Guild Wars 2

“Berserker Stance: The duration of this skill has been increased from 4 to 8 seconds.”

Is poorly thought out. Good design doesnt just make a character immune to damage from other characters. As a necro you will 100% lose to a warrior running berserker stance 1 on 1. They have 10 seconds where they cannot die. They will kill you in this 10 seconds without any doubt.

Not really fun. No counter play possible. If warrior has this skill you just die.

I guess warriors are good for something now?

Lordrosicky.5813:

“Berserker Stance: The duration of this skill has been increased from 4 to 8 seconds.”

Is poorly thought out. Good design doesnt just make a character immune to damage from other characters. As a necro you will 100% lose to a warrior running berserker stance 1 on 1. They have 10 seconds where they cannot die. They will kill you in this 10 seconds without any doubt.

Not really fun. No counter play possible. If warrior has this skill you just die.

They have 10 seconds where you have to deathshroud?….. oh noes! Call the feds!

Eh? This is the least expected from a Necro. I mean honestly. Necro are the least to worry about this change. While Warrior is Immune to Dam while in Berserker Stance, but that only Direct Damage, Condition Dams still go through like normal and he is still objected to CC. Necro is very good at doing pressure with Conditions Dams? Why worry?

Stealth.9324:

Eh? This is the least expected from a Necro. I mean honestly. Necro are the least to worry about this change. While Warrior is Immune to Dam while in Berserker Stance, but that only Direct Damage, Condition Dams still go through like normal and he is still objected to CC. Necro is very good at doing pressure with Conditions Dams? Why worry?

Berserker Stance reduces incoming condi duration by 100%. Doesn’t affect direct damage.

Stealth.9324:

Eh? This is the least expected from a Necro. I mean honestly. Necro are the least to worry about this change. While Warrior is Immune to Dam while in Berserker Stance, but that only Direct Damage, Condition Dams still go through like normal and he is still objected to CC. Necro is very good at doing pressure with Conditions Dams? Why worry?

You’re confusing berserker stance with endure pain.
Endure pain nullifies direct damage application.
Berserker stance nullfies condition application.
It’s like the engineers automated response except its a utility with no pre-requisite.

Oh my bad. My apologize. I guess War is unbeatable now since they have both Immune with Condition Dams as well as Direct Dams? And they can kill you in less than 10s with no worry… Well, guess we need to see how thing turn out before we can say anything else.

8s aganst 60s CD?

Don’t warry. I don’t use berserker stance.
Oh god! I never use stance

Bring back BURST meta +1

Just dodge and keep running away for 8 seconds if you didn’t build power? Not much different than when I am on my engie and gotta play defensively until someone’s stability runs out.

Already with the QQ.

Good lord, a warrior gets to move and suddenly its a big deal? (For the record, I don’t play a warrior, I play MM Necro who relies on heavy condition CC) and its still not that bad… I beat warriors running it before and end up with 100% hp, maybe now they have better windows to actually do something.

it rejects 100% of condi base duration. If you have additional duration (30/30/10 necro for example) your conditions will still land, they will just have severely shortened durations for 8 seconds. It is honestly a good idea IMHO, good possibilities for counter play and possibly even counter-builds if warriors are as deadly to necros as OP thinks they might be.

reedju.5786:

it rejects 100% of condi base duration. If you have additional duration (30/30/10 necro for example) your conditions will still land, they will just have severely shortened durations for 8 seconds. It is honestly a good idea IMHO, good possibilities for counter play and possibly even counter-builds if warriors are as deadly to necros as OP thinks they might be.

This isnt how it works. You nullify all conditions.

And I think this change will have a positive effect. I just dont like the paper/scissors/rock design direction.

Lordrosicky.5813:

This isnt how it works. You nullify all conditions.

And I think this change will have a positive effect. I just dont like the paper/scissors/rock design direction.

Do you think we should remove protection, stability, weakness, condition removal and all forms of boon removal next? After all, those are paper/scissors/rock gameplay elements too.

Even if it doesn’t function like that it says nothing about stripping all existing condis from the warrior meaning that if he does blow a couple of cleanses before popping it, all it will take is kiting/DS face tanking until he is ready to be condi burst into the ground. Good warriors will use it well, others will still be useless. I don’t think it’s rock paper scissors at all, there is nothing in this change that shows the long UP warrior will now suddenly “win” if he has this slotted against condi, he simply has means of counterplay now. I believe it was much more rock paper scissors before with warrior when all three would kill him before the enemy team even had a chance.

Any game with classes is going to have some level of “Here’s my trump card for your trump card.” Stuns are paper, Stun breakers/Stability are Scissors, Boon removal is the Rock. In GW1 it was the same thing, in DCUO it was the same thing, in Eve online it’s the same thing, in every multiplayer class based game it’s the same thing. There’s no getting away from it.

Dirame.8521:

Any game with classes is going to have some level of “Here’s my trump card for your trump card.” Stuns are paper, Stun breakers/Stability are Scissors, Boon removal is the Rock. In GW1 it was the same thing, in DCUO it was the same thing, in Eve online it’s the same thing, in every multiplayer class based game it’s the same thing. There’s no getting away from it.

This is pretty crude though. Much like the engineer trait which means no conditions effect them under 25% health. I think this narrow design is bad for the game.

Do you guys realize that is just a little toy a warrior might use to just live some seconds longer against a condition burst necro ? and its not like they can spam it….. its still on 60s cd, and doesnt make them invulnerable to conditions, it lowers their duration by a 100% factor; on my necro i have 50% increased condition duration, which means that my condition will still stay for half the duration even if he pops that skill.
Just to make it clearer to noobies eyes, just my mark of blood will trigger 3 stacks of bleeding for 12seconds, which means that 6s will stay on him and something similar will do enfeebling blood with added weakness for a result duration of about 5-6s.
Thats really nothing to worry about, they wont become invincible all f a sudden, they’ll just have an optional tool to use against not-so-heavy condition spec, i think its more than deserved to wars

^ Already stated in this thread

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

Specified as “unmodified” condis, meaning the old necro 0/20/10/10/30 with foot in the grave and terror will put out fears that hit through the stance as well as have decent access to stability.

Lordrosicky.5813:

reedju.5786:

it rejects 100% of condi base duration. If you have additional duration (30/30/10 necro for example) your conditions will still land, they will just have severely shortened durations for 8 seconds. It is honestly a good idea IMHO, good possibilities for counter play and possibly even counter-builds if warriors are as deadly to necros as OP thinks they might be.

This isnt how it works. You nullify all conditions.

And I think this change will have a positive effect. I just dont like the paper/scissors/rock design direction.

Wrong. It works exactly like Reedju said.

It stops 100% base condition duration on newly applied conditions only. It does not effect conditions already on the warrior, and it will not stop conditions which have increased condition duration (just remove the base codition duration – in effect shortening it to the length of the increase.)

havoc.6814:

Lordrosicky.5813:

reedju.5786:

it rejects 100% of condi base duration. If you have additional duration (30/30/10 necro for example) your conditions will still land, they will just have severely shortened durations for 8 seconds. It is honestly a good idea IMHO, good possibilities for counter play and possibly even counter-builds if warriors are as deadly to necros as OP thinks they might be.

This isnt how it works. You nullify all conditions.

And I think this change will have a positive effect. I just dont like the paper/scissors/rock design direction.

Wrong. It works exactly like Reedju said.

It stops 100% base condition duration on newly applied conditions only. It does not effect conditions already on the warrior, and it will not stop conditions which have increased condition duration (just remove the base codition duration – in effect shortening it to the length of the increase.)

No. I have tested it. You are wrong. It should basically read – immune to conditions

People.. it is not immunity, it is 100% cond reduction, which means even if you have 10% cond duration your bleed will still tick at least once etc..

So now that warriors have a very reliable way to become immune to conditions…. maybe mesmers can get some condition hate as well? We are straight out bottom of the condition removal barrel… What gives Anet?

tested, warrior still suck as hell the hole class mechanik is still broken, need complete rework

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Warrior-Redesign-Project/page/2#post2371469

Support Warrior Rework!

natsos.3692:

People.. it is not immunity, it is 100% cond reduction, which means even if you have 10% cond duration your bleed will still tick at least once etc..

It wont. Test it and please stop spreading misinformation

prozon.3561:

tested, warrior the game still suck as hell the hole class mechanik game is still broken, need complete rework

FTFY

Conditions are in a terrible spot with anything and everything cleansing any and any condition, with no control over even which kind (control/dmg/debuff)…

Boons involve extremely niche speccing to have the opportunity to counter, but boy do you counter them… or if you don’t, your left at a large disadvantage…

Positioning means kitten in comparison with any other MMO.

The majority of weapons just seem like a mound of nifty ideas tossed in, where to balance is decided by which set of completely unthought out abilities ends up being the best…

F1-4 skills are pretty much universally badly made. The only one I like is the the necro one. Pets come close but the kittenty AI they force on us turns it into utter trash.

The game is based on speccing to be as independently functional as possible!!! that is exactly what an MMO isn’t… the whole genre is based around having innate synergy between players, the simplest way was with tank-dps-heals so people didn’t have to sit in vent talking about specs just to be able to play as a team… but tossing that for nothing good (sitting at a back point AFK’ing is not fun team work)… I mean, but hardcore premade speccing to have the opportunity to work with an ally… GDI.

I dont play warrior and i look forward to this change, like seriously, warriors are a joke at least they will be able to do something now against the new condi spam meta.

LOL the change doesn’t suck. It’s great for warriors.

Berserker stance has 8s duration, endure pain has 4s duration. Endure pain does not block control effects or condi damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

Please get facts straight before complaining. Also, Berserker Stance DOES NOT affect condis already on the warrior. I just tested this to verify. All it does is prevent new condis. On a 60s cooldown it’s still not worth the slot since you pretty much have to use it before you enter combat for it to be effective, which wastes some of the duration (since everyone tends to front-load their condis in the first 5 seconds or so.)

With the new berserker stance you just kite/stun/knockdown/block for a few seconds and then front-load condis.

Edit: I do want to say that this is a step in the right direction in terms of helping warriors deal with conditions, so it is certainly welcomed. I’m still not sure if signet of stamina is simply better since it gives more dodges + full condi cleanse on a lower cooldown (i.e., you can cleanse the intial condi front-load completely)

This change is fine. With that said, Warriors now have sufficient enough options to deal with conditions through traits/utilities added through the last few patches. If somebody still feels otherwise, maybe we’ll finally get some attention towards how easy/rewarding it is to apply conditions.

Lordrosicky.5813:

natsos.3692:

People.. it is not immunity, it is 100% cond reduction, which means even if you have 10% cond duration your bleed will still tick at least once etc..

It wont. Test it and please stop spreading misinformation

You stop! I haven’t just tested it, I main a warrior and run with this. I know kitten ed well how it works, because I see it all the time. Stop telling people that it gives immunity to conditions. That is a bold-faced lie. Just stop it, Mr. Necro!

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dirame.8521:

Any game with classes is going to have some level of “Here’s my trump card for your trump card.” Stuns are paper, Stun breakers/Stability are Scissors, Boon removal is the Rock. In GW1 it was the same thing, in DCUO it was the same thing, in Eve online it’s the same thing, in every multiplayer class based game it’s the same thing. There’s no getting away from it.

This is pretty crude though. Much like the engineer trait which means no conditions effect them under 25% health. I think this narrow design is bad for the game.

Save possible dodges if needed and build up on life force for those 10 seconds if the warrior hasn’t tried bursting yet. Also kite using pillars, rocks and whatever environment you have for your advantage. If they use it pre-burst you’ll still have dodges, if they use it afterwards they won’t achieve much.

The engi trait is much more dangerous since it doesn’t have a real cooldown and defined duration, imo. Plus, I haven’t tested this yet, but I’m guessing current conditions won’t be removed, so the weakness and the possible chill will still be there to help.

Lordrosicky.5813:

natsos.3692:

People.. it is not immunity, it is 100% cond reduction, which means even if you have 10% cond duration your bleed will still tick at least once etc..

It wont. Test it and please stop spreading misinformation

Can you just stop posting here?

jportell.2197:

So now that warriors have a very reliable way to become immune to conditions…. maybe mesmers can get some condition hate as well? We are straight out bottom of the condition removal barrel… What gives Anet?

Erm, probably because mesmers are doing just fine in tPvP to the point where just about every good team is running one? Secondly, mesmers have a lot of condi removal options, they just generally choose not to run them because the things that make them viable take precedence which is much the same as warriors. All of our condi removal options cut into our damage or control abilities, making it still a stretch to incorporate them into builds.

On the original topic, this skill is awesome if you know how to use it. An 8s break from a thief’s blinds or necro’s fears/condi’s is a godsend, if you can’t burst down a thief in 8s or get a necro CC’d in that period of time I think it’s a player issue.

Honestly a few bug fixes and I think warriors will be in the mediocre category, which is far better than the bottom of the heap as we were before.

Doesn’t Zerker Stance reduce condition duration by 100% but if you have condition duration gear it will still apply.

E.g. A bleed for 10 seconds (default) will be ignored by the stance.
The same bleed with +10% duration will apply a 1sec bleed to the warrior in the stance

Lordrosicky.5813:

*"Berserker Stance: The duration of this skill has been increased from 4 to 8 seconds."*

Is poorly thought out. Good design doesnt just make a character immune to damage from other characters. As a necro you will 100% lose to a warrior running berserker stance 1 on 1. They have 10 seconds where they cannot die. They will kill you in this 10 seconds without any doubt.

Not really fun. No counter play possible. If warrior has this skill you just die.

Yet there are many skills in this game that make you immune to incoming conditions (i.e Blocks, Mist Form, the minimize skill from engies, Renewed Focus) and I don’t see you complaining about those.

A good Necro will completely destroy a Warrior with their combination of chills, fears, cripples, immobilizes. I don’t see how a 4 second longer window will change that all that much. If you are getting killed in 10 seconds by a warrior I don’t know what to say ... Necros have such a high health pool and have Death Shroud which is a huge buffer.

You want to know how to counterplay? Use wells for direct damage to the warrior, use Flesh Golem to knock them back, use death shroud to absorb damage, use spectral walk, etc. It isn’t hard. They still take burst damage.

If anything, there was no counterplay for a class just unloading heaps and heaps of conditions on people because any amount of cleanse would not help that.

A Warrior can actually maybe fight and counter a Necro 1v1, omg it must the end of the world.

Necros just can put 25 stacks bleed, each taking 125+ every second.
Is 3000+ dmg per second. This no talking about Burn + Fear + Torment + Poison + Mark + raw dmg.

Oh yes! 8s imunity to incoming condition are extremly amazing!

Whenever we have 8s with 60s CD, Mesmers, Rangers and Thieves have Atack + Evasion at same time in weapon skill with very low CD :/

Blurred Frenzy (2,5 evade all atacks. CD = 9s) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Balance + Berserk + Endure Pain.

My opinion?
Stances need be reworked and/or improved.

Dojo.1867:

Lordrosicky.5813:

natsos.3692:

People.. it is not immunity, it is 100% cond reduction, which means even if you have 10% cond duration your bleed will still tick at least once etc..

It wont. Test it and please stop spreading misinformation

Can you just stop posting here?

The guy is absolutely right. We just tested it. I had 30% condition duration from traits, 10% from 2 lyssa runes, and 10% from 4 nightmare runes. Once my friend popped the skill, I could put no conditions on him whatsoever. I put down spectral wall and he walked right through it. So please don’t tell somebody to shut up when they say they’ve tested and you haven’t.

Anyways, with this skill warriors will be able to mutilate necros if they are also equipped with lots of CC’s. I have had hammer warriors keep me CC’d for over 10 seconds before. So you are telling me that after that elapses I have to put up with 10 more seconds (with boon duration) that I can’t put a single condition on them? There is no way I am going to last through that.

OMG, Stance duration increases from 4 to 8 and then some **** opens up a topic, spews out a lot of nonsense and away we go.

Seriously people, if you want to cry about something, at least get your facts straight before you start to QQ.

Jonwar.9205:

Erm, probably because mesmers are doing just fine in tPvP to the point where just about every good team is running one? Secondly, mesmers have a lot of condi removal options, they just generally choose not to run them because the things that make them viable take precedence which is much the same as warriors. All of our condi removal options cut into our damage or control abilities, making it still a stretch to incorporate them into builds.

On the original topic, this skill is awesome if you know how to use it. An 8s break from a thief’s blinds or necro’s fears/condi’s is a godsend, if you can’t burst down a thief in 8s or get a necro CC’d in that period of time I think it’s a player issue.

Honestly a few bug fixes and I think warriors will be in the mediocre category, which is far better than the bottom of the heap as we were before.

Mesmers are picked in tpvp only due to their portal and Illusion of Life skills. The moment those 2 are reworked (they will be), say bye to Mesmers from tpvp. Also, you are mistaken. Mesmers have horrid condition removal. A fully specced mesmer can at the most remove 4-6 conditions every 35-40 sec which is equal to signet of stamina alone. The reason why warriors are lower placed in the pvp ladder is because of the mesmers active defenses (blurred frenzy/distortion/decoy/blink).

I like this change. It is a skill based change and not a faceroll one. A good warrior CAN kill a necro with this (provided the necro is not at max life force) but a good necro CAN survive it with dodges/spectral walk.

JETWING.2759:

Necros just can put 25 stacks bleed, each taking 125+ every second.
Is 3000+ dmg per second. This no talking about Burn + Fear + Torment + Poison + Mark + raw dmg.

Oh yes! 8s imunity to incoming condition are extremly amazing!

Whenever we have 8s with 60s CD, Mesmers, Rangers and Thieves have Atack + Evasion at same time in weapon skill with very low CD :/

Blurred Frenzy (2,5 evade all atacks. CD = 9s) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Balance + Berserk + Endure Pain.

My opinion?
Stances need be reworked and/or improved.

Cannot comment on Rangers/Thieves but Mesmers active defenses (for conditions) are nothing compared to this one. This will make you negate fears/chills/cripples while adding in stability will keep you completely immune to anything and everything. It is not overpowered but it is not a weak change for a burst warrior.

krippler.9826:

The guy is absolutely right. We just tested it. I had 30% condition duration from traits, 10% from 2 lyssa runes, and 10% from 4 nightmare runes. Once my friend popped the skill, I could put no conditions on him whatsoever. I put down spectral wall and he walked right through it. So please don’t tell somebody to shut up when they say they’ve tested and you haven’t.

Anyways, with this skill warriors will be able to mutilate necros if they are also equipped with lots of CC’s. I have had hammer warriors keep me CC’d for over 10 seconds before. So you are telling me that after that elapses I have to put up with 10 more seconds (with boon duration) that I can’t put a single condition on them? There is no way I am going to last through that.

I think I have noticed that it does not work as stated. It does make you “Immune” to conditions so we will need some one from ANet to confirm if this is intended. I would say it should be intended since a Necro is in no danger of dying from a warrior unless he is clueless about dodging burst attacks and using DS/Spectral walk effectively.
Most necros will be because right now they get on point, spam marks/epicdemic/spec wall and watch as things melt.

As a necromancer, I think this change is fine. The counter-play is being defensive for eight seconds or focusing another target.

Still, they really need to fix both Berserker Stance and Automated Response to allow higher-than-base-duration conditions to go through.

I would like to end this argument and say your both right. From the GW2 Wiki
Berserker Stance Notes
“Grants immunity to unmodified conditions and gain 5 strikes of adrenaline per second.”
“Bug: Grants full immunity to conditions regardless of condition duration modifiers.”

It’s just as bugged as the engineer trait. It doesn’t actually reduce duration — it makes you flat out immune.

8 seconds is more than enough for a warrior to demolish a necromancer. I don’t know what dodges you’re talking about when you’re either rooted from bow 5 or stunned by either bull’s charge or shield bash and end up eating an eviscerate.

OH NOES! All the FOTM whores who just got used to owning people with necro since last patch, are all out guns blazing, because puny warriors are eating them alive.

This is actually quite amusing to watch. I might just log in and abuse the bug today, while it’s still there, so I can get my share of laughs as warrior for the first time since the release. YAY!

Demon.5082:

Jonwar.9205:

Erm, probably because mesmers are doing just fine in tPvP to the point where just about every good team is running one? Secondly, mesmers have a lot of condi removal options, they just generally choose not to run them because the things that make them viable take precedence which is much the same as warriors. All of our condi removal options cut into our damage or control abilities, making it still a stretch to incorporate them into builds.

On the original topic, this skill is awesome if you know how to use it. An 8s break from a thief’s blinds or necro’s fears/condi’s is a godsend, if you can’t burst down a thief in 8s or get a necro CC’d in that period of time I think it’s a player issue.

Honestly a few bug fixes and I think warriors will be in the mediocre category, which is far better than the bottom of the heap as we were before.

Mesmers are picked in tpvp only due to their portal and Illusion of Life skills. The moment those 2 are reworked (they will be), say bye to Mesmers from tpvp. Also, you are mistaken. Mesmers have horrid condition removal. A fully specced mesmer can at the most remove 4-6 conditions every 35-40 sec which is equal to signet of stamina alone. The reason why warriors are lower placed in the pvp ladder is because of the mesmers active defenses (blurred frenzy/distortion/decoy/blink).

I like this change. It is a skill based change and not a faceroll one. A good warrior CAN kill a necro with this (provided the necro is not at max life force) but a good necro CAN survive it with dodges/spectral walk.

Challenge accepted.

One full cleanse on a kitten CD, the same as signet of stamina (untraited). Arcane thievery, 3 conditions every 36 seconds. Torch skills, 2 every 24s. Removes one on shatter, varying cooldowns and instantly recharged with signet, situational much like cleansing ire. 1 on heal every 15s. 1 from rune every 30s, but requires you to get hit a few times. I didn’t say it was viable, but neither is a warrior specced for full condition removal.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJAsPl0ziqXTzhmkwUBif6B0Bw0RVAAkU46XD

Yes though, all in all that’s basically what I was trying to say. It’s something that levels the playing field, not tips it one way or another (I actually think it should stay as immune to conditions).

To continue, I don’t think it’s really survivability that brings a warrior down anymore in comparison to the mesmer, I see the main issue being utility. Now, if warrior rez banner was brought down in cooldown to something reasonable (with nerfs to its duration) we might see this level out. Bringing a warrior at the moment is like bringing half a mesmer.

EDIT: seriously, forty five second shorthand is filtered?

Null field does NOT remove all conditions. It removes one per second for 5 seconds. Which, if bleeds are applied to you as autoattacks, will probably mean 5 stacks of bleed of total will be lost and that’s all.

hmmm… somebody should update that tooltip, I thought that was how it worked but read the tooltip on the build editor and figured I was wrong.

Still, I maintain that a mesmer can remove a fair amount of conditions (as well as a warrior anyways) if they really want to spec for it.

It does rip all the boons and conditions, just one at a time. The real mistake is the field duration which isn’t 7s but more like 5s indeed.

The problem of Null Field is that it forces you to stick in a not that big zone to get it’s benefits. You’ll be vulnerable to the other player carpet bombing that space with AoE skills when you use it.