Guild Wars 2

Lots of talk about balance following HoT. Here’s my take on it-
Balance for eSport comes down to balance in classes and balance in environments/arenas. GW2 actually does both quite well. Balance for arenas comes from consistency. Minor variations map to map are allowed, but overall the core mechanics should be identical and VERY CONSISTENT between maps. The map play mechanics define the game being played for which the team’s collective skill is being leveled for the win or loss. Consistent maps are probably the most important aspect of good esport.

Class balance comes from the developer though nerfs and buffs, but also from the community though meta builds. If you choose to run an inferior Guardian build that you slapped together yourself against a team with a Dragon Hunter that owns you then you are the problem, the balance of the game isn’t. Consider that: You had access to the current meta, you have access to all weapon, armor mods and max stats. Not playing a meta build and screaming things are not balanced is ridiculous. It would be like trying to play basketball in flip-flop shoes and complaining because you have to wear sneakers.

I think we find a great deal of balance in GW2 PvP though meta and ANet has been good in the past with keeping the unbalanced maps out of Tournament rotation. Overall I don’t have a lot of complaints.

I agree to a extent,

I wont say names or when but i was on a team and he was trying to run a all shout guardian bunker. He couldnt against dragon hunter and said game is broken. I suggested removing staff for scepter focus and changing some traits for that.

Then going shelter with renewed focus for the invulnerability and condi cleanses from your F2 instead of all shouts. He didnt want to change his build then just complained about reapers and Dh for the nest 12 minutes.

Its one thing to say something is Op which is fine but its another to do and not even attempt to adapt.

My only real compliant is that I think those taking it seriously who want to practice unranked should not be forced to deal with maps that out unbalanced/outside tournament rotation EVER. It’s a simple checkbox, we know they can do it. They did it for Stronghold.

“seriously who want to practice unranked”.

That is your problem. If you want serious practice, you set up scrims or pick up games in a private server with like minded individuals who will help you learn and improve. Unranked should not be a real source of practice for a pro leageue.

On a side note: yes please remove Skyhammer and Spirit Watch.

Okay, no offense but unless I’m misinterpreting the OP’s post it is absolutely ludicrous. Do you seriously believe that it is good design to be able to say it’s the PLAYERS fault for getting stomped just because they didn’t play the one overpowered meta build? I mean really? In this case what is the point of build diversity? Just take away traits, runes, sigils, ect. and make everyone have to play the meta build for their class. Honestly the game would probably be a lot better this way considering how awful Anet is at balance.

I agree that it’s stupid for someone to complain if they have a kittened build. They should be punished for being dumb. But when you literally have no options if you want to be competitive but to play one single build…that’s just absurdly bad design. Half the weapons, traits, and utilities in the game are utter garbage. Maybe someday there will be a real choice between builds…someday…

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

“seriously who want to practice unranked”.

That is your problem. If you want serious practice, you set up scrims or pick up games in a private server with like minded individuals who will help you learn and improve. Unranked should not be a real source of practice for a pro leageue.

On a side note: yes please remove Skyhammer and Spirit Watch.

You are assuming all Amateur players should be grouped together and Pro should be it’s own thing This is a problem with PvP in this game. It’s a problem the devs are addressing with Leagues so finally there will be a progression.

Truthfully Pro is for a very few elites, non pre-made amateur is a big chunk but many want the sweet spot in between, pre-made groups that take it seriously enough but due to life commitments don’t have time to take things pro. League divisions in combination with more private “no-pro” tournaments will continue to solidify this category of play. This is why it’s important they be selected as optional maps for queuing. If you think about it, I’m asking them to add a feature (checkbox to opt in for non-ranked maps). It seems people will argue over anything.

Eisenwald.8562:

Okay, no offense but unless I’m misinterpreting the OP’s post it is absolutely ludicrous. Do you seriously believe that it is good design to be able to say it’s the PLAYERS fault for getting stomped just because they didn’t play the one overpowered meta build? I mean really? In this case what is the point of build diversity? Just take away traits, runes, sigils, ect. and make everyone have to play the meta build for their class. Honestly the game would probably be a lot better this way considering how awful Anet is at balance.

I agree that it’s stupid for someone to complain if they have a kittened build. They should be punished for being dumb. But when you literally have no options if you want to be competitive but to play one single build…that’s just absurdly bad design. Half the weapons, traits, and utilities in the game are utter garbage. Maybe someday there will be a real choice between builds…someday…

No, no, no. I want to be clear in my perspective. You still may disagree, but you do misunderstand. I strongly feel grossly over powered builds have to be balanced, but we prob disagree on the definition of what is OP in Nov 2015. Having a handful of meta builds is very common. I don’t see any grossly over powered builds in GW2 currently just a new crop of Elite Specialization metas that dominate the game. Is that really any surprise? Just because your old core game team build is no longer viable does not necessary mean the new builds are OP. Plenty of teams are successfully mixing old with new. You just can no longer expect your pre HoT team build to cut it. It just means there is now a collection of new builds you’ll have to run to be competitive (or at least have a few team members running them). This is normal.

Look at the two leading Pro teams (Orange Logo, Abjured) watch their final match for the world cup. What do we see? Meta builds or slight variants (the winning team ran two D/D Eles before the nerf, both teams had a meta thief) Having an optimal configuration for pvp for specific types of class play is an excellent thing for PvP for the same reason shoulder pads and helmets are good for the NFL. It’s just the tools of the trade the focus is on your skill with the strategy shifted away from build config (this isn’t GW1, this isn’t “build wars” anymore). It’s not about who strategically put together the best built, it’s who is most effective with the meta (builds that have risen up though natrual selection). The developer made it clear they wanted to move away from the strategy being in a complex skill system.. I loved GW1 and it’s focus on build strategy, but GW2 does not work the same way for PvP. The focus is not there and I’m glad it is’t.

Today’s meta is tomorrow’s nerf. The only thing that’s changed is you had to buy HoT to play this time around.

Eisenwald.8562:

Okay, no offense but unless I’m misinterpreting the OP’s post it is absolutely ludicrous. Do you seriously believe that it is good design to be able to say it’s the PLAYERS fault for getting stomped just because they didn’t play the one overpowered meta build? I mean really? In this case what is the point of build diversity? Just take away traits, runes, sigils, ect. and make everyone have to play the meta build for their class. Honestly the game would probably be a lot better this way considering how awful Anet is at balance.

I agree that it’s stupid for someone to complain if they have a kittened build. They should be punished for being dumb. But when you literally have no options if you want to be competitive but to play one single build…that’s just absurdly bad design. Half the weapons, traits, and utilities in the game are utter garbage. Maybe someday there will be a real choice between builds…someday…

Guild Wars 2 gives you the freedom to spec however you want basically. That means that players can make builds that absolutely blow chunks. That doesn’t mean there is a problem however. Players are free to suck. They are also free to get gudd.

Schurge.5194:

Guild Wars 2 gives you the freedom to spec however you want basically. That means that players can make builds that absolutely blow chunks. That doesn’t mean there is a problem however. Players are free to suck. They are also free to get gudd.

Yup. That and it doesnt matter what metabunny build you go and find, if your still kitten poor at the game and have no idea what your doing, its going to show. Sub par build are not even that bad so long as you actually have traits/amulet/weapons that match a specific damage type and know what your doing.

At OP I think the majority of the problem with pvp atm is its not even really fun to watch. PvP is slow paced and the majority of time its just wet cele noodles slapping each other and reseting. To be honest watching explosive noobfights is more interesting than watching esl. Its about the same as fighting too.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Lots of talk about balance following HoT. Here’s my take on it-
Balance for eSport comes down to balance in classes and balance in environments/arenas. GW2 actually does both quite well. Balance for arenas comes from consistency. Minor variations map to map are allowed, but overall the core mechanics should be identical and VERY CONSISTENT between maps. The map play mechanics define the game being played for which the team’s collective skill is being leveled for the win or loss. Consistent maps are probably the most important aspect of good esport.

Class balance comes from the developer though nerfs and buffs, but also from the community though meta builds. If you choose to run an inferior Guardian build that you slapped together yourself against a team with a Dragon Hunter that owns you then you are the problem, the balance of the game isn’t. Consider that: You had access to the current meta, you have access to all weapon, armor mods and max stats. Not playing a meta build and screaming things are not balanced is ridiculous. It would be like trying to play basketball in flip-flop shoes and complaining because you have to wear sneakers.

I think we find a great deal of balance in GW2 PvP though meta and ANet has been good in the past with keeping the unbalanced maps out of Tournament rotation. Overall I don’t have a lot of complaints.

I expect nothing less from a guardian. You guys are the golden boys! OF COURSE you’re going to say balance is ok, you’re benefiting from it!

…but it’s not…

Balance is atrocious. Warriors and thieves got NOTHING this expansion.

Thief died, warrior is pre-hot thief. Welcome to the bottom of the barrel, we were dropped out.

JTGuevara.9018:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Lots of talk about balance following HoT. Here’s my take on it-
Balance for eSport comes down to balance in classes and balance in environments/arenas. GW2 actually does both quite well. Balance for arenas comes from consistency. Minor variations map to map are allowed, but overall the core mechanics should be identical and VERY CONSISTENT between maps. The map play mechanics define the game being played for which the team’s collective skill is being leveled for the win or loss. Consistent maps are probably the most important aspect of good esport.

Class balance comes from the developer though nerfs and buffs, but also from the community though meta builds. If you choose to run an inferior Guardian build that you slapped together yourself against a team with a Dragon Hunter that owns you then you are the problem, the balance of the game isn’t. Consider that: You had access to the current meta, you have access to all weapon, armor mods and max stats. Not playing a meta build and screaming things are not balanced is ridiculous. It would be like trying to play basketball in flip-flop shoes and complaining because you have to wear sneakers.

I think we find a great deal of balance in GW2 PvP though meta and ANet has been good in the past with keeping the unbalanced maps out of Tournament rotation. Overall I don’t have a lot of complaints.

I expect nothing less from a guardian. You guys are the golden boys! OF COURSE you’re going to say balance is ok, you’re benefiting from it!

…but it’s not…

Balance is atrocious. Warriors and thieves got NOTHING this expansion.

This comment actually made me laugh only because it is true. I do think Guardian’s have long been ArenaNet’s secret (or perhaps not so secret) favorite class. From the build up of “blue mace lady” (those around before 2012 anticipating this game know what I’m talking about) to now, Guardian seems to embody the jack-of-all-trades spirit better than the rest.

I agree Warriors deserved something better than Berserker (even the name is more generic than Dragon Hunter), but Daredevil actually isn’t bad. PS My core game main was a Guardian and I seldom play on him anymore. Most of time in PvP since HoT has been on a Herald or most recently Scrapper. The DH meta trapper can work great but it’s not really OP. It depends what it’s going up against. Herald (Power Shiro) is probably the one that’s going to get the biggest nerf.

The Devs can balance their game about as good as Governments are at balancing thier budgets.

Just not going to happen.