Guild Wars 2

I keep seeing people ask for other gametypes such as arena, and every time they do some people reply with the ArenaNet talking point about restricting sPVP to one gametype so that it is easier to balance.

That’s fine.

The thing is, conquest is really, really boring. I say this as someone who couldn’t wait for GW2 to launch after having PVPed non-stop during each beta weekend. Fast forward 2 months and I don’t even log in any more, and when I did I was doing PVE (leveled to 69).

We all know that there is no ladder in sPVP, no spectator system, no dueling, and no private servers. This is pretty sad from a game that apparently wanted to be an esport, but the thing is, I’m not sure implementing these things will add much interest to sPVP — because conquest is just utterly dull.

I really think it’s a bad idea to focus on one gametype when the chosen gametype is not very interesting. Give us arena, give us CTF, give us payload. Make the game FUN, and worry about balance later. Because games are supposed to be FUN, and right now what you have is a game that is balanced, but not very fun to play.

Other pvp match types would be awesome.

ArenaNet could just add this for the 8v8 sPvP only and NOT tournaments, so they don’t have to worry about e-sport balance.

Other maps would be nice, diff types of gameplay would be nice. I.E. ctf and single player elem. Game is not made for 8v8 so 5v5 would be better.. paid tourney is to much atm for most people.. hopefully some of these get fixed soon. Other types would be awesome though.

Implement new game types and maps, ladders, a matchmaking system and all sorts of other things. What I REALLY want to see right now are arenas. 1v1 and 3v3 especially.

They could add the other gametypes (not arena, requires a much different balance) for the hot join, but really, a reality check, they didn’t have the desire (or perhaps resouces) to make 8v8 maps for hot-join and just stuck 8v8 on a 5v5 maps, resulting in the worst casual/fun PvP in history, what are the chances of them putting resources into this any time remotely soon, when they still have stuff to do for their beloved tourneys?

They were adding a new PvP mode on the update of 15th november as I recall though. Maybe that’ll spice things up

Timeslice.9027:

I keep seeing people ask for other gametypes such as arena, and every time they do some people reply with the ArenaNet talking point about restricting sPVP to one gametype so that it is easier to balance.

That’s fine.

The thing is, conquest is really, really boring. I say this as someone who couldn’t wait for GW2 to launch after having PVPed non-stop during each beta weekend. Fast forward 2 months and I don’t even log in any more, and when I did I was doing PVE (leveled to 69).

We all know that there is no ladder in sPVP, no spectator system, no dueling, and no private servers. This is pretty sad from a game that apparently wanted to be an esport, but the thing is, I’m not sure implementing these things will add much interest to sPVP — because conquest is just utterly dull.

I really think it’s a bad idea to focus on one gametype when the chosen gametype is not very interesting. Give us arena, give us CTF, give us payload. Make the game FUN, and worry about balance later. Because games are supposed to be FUN, and right now what you have is a game that is balanced, but not very fun to play.

Was going to agree with you, But than you said that the game is balanced which is not and everyone knows it!

Kroya.1072:

They were adding a new PvP mode on the update of 15th november as I recall though. Maybe that’ll spice things up

I’d like to see where you got that info

Timeslice.9027:

The thing is, conquest is really, really boring. I say this as someone who couldn’t wait for GW2 to launch after having PVPed non-stop during each beta weekend. Fast forward 2 months and I don’t even log in any more, and when I did I was doing PVE (leveled to 69).

I do not agree. Looking at this topic

“Balance doesn´t matter if conquest is boring” is only half true. Yes balance doesnt matter if the PVP is not fun. But its not conquest issue.

If you look at bigger picture its not a problem of only one mode being in the game. I have played over 900 games in tournaments and some nice games in paid tournaments too. To be honest this game mode is totaly fine as long as you got enemy that is equally skilled to you. I have played some games where we had so much fun, games which we turned from loosing by 100 points to winning by 100 points. These are games we all looking for. Challenging games!! thats the problem here. We mostly do not get challenging games and therefore they seems to be boring.

Of course they are ! yesterday after midday we got party and since paid tournaments doesnt poped we were queing in free tournaments. And guess what.. winning 500:0 is not fun even for premade and even for those randoms guys.

Conquest in my Eyes is fine so i would change this topic to:

“Balance doesn´t matter if we dont have matchmaking and kind of rating system”

Because then you should have challenging games and im pretty sure Conquest mode is good as long as we get challenging games and oponents that are same in skill level.

EDIT: adding new modes will probably only split community even more leaving us with longer queue times again and very soon you will became boring once again because of missing matchmaking.

Honestly I enjoy conquest. CTF and deathmatch gamemodes might be fun but they’re too linear for my tastes. by linear i mean, they’re arnt many routes available to achieve the end goal.

In deathmatch you achieve victory by killing your opponents or are defeated by your own death. Pretty clear cut and bland.

In CTF gamemodes you achieve victory by picking up an objective from the enemies base and walking it back to your own. I could see ways to mix things up and add more elements to CTF but I havnt seen it from any game so it’s still considered bland imo.

Conquest and side objectives enable many routes to victory, especially in GW2 with the side objectives. The idea is basic where all you have to do is cap points and hope/pray that you reach 500 pts first. But if you pay attention to what’s going on you’ll see the capture points changing teams frequently.

Needs a simple RA style Deathmatch just for fun….

That is what people like to do time to time…. game also badly needs dueling.

aragiel’s got it right. nothing wrong with conquest. it’s all about the matchmaking. pug farming is not competitive.

the new conquest map with a triple node neutralizing buff will make for some great plays. if they also shake up the meta with profession balances & give custom servers on the 15th, things could get quite interesting.

they should make true 8v8 maps for hotjoin though. 5 nodes instead of 3, larger distances between nodes. and probably remove Skirmisher bonus.

i dont think we get custom servers on the 15th patch. We would allready know if they have this in plan.

We will probably get only one additional map for hot-join (hot-join due to its only betaversion) and thats it.

I do not see anything else comming for PVP on 15th patch. Only proffesion changes and a lot of PVE updates..

that feel bad..

I actually like the conquest system, and find it really fun. If you want a 5v5 deathmatch go back wow or cs. The conquest system adds a huge estrategy side for tPvP play and im glad they won’t change it but look for it’s balance.

Your argument is invalid sir.

Jony.6815:

I actually like the conquest system, and find it really fun. If you want a 5v5 deathmatch go back wow or cs. The conquest system adds a huge estrategy side for tPvP play and im glad they won’t change it but look for it’s balance.

Your argument is invalid sir.

Argument is invalid because you disagree?

rolls eyes

There are plenty of people who have a desire for something different.

You realize that the game isn’t and never will be technically finished. As for why they don’t add X and Y now could be said for all “content” complaints. I like to think they ARE actually working on things that are exactly (or a general work field of) what we ask for, they’re just getting around to it as somethings might be more important in the DEV teams eyes than any few specific players.

Won’t custom maps allow us to make 5v5 hot-join matches? If so, that’ll be an evolution right there. Hopefully, we’ll get it the next patch, but even if we don’t, a new map and better balance should entertain us until december’s big patch.

That being said, I also want new game modes. A simple deathmatch like an improved version of Random Arena, with the choice between 1v1 (duel) up to 5v5 (and anything inbetween) is plain fun. Someone said it would be bland. I disagree. I wouldn’t be bland, because GW2’s battle system, at its best, is not bland at all. Bunker builds would be useless here, though, like they were at RA, unless there’s some kind of movement/ position involved with inherent map mechanics, but every other build should work great.

Also, Capture The Flag? I get excited like a little girl just thinking of the kind of strategies we could create in new game modes. I suppose CTF would depend on bunkers or roamers to take the flag, supporters and crowd controlers to keep the flagger safe or cripple them, and bursters to take them down. If there aren’t many players on map (5v5 at most), it could be very fun.

Plum Butter.4058:

You realize that the game isn’t and never will be technically finished. As for why they don’t add X and Y now could be said for all “content” complaints. I like to think they ARE actually working on things that are exactly (or a general work field of) what we ask for, they’re just getting around to it as somethings might be more important in the DEV teams eyes than any few specific players.

I hope they just do realize that there is nothing else as important as ranking and matchmaking.
I know its sounds like personal opinion which is in fact. But if you see the game what makes player to play the game in long run?

is it new map? no
is it new gamemode? no
is it new exiting rewards and skins? no
is it the fact that you can roflstomp anyone? no (but i agree some players like it)

so whats make players to play the game for long time? Those above mentioned are great a nice but doesnt work as long as there is no basic.

Abraham Maslow made this awesome pyramid http://www.timlebon.com/maslow.htm showing what do people need.. and if you adjust it a bit for “games” then you see it differently.

If we dont get ranking and matchmaking – then simply nothing will change. We can be excited for 2 weeks from new map, or even new gamemode, but it will become boring as hell in same time. We need a challenge in our games – and by challenge i mean equally skilled opposition. I dont need to be roflstomped by top teams – and neather i dont like to roflstomp random players.

Even if conquest is boring balance still matters

The spectator mode, ladder, etc. is stuff they can easily add. It may take a while for them to bite the bullet and realize conquest kind of sucks.

Strategically it lacks depth. It only works as a casual mode to get people to run around, because the nodes have no strategic context or result, they just generate points to an arbitrarily specified amount and then the game ends.

There’s a reason FPS that have been successful esports typically don’t use conquest. Once teams get coordinated conquest in any game either involves running around killing people, or taking more than half the points and turtling depending on how much kills are worth/respawn locations/etc. The secondary mechanics do add something to the game, but it’s not enough to save this shallow gametype.

Also, it sucks to watch. The action and the scoring don’t coincide, which often makes it anti-climactic or boring to watch. Two teams can be locked in a super close fight over mid, balanced on a knife edge, but if one team owns 2 of the three points during this nailbiting team fight, that team has probably already won the game.

It just feels like a game type where you’re always playing to take a marginal advantage and run down the clock, not to complete a goal or dominate your opponent.

I’m still trying to take this game seriously, but there are so many classic gametypes (if not new and original ideas) that I’d rather play than conquest.

conquest is fun

problem is team balance (absence of some kind of rating) and a bit of profession balance

PS: reason why FPS dont use conquest is because in FPS you CANT just stand on point and defend it, in FPS there is NO defense, just attack, they are forced to play deatmatch or ctf or something because any sniper (or anyone else who can aim for headshot) would just 1 shot anyone standing on point and trying to defend it without him having a chance to defend himself

MaXi.3642:

PS: reason why FPS dont use conquest is because in FPS you CANT just stand on point and defend it, in FPS there is NO defense, just attack, they are forced to play deatmatch or ctf or something because any sniper (or anyone else who can aim for headshot) would just 1 shot anyone standing on point and trying to defend it without him having a chance to defend himself

UT domination and its various derivatives want a word with you.

I don’t even play sPvP anymore thanks to conquest, I spend all my time in WvW. I won’t be coming back until more game modes are released.

Noctred.6732:

MaXi.3642:

PS: reason why FPS dont use conquest is because in FPS you CANT just stand on point and defend it, in FPS there is NO defense, just attack, they are forced to play deatmatch or ctf or something because any sniper (or anyone else who can aim for headshot) would just 1 shot anyone standing on point and trying to defend it without him having a chance to defend himself

UT domination and its various derivatives want a word with you.

say it to the one who i was replying to

MaXi.3642:

Noctred.6732:

MaXi.3642:

PS: reason why FPS dont use conquest is because in FPS you CANT just stand on point and defend it, in FPS there is NO defense, just attack, they are forced to play deatmatch or ctf or something because any sniper (or anyone else who can aim for headshot) would just 1 shot anyone standing on point and trying to defend it without him having a chance to defend himself

UT domination and its various derivatives want a word with you.

say it to the one who i was replying to

Most FPS games that come to mind have a conquest mode, it’s just not the kind of gametype that people want to watch or play at a high level, hence it doesn’t get used in tournaments.

ok ok, but anyway, i like conquest in RPG

I don’t think conquest is boring so much as I feel it is more of a CounterStrike game than a Guild Wars game. It’s more twitchy and less RPG-ish.

I miss GW1 Arena PvP where there was tension between killing each others’ healers and resing one another in time. This zerg rush play doesn’t have the same tense moments that you can look back on when the game is over and say, “Wow, that was tense” – because in this game type all players are constantly blowing their loads at all times.

I don’t know much about competitive FPS, what kind of gametype do games like BF3 and TF2 use in esports?

A quick google search gives me:
http://battlefield.gigabyte.com/en/statics/rules

Which says conquest? Or does BF3 “conquest” mean something different?

Beonebee.7385:

Kroya.1072:

They were adding a new PvP mode on the update of 15th november as I recall though. Maybe that’ll spice things up

I’d like to see where you got that info

In an interview (not a written source) it was said that there would be NO new gamemode, but that there would be a new MAP.

So a new map for the same conquest.

It was a live stream interview with a designer, I watched it myself and heard him say this.
Also that the sharks would be reduced in number

Rieselle.5079:

I don’t know much about competitive FPS, what kind of gametype do games like BF3 and TF2 use in esports?

A quick google search gives me:
http://battlefield.gigabyte.com/en/statics/rules

Which says conquest? Or does BF3 “conquest” mean something different?

Conquest is a great mode in FPS, I would agree.

However, conquest in an MMO is just boring.

Tip: You can’t bunker build in an FPS.

Bunzy.8674:

Rieselle.5079:

I don’t know much about competitive FPS, what kind of gametype do games like BF3 and TF2 use in esports?

A quick google search gives me:
http://battlefield.gigabyte.com/en/statics/rules

Which says conquest? Or does BF3 “conquest” mean something different?

Conquest is a great mode in FPS, I would agree.

However, conquest in an MMO is just boring.

Tip: You can’t bunker build in an FPS.

I’m hoping bunker builds get nerfed this patch. And the new map, with the ability to kill a boss and cap all points instantly, sounds very cool on theory. Let’s see how the patch changes the pvp environment.

Im still in my opinion..

Conquest is totally fine as long as there is matchmaking system and you get equally skilled opponents.

What makes Conquest boring right now is that you even get killed by top teams or you kill randoms.

I have seen and played lot of great games where situation changed many times. It was great. I see the potencial there.. but we need matchmaking. And i believe we need it fast.

And – to the bunker builds: check Super Squad.. they run 4 full burst class and one semi bunker guardian. Look at how much QP they got..
its not about bunkers, its about burst..

I think the core game is fun as it is, although it can feel a bit repetitive right now with only three maps (Raid on the Capricorn doesn’t count, because it’s just plain bad). I see sPvP as basically a FPS game. I played Battlefield 3 for almost 400 hours only in conquest, and it never got bored to me.

I also only played PvP during betas, and I thought to myself that the whole idea is very good in gw2: no healers, no gear advantage, no grinding, you need to evade attacks, block attacks yourself, aim most of the skills you have.

But I actually thought there would be more pvp modes ingame, and ANet is just not showing it all during BWE. How wrong was I – nothing has changed in pvp field from the first beta (well to be honest – paid tournaments were added that rarely someone plays since queues are insane and the minimap is now square not round). I was hoping for at least duels, also more modes (CTF/DM/VIP escort/defend & attack) made possible for fewer people (2×2 3×3 not only 5×5)

Currently I still only play PvP, and not that wvw crap where gear matters, but all enthusiasm is changing and now it becomes boring fast…

P.S. Do not mix FPS and Gw2 – FPS conquest modes work because there are no bunkers at FPS. Also some best fps games are not in a conquest mode (quake, counter-strike).

Lukin.4061:

P.S. Do not mix FPS and Gw2 – FPS conquest modes work because there are no bunkers at FPS. Also some best fps games are not in a conquest mode (quake, counter-strike).

All conquest mode games have some kind of defenders. Planetside 2 and Tribes Ascend literally have bunker builds, and Battlefield 3 can have three Engineers in a tank who makes it work as a bunker build.

what if they did a League of Legends type thing, where there were 3 lanes, minions, jungling, turrets, baron, and a shop to mix recipes and make items, that would be pretty cool

Sam Pan.3651:

I miss GW1 Arena PvP where there was tension between killing each others’ healers and resing one another in time. This zerg rush play doesn’t have the same tense moments that you can look back on when the game is over and say, “Wow, that was tense” – because in this game type all players are constantly blowing their loads at all times.

Yes there are some moments of anticipation and intensity missing in the combat. 24/7 load blowing is a pretty good way to put it. I’m not saying the game doesn’t take skill, but the way it’s designed it feels like a lot of the build up and back and forth is missing, and everyone is just racing to the finish as fast as they can.

Even in little things, like the fact that most casters never stop moving to charge up and release a big spell. That’s a quick moment of suspense, and it gives players an opportunity to actually see something coming and counter it, but there are almost no skills like that in GW2. Movement is great, but it loses some of its impact and strategic significance when there’s never any incentive to stop.

Not sure if arena will work well with gw2 combat. Since there’s no healer/tank role in this game, the only obvious tactic to do in a 3v3 or 5v5 is just focus target someone down. And since there’s no healer, there’s nothing anyone can do to save the focus target. I don’t see much strategy involve so I don’t think it would be any fun or competitive. The action is just so fast pace in this game that the only game type I see at the moment that will work is conquest…well unless they decide to revamp the game later.

Other game types like capture the flag wont’ work with gw2 either. How are you going to support the flag carrier when there’s no healer in this game?

100% agree with everything the OP said.

soysauce.1246:

Not sure if arena will work well with gw2 combat. Since there’s no healer/tank role in this game, the only obvious tactic to do in a 3v3 or 5v5 is just focus target someone down. And since there’s no healer, there’s nothing anyone can do to save the focus target. I don’t see much strategy involve so I don’t think it would be any fun or competitive. The action is just so fast pace in this game that the only game type I see at the moment that will work is conquest…well unless they decide to revamp the game later.

Other game types like capture the flag wont’ work with gw2 either. How are you going to support the flag carrier when there’s no healer in this game?

Yeah, I really love 90% of the changes/enhancements made to GW2 over GW1, however, the one thing they had no need to change was the PvP and the way that skills work.

It was interesting to hear that there were no dedicated healers before the game came out, but now I sort of think they should rethink that and put healers back in because there is a tactical element that used to be in GW1 that’s not in the sequel. It’s FUN to have a teammate save you or to be able to save others, it’s FUN to be the monk and have everyone trying to get you, it’s FUN!

I really miss GW1 PvP Arena… seeing someone charge up for a meteor shower and then interupting them with a perfectly timed shot… t_t

GW2 pvp is balanced around the conquest mode, no? Deathmatches would have a ton of thieves running around like hot join lol.

Ctf would be awesome though!

Heroes Ascent and its modes would be fun.. a simple arena where you go from map to map and you simply end up in Hall of Heroes and you fight there as long as you are able to win..
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Heroes%27_Ascent

It was a great mode !! and even i was focused on gvg i have spend some serious time in HA. It was so unique mechanic.. and so awesome.

However. .thats not what GW2 need right now. We need to make working matchmaking so pugs dont fights premades and when this is working.. then Anet can start to think about new modes.

I would like so much deathmatch arenas