Guild Wars 2

Bored waiting on the new patch hoping it balancing Spvp out better then it is.

I’m curious on what people think the best Anti-thief (the popular dagger spec) class and build is?

Mesmer.

Unless of course they sneak up on you which any of them with half a brain should be doing. =p

But you do get like 0.3 seconds to react to the initial CnD/Mug and blink or decoy/dodge. And the clones/distortion can make it a PITA to get the combo on you.

Elementalists can also take them on and pawn them good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dlv8-0BGfk

I tend to regard thieves as a vague annoyance when playing necro.

Second the Elementalist. D/D and S/D are both great anti-Thief builds.

On my necro it is almost completely dependent on if I have a large amount of life force. If I’m over halfway I have a very good chance of winning as long as their initial burst doesn’t kill me so fast that I can’t even hit my DS. If I’m out of LF or very low, I’m toast since I don’t carry around a ton of “o crap” utility skills.

To my surprise my glass cannon warrior is doing pretty well against them provided I have some CD’s left. I usually run Rifle/dual axes, Rifle/G.S., or best of all for the thieves (hardly ever loose) G.S/Dual Axe. There’s just so much aoe and raw damage that I can sustain that it’s hard for a thief to deal with aside even in stealth (aoe) unless they land a perfect opener with some cc. That’s where ‘Feel no Pain’, ‘War Stomp’ and bulls charge come in. If I don’t kill them tho, it can be a problem if I’ve blown all my cd’s and they get away to heal and re-stealth.

Best Thief counter is …. another Thief..

If you’re going for simple 1on1, a decent Ele with a “Phantaram-build” can take on a Thief. Don’t get me started about them in real games, that’s a whole other story.

The Ele-build depends on rather long cooldowns (for both the burst and the survivability) to win against Thiefs, so if a Thief pops up during a Teamfight, there’s often nothing you can do but watch ppl falling to Dancing Dagger and Backstabs.

So if you play against Thiefs in a match, just keep at least one defensive CD (Mistform, Lightning Flash, arcane Shield) rdy, if you don’t know exactly where the Thief is and you’ll at least be able to flee the scene. ^^’

I play backstab Thief primarily and find that most equal skilled players can beat me in a duel (when joining an empty server)

In a duel I tend to lose to the following (when they’re as good or better than me):

Pretty much any well built Elementalist
Hundred Blades Warrior (with Endure Pain)
Conditionmancer
Mind Wrack Mesmer
Any well built Guardian
Most well built Engineers
Other Thieves can go either way
I don’t know about Rangers; haven’t played against any good ones

So any class can beat a Thief 1v1 but the main thing with Thief is catching people off guard. In a real game I’d say a Mesmer, Thief or Guardian are best. A HB Warrior can work if you catch the Thief before they catch you.

Necros is Plague Form are pretty much immune to melee damage, so they’re annoying. Just run away and wait until it passes, but that’s pretty much a fight stopper.

Other than that? Bunker Guardians are annoying. They can’t kill me, but I can’t kill them either. Same thing with Ele bunkers, immortal sobs. All other bunkers are easy, just take a little bit of time to beat.

Nothing else is even a problem in 1v1. LoL at people saying 100b Warriors can beat Thieves, I can probably kill three of them by myself if I have Thieves Guild, unless they’re double rezzing each other, of course.

Edelweiss.9815:

Necros is Plague Form are pretty much immune to melee damage, so they’re annoying. Just run away and wait until it passes, but that’s pretty much a fight stopper.

Other than that? Bunker Guardians are annoying. They can’t kill me, but I can’t kill them either. Same thing with Ele bunkers, immortal sobs. All other bunkers are easy, just take a little bit of time to beat.

Nothing else is even a problem in 1v1. LoL at people saying 100b Warriors can beat Thieves, I can probably kill three of them by myself if I have Thieves Guild, unless they’re double rezzing each other, of course.

Sure, you can beat a HB Warrior with Thieves Guild but most Backstab Thieves don’t run Thieves Guild. In fact it’s pretty stupid to be running Thieves Guild when a huge part of Backstab is using Basilisk Venom.

In a real fight a Thief will crap all over a HB Warrior if he catches him off guard but in a duel with all cooldowns up… A Warrior can just soak up the Thief burst with Endure Pain then the Thief either has to run or get squished. If you’re beating HB Warriors, you’re probably not playing against good ones.

Builds that can easily beat a Backstab Thief:
Bunker Guardian
Mesmer
Bunker Elementalist
100 Blades Warrior (most Backstab Thieves don’t have stun-beakers so 1 charge and it’s GG)
Hammer Warrior (just chain-stun them)
Necromancer (if he’s really good)
Pistol/Dagger Thief
Bunker Engineer with lots of knock-backs
_____________________________________

Bottom line, any profession that is either somewhat tanky or has lots of CC/knock-backs can pretty much roll over any Backstab Thief.

The only profession that seems rather kittened is the Ranger….well because they are.

Conditionmancer and power/wells Necromancer are both very good for beating thieves. You can hide behind your wells, if they enter you will own them in a straight up damage competition (with daggers or staff).

I shall assume you mean the glass cannon spam lord thiefs, as opposed to a skilled player.

Against thief noob spammers its simple. Any class can do it, just play defensively at all times. I can eat them up on my engie (which is a weak class really) but I HAVE to play the long game and avoid all the set ups they will pump at me. True of any glass cannon spec really, just slow the pace RIGHT down. Tempo is everything in this game, dont let them dictate it to you, force them to play your game.

Even on a warrior (arguable the strongest melee class) I would drop to a ranged weapon (rifle bow whatever you like) when a thief is hammering his attacks. Also, once they start spamming heart strike noob affair attack, just bail out any way you can. You will not match there power unless you are a thief or perhaps a warrior with some CDs ready to blast.

Now if its a good thief, thats more in depth and will require good use of CC and anti-CC.

Perma Retaliation bunker Necro. They will kill themselves while you still hit them kind of hard and regen enough LF to not fear death… ever.

Xiomaro.2563:

Edelweiss.9815:

Necros is Plague Form are pretty much immune to melee damage, so they’re annoying. Just run away and wait until it passes, but that’s pretty much a fight stopper.

Other than that? Bunker Guardians are annoying. They can’t kill me, but I can’t kill them either. Same thing with Ele bunkers, immortal sobs. All other bunkers are easy, just take a little bit of time to beat.

Nothing else is even a problem in 1v1. LoL at people saying 100b Warriors can beat Thieves, I can probably kill three of them by myself if I have Thieves Guild, unless they’re double rezzing each other, of course.

Sure, you can beat a HB Warrior with Thieves Guild but most Backstab Thieves don’t run Thieves Guild. In fact it’s pretty stupid to be running Thieves Guild when a huge part of Backstab is using Basilisk Venom.

In a real fight a Thief will crap all over a HB Warrior if he catches him off guard but in a duel with all cooldowns up… A Warrior can just soak up the Thief burst with Endure Pain then the Thief either has to run or get squished. If you’re beating HB Warriors, you’re probably not playing against good ones.

Thieves Guild allows me to solo any Treb support or auto-win any fight on a point quickly, I’ll take that.

Soaking up the Steal-CnD-BS combo doesn’t do much, I can reuse CnD-BS every 3 seconds and my auto attack 2nd and 3d hits crit for 2.5k on a glass cannon.

I heal for 375 every CnD and can take my sweet time, regenerating up to 1k HP every CnD and still get that BS in.

Also, my every CnD causes Blind, that’s every 3 seconds if I can land CnDs. Both sustained damage and sustained defenses are huge on a 30 Shadow Arts Thief.

Pretty much everything (If you know how to play it) not running a glass cannon build.

Archaon.6245:

Pretty much everything (If you know how to play it) not running a glass cannon build.

But i love to run a glass cannon
U cant inprove much , with a bunker spec
And if i cant kill the Thief in 2 sec too , then something is wrong

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Archaon.6245:

Pretty much everything (If you know how to play it) not running a glass cannon build.

But i love to run a glass cannon
U cant inprove much , with a bunker spec
And if i cant kill the Thief in 2 sec too , then something is wrong

I’m not saying bunker, people usually don’t understand that you can play not only bunker/glass cannons…but that there are lots of good balanced builds out there too

Hammer Warrior. Thief defense is reliant on dodging, stealth, and otherwise not getting hit. If you can lock them down, they have very low health and armor, and they die in a few hits. Most thieves take few (if any) stun breaks. The glass-cannons that burst you down will have no stun breaks at all. Once they get CC’d, they’re as good as dead.

Clone Mesmers and D/D Elementalists also do really well. However, the hardest fight I’ve ever had (to date) was against a Hammer Warrior. There are just too many AoE controls, combined with astoundingly high damage. They don’t care that I’m in stealth, because they can still smash me just fine.

Xiomaro.2563:

Edelweiss.9815:

Necros is Plague Form are pretty much immune to melee damage, so they’re annoying. Just run away and wait until it passes, but that’s pretty much a fight stopper.

Other than that? Bunker Guardians are annoying. They can’t kill me, but I can’t kill them either. Same thing with Ele bunkers, immortal sobs. All other bunkers are easy, just take a little bit of time to beat.

Nothing else is even a problem in 1v1. LoL at people saying 100b Warriors can beat Thieves, I can probably kill three of them by myself if I have Thieves Guild, unless they’re double rezzing each other, of course.

Sure, you can beat a HB Warrior with Thieves Guild but most Backstab Thieves don’t run Thieves Guild. In fact it’s pretty stupid to be running Thieves Guild when a huge part of Backstab is using Basilisk Venom.

In a real fight a Thief will crap all over a HB Warrior if he catches him off guard but in a duel with all cooldowns up… A Warrior can just soak up the Thief burst with Endure Pain then the Thief either has to run or get squished. If you’re beating HB Warriors, you’re probably not playing against good ones.

Just don’t even take the kid seriously. He bases his statements on low level play because he’s a delusional who thinks his statement matters but it doesn’t :\

Anyways… HB Warrior can be annoying for Thieves but they don’t really counter each other. The match up just favors the Warrior a little. Bleed + stun lock is something that’s potentially dangerous in a legit duel but based on practicality you won’t really see this build much on Warriors.

There are lots of class that can be anti thief. But it basically comes down to bunker builds. So you want to beat a thief play a bunker.

Basically anything that doesn’t run a Berzerker Amulet + Gem and Divinity runes build can take down the average Thief without much of a problem.

aydenunited.5729:

Basically anything that doesn’t run a Berzerker Amulet + Gem and Divinity runes build can take down the average Thief without much of a problem.

Even then, glass cannon warriors and mesmers can still do it. Thieves aren’t hard to fight, I don’t get why people refuse to learn.

Don’t be a glass cannon, and then complain about dying to another glass cannon. What part of “glass” do people not understand? Get an ounce of toughness on and suddenly your pecs can reflect bullets.

Any build with a stun break and a player with enough common sense to dodge roll heart seekers.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Any build with a stun break and a player with enough common sense to dodge roll heart seekers.

Now fight a thief that doesn’t rely on a 1.5 second stun and heartseeker to win a 1v1 encounter.

Want to know a fun fact? Good thieves rarely ever even use heartseeker.

Lightning Reflexes and sometimes Wolf’s AoE fear is all I need on my underpowered ranger to kill most glass cannon thieves in a one on one situation.

Larynx.2453:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Any build with a stun break and a player with enough common sense to dodge roll heart seekers.

Now fight a thief that doesn’t rely on a 1.5 second stun and heartseeker to win a 1v1 encounter.

Want to know a fun fact? Good thieves rarely ever even use heartseeker.

Normally a thief will use Assassin’s signet, basilisk or devourer venom, steal/mug, C&D, backstab, and use HSx2…

If the target is not dead. In tPvP most players live longer. And the debate on devourer and basilisk is solely because its a stun break now and devourer is not, and immobilizes are very stronk.

The best counter to a thief is a policeman, but when the thief builds as a glass cannon, you need to counter him with an antiterrorist.

Larynx.2453:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Any build with a stun break and a player with enough common sense to dodge roll heart seekers.

Now fight a thief that doesn’t rely on a 1.5 second stun and heartseeker to win a 1v1 encounter.

Want to know a fun fact? Good thieves rarely ever even use heartseeker.

HS is plain crap…. S/D – SBow anyday

Man what you wanna do is just be able to burst them so hard whenever they appear, that they’re scared to even go for you. Being a tanky wall doesnt help much as i’ve seen, since these little buggers also have the best escapes in the world.

Simply fight fire with fire. Shatter Mesmer babeh. See a thief? You can stun, immobilize, blurred frenzy, daze, mirror image + shatter, knockback, GS2+3 for sick burst. Hell you can even moa him for ultimate trollage as it seems to always work through stealth. But i prefer mass invis, as long as you stealth after he does he will appear first and you can resume the rapage. Shadow refuge? np GS knockback.

Larynx.2453:

Don’t be a glass cannon, and then complain about dying to another glass cannon. What part of “glass” do people not understand? Get an ounce of toughness on and suddenly your pecs can reflect bullets.

Ok i dont get this. The thieves calling other glass cannons idiots for going glass cannon are always glass cannons themselves. Do you guys have the monopoly on being glass cannon? When you come up to an ele glass cannon, he deserves to lose horribly? Because you are both glass cannons and thus the thief deserves to win? Where does this kitten come from.
Theres a couple classes that are leagues above all other glass cannons yet they keep acting like this is how its supposed to be. Necros and Guardians, ok fine maybe they arent meant to be glass cannons. But 90% of the others are eaten by you and frustrated about the tools that Thiefs are given, and all you guys say is ‘just be a thief we are supposed to be best glass cannons’. Well guess what’s happening in pvp where people arent forced into bunker specs.

GankSinatra.2653:

But 90% of the others are eaten by you and frustrated about the tools that Thiefs are given, and all you guys say is ‘just be a thief we are supposed to be best glass cannons’. Well guess what’s happening in pvp where people arent forced into bunker specs.

It feels nice not using stealth as a crutch. There is more skill involved with staff ele in spvp, and I enjoy using the abilities to support my team and adapt to situations. Players with the mentality of needing the easiest and most power will never get the satisfaction of using a difficult and intelligent profession. It’s like riding a GSXR 750 while all the sheep are on training wheels.

IMO:
Any class can beat a thief, but only if you are setup to fight one.
Problem is thieves aren’t the only class out there and aren’t the only class that you will be fighting so you don’t bring tools to solely counter the 1 thief on the opposing team.
Case#1 – On my warrior I can use hammer + shield&mace to take on any class out there but I will not win against any class without the proper utility skills. Against melee classes I can take whatever I want but against ranged classes; I need to take condition removal so that I do not get kited.

Case#2 – On my engineer I run a p/p condition build and get nuked by thieves unless I use a shield and carry elixir S [to avoid damage for 4-5s] and use the toolkit [extra 3s block; confusion & caltrops]. And to top it off; this only counters melee thieves.
If it is a bow\pistol thief or a condition thief that uses caltrops to ensure I don’t create distance; I am done for.
In tournaments; I have never had a problem winning a 1v1 fight [50% of the time their backup arrives]. Thieves are the only exception. I’m usually not prepared for them if they are guarding the point because they don’t sit on it like other classes.
They usually jump from behind a bush.

All in all it comes down to playstyle and understanding what the thief is built for and can do.

“Man what you wanna do is just be able to burst them so hard whenever they appear, that they’re scared to even go for you. Being a tanky wall doesnt help much as i’ve seen, since these little buggers also have the best escapes in the world.”

Yeah, that’s what eventually worked for my on my engi. People kept saying add toughness, which just prolonged the encounter a bit. Eventually I went full glass cannon and just unload on them hard. I try to hit them on the way in, dodge their initial rush, and hit them with everything I have. It works well with run of the mill thieves.

The problem is more strategic thieves that will burst from stealth while you’re fighting someone else, or simply run away if the fight isn’t going their way. It’s crazy to me that damaging them doesn’t unstealth them. I think that takes away a lot of the skill of using a stealth class.

GankSinatra.2653:

Larynx.2453:

Don’t be a glass cannon, and then complain about dying to another glass cannon. What part of “glass” do people not understand? Get an ounce of toughness on and suddenly your pecs can reflect bullets.

Ok i dont get this. The thieves calling other glass cannons idiots for going glass cannon are always glass cannons themselves. Do you guys have the monopoly on being glass cannon? When you come up to an ele glass cannon, he deserves to lose horribly? Because you are both glass cannons and thus the thief deserves to win? Where does this kitten come from.
Theres a couple classes that are leagues above all other glass cannons yet they keep acting like this is how its supposed to be. Necros and Guardians, ok fine maybe they arent meant to be glass cannons. But 90% of the others are eaten by you and frustrated about the tools that Thiefs are given, and all you guys say is ‘just be a thief we are supposed to be best glass cannons’. Well guess what’s happening in pvp where people arent forced into bunker specs.

I wouldn’t say Thieves have the monopoly on going GC, but they are the best at it (due to how Initative and other things work). Elementalists make awesome bunkers and okay GC. Thieves make awesome GC and okay bunkers. See how it works?

Zunhar.4079:

GankSinatra.2653:

Larynx.2453:

Don’t be a glass cannon, and then complain about dying to another glass cannon. What part of “glass” do people not understand? Get an ounce of toughness on and suddenly your pecs can reflect bullets.

Ok i dont get this. The thieves calling other glass cannons idiots for going glass cannon are always glass cannons themselves. Do you guys have the monopoly on being glass cannon? When you come up to an ele glass cannon, he deserves to lose horribly? Because you are both glass cannons and thus the thief deserves to win? Where does this kitten come from.
Theres a couple classes that are leagues above all other glass cannons yet they keep acting like this is how its supposed to be. Necros and Guardians, ok fine maybe they arent meant to be glass cannons. But 90% of the others are eaten by you and frustrated about the tools that Thiefs are given, and all you guys say is ‘just be a thief we are supposed to be best glass cannons’. Well guess what’s happening in pvp where people arent forced into bunker specs.

I wouldn’t say Thieves have the monopoly on going GC, but they are the best at it (due to how Initative and other things work). Elementalists make awesome bunkers and okay GC. Thieves make awesome GC and okay bunkers. See how it works?

Every class can play a role, guardians bunkers and support, eles bunkers, support and some dmg, eng again bunkers and support, thieves can’t play good bunkers…they can only go for pressure (bleed, daze etc) or spike (BS)…sure that if someone wants to play a single target spike spec on a class not designed for it, and he dies vs someone who has everything made for it…it’s just normal

I think 100b warriors can do well against them a single combo probably does it.

Archaon.6245:

Every class can play a role, guardians bunkers and support, eles bunkers, support and some dmg, eng again bunkers and support, thieves can’t play good bunkers…they can only go for pressure (bleed, daze etc) or spike (BS)…sure that if someone wants to play a single target spike spec on a class not designed for it, and he dies vs someone who has everything made for it…it’s just normal

U never know , until u try :P
U can equip ur Soldier rune + get the Feline Grace + the Wild strike + any other evasive atack(death blossom + aply bleeds) or daze or black powder pistol attack and make a rotation .
+ Traits that restore Initiative , and try to bunk :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Archaon.6245:

Every class can play a role, guardians bunkers and support, eles bunkers, support and some dmg, eng again bunkers and support, thieves can’t play good bunkers…they can only go for pressure (bleed, daze etc) or spike (BS)…sure that if someone wants to play a single target spike spec on a class not designed for it, and he dies vs someone who has everything made for it…it’s just normal

U never know , until u try :P
U can equip ur Soldier rune + get the Feline Grace + the Wild strike + any other evasive atack(death blossom + aply bleeds) or daze or black powder pistol attack and make a rotation .
+ Traits that restore Initiative , and try to bunk :P

You absolutely cannot play a bunker thief (at a TPvP level at least). I’ve tried at least 50 different combinations of traits, runes, utilities, playstyles…etc.

That’s not to say a thief cant be survivable – the problem is your biggest “bunker” style abilities trigger from being in stealth. Can’t hold a point in stealth, can’t bunker.

We also have no access to protection or aegis, and unless you want to dagger storm and immediately dodge roll, stability. Even at max toughness and good healing power (Shamans ammy with toughness/vit runes), you melt without consistently stealthing for regen and condition cleanses.

Our other defensive mechanic (being very mobile/dodgy) pulls you off the point too much.

As far i know , with dodge u dont get any damage
The same aply to evasive attacks

Quick Pockets when u change weapons u get 3 Inenactive (no stealth needed)
Quick Recovery:Gain 2 initiative every 10 seconds ( no stealth)
Hastened Replenishment: You receive 4 initiative when using a heal skill. (prefered with withdraw heal) ( no stealth needed)
Infitrator singet 1 every 10 sec (no stealth needed)

Initial Strike: Attacks with the first weapon-skill slot have a 7% chance to regain 1 initiative. (screw it > too low chance)

Dodge > 2 attacks with dagger > deathblosom > repeat doesnt work ?
On the Svanir on the mist , looks prety sweet

evilapprentice.6379:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Archaon.6245:

Every class can play a role, guardians bunkers and support, eles bunkers, support and some dmg, eng again bunkers and support, thieves can’t play good bunkers…they can only go for pressure (bleed, daze etc) or spike (BS)…sure that if someone wants to play a single target spike spec on a class not designed for it, and he dies vs someone who has everything made for it…it’s just normal

U never know , until u try :P
U can equip ur Soldier rune + get the Feline Grace + the Wild strike + any other evasive atack(death blossom + aply bleeds) or daze or black powder pistol attack and make a rotation .
+ Traits that restore Initiative , and try to bunk :P

You absolutely cannot play a bunker thief (at a TPvP level at least). I’ve tried at least 50 different combinations of traits, runes, utilities, playstyles…etc.

That’s not to say a thief cant be survivable – the problem is your biggest “bunker” style abilities trigger from being in stealth. Can’t hold a point in stealth, can’t bunker.

We also have no access to protection or aegis, and unless you want to dagger storm and immediately dodge roll, stability. Even at max toughness and good healing power (Shamans ammy with toughness/vit runes), you melt without consistently stealthing for regen and condition cleanses.

Our other defensive mechanic (being very mobile/dodgy) pulls you off the point too much.

That was my point to Gank Sinatra. Different classes have different strengths. Being a GC is the strength of a Thief.

“Best Anti-Thief Class/spec?”

largely depends upon the spec of the thief

Skill is the best counter for anything.