Guild Wars 2

Med.6150:

I don’t know whether people understand that S/D as a set is much, much weaker in terms of survivability than D/P. All people see are S/D thieves with 30 in acrobatics dodging left and right. Guess what, you can spec 30 into acrobatics with D/P too. Try it and you will understand that the extra evade from FS isn’t exactly stronger than even a blind.

Having limited stealth capabilities, no blind and daze on demand, this weapon set needs to have that evade and it can not cost more than 3 (and still without the boon steal it would never have a shot), because else it’d not be in line with say Death Blossom or Disabling Shot (both evades last longer). The damage from larcenous, as posted above is pretty much up there with heartseeker and shadowshot as well.

If you take the boon stealing off this weapon set, there’s realistcally no point in utilizing it. Dropping it to a single boon steal isn’t going to shut up anybody either as it’s still “spammable”, according to some people.

What exactly stop thief from using a “stealth” based set as second weapon set?
So sword got no blind or daze on demand?…KK GG to you, it’s your victory

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tactical_Strike

Tactical strike isnt on demand. It has to be set-up via stealth ergo, CnD.
Unless someones dropping Blinding Powder, it’ll never be on demand.
It’s about as “on demand” as Backstab in a /D set. Which in terms of an actual interrupt, can be unwieldy at times.

Med.6150:

I don’t know whether people understand that S/D as a set is much, much weaker in terms of survivability than D/P. All people see are S/D thieves with 30 in acrobatics dodging left and right. Guess what, you can spec 30 into acrobatics with D/P too. Try it and you will understand that the extra evade from FS isn’t exactly stronger than even a blind.

Having limited stealth capabilities, no blind and daze on demand, this weapon set needs to have that evade and it can not cost more than 3 (and still without the boon steal it would never have a shot), because else it’d not be in line with say Death Blossom or Disabling Shot (both evades last longer). The damage from larcenous, as posted above is pretty much up there with heartseeker and shadowshot as well.

If you take the boon stealing off this weapon set, there’s realistcally no point in utilizing it. Dropping it to a single boon steal isn’t going to shut up anybody either as it’s still “spammable”, according to some people.

The evade isn’t the problematic part of S/D survivability. It’s Infiltrator’s Strike and Shadow Return. A 1200 backport with stunbreak on a weaponskill with 0 cooldown makes you basically immune to stuns. A D/P thief getting a 2-3s stun, and not having his stunbreak ready is dead.
A sword thief doesn’t even have to take a stunbreak utility, and would still break way more stuns than the D/P thief.
It’s like Phase Retreat… just even better. A sword thief who doesn’t want to get killed does not get killed. They just get killed if they make a risky move, and try to stay for too long, or just use all their initiative on other skills.
If they don’t do that, they will not die. They might have to retreat, but they will not die.

And yes, that is a problem since release.

Someone asked whats the difference in balance between someone maintaining 20 stacks of might and someone stealing them.

Ill give you a hint: Might stacking (or high boon stacking builds in general) devote their build and equipment for that purpose. For example as the infamous HGH i have to cover my entire armor with might increasing runes (instead of for example a runeset cleansing all conditions and giving you all boons when you use your 45 sec recharging elite) and use sigil of battle (instead of, i dunno sigil of earth, fire or air?). Furthermore i have to bring a grandmaster trait giving me might when i use utilities i otherwise wouldn’t bring (sacrificing a weapon slot for every elixir) and use a generally inferior heal (which is a part of the might stacking. Together with 30% additional boon duration. I also have to bring a master trait giving me 3 stacks of might when using my heal skill.

That gives you an idea of the investment for those 20+ might stacks (this level achieved after a short while in combat, with your heal, a utility skill and 2 of your class mechanic skills on cooldown).

Now all the thief have to do is use an unblockable rather decent damaging skill with no recharge to not only gain the same level of might, but rip everything from you.

But you know what the worst thing is?

He would spam that skill anyways even if you aren’t running any boons. If i use a magnet, big ol bomb or slick shoes on a target with stability i am stupid, if i spam a boon stealing skill on a target without boons i am a thief.

^ That’s because they decided to throw the boon steal from the FS evade which does Near no damage to LS which does the bulk of the damage. Hence LS is incredibly rewarding to hit, disproportionately so and lets you see a warrior at 6k health in shield block and say screw it and poke him death with LS anyways. Where as prior since FS did crap damage You’d have to blow 8-12 ini by no exaggeration to drop a warrior in Shield block dead, which may allow him to survive. Lulzy now that it happens for 4.
S/D needs boosts, LS is too rewarding.
Inb4Iamwrong.

Personally I don’t want to see any knee jerk nerfs like the 40s RTL, I don’t want to see them anymore on any profession, I don’t care about the boon stealing, if Anet wants anti-bunker its’s fine for me, I’m not bunker anyway.

First of all a 1200 range teleport is absurd, for 3 ini it should be max 900 range, I believe a spammable stun breaker should already be enough, second they need to increase the ini cost of FS.

I don’t think to be asking too much

Sword port is fairly costly in Initiative when spamming and the second part can be easily dodged since it requires a 1 second cast and has an obvious animation.

The sword port was already “nerfed” in a sense since it had its range brought down to earth at 1200 instead of unlimited. The stun breaker requires the thief to spend 5 total initiative and prevents her from from using the root portion of the ability

Sword also hits noticeably softer than dagger imo.

Hexs.8015:

Sword port is fairly costly in Initiative when spamming and the second part can be easily dodged since it requires a 1 second cast and has an obvious animation.

The sword port was already “nerfed” in a sense since it had its range brought down to earth at 1200 instead of unlimited. The stun breaker requires the thief to spend 5 total initiative and prevents her from from using the root portion of the ability

Sword also hits noticeably softer than dagger imo.

Shadow Return is instant. It is a stunbreak. All stunbreaks are instant. You cannot cast non instant skills during stun as you might know. It doesn’t even attack. And you also don’t have to hit with Infiltrator’s Strike. Shadow Return will always be available, with or without a hit of Infiltrator’s Strike. The timer on Shadow Return is a massive 15s. And return does only cost 2 initiative. It can only be used if you already spent 3 into the infiltrator’s strike. As long as you make sure that you jump into the fight with atleast 4-5 initiative, you will always be able to return. Just having 3… well then it is time to recover anyway. So switch to SB.

Arheundel.6451:

Personally I don’t want to see any knee jerk nerfs like the 40s RTL, I don’t want to see them anymore on any profession, I don’t care about the boon stealing, if Anet wants anti-bunker its’s fine for me, I’m not bunker anyway.

First of all a 1200 range teleport is absurd, for 3 ini it should be max 900 range, I believe a spammable stun breaker should already be enough, second they need to increase the ini cost of FS.

I don’t think to be asking too much

You have absolutely no clue about thief, becuase asking for these kind of nerfs would kill this spec !

Please, instead of QQing here reroll S/D high ini thief and play some TOURNEYSs !!
Then you can come back and enlighten us …

Sure an engage / disengage move is absurd … instead thief should waddle up into grp fights and when he arrives he is dead by random AEs !
Or even better, don’t use Sword at all use SB + P/P .

S/D besides D/P is our only viable weaponset , and its nowhere near OP as D/D was in the old days .
Or S/P when haste + PW was not nerfed.

And seriously if you lose to a thief that ONLY spams s#2 , s#3 the problem is NOT S/D , the problem sits behind the keyboard .

Why do you think other people / professions don’t have problems with that ?
At least it requires a lot of skill to use this specc right and be effective with it .

And if you ( or someone else refers to jumperX ), please link tPvP movies, as Hotjoin really is not valid.
There are so many nwebies , you cannot take this as a reference !

ensoriki.5789:

^ That’s because they decided to throw the boon steal from the FS evade which does Near no damage to LS which does the bulk of the damage. Hence LS is incredibly rewarding to hit, disproportionately so and lets you see a warrior at 6k health in shield block and say screw it and poke him death with LS anyways. Where as prior since FS did crap damage You’d have to blow 8-12 ini by no exaggeration to drop a warrior in Shield block dead, which may allow him to survive. Lulzy now that it happens for 4.
S/D needs boosts, LS is too rewarding.
Inb4Iamwrong.

dat bolded part

This is the main issue, LS is too rewarding while S/D is kinda bad on its own.

S/D thieves use FS -> LS because there’s actually nothing else worth in the set, aside few random C&D + Tactical strike uses against classes weak against CCs.

S/D also has no way to protect himself from opponents ( unlike /P thieves) and needs the eveasiveness to stay alive ( same reason why Pistol whip evades for the full duration).

Killing an S/D thief is EASY , all you need is to time your CC/damage after FS as soon as the thief pulls the sword to himself (BIG SIGNAL: Larcenous strike is coming).

This game is about conquest and if the thief runs away, without capping-decapping, you’ve won.

it would be cool if people started to understand this simple thing.

Mrbig.8019:

ensoriki.5789:

^ That’s because they decided to throw the boon steal from the FS evade which does Near no damage to LS which does the bulk of the damage. Hence LS is incredibly rewarding to hit, disproportionately so and lets you see a warrior at 6k health in shield block and say screw it and poke him death with LS anyways. Where as prior since FS did crap damage You’d have to blow 8-12 ini by no exaggeration to drop a warrior in Shield block dead, which may allow him to survive. Lulzy now that it happens for 4.
S/D needs boosts, LS is too rewarding.
Inb4Iamwrong.

dat bolded part

This is the main issue, LS is too rewarding while S/D is kinda bad on its own.

S/D thieves use FS -> LS because there’s actually nothing else worth in the set, aside few random C&D + Tactical strike uses against classes weak against CCs.

S/D also has no way to protect himself from opponents ( unlike /P thieves) and needs the eveasiveness to stay alive ( same reason why Pistol whip evades for the full duration).

Killing an S/D thief is EASY , all you need is to time your CC/damage after FS as soon as the thief pulls the sword to himself (BIG SIGNAL: Larcenous strike is coming).

This game is about conquest and if the thief runs away, without capping-decapping, you’ve won.

it would be cool if people started to understand this simple thing.

Dude seriously…do you really think people need you to realize that CC can be used after FS? Do you really think to be that smart and the rest really stupid?

Thank you @MrBig! Nobody ever tried to CC s/d thieves after FS…wish I’d tried it before, what a revelation!

So guys make sure to insta-kill the thief before he press return and kitten the hell out at 1200 range away followed by shadow refuge

…..waste of time..it’s like talking to a wall

Arheundel.6451:

Mrbig.8019:

ensoriki.5789:

^ That’s because they decided to throw the boon steal from the FS evade which does Near no damage to LS which does the bulk of the damage. Hence LS is incredibly rewarding to hit, disproportionately so and lets you see a warrior at 6k health in shield block and say screw it and poke him death with LS anyways. Where as prior since FS did crap damage You’d have to blow 8-12 ini by no exaggeration to drop a warrior in Shield block dead, which may allow him to survive. Lulzy now that it happens for 4.
S/D needs boosts, LS is too rewarding.
Inb4Iamwrong.

dat bolded part

This is the main issue, LS is too rewarding while S/D is kinda bad on its own.

S/D thieves use FS -> LS because there’s actually nothing else worth in the set, aside few random C&D + Tactical strike uses against classes weak against CCs.

S/D also has no way to protect himself from opponents ( unlike /P thieves) and needs the eveasiveness to stay alive ( same reason why Pistol whip evades for the full duration).

Killing an S/D thief is EASY , all you need is to time your CC/damage after FS as soon as the thief pulls the sword to himself (BIG SIGNAL: Larcenous strike is coming).

This game is about conquest and if the thief runs away, without capping-decapping, you’ve won.

it would be cool if people started to understand this simple thing.

Dude seriously…do you really think people need you to realize that CC can be used after FS? Do you really think to be that smart and the rest really stupid?

Thank you @MrBig! Nobody ever tried to CC s/d thieves after FS…wish I’d tried it before, what a revelation!

So guys make sure to insta-kill the thief before he press return and kitten the hell out at 1200 range away followed by shadow refuge

…..waste of time..it’s like talking to a wall

While all of this happens, your point is not being decapped , the timer slowly ticks and you gained points.

You’ve won.

GW2 gamemode is conquest, so you need to cap points in order to win.

You learned something new today, you should be happy.

Mrbig.8019:

Arheundel.6451:

Mrbig.8019:

ensoriki.5789:

^ That’s because they decided to throw the boon steal from the FS evade which does Near no damage to LS which does the bulk of the damage. Hence LS is incredibly rewarding to hit, disproportionately so and lets you see a warrior at 6k health in shield block and say screw it and poke him death with LS anyways. Where as prior since FS did crap damage You’d have to blow 8-12 ini by no exaggeration to drop a warrior in Shield block dead, which may allow him to survive. Lulzy now that it happens for 4.
S/D needs boosts, LS is too rewarding.
Inb4Iamwrong.

dat bolded part

This is the main issue, LS is too rewarding while S/D is kinda bad on its own.

S/D thieves use FS -> LS because there’s actually nothing else worth in the set, aside few random C&D + Tactical strike uses against classes weak against CCs.

S/D also has no way to protect himself from opponents ( unlike /P thieves) and needs the eveasiveness to stay alive ( same reason why Pistol whip evades for the full duration).

Killing an S/D thief is EASY , all you need is to time your CC/damage after FS as soon as the thief pulls the sword to himself (BIG SIGNAL: Larcenous strike is coming).

This game is about conquest and if the thief runs away, without capping-decapping, you’ve won.

it would be cool if people started to understand this simple thing.

Dude seriously…do you really think people need you to realize that CC can be used after FS? Do you really think to be that smart and the rest really stupid?

Thank you @MrBig! Nobody ever tried to CC s/d thieves after FS…wish I’d tried it before, what a revelation!

So guys make sure to insta-kill the thief before he press return and kitten the hell out at 1200 range away followed by shadow refuge

…..waste of time..it’s like talking to a wall

While all of this happens, your point is not being decapped , the timer slowly ticks and you gained points.

You’ve won.

GW2 gamemode is conquest, so you need to cap points in order to win.

You learned something new today, you should be happy.

lol

^ which also means something else!!
If gw2 is ever gonna have other game modes than conquest more based on kills like dm they would literally have to delete the whole thief class.Cause really if you take out the “stealth doesnt cap” argument then the escapes,mobility,stealth intervals and burst this class has is just stupid.

kostbabis.8791:

^ which also means something else!!
If gw2 is ever gonna have other game modes than conquest more based on kills like dm they would literally have to delete the whole thief class.Cause really if you take out the “stealth doesnt cap” argument then the escapes,mobility,stealth intervals and burst this class has is just stupid.

I wouldn’t be so sure.

The thief is still the squishiest class in the game, a class which drops from random AoEs.

there’s a reason why the thief avoids teamfights and stands in the backlines spamming with the shortbow.

In any other possible game mode involving mass team fights ( like DeathMatch), the thief would still be low tier.

A lot of people think thieves guard nodes… therefore they’re useless because stealth-decapping etc.
Thieves assault nodes, roam around killing people between nodes, make insta 2v1 because they mobility is insane, and off course they can’t be seen running around.
They shouldn’t be capping or guarding nodes, you have bunkers for that.

I’ll put in some valid input.

I play both Thief and Guardian. Rank 50 with divided time on both.

Playing a S/D thief has made killing bunkers/Run Regen Rangers/Elementals a breeze.. its not even funny.

Now Playing my Guardian(I feel I’m one of the better few). I usually have no issues 1v1 or in group fights. But for the most part it’s been close matches on other experience players. Coming across a WELL played S/D thief… I have no kitten chance. I don’t run a shout build or boon build either. Heavy Meditation 2h hybrid, never bunker. It’s not me QQ over the fact that I’m losing or being defeated by a skilled S/D thief.. its the fact that i have no way to counter said thief, None! WHY.. its that built-in Evade mechanic and the fact that he spins behind me forcing me to work twice as hard to even attack, then miss!

The problem is… yes thieves are severely broken and OP against most classes.

To many built-in IWIN mechanics. Ports/Cleansing/Stealing boons/Evading, this is the funny part… on 2 keys!. To fix this. Remove alot of the built-in mechanics like Evading which honestly needs to be removed for any class to have a chance, You are essentially giving most thieves full attack mode with perma-evade because it can be spammed, run away a few secons while ini Recharges, back in the fight.

Thieves as it would seem. Are ruining the PvP experience by a large margin for many people. People see thieves(skilled) in most PvP matches, they instant leave to a non-thief pvp match. It’s the truth. This class needs some serious work and overhaul. If it’s not the stealth/attack/stealth mechanic QQ its the S/D QQ. Something has to give…

I don’t play Thief often because I’d prefer a challenge and play a class that seems more balance that can be enjoyed far greater then a what Thieves in general have to offer.

<3 Guardian

ManCaptain.3154:

With thief it’s the combination of everything. Many times I’ve fought 1v1 and I couldn’t land more than 1 skill on them every few sec, even with a build full of daze and stuns. Thief can open out of stealth on me and deal a ton of damage for free. If I use stun or anything they simply use their sword #2 again. If that’s down there’s still shadow step. It’s frustrating to fight when they are always either invisible, evading, dodging, or you’re dazed. If you land anything they teleport away, stunbreaking of course. They also shed conditions while invis and they steal your boons. It’s pretty ridiculous.

The damage is not huge, but it’s enough to take down non-bunkers and bunkers have no chance to kill them anyway. I’m against nerfs to their damage, I just want to be able to use my kitten skills on them, right now it feels like there’s nothing I can do.

You’re right in everything you say.

“Thief can open out of stealth on me and deal a ton of damage for free.”

It’s not free, it’s cheap.

Usual Thief response: “l2p”

They are good in any situation, that’s why this spec became so successfull. You can sustain in a teamfight, you are able to solo bunkers, you can nearly 1v1 every class.
The skillgap required to play this spec successfully is not that high to be effective in a team.

As a necro, I do NOT appreciate my sole source of stability ON A THREE MINUTE COOLDOWN being STOLEN from me by a single, and SPAMMABLE on top of that, attack. I can live with corrupted, or stripped in any other manner, but stolen? …
Lol at the very mention of thieves sharing boons after stealing a 20s stability from plague form/lich. If it turns out to be true, it’ll make me seriously question the intelligence of the people responsible for that gem of a decision.
Ok, I’ve been questioning that for a whle now.

Some nice balance decisions being made there, no doubt.
Much like the concept of constant innitiative regeneration vs constant DS degeneration (when active). Nothing short of brilliant.

GW2 stronk and balancd esportz geym, yarr.
Mamma mia.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

They are good in any situation, that’s why this spec became so successfull. You can sustain in a teamfight, you are able to solo bunkers, you can nearly 1v1 every class.
The skillgap required to play this spec successfully is not that high to be effective in a team.

I don’t want that ability for thieves to 1v1 bunker to go away, but that no line of sight required/through walls 1200 range spammable stunbreaker/teleport must be reduced in efficiency , they can even leave FS as it is..but that 1200 range “let me get the kitten out of here” is too much, smart thieves will abuse this feature to avoid hard pressure of any manner while being able to keep pressure on you

Legacy.7360:

I’ll put in some valid input.

I play both Thief and Guardian. Rank 50 with divided time on both.

Playing a S/D thief has made killing bunkers/Run Regen Rangers/Elementals a breeze.. its not even funny.

Now Playing my Guardian(I feel I’m one of the better few). I usually have no issues 1v1 or in group fights. But for the most part it’s been close matches on other experience players. Coming across a WELL played S/D thief… I have no kitten chance. I don’t run a shout build or boon build either. Heavy Meditation 2h hybrid, never bunker. It’s not me QQ over the fact that I’m losing or being defeated by a skilled S/D thief.. its the fact that i have no way to counter said thief, None! WHY.. its that built-in Evade mechanic and the fact that he spins behind me forcing me to work twice as hard to even attack, then miss!

The problem is… yes thieves are severely broken and OP against most classes.

To many built-in IWIN mechanics. Ports/Cleansing/Stealing boons/Evading, this is the funny part… on 2 keys!. To fix this. Remove alot of the built-in mechanics like Evading which honestly needs to be removed for any class to have a chance, You are essentially giving most thieves full attack mode with perma-evade because it can be spammed, run away a few secons while ini Recharges, back in the fight.

Thieves as it would seem. Are ruining the PvP experience by a large margin for many people. People see thieves(skilled) in most PvP matches, they instant leave to a non-thief pvp match. It’s the truth. This class needs some serious work and overhaul. If it’s not the stealth/attack/stealth mechanic QQ its the S/D QQ. Something has to give…

I don’t play Thief often because I’d prefer a challenge and play a class that seems more balance that can be enjoyed far greater then a what Thieves in general have to offer.

<3 Guardian

This is pretty much how I feel. As a former BM-ranger, I would say, that they feel almost as silly as S/D-thieves (I used to run with S/D). And I love Guardian as well and have changed to that as well