Guild Wars 2

Hello! Hello! I’ve played guild wars for long time. Now I am playing guild wars 2 since release and what really kitten me is whine on forum. And the worst thing is balance whine. You will never have perfect balance it is impossible.

As far as i see the major part of guildwars 2 pvp community is ex-wow or such level and gear relevant even in pvp games. They speak about their class is underpowered , enemy class is overpowered, but none tries to out draft it with different class, none tries to out play it in strategy. All they do : I am elementalist/Mesmer/ranger/guardian/necro (instert any other class) I don’t want to roll another class at start of the match when I see opponent team comp, I will never roll another class and so on. But in fact you can out draft any enemy pick you have. You have 1:30 seconds to change classes before the game start. None forbid you to do it! This is game where you don’t need to level it. Stop whine about imba’s/op’s. Use your brain to cheese and counter it! With so many classes and builds and the opportunity to change your character “on fly” this is more build wars then guild wars 1 was.

If you don’t want to do it and think that I play 1 class and this class should be great against ANY enemy composition = you fool!
And A-Net instead of doing realy usefull things just try to fuzzy you with their balance patches, but whine will never stop because you can’t balance 8 classes with more than 50 total weapon sets.

The thing that is realy important for pvp and for new players : to fix useless weapon skills/utilities. When I first logged in gw2 I created a warrior with 2 swords with kick/stomp utilites. Because I realy liked the idea of skills and how they looked. Such a warrior fitted in my mind as a warrior(Conan barbarian and other swarznegger roles.) But what I got: skill 4 did 0 dmg, got canceled by 1 hit and didn’t do rly great benefit. Kick and stomp I rarely hit it and if I hitted It didn’t benefit at all to entire fight. And I felt a bit upset that I can’t use the skills I like even in hotjoins and etc.
To make game more friendly to new players of pvp you need to make all weapon skills works properly, and be realy usefull in any kind of fight.
Personaly I’ve made the list of weapon skills that need to be toned that i will adress in next topic.

And please stop trying to balance the things that works. Make the things that don’t work – available.
Nerfing working specs only push people out of the game.

While balancing classes now you have a big chance to break it completly.

i agree totaly with TRoopEr
there are so much weapon sets with useless skills…

and also so much useless traits which need a buff…

stop this nerf working builds into ground and buff not working things pls…

ah and thx for the nice 1vs1 tounrnament TRoopEr.
it was fun to play there and also fun to watch all your twitch videos after i have loose

cheers, silwyna darnus
the warcraft 3 looking Sylvana elf ranger, was nice comments, thx :P

Post was hard to read but agree.
Weapon sets should be primary balance concern over things like banners, kick and turrets.

The thing is, your post contradicts itself. People whine their class is under power or under power for these very same reasons. Warriors are underpower cause their condition build relays on 1 condition for damage, most of warrior utilities rarely hit, they are relatively useless and the only damage tool warriors have room em and in overall sucks.

Balance via numbers is is another thing, while many classes got far too many escape mechanisms, cc, Conditions and boons, other got kitten. Some pull numbers that are too high, example, today a Thief back stabbed me for 8.3k on my bunker ranger while I had protection on “-35% damage” and have close to 2.3k armor. That’s about 49% of my hp, right there in one hit that proceeded to a heart seeker spams for 2.5k a hit. Do the math, if I had no protection on and I was a glass cannon that would have almost one shot me, stealth gives little defense against you in pvp. Hence why people complain about thieves.

Now say it was the other way around and I was pwning the thief, he pulls his short bow out and teles over and over until he is the F. Away from me and happy safe and sound.

So on some cases mathematical values in damage are the problem, in other is like you state lack of imagination or real design in weapon skills. My ranger Sword #5 is a good example, the range is so gay I need to activate it almost standing over the enemy since an enemy running away from me will be too far for me to hit him…

So you are suggesting to reroll mesmer at the start of every match?
Fair enough.

sorrow.2364:

So you are suggesting to reroll mesmer at the start of every match?
Fair enough.

i am saying : why not to use brain instead of whining about OP classes.

You see enemy team have bunker ranger? Log on Power-pet master necro and shut-down this ranger.

I don’t like the way A-Net choose. There are so many not working-useless traits and weapon skills that nerfing working and good designed is ruining gameplay and build diversity at all. In beta we had good ranger’s GS. Now it is completly useless(unless bunker bm but 4-1-nders is still better). We had great axe on ranger – again nerf. We had good pistol on thief(but got nerfed projectile speed). But what you get when some1 got nerfed – nothing.

There was a good trait of warrior for while increased hammer dmg by 50% at cc’d targets. Hammer did so many dmg,but only if he had frenzy. Then they nerfed trait to 20%. It became ok, but after that they nerfed quickness to 50%. and the whole dmg combination felt don’t to 5% instead of 20%. Because you couldn’t execute combo.

Please give more love to weapon skills first > then utilites + traits.

And after that starts balancing what you’ve done.

I didnt see the link to Trooper’s ideas of balancing out professions, therefore:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/List-of-weapon-skills-that-need-to-be-tuned/first#post2142758

Well, its hard to disagree with Trooper.

@Lyonell, Thiefs cannot backstab you like that if u have protection up. Moreover this class is meant to kill within 2-2.5 secs you if u do not dodge properly or have no stunbreaks and running full berserk build.

TRoopEr.5364:

Please give more love to weapon skills first > then utilites + traits.

And after that starts balancing what you’ve done.

What about powercreep the current stats ? (increase the Vitality-Toughtness and the other stats in each amulets) ? (thiefs with berseker amulet = 20k HP)

a) U dont have to nerf everything . Keep the playerbase happy for now
b) U protect the new players for the time beeing , instead of throwing them in the lions
c) U give the developers time , to rethink about old specs that have been destroyed
d) temafights dont get a dps race

Killthehealersffs.8940:

TRoopEr.5364:

Please give more love to weapon skills first > then utilites + traits.

And after that starts balancing what you’ve done.

What about powercreep the current stats ? (increase the Vitality-Toughtness and the other stats in each amulets) ? (thiefs with berseker amulet = 20k HP)

a) U dont have to nerf everything . Keep the playerbase happy for now
b) U protect the new players for the time beeing , instead of throwing them in the lions
c) U give the developers time , to rethink about old specs that have been destroyed
d) temafights dont get a dps race

not a great idea. It will only make the bunker and condition meta be even more stronger and bursters like thief/warrior will be un available at all. You would die from retaliation/conditions before you do enough dmg.

Warriors will be unplayable whatever we do :P
But in they buff the Thief base damage as they intented , (150 bonus+ 650 noncrit mainhand =800 damage per 0.25 sec)
(6000 extra hp from the powercreep : 800 = almost need 8 hits
8 hits x 0.25 sec = need an extra 2 sec to kill the target .
Or more simply an extra heartseeker :P

8 extra hits x 210 retalation damage = 1680 damage

What would u choose ? :
a) reduce the Apex builds , and increase the minor builds , in order to have a balance and enought time to react in teamfights
b) Increase the minor specs by a bit . But humans beings will keep using the best builds , when money is in stake . And once more whine in the company that those buffs didnt do @@ in the meta .
c) Buff minor specs by a huge amount to see something new in meta (for example 4 kits Eninerr , to do more dps that the Grenades) and screw even more temafights
d) Try a soft format and recalculate old specs ?

@Trooper: first of all it is pretty hard to understand what do you mean. “Fixing Weapon Skills”<- are they not responsing or not working? Didn’t see that issue in game. If you mean that they should be redesign’d and rebalanced , then it is part of balancing. If you play all classes, then i have to agree that you aint carring for one class specifically. Still some of as are.
I know that perfect balance in this kind of game is very hard (still not so hard as in gw1), but it is still possible. Well atleast I would like to see, when every class would be need’d in tpvp.

emon.1863:

@Trooper: first of all it is pretty hard to understand what do you mean. “Fixing Weapon Skills”<- are they not responsing or not working? Didn’t see that issue in game. If you mean that they should be redesign’d and rebalanced , then it is part of balancing. If you play all classes, then i have to agree that you aint carring for one class specifically. Still some of as are.
I know that perfect balance in this kind of game is very hard (still not so hard as in gw1), but it is still possible. Well atleast I would like to see, when every class would be need’d in tpvp.

Not rebalance. Redesign – it is completly different.
Balance in the words that you mean – is nerfing/pumping abilities.

All people do now is crying for nerfed on “op” stuff. None crying about “up” stuff.

@if you think that it is immposible to carry on multiply classes then i am pitty for you,wow boy.

@Trooper, before you calling anyone “wow boy”, be sure that you are calling the right person. I never said that it is immposible to carry multi classes, I said that not everyone is doing it. Would be great if you readed text, before you reply =)

TRoopEr.5364:

i am saying : why not to use brain instead of whining about OP classes.

You see enemy team have bunker ranger? Log on Power-pet master necro and shut-down this ranger.

I don’t like the way A-Net choose. There are so many not working-useless traits and weapon skills that nerfing working and good designed is ruining gameplay and build diversity at all. In beta we had good ranger’s GS. Now it is completly useless(unless bunker bm but 4-1-nders is still better). We had great axe on ranger – again nerf. We had good pistol on thief(but got nerfed projectile speed). But what you get when some1 got nerfed – nothing.

There was a good trait of warrior for while increased hammer dmg by 50% at cc’d targets. Hammer did so many dmg,but only if he had frenzy. Then they nerfed trait to 20%. It became ok, but after that they nerfed quickness to 50%. and the whole dmg combination felt don’t to 5% instead of 20%. Because you couldn’t execute combo.

Please give more love to weapon skills first > then utilites + traits.

And after that starts balancing what you’ve done.

It is what’s happening now. That’s why we see so many Mesmers, Elementalist and BM rangers, because they are pretty much effective against everything.

What you’re doing is looking at GW2 as it is GW1. In GW1 every profession felt the same, so jumping from a profession to another changed almost nothing. All you had to learn was playing as melee, as support/pressure and healer, then you’ve lernt everything you need profession-wise in GW1 and you are able to play every profession as effective as another. The rest is only team coordination.
In GW2 every profession is different. Learning the Warrior doesn’t make you a good Guardian as well.
So, people puts efforts into learning one profession as good as they can and then try to use that profession in every circumstance. But what if the profession is completely useless and below average? Then the time you’ve spent learning that profession is wasted.

Yeah, they need to give some use to some traits, but balancing is as important as giving more alternatives.

“you can’t balance 8 classes with more than 50 total weapon sets.”

Why can’t you? Humans have proven thus far we are exceptionally good at doing a lot of things that were said to be impossible. This one line is total low hanging fruit to me. It is a defeatist attitude. I hope Anet does continue to seek out a flawless balance to their game. They spent years creating the game, now it just needs to be fine tuned.

East solution on paper..(Albeit it could take considerable time to input.)
1) Make a graph.
2) Have this graph list recognised positive/negative attributes a player can have in a PvP situation.
3) Place a measurable standard on each of these desirable/undesirable attributes.
4) Tier the measure. The higher/lower the attribute scores, the more desirable/undesirable it is.
5) measure each profession by this graph.
6) Set a mean statistical zone that ideally each class should have at least x value attributes in this range.
7) Run variable builds of a profession with different weapons through this process. (Much like the build editors and damage calculators that as you adjust runes, sigils and traits it updates itself to display what boons, conditions and damage that will be done. There is a number of these programmes already on the net that give data in seconds of variables being changed.)
8) the resulting data will show some classes spec’ed a certain way with certain weapons will score well above the mean aggregated zone. Look at what items etc were being used. Rebalance just those items and see how it affects other uses of that skill.
9) Some profession spec’s will score below the averaged mean zone. Look at those traits, weapon combinations. Rebalance those and see how they are affected in other uses.
10) Lastly set skill combinations etc to equal a set point of X value with a differential value of +/- that is fair and reasonable.

This will create classes that if they spec for speed movement and conditions, they will not have so many benefits in toughness or stun breaks, or builds that focus on stun protection, toughness and condition cleansing won’t perform optimally in consistent high damage and movement speed.

Resulting in, a player can choose how they wanna play and the only way their truly gonna get kitten is the other player has more experience and/or better skill usage..or simply put..they just out ran them because they choose not to be a run and gun style, but a defensive build or vise versa.

Each profession when traited whatever way and equipped whatever way will be equal to Value X or just below or above X value according to the +/- variable factor.

So in any given instance a thief with Value of 1 may face a guardian with value 0.7…but if the duel stays fluid the thief may have value 1.2 for brief moments, but if the duel slows down the guardian 0.7 value will increase in small windows while the thief very well may drop in brief windows. The true decider of the duel will be the person with the better skill uses..not just burst warrior caught glass canon thief with tiny HP pool off guard. That is nothing more than opportunity met perfect situation and not skill based.

First and foremost I am ex-GW1-player (prot-monk, shutdown mes or shutdown ranger … mainly these classes/aspects)

While I completely agree that fixes should occur first, I have no issues whatsoever with nerfs. I prefer fixes first and balancing after, but completely neglecting things that completely ruin everything in the name of fixing stuff first is being blind as well … imo.

That being said, I would be perfectly happy, if we had 2 truly viable (meaning on par with the best other classes can do) for each class. Balancing all weapons and traits … in all honesty I believe there are more pressing matters before that.