Guild Wars 2

Looking at the bonuses given by the celestial amulet it’s easy to see that it gives a much larger overall bonus. For a game that claims balance, this is quite an unbalanced amulet. I can see why it’s so ingrained in the meta. Please balance this amulet so it gives a comparable bonus to the other amulets.

Will people ever realize you need to look at output of the amulet and not just the amount of points?

when will people learn that it’s not their job to 1v1 builds that were designed to hold a node, especially not with berserker.

the amulet is totally fine, in fact it’s even only good on 3 classes…

Jekkt.6045:

when will people learn that it’s not their job to 1v1 builds that were designed to hold a node, especially not with berserker.

the amulet is totally fine, in fact it’s even only good on 3 classes…

Well 3 classes out of 8 it’s about the 40%, it’s still the most used amulet in the current meta, not saying it’s OP but not even close to balanced when compare the other 9 pvp amulets

Kolly.9872:

Jekkt.6045:

when will people learn that it’s not their job to 1v1 builds that were designed to hold a node, especially not with berserker.

the amulet is totally fine, in fact it’s even only good on 3 classes…

Well 3 classes out of 8 it’s about the 40%, it’s still the most used amulet in the current meta, not saying it’s OP but not even close to balanced when compare the other 9 pvp amulets

Why didn’t anyone make that argument against Berserker when it was used by like 80% lol…

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

Actually Anet nerfed zerker amulet with the introdution of ferocity

no they didn’t nerf ferocity in pvp.

Kolly.9872:

Actually Anet nerfed zerker amulet with the introdution of ferocity

No they didn’t, ferocity has a stronger effect in PVP because they wanted the numbers to stay about the same, in sPVP they didn’t feel crit needed a change.

The problem lies somewhere else.

HEALING.

Just look at the top 3 class that use Cele, what capable of healing do they have with the combination of Cele?

Jekkt.6045:

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

Lol. No one plays celestial ranger on a serious level.

SobeSoul.6910:

Jekkt.6045:

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

Lol. No one plays celestial ranger on a serious level.

doesn’t matter for this comparison.

Jekkt.6045:

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

ok 4 classes make use of cele and 6 of berserk amulet, looking at an average team composition I’d say that those 2 amulet are equally distributed and far above every other amulet in the game. Aka there’s a balance problem. This topic is about balance, I’m not saying Celestial is OP but only to find a reason to why other 8 out of 10 amulet are so underused compared to the other 2

because celestial holds nodes and heal allies while berserk kills players to get nodes.

condi specs are just not a big part of the meta anymore because celestial support happens to have a good amount of team cleanses and cleric is less offensive than celestial.

Siva Mira.3546:

The problem lies somewhere else.

HEALING.

Just look at the top 3 class that use Cele, what capable of healing do they have with the combination of Cele?

False every meta has a counter, celes counter are not in good shape and popular enough add turret engi in the mix you got yourself a dominant meta. If you ever fought a turret engi on condition spec and was about to win and ops shoutbow jumps in you know it’s gg even if 2 more of your team come to help.

Conditions and boon hate need to make a comeback.

I feel like celestial is in a good place right now.
They already nerfed might stacking by toning down the most readily available sources of might. To make good use of celestial, a class needs:
-high uptime on a large amount of might stacks.
-spamable healing effects and/or high regeneration uptime.
-AoE skills with good physical damage and high condi pressure.

The right amulet for the right play style. If you want to run celestial, you have to make it count. Celestial literally forces you to go balls deep, roll over the opponent with lots of pressure or die trying… Else why are you running celestial in the first place? If you spend all the game nuking single targets from a distance, why are you using celestial then?

Before the might nerf, celestial really was broken. Right now, it seems to be in the right spot.

as i mentioned before, neither ele nor engi rely on might stacking anymore and usually have 5 or less in a fight. only warrior is still stacking might effectively.

celestial requires a number of conditions, direct damage skills, frequent healing, durability, cleansing and disengages to refill your hp.

this is the reason why war engi and ele are good with celestial and thief mesmer ranger necro guardian aren’t.

- thief, no burning, only bleed and torment, no good direct damage on p/d.

- necro, bad mobility and bad healing.

- ranger, healing is not frequent enough and the weapons that have condis suck in direct damage.

- mesmer, weakness to conditions and not the best healing appart from mantras. mesmer is bad on point aswell.

- guardian has the least access to conditions, bad ooc mobility and while the class has access to meditation heals they scale badly with healing power and are on a long cooldown.

Kolly.9872:

Actually Anet nerfed zerker amulet with the introdution of ferocity

On the contrary – they buffed zerker amulet and nerfed the crit.dmg/ferocity trait line.

Before the line gave 30 and zerker 15+5=20 , now zerker gives 30 and the traits 20% crit dmg.
You can also look at as a bit of a nerf to non zerker amulets like barbarian.
So mostly zerker is must, but theres more freedom with traits.

Might stacking needs to be balanced across the professions. Either that or cut in half points wise. Might stacking is the crutch allowing cele to be so powerful.

It’s true, the problem isn’t might stacking or celestial. It’s the classes themselves. Cele Engi would be more balanced if it didn’t have a frame eater and 16 second shield or stun break every 23 seconds.

D/D Ele would be balanced if it couldn’t z-axis teleport and have perma-vigor + protection.

Just pathetic. Even shoutbow is balanced compared to those and shoutbow is easy and effective.

BlackTruth.6813:

Just pathetic. Even shoutbow is balanced compared to those and shoutbow is easy and effective.

lol

On a second thought, I’m all for nerfing the celestial amulet now. Nerf it to the ground, remove it from the game.
So people stop using celestial amulets, start using other amulets and finally stop complaining about turrets.

naphack.9346:

On a second thought, I’m all for nerfing the celestial amulet now. Nerf it to the ground, remove it from the game.
So people stop using celestial amulets, start using other amulets and finally stop complaining about turrets.

I don’t understand how you got from point A to point B. O.O

ronpierce.2760:

naphack.9346:

On a second thought, I’m all for nerfing the celestial amulet now. Nerf it to the ground, remove it from the game.
So people stop using celestial amulets, start using other amulets and finally stop complaining about turrets.

I don’t understand how you got from point A to point B. O.O

As of now, the only classes, which can reliably clear a turret engi in a 1v1 are rangers, engineers, and to some degree, mesmers. The only classes, which can reliably clear the point in a 2v1 are, again, mesmer(this time definitely… A mesmer with someone exerting pressure on point will melt the turreteer), ranger and engineer. And then there is the necromancer. Terrormancer easily clears the point 2v1, powermancer needs to burn through lich form to achieve it.

Some of the classes, which could in theory be strong against a turret engi and add to the list of 2v1 wins(elementalist, warrior) can’t do so, when they run celestial. They got huge amounts of pressure, but not enough punch to reliably finish the job. Well, still, if you couple a celestial ele with a zerk mesmer, the point will be clear in no time.
Now if they went back to either high power builds or high condi builds, the amount of classes, which can reliably dispatch a turret engi in a 2v1 situation before rotations come around would go up from 3(4) to 5(6).
This would only leave guardians and thieves as classes, which don’t have the tools to fight turrets. And even then only because condi thief isn’t really meta. Caltrops could in theory really eat a turret engi.

Also even if we are in a situation where guards and thieves can’t contest the point, just don’t bring a combination of guardian and thief to clear the point… Bring a mesmer with your guard.

SobeSoul.6910:

Jekkt.6045:

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

Lol. No one plays celestial ranger on a serious level.

If that is the argument you run with here, then no one would have any business posting in balance discussion before first proving they can compete on a serious level.

BlackTruth.6813:

It’s true, the problem isn’t might stacking or celestial. It’s the classes themselves. Cele Engi would be more balanced if it didn’t have a frame eater and 16 second shield or stun break every 23 seconds.

D/D Ele would be balanced if it couldn’t z-axis teleport and have perma-vigor + protection.

Just pathetic. Even shoutbow is balanced compared to those and shoutbow is easy and effective.

-Perma vigor/dodge:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Recovery +
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

Throw in an energy sigil for the lol and end result = 13-14 dodges in a row

-Steal used as stunbreaker

-Spammable teleports that ignore z-axis and LoS ( thieves can reach areas otherwise denied to ele using LF)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Return
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Signet

All three of them not only can act like Lightning Flash, but they will greatly outperform it and for lower CD

-Protection
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

Ever heard about defensive mechanisms? Well it’s something that each profession possess in equal measure, some have stealth..others have protection, deal with it as we deal with perma invisible gankers

Honestly how can a thief talk about balance?

-edit- Food for thought :

Withdraw + vigorous recovery = 5s vigor every 15s
Steal + bountiful theft = 10s vigor every 25s
Feline grace + energy sigil = 4 dodges in a row

..and there is disabling shot that count as evasion..kkty

Evasion Thief is a thing.
But the QQ about Cele continues.
The only reason for the QQ is people still do not understand when to do what vs a cele user, they are a jack of all trades but only when cooldowns are down or they are in the incorrect attunment.

Stop SPAMALLDASKILLS in PvP and use them at the correct times and all of these supposed imbalanced stats/classes/build will come back to skill.

Everyone who says that Celestial is balanced… man I can’t find words without being deleted from this forum haha. Play something other than the Meta sh**, Celestial is OP.
Remove the Healing and we are in.

MandJ.8965:

Everyone who says that Celestial is balanced… man I can’t find words without being deleted from this forum haha. Play something other than the Meta sh**, Celestial is OP.
Remove the Healing and we are in.

You’re overestimating what 400 healing is really doing to the fight. There isn’t anything wrong with Cele, 3 builds (and minor variants) are strong with it, but because of how well they scale with all stats and their general power as it stands. Hence why the other 5 classes (and other builds of the same class) don’t really use the amulet. You’re putting emphasis on the wrong thing, and its proven time and time again when its basically pointless for anyone but a few select builds. The builds are too strong, not the amulet.

ronpierce.2760:

MandJ.8965:

Everyone who says that Celestial is balanced… man I can’t find words without being deleted from this forum haha. Play something other than the Meta sh**, Celestial is OP.
Remove the Healing and we are in.

You’re overestimating what 400 healing is really doing to the fight. There isn’t anything wrong with Cele, 3 builds (and minor variants) are strong with it, but because of how well they scale with all stats and their general power as it stands. Hence why the other 5 classes (and other builds of the same class) don’t really use the amulet. You’re putting emphasis on the wrong thing, and its proven time and time again when its basically pointless for anyone but a few select builds. The builds are too strong, not the amulet.

Right, and the builds would be balanced if they remove the healing power. Hell, even a good ele with celestial can go and make coffee when you try to burst him down, he will just laugh and run away, and comes back with full hp a few seconds later. Maybe yes, elementalist is broken anyway, but you can play celestial mesmer too and it is hard to beat it.
To nerf those builds, you must nerf celestial, because nerfing the classes would nerf other builds too.

MandJ.8965:

ronpierce.2760:

MandJ.8965:

Everyone who says that Celestial is balanced… man I can’t find words without being deleted from this forum haha. Play something other than the Meta sh**, Celestial is OP.
Remove the Healing and we are in.

You’re overestimating what 400 healing is really doing to the fight. There isn’t anything wrong with Cele, 3 builds (and minor variants) are strong with it, but because of how well they scale with all stats and their general power as it stands. Hence why the other 5 classes (and other builds of the same class) don’t really use the amulet. You’re putting emphasis on the wrong thing, and its proven time and time again when its basically pointless for anyone but a few select builds. The builds are too strong, not the amulet.

Right, and the builds would be balanced if they remove the healing power. Hell, even a good ele with celestial can go and make coffee when you try to burst him down, he will just laugh and run away, and comes back with full hp a few seconds later. Maybe yes, elementalist is broken anyway, but you can play celestial mesmer too and it is hard to beat it.
To nerf those builds, you must nerf celestial, because nerfing the classes would nerf other builds too.

Some might argue that’s the first needed step. Grenade engineer has dominated forever, it actually hurts its own diversity. IP/Grenadeer builds are in general, very powerful. Longbow (Unfortunately is basically mandatory to do okay in spvp) but regardless, still, a very powerful tool. Arcana is absolutely broken OP AND it doesn’t allow for much flexibility for the elementalist. The stat numbers for each stat are honestly not that large, its definitely build mechanics that takes advantage of Celestial so well, not the stats alone that cause the problems.

They should just remove the celestial amulet from PvP instead of balancing it. It would bring some diversity and higher skill requirement into PvP.

ITT: My beserker amulet can’t beat this cele amulet on three classes.