[Balancing] A power mesmer opinion.

[Balancing] A power mesmer opinion.

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

Hello good people,

During the last weak, I began the league and get to legendary with a power mesmer. I have found the experience very frustrating and would like to share some ideas, opinions, a bit of despair, anger and I want to defend my class. Remember, I am talking from a power mesmer view.

I will try to make a list of everything I found “too much”, too strong, too powerfull, too silly, too WTF etc.

The meta is completly denying power builds, and even more power mesmer than the other build, I will explain why :

-First of all, the heavy sustain meta makes power build kinda useless.
I am talking about engineer, guardian and druid. You can put them to 5-10 % life, they will get full life in almost two seconds, I am not exagerating. The worst of all are the elementalist, they give HUGE amounts of heals to every allies, wich makes people unkillable and the fights are extremly long (and a bit boring if I may say).

-The weakness, the invulnerability, the 50 % dammages reduction from necromancer, protection, heavy blocking, toughness etc.
Druid, thieves, revenants and necromancer can easily apply weakness wich is a real pain for power build but isn’t a problem for condi build. The invulnerability are most of the time only pure dammage resistance. The pets from the necromancer is 50 % dammage reduction from power dammages etc. Condition build have no problem dealing dammages.

-The passivs.
I allready talked about the fact that every one gets full life in two seconds, and we can not even one shot them because of passivs skills saving them. Revenant have bubles, engineer immunity at 20 %, auto deaht shroud from necro when they are about to die. Also, the passiv from the nightmare runes is a huge pain, touching a necro gets you fear and chill so almost – 3 000 life. Using the skill 2 of swords on nightare runes rupt the skill. The auta taunt of the revenant when you control him is 3 seconds. It is the longest control in the game. It’s automatic. And you are giving 5 sec protection for the revenant. It is EXTREMLY frustrating. Passiv immunity does not help vs condition, they still do dammages.

There, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfsbuayMDTw, I recorded this two days ago I believe. [Apparently blocked in some countrys because of a music, videos at the end of this post anyway]

At 2 : 30, I kill myself only by hitting a necro. No one touched me. And I died. And while I hit the necromancer, he gets his life back because of the elementalist. I am hitting someone, he gets his life back and I am the one dying. What is the point ?

-The power mesmer has no condition clean.
Exept if we go in inspiration trait wich is a huge burst dammage loss. We can not do heavy dammages and have condi clean at the same time. Most of the other class can.

-The power mesmer is killed by the other power build on the meta.

Thieves, guardian, revenant. They are all more or less anti-class.

That is about it for the meta. Now more specifically.

The revenant is too powerfull. The skill “2” of the swords is a total complete over nonsens. It deals 10 000 dammages with a 4 sec CD coolsown, it hit me even while invisible. I can outplay my oponant, he press “2”, I am dead. Their defensiv cooldows are too low, their dammages too high, their mobility too high. A 5 staff is one shoting me. Too much block, healing while getting hit, block, evade while hitting, too low CDs. At least this class require some skills wich is a small compensation.

Necromancer needs a slight nerf too, the chill wich is allready a heavy control (-66% move) is dealing too much dammages, last too long and is way too easy to apply. Also their elit has a too high range in my opinion, it is 600 range I believe, I think 450 would be better. The skill “4” of death shroud is one shotting me. He has 50 % dammage reduction with his pet. They are way too tanky while in death shroud, and the elementalist can give them high substain wich make them unkillable and huge AoE dammage dealer. The trait chill of death (a passiv) is realy powerfull as well.

Druid ability to TP downstate allie is a bit broken, but I can be wrong about that. Thing is, it is allready quite hard enought to stomp or finish an ennemy without him to get ported away. Huge control and sustain while the pet can one shot with a f2. Almost unkillable but they are weak to CC and have no passiv to save them from the 100-0.

Guardian and thieves are realy hard to deal with but I don’t think they are overpowered, just realy good vs shatter mesmer.

Engineer is unkillable with a power build. Also I am killing myself hitting them because of retaliation. The passiv immune them to a surprise burst / chain Control.

Elementalist. Well Elementalist. What can I say. I am nostalgic. I used to be realy good with my scepter fresh air elem, the fact now that I need to stay X sec in an element to overload is so boring, I had to reroll mesmer. Well that’s not the point. They give TOO MUCH SUSTAIN, IT IS A F****** NIGHTMARE, I swear ! Please do something, do something ! Do something.

I will add many other videos to this post to prove what I sayd, one of a duel vs a rev I think, one to show the substain nonsens of the elementalist and I will see if I need to record more.

Sorry about complaining a lot, the frustration is just way too high. I don’t usualy post on forums but I had to try to change things a bit. That sayd I need to add that this meta is better than the last one. And I get to legendary in a few days wich isn’t that awfull. But I realy think pasivs, substain, rev, nec need a slight nerf.

Videos :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSCJUnRSyM&feature=youtu.be
0:44 Beginning
0:58 Duelling a necromancer (0% death shroud) still take one minute to put down.
3:28 Duelling bad rev
4:20 War saved by passiv (auto Stability)
5:15 Duelling same necro (100 % death shroud)
6:00 10 000 from skill “2” revenant swords, I wasn’t the target.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjjMdd5O8nQ
Duelling a revenant. The cast time of the weakness AoE is too short, barely dodgable. Also, keep an eye on his buffs without forgetting I am a huge boon remover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMPo82BHBp4
[MUST SEE] Nighmare runes dammages, two necromancers (thanks Azzurs for helping me).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6DWbSLkUzQ&feature=youtu.be
Revenant skill “2” of sword. (bad audio, be carefull )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5KIAZOs4QQ&feature=youtu.be (Arround 160 ping in this video, still playable I would say)
0:11 Begining
0:25 Intercepting a necro.
1:10 EZ escape from revenant because Xtrem legit skill essence of gameplay too skilled too furious Plz give this man a cookie for his powerfullness.
1:45 Wanted the kill but the mighty elementalist suddenly appeared.
2:15 Elementalist substain on necromancer
2:20 Losing -4 500 life because I hit twice the necromancer.
2:40 Peacefull moments. <3
3:55 Appears the mighty elementalist, everyone getting full life.
5:00 Duelling the mighty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=4qiCUW-mjEw
Frost Aura + chill runes, death even when I use my heal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj5u8al5yZQ [Not about class balancing, testing low divisions “hell”]
Realy easy match, the other one were a bit harder but still quite easy. To tell the truth, the skill seems to reflect the division.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm7ficpMf6Q&nohtml5=False
Duelling the king of necromancer, nothing seems overpowered exept the tankyness while in death shroud.

What I think should be done :
-Reducing a bit the range of the elit “chill to the bones”. (600 – 450 ?)
-Reducing the duration of the chill on the trait chill of death.
-Not allowing frost aura to apply necro trait dammage on chill.
-Not allowing frost aura to get longer duration because of necro traits.
-(Maybe even putting a max range on the aura, like shock aura, something like 600 or 900, above this range, the aura would have no effect but I am not sure it is reasonable)
-Scaling the dammages of the fire aura on the elementalist condition stats, not the one who get the aura (maybe it is allready the case).
-Putting a 100% chance when struck to cause Fear on the nightmares runes instead of 50. By removing the RNG, we can force the rune to trigger on a berserker clone for instance.

More comming soon.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

Feels you, I am a power warrior myself, you know what?? Introduction an anti condi stats ( like toighness) might alleviate some of those problems. The meta is Dec anti powerr

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Posted by: Interpret Interrupt.3824

Interpret Interrupt.3824

Shatter mesmer does a lot of damage still. Other mesmer builds outshine it right now, but that does not mean the dps is nonexistent.

K Pop
The Warrior, The Necro, The F1 Connoisseur
http://www.twitch.tv/interpretinterrupt

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

Shatter mesmer never had a good DPS, it is a burst gameplay. But it wasn’t the post purpose.

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Posted by: BeepBoopBop.5403

BeepBoopBop.5403

Yeah there’s just too much power-hate in this meta for any real burst build to be viable other than Marauder Invocation Revenant (whose damage is almost over the top…but I love it <3). Between Engi Bulwark Gyro, Ele protection, constant weakness and “Rise!” shout from Necros, etc. etc. etc.

Koolgai Smurf – Thief | Dazin U – Mesmer | Whats Healing Power – Ranger|
I Bought Hot – Revenant | [QQ]

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

As some one who has played only power shatter soloq to legend this season, i can agree with almost everything you said. I find scrapper, reaper, rev the most frustrsting to face. When it comes to the rest, they at least have clear weaknesses that make up for countering shatter med (thief for instance farms shatter now). Playing versus scrapper and rev is mainly painful due to the insane amount of sustain through blocks, evades, invulns, whereas reaper is hard to play vs due to the fact that a single chillbains + nightmare rune basically kills you.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: Shala.8352

Shala.8352

You are just repeating what i was explaining one mounth ago in my “plz revert scepter auto buff” thread. Weakness is just the death of power builds. And the fact that corruption can corrupt one stack of might in 11 seconds of weakness doesnt help.
Condition not taking any disadvantage from weakness is a big deal.
The silliest thing is that resistence (wich should be the counter part of endure pain against condi) is in fact countered by condi, since it’s a boon that can be corrupt!
The fact that necromancer dmg can’t be mitigated at the same way as power except from heavy cleanse focused builds (wich are not well balanced between classes, and in fact is the reason of build diversity absence) is the reason this class is now a faceroll on the keyboard.
I’m happy there’s people that agree with me, but condi players will never admit this, they like their supremacy and will defend it forever, cuz no matter the logic, people like to faceroll opponents, like easy gameplay and easy outclass.
Aniway congrats for getting legend with your power mesmer, i can only immagine how painfull must have been.

Oh only one thing i have to add, no one is using anymore the auto proc shield on revenant, its healing has been nerfed and it usualy procs after condi dmg (like defy pain), it can interrupt your skills and stopping your movements, making you an easy target in the next coming seconds for a burst. The counterpart virtue of guardian instead, blocks every 30 seconds and also punish you for hitting him by apply you burning. Seems logic…

(edited by Shala.8352)

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

One video added, mesmer random tournament.

Maybe they will admit it, seeing someone losing full life only by hitting a necro should be enought. Well I hope it is.
Also, I almost forget the protective ward trait from druid, passiv trait (15 sec CD), everytime you hit him, you get weakness (6 sec) and he get protection (5 sec). So, -33 % dammage from protection, arround -50 because of weakness I would say, I don’t know how that scale but you got the idea. Every 15 sec.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

One video added.

Maybe they will admit it, seeing someone losing full life only by hitting a necro should be enought. Well I hope it is.
Also, I almost forget the protective ward trait from druid, passiv trait (15 sec CD), everytime you hit him, you get weakness (6 sec) and he get protection (5 sec). So, -33 % dammage from protection, arround -50 because of weakness I would say, I don’t know how that scale but you got the idea. Every 15 sec.

What!! omg , how is that even a thing? ?? And you can’t even get rid of weakness, seriously who made that call??

(edited by Fivedawgs.4267)

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

One Video added, duelling a revenant.

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Posted by: Interpret Interrupt.3824

Interpret Interrupt.3824

Greatsword auto does like 1k-2k per chain. I would say that is high dps.
All of the high dps builds are like rock paper scissors. (War-shatter mes- thief)
With revenants being the gun.

K Pop
The Warrior, The Necro, The F1 Connoisseur
http://www.twitch.tv/interpretinterrupt

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Posted by: Ruru.1302

Ruru.1302

The first link is dead, btw. SME entertainment removed it

mag
[Mada] Apocryfia

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

@k pip with weakness and protection, it’s more like 600 dps per chain

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Posted by: Rekt.5360

Rekt.5360

Greatsword auto does like 1k-2k per chain. I would say that is high dps.
All of the high dps builds are like rock paper scissors. (War-shatter mes- thief)
With revenants being the gun.

For a 1.5(?) sec channel its reaaaally bad dps xD heck sword warr auto dmg is 1-1.8k per hit on full zerker and the hits take between 1/4 and 1/2 second each.

Vanov {Warrior} ~ Still waiting for “Guide on Making Proper ||#1 Warr NA|| Sig”

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Posted by: Shala.8352

Shala.8352

Greatsword auto does like 1k-2k per chain. I would say that is high dps.
All of the high dps builds are like rock paper scissors. (War-shatter mes- thief)
With revenants being the gun.

For a 1.5(?) sec channel its reaaaally bad dps xD heck sword warr auto dmg is 1-1.8k per hit on full zerker and the hits take between 1/4 and 1/2 second each.

sword is a melee weapon, this means warrior will have to eat all the condi kitten to do the dmg with that sword.
Also dont compare ranged dmg with melee dmg, it has no sense. Landing that Gs autoattack with mesmer is much more easier and safe than landing a sword autoattack.

(edited by Shala.8352)

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

Dude gs is also melee, I don’t get your post. Landing sw aa is hard as landing gs aa.

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

One video added, nightmare runes.
I will reupload the first video later, it takes time to do so.
One video added, revenant “2” sword (marauder).
For the DPS part, the fact that the greatsword AA from mesmer is easy to land does not mean it is a good DPS.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: TheBlackLeech.9360

TheBlackLeech.9360

Shatter mesmer does a lot of damage still. Other mesmer builds outshine it right now, but that does not mean the dps is nonexistent.

The gimmick now is to condi shatter…. put every single condition in the game on someone…. and then while they are still stun locked from the daze, moa morph them, so they die from the condis before they revert back.

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

One video added, Mesmer random tournament. “Intresting” moments in the description above.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: VaaCrow.3076

VaaCrow.3076

Dude gs is also melee, I don’t get your post. Landing sw aa is hard as landing gs aa.

mesmer GS is not mellee……

[Rise] Madness Rises Guild Leader [Kei Shade-ranger]
May our BL break all foes. Fear our babou!
Gunnars Hold Represent! <3

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

Dude gs is also melee, I don’t get your post. Landing sw aa is hard as landing gs aa.

mesmer GS is not mellee……

Yeah, I figured anywyas 5 hanks for point that out.

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

One video added, Xtrem Necro gameplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=4qiCUW-mjEw

I am not laughing at necro gameplay in general, but I wanted to show the feeling I have in ranked. Hitting people and dying wihtout them to do anything.
The “getting hit to apply condition” seems realy unfair to me. That’s what I wanted to denounce.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

One video added, Xtrem Necro gameplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=4qiCUW-mjEw

I am not laughing at necro gameplay in general, but I wanted to show the feeling I have in ranked. Hitting people and dying wihtout them to do anything.
The “getting hit to apply condition” seems realy unfair to me. That’s what I wanted to denounce.

That’s probably the worst thing I’ve ever seen in a videogame, because that basically is the opposite of the holy statement which is “Hit it till it dies”, now it’s “Hit it till you die”, I seriously hope Necro and these runes get’s a big nerf because this is the most braindead counterplay in years…

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Posted by: Mak.2657

Mak.2657

Mesmer GS aa one of the worst range attack between classes in terms of dps (damage PER SECOND)

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

I do not wish a big nerf on necro at all.
-Reducing a bit the range of the elit “chill to the bones”.
-Reducing the duration of the chill on the trait chill of death.
-Not allowing frost aura to apply necro trait dammage on chill.
-Not allowing frost aura to get longer duration because of necro traits.
-(Maybe even putting a max range on the aura, like shock aura, something like 600 or 900, above this range, the aura would have no effect but I am not sure it is reasonable)
-Scaling the dammages of the fire aura on the elementalist condition stats, not the one who get the aura (maybe it is allready the case).
-Putting a 100% chance when struck to cause Fear on the nightmare runes instead of 50. By removing the RNG, we can force the rune to trigger on a berserker clone for example.
For the AA mesmer greatsword, the DPS isn’t great but 3 dammage per channeling allow easier fire / air proc and aegis EZ remove. Also getting 3 retaliation per sec (;p). I think it’s fine as it is.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

About the division system, I’ve seen many posts complaining about divisions not base on skills. So I asked a friend to land me his account, trying some (about 20, I believe) ranked in low divisions. I have to say, the “skill” difference between low divisions and high division is real, the actual system seems to work kinda well.
I have recorded this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj5u8al5yZQ) today of the last match I have done (Emerald 4, I believe ?), not playing specially well but there is absolutly no need to “tryhard”.
Also did some DuoQ (5+ If I recall corectly) with a rubis because most of the problems seemed there but I haven’t noticed any “rubis hell” or whatever.
The skill reflects the division as far as I played this season.

(edited by Baroness.5147)

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Posted by: Baroness.5147

Baroness.5147

One video added, duelling the king of necromancer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm7ficpMf6Q&feature=youtu.be

Heil to the king !

On the 5 duels I have done, I haven’t win once but it’s simply because he is better than me. I don’t feel anything overpowered on the necromancer (exept a bit too tanky while in death shroud).
Revenant, on this other hand, is the class that needs a huge nerf because totally overpowered, I can not find them any excuses.
I will also add some duels against thieves and guardians (good one) to show how badly power mesmers are countered by those class.
If we go inspitation for condi clean, we lose arround 35-40 % dammage burst (vulnerability + 30 % dammage trait), it would be nice to have at least one condi remove without going inspi.