the less overall damage you are going to do. One of the biggest reasons why Revenant is so damage-strong isn’t entirely it’s damage but right now it’s the only class that can run into a hurricane and not be knocked around.

Some of the changes sound good on paper, however, what I find missing is (among other things) a reduction in scrapper sustain. There is a problem when a class running an offensive set of stats (marauder) can outbunker a bunker. Overall, I feel this will not address the power creep introduced with HoT – there is more damage being flung around, but there are also many more ways of bunkering down. Both sides need to be looked at in equal measure – and so far it reads to me like it’s mainly the defensive side being looked at (but only on certain classes? Why not across the board?). Most notably, the high amount of hard CC introduced with HoT is something that was not a consideration before – burning 2 stunbreaks and still being stunned/dazed … by one character, is perhaps a bit too much? (Main offenders: Dragonhunter, Druid)

About runes/sigils/amulets: I found PvP to be far more enjoyable and varied before the Celestial Amulet was a thing. It’s a no-brainer for certain builds and/or classes because the drawbacks of not specializing into one thing aren’t big enough. (Example: playing a Tempest/Ele? Run celestial amulet if you want your sustain and eat it too!). So I would propose giving it a very hard look at and perhaps further reducing the amount of stats it provides (personally, I’d like to see it fully removed, but that may not be the best thing). As someone who plays his elementalist a fair bit more than every other class, the celestial amulet has been a source of power like no other since it gives so many benefits at once – and the problem isn’t with the class, the problem is with the amulet here. If I had to choose between going for more damage or more sustain, that’d be an interesting choice – with the cele amulet, I can get a more than reasonable amount of both. I suspect there are other instances where this is also true.

Josh Davis.6015:

ronpierce.2760:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Just ensure that “faster paced” doesn’t result in spammy aoe/1-shot meta at the same time. Shave some of the active defenses from those who have too many (Chrono) and give them to some who need it more (Necromancer) and keep damage kind of similar and you will see less of those bunkers and more people dying.

Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}

Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.

Do you have base+scaling formulas or just scaling formulas for damage? I know condi is the former, idk if power is. Also, when is Thief getting bugfixed? Impairing Daggers still don’t trigger “Combo Finisher:Projectile” :c

ALSO: When will you show us details from runes/sigils? I rarely see Sigil of Paralyzation or Mesmer Runes for instance, Berserker doesn’t change power value (or condi I think)… I could make a list, But I’d love some attention on someone going through and checking text files to gameplay files Making sure they match.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Josh Davis.6015:

ronpierce.2760:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Just ensure that “faster paced” doesn’t result in spammy aoe/1-shot meta at the same time. Shave some of the active defenses from those who have too many (Chrono) and give them to some who need it more (Necromancer) and keep damage kind of similar and you will see less of those bunkers and more people dying.

Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}

Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.

I hate to correct a developer right now because how great it is that a balance patch is coming sooner than later, but in this case I need to.

“There’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent CC is”
The less you hit your target, the less overall damage you are going to do. One of the biggest reasons why Revenant is so damage-strong isn’t entirely it’s damage but right now it’s the only class that can run into a hurricane and not be knocked around.

Other classes have have better access to stability like ele (earth overload or overloads in general when traited), druid (utilities like strength of the pack), necro and even warrior. You need to dodge to activate the revenant stability and some downed skills like guardian down skill push back and activating stability is good to ensure an uninterrupted stomp instead of cleaving to death waiting for them to commit to the pushback so you can dodge it then stomp.

Josh Davis.6015:

ronpierce.2760:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

Just ensure that “faster paced” doesn’t result in spammy aoe/1-shot meta at the same time. Shave some of the active defenses from those who have too many (Chrono) and give them to some who need it more (Necromancer) and keep damage kind of similar and you will see less of those bunkers and more people dying.

Just be careful of over-correcting by “making bunkers less sustainable” and “making damage dealers do more damage” resulting in a hard swing in the other direction. Other than that, it sounds good. :}

Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.

You guys absolutely have to look into the elementalist Warhorn, conjures and elite skills, all of which are borderline useless. The elementalist community has been asking for good elites since the game was released (tornado should be a aoe cast skill, need an elite that recharges the attunements, FGS is only good for mobility, Ice Bow is now completly worthless) and nobody is using the warhorn.

Also the stability changes were bad for WvW and pvp. You need to bring back the old stability.

Our design for this profession tends to lean toward damage, mobility, and evasiveness. In the first quarter of this year, we’ll be looking to drastically improve thief melee autoattacks until their overall sustained damage

Thief has always a more of a get in, deal high damage, get out, or retreat to lose focus and then get back in, type of play style. Elite specs were meant to change play styles a bit, and I think that Daredevil was indeed designed to make thief move more toward sustained damage. So while a damage buff would be nice given the absurd damage mitigation stacking going on (although it doesn’t address the real problem there), it doesn’t really help thief provide sustained damage. The in-and-out style is due to the design of the class, not the strength of the auto attack.

If sustained damage is what the devs want for daredevil, thief needs stability to be able to not get stunned every 2 hits in a fight. I think it was a huge mistake to give the stability on dodge to revenant which has a ton of evades and blocks, and resistance already, instead of to thief which has fewer offensive evasion skills and no blocks save for one new utility skill that is out-shined by a lot of other options.

Thief also needs attention given to its profession skill. Thief - Steal. Yet, we don’t have much emphasis on stealing boons anymore. Larcenous strike got nerfed and bountiful theft is more for removing 2 boons since it doesn’t take or share the full stack. It’s often been said that it should share the full stack, but this seems to be ignored every time. A friend suggested that it should be changed to steal 5 boons instead so you are sure to get something still since not all boons stack like might, or an auto attack have a 50/50 chance to steal or remove a boon respectively, like mesmer’s sword removes one. Of course, improving bountiful theft can affect all builds while added boon theft to an auto attack affects only one weapon. Personally, I’d add it to dagger alongside the poison of the last hit, and restore larcenous strike to steal 2 boons.

Sunshine.5014:

Tenets for a fun/not boring to watch games:

• 1v1 should never last more than 3 minutes
• 1v2 should never last for more than 1 minute
• 1v3 should die as soon as invul/block wear off.
• burst should never kill another class in less than 5s.

To achieve that we need:

• Sustain damage needs to be buff
• Burst damage keeps the same, or shave a bit for high bursts
• Sustain defense needs a nerf

This should be your very basic design philosophy thou i would add that 1v1s should never last less than 45 seconds. If i wanted a game where everything would be decided on a single activation of my skills i would play League of Legends.

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

Lol if they get rid of the celestial amulet they will break the elementalist. The class can’t sustain with any other amulet.

Your statement proves that cele amulet is poor design, think about it. You say ele can only survive with one amulet. Any single class should not have to rely on one amulet to properly function in pvp.

Cele amulet is poor and lazy design no matter which way it is put. To the other poster trying to say that the “weakness” of cele amulet exists in not excelling in any specific area, why use the amulet in the first place. If the point of having several “unique” classes in a game to make it interesting, or allow their players a choice, why bring those classes closer and closer together with a unifying and muddled item?

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

I think one of the problems with the lack of lethality is because the game has too many active defenses that come at no meaningful cost or that are too easily available.

I think a cool direction to take the game to is to make active defenses rieskier, easier to counterplay or give them higher cooldowns, while buffing high-rish/ high-reward skill combos in the meantime (which aren’t always appropriately strong, like Dragon’s Tooth, and even when they are, there are too many one-key wonders to nullify them). This should make the game more exciting for both players and stream viewers, especially if said skill rotations are visually readable.

I’ll give an example. During HoT’s beta test, anet added evasion to revenant’s mist skills. This made the profession really strong at something that it wasn’t probably intended to be at and, as a consequence, damage had to be nerfed (sword #3 and staff #5). Did sword #3 really needed an evasion when they had off-hand sets dedicated to blocking? Did staff #5 really needed evasion when it already had a good, low-cooldown block and when the skill in question already had a very interesting niche (heavy cc+damage to enemies in line)?

All those “free” active defenses come at no strategical cost (you’re not exactly sacrificing your damage output in order to evade while using sword #3) and blur the main purpose of those skills.

For this specific case, I recommend two solutions: make us be able to cancel sword #3 (the main reason for why it received an evade) and switch pure evasion with a softer defensive mechanic (like, say, half damage reduction + plus cc immunity). You can then even have a trait that improves that soft defense mechanic, for those builds that need more defense. And then, just add back all the damage that was taken from some of those skills.

This is just one example, but I believe it applies to many other professions. Active defenses should be more precious and more strategical, not simply be handed freely to already-powerful skills.

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

You know another good way to balance conquest? Not having it be 95% reliant on standing in a circle at match start. Something on the sides to prevent the bunker issues

Even having it so it is a tug-o-war (no teams can capture or contest middle until their home point is completely captured, side nodes cannot be contested by an enemy unless center is owned by a team) would mean an afk bunker mes or druid couldn’t just run to a point at match start and stand there forever causing a stalemate for 15 minutes.

AegisFLCL.7623:

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

Lol if they get rid of the celestial amulet they will break the elementalist. The class can’t sustain with any other amulet.

Your statement proves that cele amulet is poor design, think about it. You say ele can only survive with one amulet. Any single class should not have to rely on one amulet to properly function in pvp.

Cele amulet is poor and lazy design no matter which way it is put. To the other poster trying to say that the “weakness” of cele amulet exists in not excelling in any specific area, why use the amulet in the first place. If the point of having several “unique” classes in a game to make it interesting, or allow their players a choice, why bring those classes closer and closer together with a unifying muddle item?

Well then they would need to completly rebalance and buff the elementalist class, so that it can use berserker amulet like it could on release. You need to realize that we are forced to use the celestial amulet because of the boon duration, toughness and hp we lost from the new trait system. As the squishiest class there is just no other option.

I’m watching this thread because the dev seems actively involved and is considering feedback.

Stay the course. I want that more than the balance patch.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

I think one of the problems with the lack of lethality is because the game has too many active defenses that come at no meaningful cost or that are too easily available.

I think a cool direction to take the game to is to make active defenses easier to counterplay or simply give them more cooldowns, while burring high-rish/ high-reward skill combos in the meantime (which aren’t always appropriately strong and, even when they are, there’s too many one-key wonders to nullify them).

I’ll give an example. During HoT’s beta test, anet added evasion to revenant’s mist skills. This made the profession really strong at something that it wasn’t probably intended to be what and, as a consequence, damage had to be nerfed (sword #3 and staff #5). Did sword #3 really needed an evasion when they have off-hand sets dedicated to blocking? Did staff #5 really needed evasion when it already has a good, low-cooldown block and when the skill in question already had a very itneresting niche (heavy cc+damage to enemies in line)?

All those “free” active defenses come at no strategical cost (you’re not exactly sacrificing your damage output in order to evade while using sword #3) and blur the main purpose of those skills.

For this specific case, I recommend two solutions: make us be able to cancel sword #3 (the main reason for why it received an evade) and switch pure evasion with a softer defensive mechanic (like, say, half damage reduction + plus cc immunity). You can then even have a trait that improves that soft defense mechanic, for those builds that need more defense. And then, just add back all the damage that was taken from some of those skills.

This is just one example, but I believe it applies to many other professions. Active defenses should be more precious and more strategical, not simply be handed freely to already-powerful skills.

No no no, we have already had the blow you up meta and it sucked just as much as the tank you meta. What we need is a more LINEAR meta, less sustain AND less spike and more dps.

I feel like balancing was done for open-world PvE and raids. A lot of these changes are honestly almost pointless in intent.

I see no changes being made to fundamental issues plaguing classes or any effort for what are frankly necessary substantial reworks to many classes, weapons, and traits. QoL is good… if the things you’re working on are only under-performing by small power margins and the issue stems more from usability. This is not at all the case in the PvP formats. Blatant overpowering of some mechanics and poor design decisions are what stemmed this.

Right now the game is CC and invuln effects paired with wildly overtuned damage coefficients on weapon skills with a huge push for boons and boon sharing. They’re too common. Nerf break bars if you have to nerf CC. Put the damage into skillful execution of a class being truly built for damage. Put the durability into people actually building for it. Remove passive defenses. Remove half or more of the invuln and block effects from the game.

Everyone’s just sitting around immune to everything getting infinitely CC-locked and you wonder why PvP is boring to watch and play. On the flipside, you have tanks one-shotting people in WvW from overtuned damage values like giving the scrapper better damage than backstab on skills 3 through 5, or CoR wiping entire parties for 12-18k on an AOE against tankier players with a 2s cooldown.

I see very little changing for the sPvP scene and absolutely nothing changing for WvW. PvE players will cry about their hybrid condi longbow ranger not being optimal for DPS in raids or something, and then we’ll probably see that getting buffed three months from now.

These changes are too slow and too insubstantial if this is all we’re seeing, and the design intent is far removed from what’s actually causing problems in the game.

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

There also needs to be more of a trade-off in pvp. If you go for straight damage there penalty should be less survivable. If you go for survival you should lose damage. Going condition, I’m not sure about. I’m thinking it should be treated like damage.

Passives need to be looked at. Having so many traits proc passives doesn’t promote skillful play.

Mysticjedi.6053:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

I would like to see this, amulet having something like 300 stats points you can move around.

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

Lol if they get rid of the celestial amulet they will break the elementalist. The class can’t sustain with any other amulet.

Your statement proves that cele amulet is poor design, think about it. You say ele can only survive with one amulet. Any single class should not have to rely on one amulet to properly function in pvp.

Cele amulet is poor and lazy design no matter which way it is put. To the other poster trying to say that the “weakness” of cele amulet exists in not excelling in any specific area, why use the amulet in the first place. If the point of having several “unique” classes in a game to make it interesting, or allow their players a choice, why bring those classes closer and closer together with a unifying muddle item?

Well then they would need to completly rebalance and buff the elementalist class, so that it can use berserker amulet like it could on release. You need to realize that we are forced to use the celestial amulet because of the boon duration, toughness and hp we lost from the new trait system. As the squishiest class there is just no other option.

Warrior and Thief would like a word with you.

Also, the balance team should be forced to look at an elementalists sustain with the removal of cele amulet. The game should not be balanced by looking at one class’ reliance on a singular amulet to function in pvp. I have two words, and two words only, poor design.

Not that I’ve played my ele during the current meta because I find tempest boring and incredibly overpowered, but during some of the previous metas I had a lot of fun and good success with marauder fresh air builds with s/d.

Again, the play-style and success of any class should not rely on a SINGULAR amulet.

and when will this be?

1) reaper chill nerf
2) condi transfer nerf. Time limit on transferred conditions for example
3) less cc for druid & Bristleback/Smokescale nerf
4) rev resistance nerf (currently you can keep almost perma resistance, or perma if you have ally) & some condi protection outside Mallyx
5) rev sword #3 less dmg & single target & faster. For rev – more predicted dmg(single target), for enemy – one dodge negate more damage.
6) pleeeeeease no more ‘pvp seasons’ and ‘pvp tournaments’ with out balance patch…

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

Lol if they get rid of the celestial amulet they will break the elementalist. The class can’t sustain with any other amulet.

Your statement proves that cele amulet is poor design, think about it. You say ele can only survive with one amulet. Any single class should not have to rely on one amulet to properly function in pvp.

Cele amulet is poor and lazy design no matter which way it is put. To the other poster trying to say that the “weakness” of cele amulet exists in not excelling in any specific area, why use the amulet in the first place. If the point of having several “unique” classes in a game to make it interesting, or allow their players a choice, why bring those classes closer and closer together with a unifying muddle item?

Well then they would need to completly rebalance and buff the elementalist class, so that it can use berserker amulet like it could on release. You need to realize that we are forced to use the celestial amulet because of the boon duration, toughness and hp we lost from the new trait system. As the squishiest class there is just no other option.

+1 I long for the day when Glass Staff Ele can have at least a slight chance vs Glass Rev/Thief/Guardian/Mesmer/Scrapper. At the moment any of those classes can kill a Glass Staff Ele in a few hits. You can’t even escape with all the chase/blink/chill from Rev and Thief. Hell, even a Warrior can win a glass staff Ele.

P.S. trivia, did you know that Staff Ele has lower damage coefficient than Scrapper despite their skills are slow and cannot hit any half decent player?

I know it’s already be done, but taking a look at runes could be of great sue to diversify usage. Durability runes are the big offender here ( flat boon duration is too strong, why isn’t it centered around one boon like Pack is ? )

But there’s also a lot of runes with interesting effect that just have bad flat stats on them.

Another point that came to mind and is very specific: if you make diamond skin a condition cleanse thing, the ele will have ridiculous amounts of condition cleansing readily available in the bunker builds (which will invariably use water/earth). It might perhaps be better to make it a short-duration resistance kind of trait? Like, gain resistance for 1s after being affected by a condition, ICD 5-10s? The Earth trait line flavor is, after all, all about mitigation, not cleansing (same holds true for most Earth-type skills).

Josh Davis.6015:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

More variety in stat combos can definitely be a thing – but I don’t think manual stat allocation is in the cards currently.

How about restricting sPvP amulets only to 3 & 4 stat combo’s? Now, your forcing players to “give up” something. Instead of allowing certain professions to strength across the board.

This will help “diversity” in sPvP builds without affecting the rest of the game (PvE, WvW.)

Josh Davis.6015:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Snip.

I’ve thought through the implications of removing cele from PvP and what would happen to elementalist quite a bit, actually. It’s pretty risky. I think elementalist would need a new 4 stat combo to be viable at roughly the same level (maybe something like 1050pow/1050condi/560vit/560healing).

Actually 1050 pow/1050 toughness/560 vit/560 healing.

SlimChance.6593:

Josh Davis.6015:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

More variety in stat combos can definitely be a thing – but I don’t think manual stat allocation is in the cards currently.

How about restricting sPvP amulets only to 3 & 4 stat combo’s? Now, your forcing players to “give up” something. Instead of allowing certain professions to strength across the board.

This will help “diversity” in sPvP builds without affecting the rest of the game (PvE, WvW.)

Nope, I think a big part of the issue if people could go all defensive stats. Just look at minstrel’s amulet, which was around for under a week before they had to remove it.

Josh Davis.6015:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

More variety in stat combos can definitely be a thing – but I don’t think manual stat allocation is in the cards currently.

Whatever balance you guys are doing, could you please try to make it in a manner to promote build diversity? Nobody want’s to be “forced” to play certain build for 3 months.

Some trait lines need more synergy together and with skills.
For example the fire line on the elementalist since it lost it’s synergy with both signets (auras on signets were removed) and cantrips (might on cantrips was removed). It has no good synergy with other trait lines except the fire auras with tempest. In comparison the Air line already has synergy with the water line thanks to Weak Spot and Piercing Shards (a 20% damage modifier). The quality of a build and therefore build variety relies on it’s full synergy potential. Just think about it at least.

Josh Davis.6015:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

More variety in stat combos can definitely be a thing – but I don’t think manual stat allocation is in the cards currently.

Why you wont let us mix stats like in pve/wvw? Anyway for stat combo i would like to see power/precision/ferocity/toughness. I also would like to see dire amulet to be added in so that you guys over there finally rebalance condition damage to require more than one stat to deal incredible damage.

Chingiz.6481:

1) reaper chill nerf…

This can’t be overstated enough. I’m a reaper main and I’ve been using the Deathly Chill trait, and it desperately needs a nerf. Chill is so easy to apply, it can be applied for very long durations, and the damage is equivalent is instantly stacking 5-6 bleeds, while at the same time reducing runspeed and increasing CD’s.

Josh Davis.6015:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Snip.

I’ve thought through the implications of removing cele from PvP and what would happen to elementalist quite a bit, actually. It’s pretty risky. I think elementalist would need a new 4 stat combo to be viable at roughly the same level (maybe something like 1050pow/1050condi/560vit/560healing).

Then you end up with no toughness on the squishiest class and would destroy build variety on that class, limiting it to earth and tempest for protection and water for cleanses.

Josh Davis.6015:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Snip.

I’ve thought through the implications of removing cele from PvP and what would happen to elementalist quite a bit, actually. It’s pretty risky. I think elementalist would need a new 4 stat combo to be viable at roughly the same level (maybe something like 1050pow/1050condi/560vit/560healing).

Why don’t you guys first look at normalizing health pools? With so many defensive traits available, for all professions, it no longer makes sense that someone with berserker is walking around with 11k health and someone else with 18-19k.

Burtnik.5218:

Josh Davis.6015:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

It would be nice to be able to customize our amulets instead of being stuck with static amulets. This would open more possibilities for players to make more unique builds. Allow for the amulets to be either 3 stat or 4 stat combos.

More variety in stat combos can definitely be a thing – but I don’t think manual stat allocation is in the cards currently.

Why you wont let us mix stats like in pve/wvw? Anyway for stat combo i would like to see power/precision/ferocity/toughness. I also would like to see dire amulet to be added in so that you guys over there finally rebalance condition damage to require more than one stat to deal incredible damage.

I actually suspect that a big part of the balancing issue they seem to constantly have is exactly that.
There is no way you can have 2 sets of stats for 2 game modes and 1 single set of skills and one mode not suffer because of it.

Josh Davis.6015:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Snip.

I’ve thought through the implications of removing cele from PvP and what would happen to elementalist quite a bit, actually. It’s pretty risky. I think elementalist would need a new 4 stat combo to be viable at roughly the same level (maybe something like 1050pow/1050condi/560vit/560healing).

This just seems like a recipe to make other unintentional (?) impacts, like making an Engineer/Scrapper stronger (?). It feels like the problem needs to be addressed at the class level, not the amulet level, if the issue is indeed with just one class underperforming due to the removal of an amulet.