Guild Wars 2

There’s no denying that Rampage got a major buff this balance patch. That being said, Warrior as a whole took a big hit in the support department. Shouts now heal for a negligible amount even when using healing power focused ammys, and Warhorn no longer converts condis. I’m going to be looking at the Warrior class under the assumption that we won’t be getting any major balance changes any time soon.

Currently, Warrior is good at the following:

• Crowd Control – AoE and single target

They are decent at:

• Damage – Single target and cleave. Rampage is Great damage but if you know how to avoid/counter it then it’s not a huge threat. The build in my sig does have potentially high damage but only if you can land a full combo.

• Sustain – when built for it

• Mobility – but only on flat ground

• Condi removal – so long as you can land your burst skills

• Team support – but not really that amazing post nerf

Right now, I would say the only real thing keeping Warrior relevant is the strength of Rampage and Battle Standard. Even before the nerfs many of those items in the “decent” category were the same strength proportionate as they are now. The major change is that Team Support used to be in a Amazing category.

Yes, you can still run Shoutbow with a Cleric or Crusader ammy and still have good support. Losing that bruiser aspect that the Cele ammy carried (as much as I hated it) is what kept the class viable.

If Rampage gets nerfed, or all the new Mesmers learn to bring Moa whenever they see a Warrior on the enemy team their usefulness of the class will be almost as low as Ranger. Especially since Mantra Mesmers now bring very easy to land and effective CC.

Even if Mes took a hit in the damage and sustain departments they would still be a better choice to bring on your team over a War. In fact, even MediGuard brings way more team support while also doing great damage and having great sustain.

Warrior NEEDS the old mix of support/sustain/damage with a side of CC to remain viable. The best hope for this imo is a revival of Hambow. If possible, I’d rather avoid bringing back the Cele Shoutbow snoozefest but I would rather Warriors have a place in the meta than none at all.

Something like this would be preferable imo.

There’s a few things keeping this build from viability. The most obvious is that Shouts now have too low of healing. I find the fact that they nerfed them while upping the overall game damage to be…confusing.

The other major issue is the fact that Merciless Hammer is competing with Burst Mastery. Regaining that 1 bar after Combustive Shot so that you can quickly follow up with Earthshaker to give out AoE Might is very important. However, if you neglect MH then the timing of your Hammer combos become clunky.

A possible solution to this is a buff to Inspiring Banners and moving it to GM in exchange for MH. I wrote about this possibility here. This would also open up an option for a more pure support Warrior with Shouts and a Banner (2 with elite).

Oh, and “To the Limit” needs a bug fix (doesn’t cleanse a condi with Soldier runes) and possibly a functionality change. Since Shouts already give adrenaline, having it give adrenaline seems counterproductive. Maybe remove that part and make the endurance part refill the entire bar for all allies around you. That would make it unique and hopefully worth taking over Healing Signet.

While I play almost every class now (finally made a Ele), I only feel confident about commenting on what Warrior needs to stay viable. I want to see Ranger and Necro have a place in the meta as well, but I don’t play them often enough to comment on what they need (although I’m enjoying Trap Ranger with the revive trait atm).

Honestly, while I like Warrior the only thing keeping me from switching fully over to guard is the fact that I have put so much time onto War in terms of looks/weapon skins and just general love to drop the class. I would rather “skill-less” builds like Hambow or Shoutbow come back and be viable then have the class be reduced to just their elites.

Take a look at the PvP meta builds and aside from Shoutbow, they all use at least 2 of the 3 hard counter stances, along with either Rampage or Battle Standard. Pretty much no decent alternatives.

how is warrior good at CC again?….
you have chaos storm, earthquake,updraft. steal, mantra, daze shatter, iwave, doom, reaper’s mark, overcharged shot, hammer ring, banish. there’s cc that goes through stab like steal and shatter, and there’s corruption for counter stab CC and there’s CC that works on down body like updraft, banish etc….and there’s unblockable CC, like venom with choke gas..and magnetic pull..

not sure how hammer and mace and shield are any good at CC…

BurrTheKing.8571:

Currently, Warrior is good at the following:

• Crowd Control – AoE and single target

They are decent at:

• Damage – Single target and cleave. Rampage is Great damage but if you know how to avoid/counter it then it’s not a huge threat. The build in my sig does have potentially high damage but only if you can land a full combo.

• Sustain – when built for it

• Mobility – but only on flat ground

• Condi removal – so long as you can land your burst skills

• Team support – but not really that amazing post nerf
  …
  Warrior NEEDS the old mix of support/sustain/damage with a side of CC to remain viable. The best hope for this imo is a revival of Hambow. If possible, I’d rather avoid bringing back the Cele Shoutbow snoozefest but I would rather Warriors have a place in the meta than none at all.

As a non-warrior player, I feel like warrior already has a good mix of support/sustain/damage and some CC; that’s what they’ve always been about. I am curious what specifically makes them not have those things right now?

CC with hammer, damage and mobility with GS, insane damage with quickness and rampage, insane survivability with stances. To me they seem like a class that other classes should be balanced like—a great all-rounder with game-changing cooldowns, but appropriately die without them when trained. I think other classes need to be like this, not be running around with insane escape/survivability/on-demand burst without long, appropriate cooldowns to keep the power creep in check.

Warrior has always been about that second wind, keep pushing on to victory, go berserk and defy all odds playstyle, and as an outsider they seem to be decent at that right now. Going back to celestial/shout bow is like saying warriors need to become more like ele and mesmer, but they don’t. Ele and mesmer need to become more like warrior imo.

As far as rampage: It’s either just okay or insane depending on the class. If you can disengage/invuln/blind, great. If you have low mobility (think necro) you’re utterly screwed. In some cases rampage is fine or even underwhelming, but other times it’s an unstoppable killing machine. I think low-mobility classes like necro and power ranger just need a way to at least soft counter rampage. Several other classes don’t need anything to be fine against it.

To be viable in today’s PvP you have to either roll with build that flows well with Celestial, like Celementalist or have access to short cooldown, high instant damage with instant CC and barely any telegraphs.

Both Necromancer (outside of stupid procs) and Warrior rely on telegraphed actions and are slower.

That’s also the reason why Revenant sucked so hard when it faced Mesmers, Thieves etc.
It simply did not have enough non-telegraphed damage and CC, everything had a clear tell and cast time.

I wish Arena Net solved this rather long-time issue with the combat system and put more emphasis on their core ideas, but hey. It’s what we’ve got.

I actually agree. without rampage, I think any warrior would be as relevant as my ranger, at which point I think i’d rather play the ranger. it’s gonna take some work, I don’t think rampage needs a nerf but other aspects of the warrior need to be competitive choices as well.

Why should rampage be nerf’ed? I really like zerker warrior being viable in the meta, essentially competing with mesmers and medi guards.

I am fine with certain classes not in the meta, aka ranger. That class is too poorly designed. The pet mechanics needs an overhaul.

Just need some balance tweaks and bug fixes and I can see a much more exciting meta compared to the previous shoutbow meta which I hate so much.

Exciton.8942:

Why should rampage be nerf’ed? I really like zerker warrior being viable in the meta, essentially competing with mesmers and medi guards.

I am fine with certain classes not in the meta, aka ranger. That class is too poorly designed. The pet mechanics needs an overhaul.

Just need some balance tweaks and bug fixes and I can see a much more exciting meta compared to the previous shoutbow meta which I hate so much.

It’s not about it just possibly being nerfed, it’s also about players wising up and learning to just bring Moa or how to counter it in general. Once its effectiveness is marginalized, what does War bring to the table that another class doesn’t do better?

In the past, Hambow brought CC and AoE Might. Shoutbow brought a ton of cleanse/might/decent damage. What does Hammer/GS bring? OK mobility and damage with CC sure, but what about what it does for the team? Mesmer/Teef does better in terms of mobility/damage and they also bring AoE stealth, portals, boon stripping, etc. Same with Guardian, I can make a MediGuard with good damage AND team support.

Currently, most meta builds bring something to the team in terms of support. With weak Shouts, War has lost that support except for Battle Standard. Heck, I played as a Trap Ranger last night and I brought good team support in the form of Healing Spring and the trait that activates “Search and Rescue” when I revive.

Rampage should not be nerfed, it is easily counterable and Warriors are near the bottom of the barrel in viability right now.

Exciton.8942:

Why should rampage be nerf’ed? I really like zerker warrior being viable in the meta, essentially competing with mesmers and medi guards.

I am fine with certain classes not in the meta, aka ranger. That class is too poorly designed. The pet mechanics needs an overhaul.

Rampage being meta over getting to actually use warrior skills in a diverse and skillful way is bad design. Rampage should just be removed and warriors should have their actual skills buffed so we can play a video game instead of facerolling.

Agreed, rampage is fine. It is super strong but at least a third of the time a class I am going up against is prepared with ample stability and/or skills. My whole build is based on knockdowns (I have 5 on my bar), half the time I am stomping and laughing or stomping and crying. Either way, I enjoy the build.

Why take rampage away? Just step up and counter it.

I like this build for warriors. Its hard to deal with 1v1 on point when they pop double endure pain, but its pretty obvious when they are going to charge at you. strong and counterable. its perfect

BurrTheKing.8571:

Exciton.8942:

Why should rampage be nerf’ed? I really like zerker warrior being viable in the meta, essentially competing with mesmers and medi guards.

I am fine with certain classes not in the meta, aka ranger. That class is too poorly designed. The pet mechanics needs an overhaul.

Just need some balance tweaks and bug fixes and I can see a much more exciting meta compared to the previous shoutbow meta which I hate so much.

It’s not about it just possibly being nerfed, it’s also about players wising up and learning to just bring Moa or how to counter it in general. Once its effectiveness is marginalized, what does War bring to the table that another class doesn’t do better?

In the past, Hambow brought CC and AoE Might. Shoutbow brought a ton of cleanse/might/decent damage. What does Hammer/GS bring? OK mobility and damage with CC sure, but what about what it does for the team? Mesmer/Teef does better in terms of mobility/damage and they also bring AoE stealth, portals, boon stripping, etc. Same with Guardian, I can make a MediGuard with good damage AND team support.

Currently, most meta builds bring something to the team in terms of support. With weak Shouts, War has lost that support except for Battle Standard. Heck, I played as a Trap Ranger last night and I brought good team support in the form of Healing Spring and the trait that activates “Search and Rescue” when I revive.

Hammer/GS warrior has better mobility than medi guard and has better sustain over mesmer/thief.

Mesmer/thief combo is strong but they have little on-point presence given how much they rely on stealth/distortion and porting in-and-out.

Also I feel with current rampage at low cool down, the warrior can do more risky play than medi guard and potentially put out more damage pressure. More access to quickness after the patch also helps GS/Hammer a lot since many of the skills have big and slow animations.

Having Moa as counterplay is fine. Given that rampage form is really strong, there needs to be some limitations. Warrior player needs to think carefully where he should go instead of just rampage into anything. In the end, it depends on who has the better rotation and I think this is exactly what the conquest mode is all about.

Exciton.8942:

Hammer/GS warrior has better mobility than medi guard and has better sustain over mesmer/thief. [/quote]

does it matter?
it’s like saying bunker warrior has better mobility than bunker guard
but does it really matter?…

lighter.2708:

Exciton.8942:

Hammer/GS warrior has better mobility than medi guard and has better sustain over mesmer/thief.

does it matter?
it’s like saying bunker warrior has better mobility than bunker guard
but does it really matter?…[/quote]

Of course it matters. Mobility is a crucial part of this game no matter what role you plays.

Exciton.8942:

lighter.2708:

Exciton.8942:

Hammer/GS warrior has better mobility than medi guard and has better sustain over mesmer/thief.

does it matter?
it’s like saying bunker warrior has better mobility than bunker guard
but does it really matter?…

Of course it matters. Mobility is a crucial part of this game no matter what role you plays.[/quote]

that’s definitely why everyone is using a bunker warrior instead of bunker guard.
oh wait.

Before the patch I had fun playing warrior, after patch I don’t see reason to play warrior just for one elite skill once every 3 mins. I still would nerf rampage though.

Warrior atm is in good condition, it’s just outplayed by mesmers, which burst does double the dmg warrior does, in half of the time. And they sure can burst you way more often then once every 3 mins. Rampage compensates the lack of dps compared to mesmers. But after all, it’s still not fun to be dependant on only 1 skill with 180sec cd.

This is a good post. I’ve noticed that without rampage, and without 100bladesing a rez attempt, warrior isn’t all that great or scary to me.

lighter.2708:

how is warrior good at CC again?….
you have chaos storm, earthquake,updraft. steal, mantra, daze shatter, iwave, doom, reaper’s mark, overcharged shot, hammer ring, banish. there’s cc that goes through stab like steal and shatter, and there’s corruption for counter stab CC and there’s CC that works on down body like updraft, banish etc….and there’s unblockable CC, like venom with choke gas..and magnetic pull..

not sure how hammer and mace and shield are any good at CC…

Because unlike some other classes, you can perfectly chain CCs to an extent that the person you’re targeting can only escape if they have stab or invulns.

Also warriors can get unblockability if they wanted to.

I hate playing as one, but I fight Warriors all the time. Rampage is fine.

Rampage is totaly Fine. I lost my fun playing Warrior in the Shoutbow Meta and im happy to have now the option to play DPS again. In many Situations, especily in 1 vs 1 situations good players know how to counter my rampage and im not getting anything from it.
But in other situations. When they dont see me coming. Rampage is often Gamechanging and just Facerolling.
Who thinks that rampage is the only reason to play this build is making something absolutly wrong. You can win a lot of fights without rampage and thx to GS you can go in and out of a fight in seconds. The mobility is great on the dps build. its true that you have no support, but not every class must have support.
I would change nothing on rampage at the moment. not aslong it can be countered that easy from so many classes. people just have to learn how to play against it. Most time against not so good players i see that they pop everything and try to get away. i can easy stay on them and kill them after the skills disappear. against good thiefs, celestial Necros or good d/d eles i cant do alot in rampage. blinds, or stealth are really strong against me and a thief just can move away.

Reality is, warrior was a better designed class before the patch. I used to run GS+HM+Shouts and was perfectly viable, condi builds were perfectly viable, cookie cutter build was perfectly viable.

Today you have only 1 build: Double endure pain+rampage. Thats it, everything else is just decoration on those 2 things, you remove them and the warrior is useless.

As damage stands, shouts need to heal 2k base to even be considered sub par.

Apolo.5942:

Today you have only 1 build: Double endure pain+rampage. Thats it, everything else is just decoration on those 2 things, you remove them and the warrior is useless.

Sad, but true. I’ve been trying a lot of different builds, and while so are fun and have their uses (this right here can easily be kited but with proper support Eles just die once they use their Armor of Earth and Lightning Flash), they still don’t have the utility that GS/Hammer or Skullcracker (which is basically the same build if I’m honest) brings with double EP.

I would honestly be happy if they brought back Hambow (just make Merciless Hammer a Master and buff Inspiring Banners and make it GM) and even Shoutbow. I’m at the point where I don’t care how “skillful” a build is, just so long as it’s viable. There’s some fun gimmick builds to be had, but I’m in a small minority that actually enjoys playing them (like Weakness and Distracting Strikes builds).

The Arms line LOOKS good, but condi builds just aren’t viable. Same with Tactis traits like Powerful Synergy. It’s a cool concept but double duration isn’t that impressive. Make the finishers twice as effective (2 stacks of burn and 2 might when hit with fire shield) and MAYBE our condi builds would be worthwhile. Actually no, they wouldn’t. The second you start fighting a Necro they’ll just passively send all your condis back to you.