Guild Wars 2

Hi there,
I would like to discuss the balance in sPvP.
I played a lot of it with my guardian but stopped playing the game a few months ago. I wouldn’t describe myself as an expert but neither as a noob.
Back then I enjoyed the game very much and no profession seemed really OP.
This week I decided to pick GW2 up again and enjoy my favorite part of the game: sPvP.
After a few days warming back up I realized that previous build I enjoyed didn’t quite cut it. So I adapted, changed things around, looked up the internet for advises and tried the best I can. But one thing became obvious: the balance is completely broken!
Given that there is 2 maybe 3 professions that are trampling the rest I ask this:
Is there any point playing the game if you don’t play one of these professions?

Apparently the answer from the community is no given that I group made up of more than 50% warriors. On another note broken balance also means poor diversity and duller games.
What do you guys think?

I’m probably not going to sPvP much more from now but I was thinking of filling in a bug report just for the laugh: “exploitable bug, warrior is op”
Peace

No it isn’t worth playing. Everyone rolls builds that I neither know nor care to learn how to deal with cheese OP warriors while guardians are worst class ever and nobody rolls them.

You should uninstall.

Last night I was in a solo queue and ended up on a team with 3 thieves (including me). The other two began lamenting in team chat that we were doomed, we could never win with 3 thieves, etc.

We won something like 500 to 180.

Pick a class you like. Learn it, play it, have fun.

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

^ 15char

Unless you play for fun not for win.

I play for fun, that’s why having to be restricted to certain professions or build in order to put up a fight is so frustrating
I’ll give it a try with my ranger for a bit and maybe try the necro, it’s the only one I haven’t played, it might be fun.

Stein.5934:

Hi there,
I would like to discuss the balance in sPvP.
I played a lot of it with my guardian but stopped playing the game a few months ago. I wouldn’t describe myself as an expert but neither as a noob.
Back then I enjoyed the game very much and no profession seemed really OP.
This week I decided to pick GW2 up again and enjoy my favorite part of the game: sPvP.
After a few days warming back up I realized that previous build I enjoyed didn’t quite cut it. So I adapted, changed things around, looked up the internet for advises and tried the best I can. But one thing became obvious: the balance is completely broken!
Given that there is 2 maybe 3 professions that are trampling the rest I ask this:
Is there any point playing the game if you don’t play one of these professions?

Apparently the answer from the community is no given that I group made up of more than 50% warriors. On another note broken balance also means poor diversity and duller games.
What do you guys think?

I’m probably not going to sPvP much more from now but I was thinking of filling in a bug report just for the laugh: “exploitable bug, warrior is op”
Peace

Normally i’m extremely positive, lately I’ve been fed up but right here and now in this thread I need to express that if you believe everything you read on the forums then you have a lot of learning to do.

To help you understand, jump on the specific class forums that you think are OP and read about them whinging. It won’t take long for you to realize that everyone feels hardly done by. People that enjoy their class/game rarely come to the forums so don’t bother looking for positive threads.

Currently, in my opinion there is a feel of paper, scissors rock. Not by class but by build. Each build can be OP in its own way but will always be weak to another build its the design of the game (Note, I said build NOT class and I said weak not impossible to beat).

Play the class you enjoy, stick to it, practice it and if you want to be the best you will/can be.

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

It might be hard but not impossible, lose and lose again until you l2win.

aussieheals.6843:

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

It might be hard but not impossible, lose and lose again until you l2win.

Therw is a pretty distinct difference between winning a 1v1 or winning a spvp match.Without the most cheesy build existent there is almost no possibility to win against the ones that use them.Kills dont count in spvp and no class is able to kill a bubker on a point fast enough to not be floded by his help.It’s simply impossible if the guard (im just throwing 1 exmplw of clas here)runs full bunker and the worst problem is that if you run zerk you have the higher probability to lose the fight anyway.

.Holding points is what counts in spvp so any builf that is by a marging better at it, will be bound to be extremely powerfull.Note that personal score (and kills) does not count anymore to your character progression e either.Those 500 points is all it counts.

mini.6018:

aussieheals.6843:

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

It might be hard but not impossible, lose and lose again until you l2win.

Therw is a pretty distinct difference between winning a 1v1 or winning a spvp match.Without the most cheesy build existent there is almost no possibility to win against the ones that use them.Kills dont count in spvp and no class is able to kill a bubker on a point fast enough to not be floded by his help.It’s simply impossible if the guard (im just throwing 1 exmplw of clas here)runs full bunker and the worst problem is that if you run zerk you have the higher probability to lose the fight anyway.

.Holding points is what counts in spvp so any builf that is by a marging better at it, will be bound to be extremely powerfull.Note that personal score (and kills) does not count anymore to your character progression e either.Those 500 points is all it counts.

Actually once you reach top (and when there were multiple guilds) the cheese running guilds often lost to none cheese running guilds. Why? Because of the layout of the map, the current meta as an example maybe a really strong condi build – that equates to a really strong team fight. How do you beat that? Play 3 points instead of 2. As much as i’m bored of conquest it makes it possible for any comp to win as long as you control the flow of the match. Quite often keeping control comes from winning your 1v1s and even when disadvantaged those who are pro at their class and understand their opponent will dominate the other.

p.s. condi meta was an example…

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

Pretty much……

TheGuy.3568:

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

Pretty much……

Practice your dodge rolls

Walorx.5129:

No. The game is dominated by builds, not skill. No point in playing to win if you don’t use the cheesiest specs possible.

#SadStateOfTheGame

There is a huge difference between being able to manage to play a “cheesy” build, and mastering it!

Compare a random Hambow Warrior to someone like R O M and you can see the amount of skill involved. R O M will melt the other warriors face in no time.

When you are competing in a marathon you can see at which point you are out of breath. To see the skill difference in a video game is completely different. Everybody thinks that’s so easy, everybody can pull that off, but there is a reason, why some guys are able to win the ESL tournaments, and we are not.

The right profession/build choice can give you an edge, but not a free win.

Guardian is one of the professions who is in a really good spot, bunker/support is nearly a must-have, but even though, a dps guard is viable, and be even more so with the upcoming patch on 10th of December.

Actually once you reach top

With the actual system and the broken teams it’s hard.

Problem is, no one wants to defend points, because no one wants to be a bunker. Why ? Funniest to kill people in mid, instead of bunker your point.

Sometimes I roll guardian, but what can I do against a full zerker team ? …

I feel like the current meta is : Full full berzerk condi.

Without the most cheesy build existent there is almost no possibility to win against the ones that use them.

For example tank vs full condi, is hard. Why ? Cuz the tank have no damage, and the zerker will kill you slowly with his bunch of condi that you can’t clean.

All I know is that, at least at my relatively low level, the games are not dominated by only a couple of classes. Maybe that’s true at the top, and if so, it should be addressed.

Last night it seemed like half the players on both teams in solo queue were mesmers.. and they were all running different types of builds.

I’ve competed at THE HIGHEST LEVEL in tournaments. I’ve competed in all the big tournaments in Guild Wars 2 (never won, but still). I can personally say that once your mechanics are refined, it all comes down who has the better build or who’s build counters who. Having properly timed dodges etc make no difference because 90% of the cheese is spammable. Sorry to break it to you guys, but if you are playing to win a match, you are holding your team back if you aren’t using a gimmicky build.

Walorx.5129:

I’ve competed at THE HIGHEST LEVEL in tournaments. I’ve competed in all the big tournaments in Guild Wars 2 (never won, but still). I can personally say that once your mechanics are refined, it all comes down who has the better build or who’s build counters who. Having properly timed dodges etc make no difference because 90% of the cheese is spammable. Sorry to break it to you guys, but if you are playing to win a match, you are holding your team back if you aren’t using a gimmicky build.

Voz you of all people should know that even at top level an intelligent split will win the game over a cheese comp. Again I will reference the condi meta as it has low mobility & splitting points rather than the ‘all in brawl’ at mid will hard counter.

Strategy plays a bigger role than cheese, at least in conquest, glhf for deathmatch.

EDIT: The only thing that worries me now (admittedly) is the sneaky splits and backcaps are A LOT harder with the new map reveals. I thought this was a good idea for spvp but not tpvp.

Yuki.1765:

Actually once you reach top

With the actual system and the broken teams it’s hard.

Problem is, no one wants to defend points, because no one wants to be a bunker. Why ? Funniest to kill people in mid, instead of bunker your point.

Sometimes I roll guardian, but what can I do against a full zerker team ? …

I feel like the current meta is : Full full berzerk condi.

Without the most cheesy build existent there is almost no possibility to win against the ones that use them.

For example tank vs full condi, is hard. Why ? Cuz the tank have no damage, and the zerker will kill you slowly with his bunch of condi that you can’t clean.

Solo Queue isn’t the top, just sayn

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

Do you guys remember PZ, they might of ran cheese comps but so did a million other guilds. Cheese wasn’t the main reason they won 99% of the time, it was synergy, strategy and personal skill. Yes, cheese helped but I said it once I’ll say it again it isn’t the main problem.

I think the reason this issue is popping up so much is because of solo queue as a ‘competitive’ game type where there isn’t much team play. My two cents worth would be to remove this and add 2v2 area for quick queue’s equal playing grounds with voip and a fair go.

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

What he means is, anyone can be a full bunker and dish out mad DPS which makes for a very low-risk, high-reward type of gameplay. This type of play throws the meta out of whack and results in what we have now. Unfortunately, it’s just the state of the game atm. I personally can’t wait for the 10th, especially Diamond Skin. This should HOPEFULLY push the meta into a more bursty power one.

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

i just had a game against 2 spirit rangers and a mm necro. Do you think it was worth it?

This game is a joke, every single meta build is a joke. I don’t think i have ever had such a frustrating pvp experience as I’m having in this game currently. And arena net won’t do anything about it, it’s pretty clear that the game is in the direction they wan’t it to be, or else they wouldn’t be adding another spirit and more passive heals and traits. This game is dead.

PS: Can’t wait for deathmatch to show even more how severe the balance problems of this game are.

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

Would you really consider your argument as long term problem that cheese will always be uncounterable? Also, can always switch characters before the match starts to hard counter the quite obvious builds your going to face. This is all apart of the strategy too.

Balanced comps still beat cheese comps in team queue. You no longer can autopilot to win though. You need to use your head and counterplay well.

ahuba.6430:

i just had a game against 2 spirit rangers and a mm necro. Do you think it was worth it?

This game is a joke, every single meta build is a joke. I don’t think i have ever had such a frustrating pvp experience as I’m having in this game currently. And arena net won’t do anything about it, it’s pretty clear that the game is in the direction they wan’t it to be, or else they wouldn’t be adding another spirit and more passive heals and traits. This game is dead.

PS: Can’t wait for deathmatch to show even more how severe the balance problems of this game are.

I’m guessing this was a solo queue rather than a team queue because there are multiple hard counters to all those builds. As I said before I personally don’t agree with solo queue, at least as a ‘serious’ mode of competition.

Edit: Although I half agree with what you saying about deathmatch you do need to take into account that your not going to need to stand on a point and therefore aoe skills are going to be half as effective reducing the issue with condi warriors, spirit rangers etc. It will be really interesting to see what meta builds emerge in this state.

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

Would you really consider your argument as long term problem that cheese will always be uncounterable? Also, i’m not sure if you noticed or not but you can switch characters before the match starts to hard counter the quite obvious builds your going to face. This would be classed as strategy too and used often by top teams :P

Long term? Probably not, I’m just speaking for the moment. It’d also be a hard task to find a specific countercomp for the aforementioned team. Maybe something completely different that nobody has devised yet is a counter. But the simple fact that there needs to be countercomps is stupid in itself. The ability to outplay your opponents should always be available and with an essential comp of 4 bunkers(3 of which are pretty much dps) and a dps which can disengage whenever it wants with high mobility (sd thief), it’s pretty hard to outplay, other than if you just play the exact same comp yourself.

Edit: Not many people really switch classes before games anymore. I’d honestly advise you to get back on track with mist league which seems to have disappeared for some reason instead of trying to offer people advice in a game which you don’t seem well versed in anymore.

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

Would you really consider your argument as long term problem that cheese will always be uncounterable? Also, i’m not sure if you noticed or not but you can switch characters before the match starts to hard counter the quite obvious builds your going to face. This would be classed as strategy too and used often by top teams :P

Long term? Probably not, I’m just speaking for the moment. It’d also be a hard task to find a specific countercomp for the aforementioned team. Maybe something completely different that nobody has devised yet is a counter. But the simple fact that there needs to be countercomps is stupid in itself. The ability to outplay your opponents should always be available and with an essential comp of 4 bunkers(3 of which are pretty much dps) and a dps which can disengage whenever it wants with high mobility (sd thief), it’s pretty hard to outplay, other than if you just play the exact same comp yourself.

Edit: Not many people really switch classes before games anymore. I’d honestly advise you to get back on track with mist league which seems to have disappeared for some reason instead of trying to offer people advice in a game which you don’t seem well versed in anymore.

Although that last part could have been said nicer, I completely agree.

Walorx.5129:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

Would you really consider your argument as long term problem that cheese will always be uncounterable? Also, i’m not sure if you noticed or not but you can switch characters before the match starts to hard counter the quite obvious builds your going to face. This would be classed as strategy too and used often by top teams :P

Long term? Probably not, I’m just speaking for the moment. It’d also be a hard task to find a specific countercomp for the aforementioned team. Maybe something completely different that nobody has devised yet is a counter. But the simple fact that there needs to be countercomps is stupid in itself. The ability to outplay your opponents should always be available and with an essential comp of 4 bunkers(3 of which are pretty much dps) and a dps which can disengage whenever it wants with high mobility (sd thief), it’s pretty hard to outplay, other than if you just play the exact same comp yourself.

Edit: Not many people really switch classes before games anymore. I’d honestly advise you to get back on track with mist league which seems to have disappeared for some reason instead of trying to offer people advice in a game which you don’t seem well versed in anymore.

Although that last part could have been said nicer, I completely agree.

I have no nice words for Aussie, I could have been much ruder in my response but I’ll refrain.

The balance in this game has been bad since beta, I thought for sure we were headed for the golden age of balance with small steps on dec 10th, and then anet was all like

BUT WAIIT THERE’S MORE

BAM Completely ridiculous heal skills no one bothered to test since they probably wouldn’t have made it past any good r&d round based on concept alone.

Oh so you wanna take warrior sustain healing.. which the community has denounced completely, which makes warrior one of the easiest classes to achieve high results with skill cieling=Skill floor wombo combo, and give it to Phantasm mesmer one of the lowest skill required most AI dependant builds available? Oh and then buff phantasm mesmer by moving traits around? Cool Story Bro.

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

Would you really consider your argument as long term problem that cheese will always be uncounterable? Also, i’m not sure if you noticed or not but you can switch characters before the match starts to hard counter the quite obvious builds your going to face. This would be classed as strategy too and used often by top teams :P

Long term? Probably not, I’m just speaking for the moment. It’d also be a hard task to find a specific countercomp for the aforementioned team. Maybe something completely different that nobody has devised yet is a counter. But the simple fact that there needs to be countercomps is stupid in itself. The ability to outplay your opponents should always be available and with an essential comp of 4 bunkers(3 of which are pretty much dps) and a dps which can disengage whenever it wants with high mobility (sd thief), it’s pretty hard to outplay, other than if you just play the exact same comp yourself.

So agreeing as this is a short term solution I can’t make much sense of your argument seeing as we have an incoming patch in a few days. Don’t get me wrong I don’t enjoy the meta myself and think it is sucking the fun out of the game but that’s not what we are discussing here.

Oblivion.8307:

Edit: Not many people really switch classes before games anymore. I’d honestly advise you to get back on track with mist league which seems to have disappeared for some reason instead of trying to offer people advice in a game which you don’t seem well versed in anymore.

I deserve the stab as I gave you an unnessary one in my last comment. But please sir I just got back into the game in the past two weeks and ranked past you before trolling. Oh did I mention it was with a none OP / Meta duel sword ranger?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2GqZwAtatg

Oblivion.8307:

Walorx.5129:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

aussieheals.6843:

Oblivion.8307:

Aussie please, stop. The balance is currently in an awful state realistically. The sad fact is a dps warrior is considered more or less of a bunker in a comp.

Don’t target it first, bring group condi removal which you should be anyways.

There are no ‘viable’ targets anymore to really burst down. Look at cheese mode’s comp in the previous ESL tournament, 2 warriors/guard/sd thief/ranger. There really isn’t a viable target in this 5 man comp that you can engage on, lol.

edit: risk/reward is very skewed in terms of builds right now.

Would you really consider your argument as long term problem that cheese will always be uncounterable? Also, i’m not sure if you noticed or not but you can switch characters before the match starts to hard counter the quite obvious builds your going to face. This would be classed as strategy too and used often by top teams :P

Long term? Probably not, I’m just speaking for the moment. It’d also be a hard task to find a specific countercomp for the aforementioned team. Maybe something completely different that nobody has devised yet is a counter. But the simple fact that there needs to be countercomps is stupid in itself. The ability to outplay your opponents should always be available and with an essential comp of 4 bunkers(3 of which are pretty much dps) and a dps which can disengage whenever it wants with high mobility (sd thief), it’s pretty hard to outplay, other than if you just play the exact same comp yourself.

Edit: Not many people really switch classes before games anymore. I’d honestly advise you to get back on track with mist league which seems to have disappeared for some reason instead of trying to offer people advice in a game which you don’t seem well versed in anymore.

Although that last part could have been said nicer, I completely agree.

I have no nice words for Aussie, I could have been much ruder in my response but I’ll refrain.

I share your frustration with Mist League. I put countless hours days/weeks months and money into that like you wouldn’t believe. I want this game to succeed arguably more than any other. But guess what, there are no teams, and to help the community grow when new people joining these forums looking for constructive advise how about giving that rather than doom and gloom. Before venting look at the big picture.

EDIT: Not only did I put countless hours into that but so did MANY others. They gave up there ONLY Free time, there money there gold and there heart. As soon as I can I am either take back off when the game picks up or end it in a honorable fashion. With that you have my word.

Darnis.4056:

Oh so you wanna take warrior sustain healing.. which the community has denounced completely, which makes warrior one of the easiest classes to achieve high results with skill cieling=Skill floor wombo combo,

It wouldn’t surprise me if warriors were purposely made OP for a while after being so under powered that they were the first thing anyone targeted in PvP and as a second positive in encouraging people to play warrior again.

Nonetheless the OP build is about to be nerfed.

I think this conversation is a bit sterile.
Aussie you’re talking about how good the game CAN be while others are pointing out major flaws that ARE in the game. I think most people know Guild Wars pvp can be great, that’s why we find these flaws so frustrating.
Also you’re pointing out that winning is possible against cheesy builds but what many of us are saying it that it is not fun to play. Again a conversation that does not hit the mark as some are talking about winning while others about enjoying the game…
I think the main argument here is that personnal skill, teamwork and builds are all an important part of the game, the problem is that, in soloQ, builds outweight the others components by a lot.
And finally I think that someones that argues that no build is OP ought not to post a video entitled “OP Solo Q Ranger Build” to make his point…