Guild Wars 2

So there is no argument at the moment elite specs are pure upgrade and are mandatory in competitive play.

As they were introduced they were presented as “a different way to play your class”, that made me think, what if elite specs would also lose an ability to wield an existing weapon set?

Let’s take for example the thief class, so Darrdevil enables you to wield a staff, but what if when you go Daredevil you also lose the ability to wield daggers?
That in conjunction with some very necessary buffs to existing trait lines could make some interesting builds.

Obviously this requires more thought which weapons to enable/disable per class, but I’ll leave that to the ANet “balance experts”.

I find this to be an interesting idea and I’m having fun thinking about it, but it probably wouldn’t have the effect on the current balance that you’re looking for. For example, a tempest without a staff will do just fine, as would a DH without a shield, a zerker without a GS, a druid without a longbow. The only way to make this impactful is to prevent the elite spec from using the weapon with best synergy: for example, a zerker without a mace or shield, a DH without a sword, a reaper without a staff, a tempest without a focus, a thief without a shortbow etc.

There’s another idea floating around that would make the core class mechanic traitline (e.g., guardian virtues, necro soul reaping) an “elite” too that can’t be used contemporaneously with the elite spec. This one is interesting also. It would prevent reapers from having unblockable marks, prevent druids from having insane regen uptime for AF generation, gut DH condi clear and stability. I’m not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but there are some obvious problems with it (e.g., it eliminates the possibility of a condi chrono entirely).

How can a warrior be disciplined and be a berzerker at the same time? Makes no sense thematically. Anyway it would make the most sense if all elite specializations replaced class mechanics like they do with the guardian virtues or necro death shroud. This way it would not be a bland upgrade like it is with mesmer where you get a f5 and loose nothing, lets say if you slot in chronomancer you loose distortion shatter but get the continium split.

also this:

What if the trait line that enhances your profession mechanic was turned in to a elite specialization (discipline, trickery, soul reaping, beast mastery, illusions, tools, invocation, virtues, arcane). This way they can giving us some build diversity (before another expansion), you ether stick with the vanila elite specs (and therefor the base class name) and 2 other core ones or the HoT elite spec (and change to the different class name) and 2 other core ones.
Of course there would have to be some rebalancing done to make the ‘new’ vanila elite competitive in power to the HoT elite, but we can all agree that the game is in need of balance as is so it woild not be a big deal.

The reason i bring this idea up is because thees specializations are used in almost every build anyway (most warrior builds take discipline, every thief pick trickery, every guardian build pick up virtues, infact only mesmer, engineer and ele do not pick theirs currently) and by making them elite the players would be forced in to a choice, and non HoT players will have access to a competitive build. This is assuming they balance them according to the power level of HoT elite specs, and every future elite spec.

foste.3098:

How can a warrior be disciplined and be a berzerker at the same time? Makes no sense thematically. Anyway it would make the most sense if all elite specializations replaced class mechanics like they do with the guardian virtues or necro death shroud. This way it would not be a bland upgrade like it is with mesmer where you get a f5 and loose nothing, lets say if you slot in chronomancer you loose distortion shatter but get the continium split.

also this:

What if the trait line that enhances your profession mechanic was turned in to a elite specialization (discipline, trickery, soul reaping, beast mastery, illusions, tools, invocation, virtues, arcane). This way they can giving us some build diversity (before another expansion), you ether stick with the vanila elite specs (and therefor the base class name) and 2 other core ones or the HoT elite spec (and change to the different class name) and 2 other core ones.
Of course there would have to be some rebalancing done to make the ‘new’ vanila elite competitive in power to the HoT elite, but we can all agree that the game is in need of balance as is so it woild not be a big deal.

The reason i bring this idea up is because thees specializations are used in almost every build anyway (most warrior builds take discipline, every thief pick trickery, every guardian build pick up virtues, infact only mesmer, engineer and ele do not pick theirs currently) and by making them elite the players would be forced in to a choice, and non HoT players will have access to a competitive build. This is assuming they balance them according to the power level of HoT elite specs, and every future elite spec.

As mentioned above, one major problem I see is that it prevents chronomancers from running condition builds. Other than that, it is a cool idea.

Salamander.2504:

As mentioned above, one major problem I see is that it prevents chronomancers from running condition builds. Other than that, it is a cool idea.

So instead you play a condi mesmer with the illusions elite specialization i don’t see a problem. The idea is to have both the HoT and the ‘vanila’ elite specs equal in power the only legitimate issue would be that there are some builds that would get deleted because you need to slot in 1 of the 2 elite specs (such as a fire air water ele but lets not kid our ourselves, this would not make a impact as there is 0 build diversity now).

foste.3098:

Salamander.2504:

As mentioned above, one major problem I see is that it prevents chronomancers from running condition builds. Other than that, it is a cool idea.

So instead you play a condi mesmer with the illusions elite specialization i don’t see a problem. The idea is to have both the HoT and the ‘vanila’ elite specs equal in power the only legitimate issue would be that there are some builds that would get deleted because you need to slot in 1 of the 2 elite specs (such as a fire air water ele but lets not kid our ourselves, this would not make a impact as there is 0 build diversity now).

Eh, I would look through the illusions traitline and compare it with chrono if I were you. Illusions is a weird traitline in that it’s the least similar to the other core class mechanic traitlines. If Inspiration or Chaos were the core traitline that you deemed “elite” it might work, but it just won’t with illusions because it’s where all of the condi pressure comes from. Illusions is the only class mechanic traitline in the game that has such a heavy focus on increasing DPS.

Personally, I hate that so many classes get so many weapon choices.
I would really work it down quiet a bit, to say 4 weapons (ish) for each class (give or take the warrior with a lot more). it would look something like

Another thing that really annoys me is the “20% Reduction to weapon skills” Talents, These talents should be on the main hexagon (like you get box on Dragon hunter etc) and they should naturally give a bonus as an incentive, but not a negative aspect of “not picking” that talent. This way you can get the bonus for using that weapon, but are not forced to lose something in return for it.

Removing to many weapons would be negative for a class. I’m Not sure if you ask me about this idea, But i know some other classes (like guardian) i would fully support removing “long bow” from.

I never understood why specializations did not replace class mechanic trait lines. The class mechanic lines were initially class specific specializations that boosted the current class mechanic. For example discipline and berserker, daredevil and trickery etc.

Used to be speccing into discipline make your burst skills better. They scrapped all of that and just made too much baseline.

Elites definitely need to lose something and be tweaked so that they are alternative playstyles and not upgrades. I think having Elites replace the class mechanic line would be the best, but that would involve a lot more changes as well.

I guess this is essentially what subsequent elite specialisations will do, but I do like the idea of being denied base class weapon access when using an elite specialisation.

I have to heavily disagree with the OPs idea. Right now the game suffers from a very limited selection of viable builds; I certainly don’t want A-net cutting down on build options. Besides, do you want to be the guy who has to explain to a player why their favorite build got thrown on the chopping block for a gimmick?

On the subject of making one of the core specializations an elite, this I might be on board with depending on implementation. Give them a buff and you functionally deal with the problem of the HoT specs being considered overpowered without having to wait around for the next expac to drop. And as someone else said, it doesn’t make that much sense for a warrior to be both disciplined and a berserker at once now does it? Might be some merit to the idea.

Leave elite specializations alone.

Salamander.2504:

Eh, I would look through the illusions traitline and compare it with chrono if I were you. Illusions is a weird traitline in that it’s the least similar to the other core class mechanic traitlines. If Inspiration or Chaos were the core traitline that you deemed “elite” it might work, but it just won’t with illusions because it’s where all of the condi pressure comes from. Illusions is the only class mechanic traitline in the game that has such a heavy focus on increasing DPS.

On the other hand, Chrono has such a focus on support and utility that being mesmer or chrono would really be a choice of gameplay.
On the other hand, the suggested change is not incompatible with balance modifications, like having more dps trait in domination or duel or swap some trait from illu to those lines. It could be even easier to do those changes because there wouldn’t be any fear of broken combos.

I’d like this idea of upgrading prof spec into an elite one. The main problem is that after June trait revamp, another one would be required because some weapon and utilities are strongly attached to those lines like spectral or arcane skills, gadgets, warrior longbow or mesmer scepter. For some it would maybe be ok but for other (like war longbow) it wouldn’t fit with elite specs identities.
Sum up : Great idea but way too much work right now and I am not sure that the different metas need to be so much shaken.

It is “Elite” specialisation, the original example was have it that a warrior stops being able to use a greatsword if they become a berserker and daredevil loses the ability to wield daggers. I can’t imagine how it could be explained that a character can use a weapon from level 1 then just loses the ability to wield it when they are level 80 and stronger. Thief starts off with a dagger. So they lose the ability to wield the weapon they could use since tutorial when they become what is meant to be stronger?

Electra.7530:

Leave elite specializations alone.

Like Britney?

I agree but the same could go for elites why would you learn how to use a weapon and then some how forget if you are not using the elite specialization? so what if they untied weapons to elites?

Mundane guys in this game (engineers) can poop turrets from their tushies. So do not bother yourselves with rationalizaton that much. Decorum is already unstable.

Linking old trait lines with certain weapons and skills would certainly create more opportunity cost in picking your build. However if anything it would probably leave you with less choice in your build than we have currently.

Another idea would be that once you have unlocked the elite ,the skills and weapon that comes with the elite can be used regardless of whether you have the elite trait line slotted or not. This way you are only slotting the elite for the trait line itself and the ability change it brings which is still fairly attractive but i think new interesting builds would be possible.

sure lets reduce build diversity even further……

Spartacus.3192:

sure lets reduce build diversity even further……

This. We need more build diversity, They should allow other specs to use elite spec weapons. They should also bring back the old trait system as this one allows players to use more trait points causing the power creep we see now while at the same time reducing build variety.

This game is almost communist run by dictators. The HoT patch was a selfish act by the balance team as they didn’t balance a complicated game but rather made it easier to balance by reducing variety. Ironically, they still can’t balance the game.

I don’t mean to offend, but it is the truth that they need to man up to instead of getting angry and silencing players who call them out or using forum manipulation such as the banning of poles/pole like threads thus preventing players from voicing their opinions.