Guild Wars 2

Hey Anet,
When you bring in a rule into the Pro League that limits class stacking, it seems as though you know that classes are imbalanced. It seems as though you realize that there are only a few viable builds and thus you are preventing teams from using those builds more than once.

Rather than making a game where there are lots of viable builds, you’ve just tried to force variety by limiting class stacking. This doesn’t actually accomplish variety in gameplay. Nearly every pro team in the finals used the 3 most overpowered combat classes (necro, revenant, engineer) plus a healbot elementalist.

Surely you can see that unless you make proper changes, season 2 is just going to be another stale meta.

If you realize that classes are so imbalanced, why are you just releasing a “Minor Balance Tweak” on February 23rd?

Elite Specs will always outshine Vanilla Specs. [ Box Sales Rule #1]

That said, right now engineers are just plain crazy followed by necros (maybe) and revs. hybrid condi necros will be mid-high tier along with engis and revs.

I’m hoping for a balance patch on Feb 23rd but as Anet said before quarterly balance patch, i don’t think there will be a balance patch, sadly.

Given multiple different ways to do something, one of those ways will invariably be superior.

Balancing asynchronous classes is a impossibility.

And just to be curious OP, what do you want Anet to fix. And FYI, Anet won’t fix or tone down revs, even though they are Op I still can beat them with my warrior, but what exactly do you want them to fix or tweak?

@ Crinn, Well at some point, majority of the classes are decently balance, but now it’s half of the classes are OP and the other half is completely trash. As a player, i just want most classes are on the similar power level.

geekilo.8512:

@ Crinn, Well at some point, majority of the classes are decently balance, but now it’s half of the classes are OP and the other half is completely trash. As a player, i just want most classes are on the similar power level.

But that’s not possible. I belive that was crim’s point,no matter how you cut it some classes are always going to be OPer than others. It’s true in Lol, Dota , etc…

@Fivedawgs I totally get the part where 1 class might be more OP than the other, like pre- HOT, Cele-ele was the OP class, and necro was the UP class, and every other classes are in similar power level. After HOT, there was a huge power creep between classes, and im asking Anet to do something about it.

When people talk about balance in gw2, they aren’t talking about “perfect balance”. Saying you can’t achieve “perfect balance” isn’t very productive, nor is it very profound.

When classes are balanced in a game like gw2, it means that they perform at similar effectiveness to each other. Currently there are very obvious differences between the effectiveness of some classes compared to others.

Fivedawgs, regarding what needs to be changed, there are many posts on these forums which say specific things that need to be changed. I don’t think I need to post another list of necessary changes.

Generally speaking however; skills/traits which are performing too strongly need to be toned down a little. And skills/traits which are under performing need to be brought in-line with the stronger options. Having multiple options that perform to similar levels will promote build diversity.

velmeister.4187:

Elite Specs will always outshine Vanilla Specs. [ Box Sales Rule #1]

That said, right now engineers are just plain crazy followed by necros (maybe) and revs. hybrid condi necros will be mid-high tier along with engis and revs.

Box sales rule #1 seems to be short-term profit considering the outrageous number of people leaving the game or thinking about it.

Fivedawgs.4267:

geekilo.8512:

@ Crinn, Well at some point, majority of the classes are decently balance, but now it’s half of the classes are OP and the other half is completely trash. As a player, i just want most classes are on the similar power level.

But that’s not possible. I belive that was crim’s point,no matter how you cut it some classes are always going to be OPer than others. It’s true in Lol, Dota , etc…

Except in games that have more depth than gw2 is able to achieve (due to better balance), teams often make picks of “inferior” classes to fulfill very specific strategies, recognizing that it is worth the trade-off of raw overall power for the specific skills brought. For instance, bringing a mesmer nowadays so that you have portal to get relatively immobile heal-bot ele around the map could be effective over an objectively superior rev, druid, necro, or scrapper. However, too many classes really lack the whole “roles and holes” thing, with instead just a jumble of classes that are good at everything, then a bunch that do those same things but just worse.

Even if 100% balance is an impossibility, they can look at super unfavorable match ups and do more to even them out.

Yes this means less hard counter play which I personally don’t see as being a bad thing in a game type where you are not allowed to change or counter build on the fly mid match. (you know unlike LoL, to a degree starcraft, or upcoming Overwatch) Also the unfortunate possibility of power creep until the delicate balance is found.

But it mainly means you have less apex predators running around either being “virtually” unkillable, or bully everything else out of the meta. (sometimes we end up with both.)

Also A-net save yourself the trouble. Just make elite specs available for everyone in PvP, and balance around everyone having it. You either will make elite specs to weak and unfavorable, or to strong and broken. It still leaves the options open to not slot it (like as if putting a utility skill in an elite slot)

I understand everyone frustration, but the fact is it’s not that A-net can’t balance. It’s that they either are doing this stupid kitten intentionally to have some arbitrarily forced imperfect balance. OR they only have two or three person sitting at the helm making decisions who don’t understand context within their own game. OR they are only listening to select players who are bias and pushing their own agendas. Perhaps even some sort of terrible kittentail of all of the above… I dunno

At the end of the day they CAN find a mathematical balance that is close enough but they don’t devote enough to it.

That money for pro league should have gone towards making the game right.

anet have done more than drop the ball. they lost it.

you really expect good balance from a team who’s last patch actually reduced the amount of competitive classes? jog on buster, you the fool.

(Problematic) Class stacking is simply a result of powercreep. In the past usually even the most op builds had drawbacks and if a team would have stacked too many of those classes, their opponents could easily counter them by abusing those weaknesses. So even without any rules to prevent class stacking, most teams consisted of 4 or 5 different classes (an exception was the double ele/double engi composition from CM, which already showed, how dangerous – balancewise – strong “allround-builds” can be.
With the trait changes last year it was suddenly possible to take more and stronger traits than ever, which allowed to cover more weaknesses and create builds which could do basically everything – hello d/d cele ele …Even if other classes are only slightly weaker than the top class – which was imo the case pre HOT, theoretically every class was sort of viable – there is no reason to take them because … well, why would you take something weaker if the strongest class can already cover all your needs?

HOT just added more powercreep, therefore the problems remains/became even worse.

The best solution imo would be (more or less) heavy nerfs to basically everything. Creating equally strong-at-everything classes is not possible – but achieving more diversity through individual strengths, which should always come with certain trade-offs, should be possible – it was in the past.

But of course a rule to prevent stacking is a much easier way to pretend, balance and diversity are fine …

Strongly agreed with OP.

I expect other rules in the coming months, like forbidden traits or skills, restricted profession/amulet combo, anything to compensate for the complete lack of balance.

By the way, today is one of the 8 days anet discuss balance in a year. Morning is dedicated to watching season 1 finals. Afternoon is for analysis and, if time permits, some number tweaks. And please, don’t feed them bananas or peanuts, they need to concentrate.

What I expect:
- DH —> Increased trap damage and invulnerability duration (0 DH in finals).
- Druid —> Increased pet damage and immobilize on pet’s auto-attacks (1 druid out of 20 spots).
- Thief —> Increased staff damage coefficient, energy regeneration and mobility.
- Mesmer —> Halved CD on Signet of Humility.
- Warrior —> Bugfixed tooltips.

Crossing fingers

Ara.4569:

I expect other rules in the coming months, like forbidden traits or skills, restricted profession/amulet combo, anything to compensate for the complete lack of balance.

By the way, today is one of the 8 days anet discuss balance in a year. Morning is dedicated to watching season 1 finals. Afternoon is for analysis and, if time permits, some number tweaks. And please, don’t feed them bananas or peanuts, they need to concentrate.

What I expect:
- DH —> Increased trap damage and invulnerability duration (0 DH in finals).
- Druid --> Increased pet damage and immobilize on pet’s auto-attacks (1 druid out of 20 spots).
- Thief —> Increased staff damage coefficient, energy regeneration and mobility.
- Mesmer --> Halved CD on Signet of Humility.
- Warrior —> Bugfixed tooltips.

Crossing fingers

You’re kittening delusional, learn to read animations over l2p

edit:
send me your drugs;
I want to experience nirvana

Ara.4569:

I expect other rules in the coming months, like forbidden traits or skills, restricted profession/amulet combo, anything to compensate for the complete lack of balance.

By the way, today is one of the 8 days anet discuss balance in a year. Morning is dedicated to watching season 1 finals. Afternoon is for analysis and, if time permits, some number tweaks. And please, don’t feed them bananas or peanuts, they need to concentrate.

What I expect:
- DH —> Increased trap damage and invulnerability duration (0 DH in finals).
- Druid --> Increased pet damage and immobilize on pet’s auto-attacks (1 druid out of 20 spots).
- Thief —> Increased staff damage coefficient, energy regeneration and mobility.
- Mesmer --> Halved CD on Signet of Humility.
- Warrior —> Bugfixed tooltips.

Crossing fingers

Lol, this I exactly why I can’t take anyone who post on this forum seriously. Lmao at those suggestions, definitely a L2p issue.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

(Problematic)
With the trait changes last year it was suddenly possible to take more and stronger traits than ever, which allowed to cover more weaknesses and create builds which could do basically everything – hello d/d cele ele …Even if other classes are only slightly weaker than the top class – which was imo the case pre HOT, theoretically every class was sort of viable – there is no reason to take them because … well, why would you take something weaker if the strongest class can already cover all your needs?

HOT just added more powercreep, therefore the problems remains/became even worse.

The best solution imo would be (more or less) heavy nerfs to basically everything. Creating equally strong-at-everything classes is not possible – but achieving more diversity through individual strengths, which should always come with certain trade-offs, should be possible – it was in the past.

But of course a rule to prevent stacking is a much easier way to pretend, balance and diversity are fine …

So how is the current meta any different from what you have listed above? The way I see it, there are no strong at evrything classes and the classes themselves are pretty diverse. Let me break it down further, down below I will delineate the roles of each class and their respective tier:

1- DPS
In this category, we have Warrior ( my main), Revs, DH and thief. Revs are stronger than thieves which are stronger than warrior. Revs= GREAT tier .. DH= Upper strong tier …Thieves = Strong tier .. Warrior= Good tier. No matter what Anet does, the discrepancies between those three classes is always going to hold true.

2- Support/ Healers:
Under this category, we have druids, mesmers and eles … like I said again between those there, one is always going to be better than the other because they accomplish the same goals. So here again someone is going to be left out.

3- Tank/ Bruiser =
Engineer, and I can’t think of another class. Might as well insert Druids in here or Bunker guards. But engi do a better jobs at tanking, etc….

4- Condi
Warrior, Necro, Mesmer, Ranger (non-druids). Here again necros outperform anyone and No matter what Anet does; necros will always outshine every other class when it comes to cobdi.

My point being, the balance and the diversity are there. It just in each respective tier some classes outperform others.; and due to human psyche, they are bound to be taken 90% of the time. So it has nothing to do with balance, and I like to believe you d agree with me since you have mentioned rule against class stacking at the end of your post.

Not sure, if i get your point. Maybe we have just different opinions about what “balance” means.

Just a few notes:

1. Roles and “tiers” of classes are not set in stone, many classes can be used (at least theoretically) for multiple roles and most roles can be divided into “subroles”. Thief and guard for example – while both being able to fullfill a dps role as you have stated – are used for completely different reasons: mobility/decaps/+1 vs teamfighter/aoe dmg/point control.

2. If it is optimal to use a class multiple times in a team, while other classes see (almost) zero use, this is not what i would call “good balance” or class diversitiy.

3. We don’t know, how diverse pro teams would look without a class stacking rule (which already exists for quite a while). All you can see is a forced diversity, but not a diversity created by balance.

4. Yes, “perfect” balance is impossible. But you can and should try to come as close as possible. This is why i see balance more as a process and not as a (final) state of the game. And a rule against class stacking doesn’t benefit this process.

I don’t see why there is so much complaints about balance. When the is a ‘balance’ update I neither expect nor want balance, what I want is for the meta to be made more fun to play (it is really good right now). Let me put it this way: would you rather have every class perfectly balanced but have them all running unkillable bunker specs like in season one? I certainly wouldn’t. What I expect from the balance updates is that there will be a change up in the meta and that new classes will become powerful and others will become weaker, preferably the ones that were OP in the previous meta. In other words I think the way that the game is balanced is perfect because there is no way to achieve perfect balance, so why try? As long as there are maybe 5 or more powerful classes that can be played at pro league level I think they got it right as long as the meta is fun to play that should be the aim of Anet, but that is just my personal preference.

It’s a hotfix. ANet knows that this isn’t going to fix the problem in the long run or replace balancing.

Besides, I actually think teams will have looked exactly the same even without class stacking rules.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Ara.4569:

I expect other rules in the coming months, like forbidden traits or skills, restricted profession/amulet combo, anything to compensate for the complete lack of balance.

By the way, today is one of the 8 days anet discuss balance in a year. Morning is dedicated to watching season 1 finals. Afternoon is for analysis and, if time permits, some number tweaks. And please, don’t feed them bananas or peanuts, they need to concentrate.

What I expect:
- DH —> Increased trap damage and invulnerability duration (0 DH in finals).
- Druid --> Increased pet damage and immobilize on pet’s auto-attacks (1 druid out of 20 spots).
- Thief —> Increased staff damage coefficient, energy regeneration and mobility.
- Mesmer --> Halved CD on Signet of Humility.
- Warrior —> Bugfixed tooltips.

Crossing fingers

Lol, this I exactly why I can’t take anyone who post on this forum seriously. Lmao at those suggestions, definitely a L2p issue.

You probably shouldn’t be taking glaringly obvious sarcasm seriously, definitely a learn-to-read issue.

XGhoul.7426:

Ara.4569:

I expect other rules in the coming months, like forbidden traits or skills, restricted profession/amulet combo, anything to compensate for the complete lack of balance.

By the way, today is one of the 8 days anet discuss balance in a year. Morning is dedicated to watching season 1 finals. Afternoon is for analysis and, if time permits, some number tweaks. And please, don’t feed them bananas or peanuts, they need to concentrate.

What I expect:
- DH —> Increased trap damage and invulnerability duration (0 DH in finals).
- Druid --> Increased pet damage and immobilize on pet’s auto-attacks (1 druid out of 20 spots).
- Thief —> Increased staff damage coefficient, energy regeneration and mobility.
- Mesmer --> Halved CD on Signet of Humility.
- Warrior —> Bugfixed tooltips.

Crossing fingers

You’re kittening delusional, learn to read animations over l2p

edit:
send me your drugs;
I want to experience nirvana

See above.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Not sure, if i get your point. Maybe we have just different opinions about what “balance” means.

Just a few notes:

1. Roles and “tiers” of classes are not set in stone, many classes can be used (at least theoretically) for multiple roles and most roles can be divided into “subroles”. Thief and guard for example – while both being able to fullfill a dps role as you have stated – are used for completely different reasons: mobility/decaps/+1 vs teamfighter/aoe dmg/point control.

2. If it is optimal to use a class multiple times in a team, while other classes see (almost) zero use, this is not what i would call “good balance” or class diversitiy.

3. We don’t know, how diverse pro teams would look without a class stacking rule (which already exists for quite a while). All you can see is a forced diversity, but not a diversity created by balance.

4. Yes, “perfect” balance is impossible. But you can and should try to come as close as possible. This is why i see balance more as a process and not as a (final) state of the game. And a rule against class stacking doesn’t benefit this process.

Roles and classes are definitely set in stone in high elo. A bunker thieves is crap compared to a dps or decap thief; or a healer/support/bunker ele is more effective than a dps ele. Granted that some classes can hold two roles at alternately equal standing, most classes do not reciprocate. To sum it up, at least 90% of classes and roles are set in stone.

2- That’s not balance, that’s preference. We saw a mesmer at the tourney, Marvin ran mesmer because it prefer mesmer or druid or ele. Just like Vermillion ran druids instead of ele because the druids user prefer druids over ele. I.E. let’s say a new tabky/bruiser class was added, whom taknyness/ bruiserness was on par with engi. But the new class had 5% advantage over engi. Which class do you think chaith would chose?? The Great tier class = new added class or the Strong Tier class= engi?? I ll bet my money on engi because someone preference always override the balance. So I wouldn’t link preference to balance.

3- That’s what everyone has been doing, Lol, Dota, etc.. I have yet to see a game ( MOBA , SPVP MMO) where the balance solely fixed the game. Lol for example doesn’t elo mirror teams and also ban op champs in champion select.

4- I agree but Anet has to careful if they are evr going to implement class stacking b3cause we don’t have a large toon player nor a larger player pool to implement something like class stacking.

Fivedawgs.4267:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Not sure, if i get your point. Maybe we have just different opinions about what “balance” means.

Just a few notes:

1. Roles and “tiers” of classes are not set in stone, many classes can be used (at least theoretically) for multiple roles and most roles can be divided into “subroles”. Thief and guard for example – while both being able to fullfill a dps role as you have stated – are used for completely different reasons: mobility/decaps/+1 vs teamfighter/aoe dmg/point control.

2. If it is optimal to use a class multiple times in a team, while other classes see (almost) zero use, this is not what i would call “good balance” or class diversitiy.

3. We don’t know, how diverse pro teams would look without a class stacking rule (which already exists for quite a while). All you can see is a forced diversity, but not a diversity created by balance.

4. Yes, “perfect” balance is impossible. But you can and should try to come as close as possible. This is why i see balance more as a process and not as a (final) state of the game. And a rule against class stacking doesn’t benefit this process.

Roles and classes are definitely set in stone in high elo. A bunker thieves is crap compared to a dps or decap thief; or a healer/support/bunker ele is more effective than a dps ele. Granted that some classes can hold two roles at alternately equal standing, most classes do not reciprocate. To sum it up, at least 90% of classes and roles are set in stone.

2- That’s not balance, that’s preference. We saw a mesmer at the tourney, Marvin ran mesmer because it prefer mesmer or druid or ele. Just like Vermillion ran druids instead of ele because the druids user prefer druids over ele. I.E. let’s say a new tabky/bruiser class was added, whom taknyness/ bruiserness was on par with engi. But the new class had 5% advantage over engi. Which class do you think chaith would chose?? The Great tier class = new added class or the Strong Tier class= engi?? I ll bet my money on engi because someone preference always override the balance. So I wouldn’t link preference to balance.

3- That’s what everyone has been doing, Lol, Dota, etc.. I have yet to see a game ( MOBA , SPVP MMO) where the balance solely fixed the game. Lol for example doesn’t elo mirror teams and also ban op champs in champion select.

4- I agree but Anet has to careful if they are evr going to implement class stacking b3cause we don’t have a large toon player nor a larger player pool to implement something like class stacking.

Great job at a bunch of blind defenses of a-net. Everything is wonderful we got it. It’s too much to expect any kind of real class diversity yada yada yada. Nobody is asking for thief bunker although if A-net wanted that to be viable it could happen tommorrow. We want every class to have at least one viable build that can compete at a high level. And you are basically telling people that’s too much to ask for. That’s ridiculous.

Thief bunker was viable last season… I know folks who got to diamond with bunker condi thieves. They out sustained yoh with their evade while their condi slowly ate you. And I was just stating the fact. Facts are fact so..

You read me wrong there, I am not saying that’s too much, it’s just that you can’t have two classes on EQUAL STANDINGS. One is always going to be better than the other and preference also plays a huge role on what getting picked in ESL/tourney. For example last season, DH were better than thieves in every way expect decap ping ( which was kind of hard with bunker mesmer sitting on point) but toker still picked thief over DH when not on his revs. Logically, he would have been better of with a DH instead of a Thief since DH were better than thieves last season but he chosed a thief?? Why ?? Preference.

suffish.4150:

What I expect from the balance updates is that there will be a change up in the meta and that new classes will become powerful and others will become weaker, preferably the ones that were OP in the previous meta.

The problem is, that not everyone enjoys multiclassing, and it certainly isn’t fun to see your favourite class being close to unplayable for months or even longer, just because it was strong in the past.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Roles and classes are definitely set in stone in high elo. A bunker thieves is crap compared to a dps or decap thief; or a healer/support/bunker ele is more effective than a dps ele. Granted that some classes can hold two roles at alternately equal standing, most classes do not reciprocate. To sum it up, at least 90% of classes and roles are set in stone.

Uhm, maybe we are talking about different things here. If we only look at a certain (balance) state of the game – then yes, you are right. But the game can change (it did in the past and will so in the future). And so can classes and roles. Just take mesmer as example: It had always a similar role to thief (burst/DPS/mobility). With HOT it became the most op bunker the game had ever seen. Now it is mostly … useless?

Fivedawgs.4267:

2- That’s not balance, that’s preference. We saw a mesmer at the tourney, Marvin ran mesmer because it prefer mesmer or druid or ele. Just like Vermillion ran druids instead of ele because the druids user prefer druids over ele. I.E. […]

Some people will always play subpar builds. Does this mean, it doesn’t matter how strong or weak classes are? Because some players will play them anyways? It was pretty obvious that mesmer or druid weren’t as useful as rev/ele/engi/necro (And still better than some other classes).

On your engi example: If engi would be still good enough to compete at high level tier, then he would probably stick to it. But what if this is not the case? He can switch to an other class, keep loosing games because of weak engi (and get kicked from Abjured :p) or stop playing the game (i think, 1. option is most likely).

Do you really think, nobody plays warrior or thief, because nobody wants to play them? Do you really think, Misha played necro only because he suddenly prefered it over mesmer (which was his main for years, even when it was not meta – still good enough to be sucessfully played at top tier)?

Many player have switched from their main class to a different one – and i doubt, it is only because of personal preference.

Fivedawgs.4267:

4- I agree but Anet has to careful if they are evr going to implement class stacking b3cause we don’t have a large toon player nor a larger player pool to implement something like class stacking.

Uhm, class stacking isn’t something which has to be implemented. It is already in the game. We are talking about a rule AGAINST class stacking. Which currently only exists in tournaments and which wasn’t necessary in the past, because – even if balance was far from perfect – there were enough reasons to play different classes instead of stacking few.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

suffish.4150:

What I expect from the balance updates is that there will be a change up in the meta and that new classes will become powerful and others will become weaker, preferably the ones that were OP in the previous meta.

The problem is, that not everyone enjoys multiclassing, and it certainly isn’t fun to see your favourite class being close to unplayable for months or even longer, just because it was strong in the past.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Roles and classes are definitely set in stone in high elo. A bunker thieves is crap compared to a dps or decap thief; or a healer/support/bunker ele is more effective than a dps ele. Granted that some classes can hold two roles at alternately equal standing, most classes do not reciprocate. To sum it up, at least 90% of classes and roles are set in stone.

Uhm, maybe we are talking about different things here. If we only look at a certain (balance) state of the game – then yes, you are right. But the game can change (it did in the past and will so in the future). And so can classes and roles. Just take mesmer as example: It had always a similar role to thief (burst/DPS/mobility). With HOT it became the most op bunker the game had ever seen. Now it is mostly … useless?

Fivedawgs.4267:

2- That’s not balance, that’s preference. We saw a mesmer at the tourney, Marvin ran mesmer because it prefer mesmer or druid or ele. Just like Vermillion ran druids instead of ele because the druids user prefer druids over ele. I.E. […]

Some people will always play subpar builds. Does this mean, it doesn’t matter how strong or weak classes are? Because some players will play them anyways? It was pretty obvious that mesmer or druid weren’t as useful as rev/ele/engi/necro (And still better than some other classes).

On your engi example: If engi would be still good enough to compete at high level tier, then he would probably stick to it. But what if this is not the case? He can switch to an other class, keep loosing games because of weak engi (and get kicked from Abjured :p) or stop playing the game (i think, 1. option is most likely).

Do you really think, nobody plays warrior or thief, because nobody wants to play them? Do you really think, Misha played necro only because he suddenly prefered it over mesmer (which was his main for years, even when it was not meta – still good enough to be sucessfully played at top tier)?

Many player have switched from their main class to a different one – and i doubt, it is only because of personal preference.

Fivedawgs.4267:

4- I agree but Anet has to careful if they are evr going to implement class stacking b3cause we don’t have a large toon player nor a larger player pool to implement something like class stacking.

Uhm, class stacking isn’t something which has to be implemented. It is already in the game. We are talking about a rule AGAINST class stacking. Which currently only exists in tournaments and which wasn’t necessary in the past, because – even if balance was far from perfect – there were enough reasons to play different classes instead of stacking few.

Maybe I should have used toker as an example to get my point across, toker played thief = crap tier over rev god tier last season. So yeah . Just look at Lol, let’s not be close minded here, what has riot done about the crap tier classes in Lol?? And I am not saying it doesn’t matter how weak or strong some classes are. My point we would always have a weak or strong class so balance is this case is not the problem, subjectivity is. If you class get nerf you d hate the balance and vice versa.

Back to your first point, how many players ranted when that happened?? I heard warrior were hit the most by the changes. So, are you actually pro- HoT type of balance?

I don’t know much about LoL and i don’t care much about this game. I just know, it hasn’t much in common with Guild Wars.
Toker switched to rev during the season (and let’s be honest, there is not much competition for Abjured in NA – he still changed class).

And again, just because balance will never be perfect, it is not a reason, to not constantly try to improve it. The opposite is the case. BECAUSE balance is never perfect, anet should constantly work on it …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I don’t know much about LoL and i don’t care much about this game. I just know, it hasn’t much in common with Guild Wars.
Toker switched to rev during the season (and let’s be honest, there is not much competition for Abjured in NA – he still changed class).

And again, just because balance will never be perfect, it is not a reason, to not constantly try to improve it. The opposite is the case. BECAUSE balance is never perfect, anet should constantly work on it …

Ok maybe you missed what I have said up there. But during the pro league toker used a thief instead of a revs. If balance was solely affecting diversity or whatever he would have either stayed on his rev or picked a DH. Him picking a thief during a pro game shows that preference is a factor when we talk about balance/diversity. But I’ll elaborate more on it later.

He played thief in the earlier pro league games. Where teams were still experimenting and not running optimal comps. He switched to rev for later games (including the finals). Was ist simply because of preference? I doubt it.

Before the june 23 2015 patch, Anet said they were re-working trait lines.

We had the ability to put trait points that was “upgrading” out stats.

They said, if we are destroying a viable build, please report so we can fix our thing.

Well, they destroyed Decap Engi build, Healing Bombs build, Shoutbow Warrior Build, d/f condi ele signet build, bunker guardian build…

The new system wrekt build diversities way more than opening more options to be played. After HoT, the prowercreep did RIP the last build diversities we had…

Well… since 2012… all DEAD META build of the past to NOW should be tweak up to be balanced and viable NOW. That way, we would get way more than 4 options to play META.

But well… ANET prefer to destroy the past to reconstruct something new… so, Not sure if they will buff to viable and not nerf everything to the ground (removal of soldier, sentinel, celestial…).

-=-=-=-=-=- /rant

Now, please open up build diversities in giving sPVP the same stats system than PVE or WvW.