Guild Wars 2

I just came out of a tourny game where we gave up majority of map buffs to the enemy and lost. My party immediately blamed our loss on our comp having 2 thieves. I asked why, they said " i don’t know but its usually the reason" .

Thieves offer easy stomps, spike dmg and great roaming. Thieves imo are one of the stronger classes. Yet people consistently blame losses on the group composition having 2 thieves.

Why is this? I get that thieves can’t bunker bases, but I don’t see most people hold bases down all game long unless the specifically build for that task.

Thieves are a total menace – if played right.

I guess that person was bitter that he came across a pub stomper who thought he could play with the big boys and failed, and has held that anti-Thief grudge ever since.

Auesis.7301:

Thieves are a total menace – if played right.

This.

A lot of players already hate the thief for “teh OPness”. When they lose matches, they need some scapegoat to be able to blame, and the thief (in spite of being so “OP”) fills that niche completely; our uses aren’t instantly apparent to a lot of other classes. Thieves are very strong in offensive situations, and, contrary to your post, actually, they can be fairly good at holding points.

It’s really not an issue against average competition. If you were both solo queue groups, guy probably was just being dumb. However, it’s a valid complaint if you’re playing good players.

They offer the things you listed, but if have you more than 1 you will struggle in your team fights. They have to sit back and shortbow, and if they try to brawl in a big fight they will drop very fast to aoe or focus damage. If you lose the team fight, you’re gonna fall behind in the match. It doesn’t do your team any good if you have to bail to live but the rest of them get wiped.

Good players know how to mitigate burst, so it’s harder to pull it off. You need a team to help set it up. S/D doesn’t have that problem, but they have the same issues with eating damage in a big fight.

You only need 1 or 2 true roamers, which is what the thief’s role usually comes down to.

Also, thieves aren’t good at holding points. What thief build are you going to hold a point with? You can’t use stealth. D/D evasion? That falls apart against competent players past a 1v1. S/D evasion? That needs room to work with and won’t be able to hold on to a small point for too long. If you are building a thief to hold a point, you could be playing a class that does it better.

Guy also probably said that cause a lot of thieves he sees are bad. As a solo roamer you need great individual decision making, and as a thief you need better positioning and setup than some of the other classes. Many thieves don’t have that, and just want to Rambo in bursting people whenever they want. Doesn’t work against good people.

Nettle.9025:

It’s really not an issue against average competition. If you were both solo queue groups, guy probably was just being dumb. However, it’s a valid complaint if you’re playing good players.

They offer the things you listed, but if have you more than 1 you will struggle in your team fights. They have to sit back and shortbow, and if they try to brawl in a big fight they will drop very fast to aoe or focus damage. If you lose the team fight, you’re gonna fall behind in the match. It doesn’t do your team any good if you have to bail to live but the rest of them get wiped.

Good players know how to mitigate burst, so it’s harder to pull it off. You need a team to help set it up. S/D doesn’t have that problem, but they have the same issues with eating damage in a big fight.

You only need 1 or 2 true roamers, which is what the thief’s role usually comes down to.

Also, thieves aren’t good at holding points. What thief build are you going to hold a point with? You can’t use stealth. D/D evasion? That falls apart against competent players past a 1v1. S/D evasion? That needs room to work with and won’t be able to hold on to a small point for too long. If you are building a thief to hold a point, you could be playing a class that does it better.

Guy also probably said that cause a lot of thieves he sees are bad. As a solo roamer you need great individual decision making, and as a thief you need better positioning and setup than some of the other classes. Many thieves don’t have that, and just want to Rambo in bursting people whenever they want. Doesn’t work against good people.

Pretty much this.

A single thief is a quite good choice in a comp ( altough currently i believe there are better options, like S/D eles, and other roles can be easily filled by other professions), but having two, no matters the build, is redundant.

I guess its because thieves have no real staying power on points, thus having many of them can be counter productive. This is assuming high level teams, and if its solo q, then it matters not at all. Not saying thieves are weak mind, they are very good at some roles, not so good in others.

Try to stack loads of bunkers, it doesnt work. Stacking most classes or build styles can be a problem (excluding mesmers, Star Wars II build, annoying as hell haha)

The only problem I have with thieves is there’s really nothing I can do as a condition necromancer to consistently survive against their the chain of blinds. I can live through the first initiative dump, but at that point a thief will usually restealth, pool initiative, and attack again. Since my class has poor mobility, I mostly have to take it if Plague — a three-minute cooldown — isn’t up.

I understand that it’s supposed to massively pressure me when a thief uses that much initiative, but being chain blinded while taking massive burst since the blind also enables backstab seems like too much against my class.

From a philosophical standpoint, I would never allow a class to have a blind and daze with no cooldown, even if it comes at heavy resource cost.

Then again, if that was taken away, thieves would need substantial survivability buffs to make up for it, so I’m not totally sure how I would go about comprehensively fixing this problem.

I also understand that this situation is mostly against my class and other classes don’t have a problem against thieves. In fact, from what I understand, thieves are mediocre at best in high-end, fully organized structured PvP, so maybe I’m just not seeing through my own class bias. Maybe there is no problem, or the problem is necromancers, not thieves.

Hexs.8015:

I just came out of a tourny game where we gave up majority of map buffs to the enemy and lost. My party immediately blamed our loss on our comp having 2 thieves. I asked why, they said " i don’t know but its usually the reason" .

Thieves offer easy stomps, spike dmg and great roaming. Thieves imo are one of the stronger classes. Yet people consistently blame losses on the group composition having 2 thieves.

Why is this? I get that thieves can’t bunker bases, but I don’t see most people hold bases down all game long unless the specifically build for that task.

Thieves are an exploit class bordering on hacks. If a player can’t utilize the exploits and broken mechanics to its fullest then people get kitten because you think your just fotm class player.

Stomping while stealthed or shadowstep stomping
rezzing while stealthed
perma stealth and repeated stealth during combat if needed
group stealth as a skill utility and not an elite
high damage
stealth allowing you to get away with being a glass cannon
no cooldown on weapon skills, the initiative system is a joke. Everyone wants to spam their favourite weapon skill.
Ability to reset fights
healing/condition removal during stealth
stealth doesn’t break on healing, getting hit, using skills and even attacking (B.Powder+heartseaker combo)
Unlimited stun breakers on sword (shadowstepping/return)
Almost infinite range on teleportation hacks(shadow stepping) with zero cooldowns on sword.

Of course teams will expect more from you and not to mention 2.

No worries though, pvpers are getting bored with the imbalance and lack of group synergy and will be moving on.

Arganthium.5638:

Auesis.7301:

Thieves are a total menace – if played right.

This.

A lot of players already hate the thief for “teh OPness”. When they lose matches, they need some scapegoat to be able to blame, and the thief (in spite of being so “OP”) fills that niche completely; our uses aren’t instantly apparent to a lot of other classes. Thieves are very strong in offensive situations, and, contrary to your post, actually, they can be fairly good at holding points.

Thieves are very strong when the opponents aren’t built to handle them. When they are built to handle them, Thieves become incredibly worthless. Thieves only have a couple of overpowered skills, once you get passed those, they’re very bad.

Hexs.8015:

I just came out of a tourny game where we gave up majority of map buffs to the enemy and lost. My party immediately blamed our loss on our comp having 2 thieves. I asked why, they said " i don’t know but its usually the reason" .

You just said it, “gave up majority of map buffs to enemy”, you have 2 thieves the best at roaming and maneuvering around that map, but they didn’t do there jobs and get the buffs.

Do you expect the bunker to go and leave his point to get the buff???

After simply playing tournaments for a while, I’ve come to the same conclusion: more than one thief on a team just isn’t that great.

It hit home for me one night – I was playing on a good team with another thief. I watched him, and he was great; dealing damage yet staying alive for insane amounts of time. And then there was me, doing my part. We did everything right, but even when we won it was… frustrating.

Your party may have had similar experiences, even if they weren’t able to tell you exactly why.

Hexs- had some great matches with you last night. You where not the issue with the team. We had some great players but we communicated poorly. Thief’s was defiantly not the issue especially yourself. Problem was the other team communicated much better and they assisted on the points better then we did. I not once got help at the gate from anyone other then you and by the time we figured out a strategy and made a come back it was too late. I remember that one game where we where down 97 t0 300+ and finished the game 470 to 500. We rocked it at the end for sure but it was to late. Keep up the good game play.

ppl cant make up there minds…

If they die to a thief then the thief must be OP and come to the forums crying out loud for nerfs.

If they have a thief in they’re team then thieves are horrible and drag the team down with them…

ah.. the internet…

If you dont understand why then maybe you should not be playing tournes, just lately theres been a real influx of bad players in tournes.

theres been a real influx of bad players in tournes.

Bane- I hear you there. I have seen so many sub level 10 players most of which are new to tpvp and are not good, they run around aimlessly. This is why its more important then ever right now to group up and create a pre made. Solo queue is tough right now.

Hexs.8015:

I just came out of a tourny game where we gave up majority of map buffs to the enemy and lost. My party immediately blamed our loss on our comp having 2 thieves. I asked why, they said " i don’t know but its usually the reason" .

Thieves offer easy stomps, spike dmg and great roaming. Thieves imo are one of the stronger classes. Yet people consistently blame losses on the group composition having 2 thieves.

Why is this? I get that thieves can’t bunker bases, but I don’t see most people hold bases down all game long unless the specifically build for that task.

Team Curse uses 2 thieves comp they seem to do well (maybe too well).

pretty sure 2 squishy thieves who go melee at gate just get eaten alive by engy nades and thats prolly what was happening to your 2 thieves on your team so the guy got mad

I have no clue whether or not it was the case in this instance but having 2 thieves on your side in a pug match certainly can be a main reason you lose if the skill level on both sides is fairly even and one side has a much more balanced comp. How can it not be a factor in those instances? Thieves are mediocre and do not stack well. Unpleasant truths shouldn’t be swept under the rug. 2 Warriors can doom you too again if they skill levels of both sides are close and one side is more balanced with stronger classes. 2 Necros to a lesser extent as well. For this not be the case every class would have to be perfectly balanced. It does matter what classes people play and what classes you have versus what classes they have. Sure you can overcome it if you are better but sometimes things are close skill wise and thats when it comes in to play very significantly.

Simple, because everybody hates thiefs.

GankSinatra.2653:

Simple, because everybody hates thiefs.

This pretty much sums it up yeah.
For those saying having 2 thieves is counterproductive and can make you loose a match it’s pure BS. I have won so many matches with 2 thieves in a group. It’s more intellect over group composition imho. It’s more knowing that capping is essential, fighting on the cap points are prime and not skirmishing in the midst of nowhere which is most of the time what new comers do and by doing so pull the team down with those simple mistakes. I think it’s more this. But of course, when we loose who do we blame ? The most hated profession in Gw2.

Windfury.3598:

GankSinatra.2653:

Simple, because everybody hates thiefs.

This pretty much sums it up yeah.
For those saying having 2 thieves is counterproductive and can make you loose a match it’s pure BS. I have won so many matches with 2 thieves in a group. It’s more intellect over group composition imho. It’s more knowing that capping is essential, fighting on the cap points are prime and not skirmishing in the midst of nowhere which is most of the time what new comers do and by doing so pull the team down with those simple mistakes. I think it’s more this. But of course, when we loose who do we blame ? The most hated profession in Gw2.

That is not fully true , i see people mostly pointing fingers at there opponents being OP builds when they loos.
And if they know its not a OP build , then they point the middle finger to the thief in there party :P

else i fully agree with you

2 thieves is worth nothing, one is fine (Good roaming, downing already focused players, shadow refuge res and so on) but if you bring two vs ANY decent team you’re basically fighting 4vs5…plus the one you take must be really good, otherwise you can drop him for other classes already..

Archaon.6245:

2 thieves is worth nothing, one is fine (Good roaming, downing already focused players, shadow refuge res and so on) but if you bring two vs ANY decent team you’re basically fighting 4vs5…plus the one you take must be really good, otherwise you can drop him for other classes already..

Still disagree 2 is definetly ok. In theory what you’re saying does make sense but in practice 2 thieves in a group is a reality in tpvp and matches can still be won that way.

Void.4239:

Windfury.3598:

GankSinatra.2653:

Simple, because everybody hates thiefs.

This pretty much sums it up yeah.
For those saying having 2 thieves is counterproductive and can make you loose a match it’s pure BS. I have won so many matches with 2 thieves in a group. It’s more intellect over group composition imho. It’s more knowing that capping is essential, fighting on the cap points are prime and not skirmishing in the midst of nowhere which is most of the time what new comers do and by doing so pull the team down with those simple mistakes. I think it’s more this. But of course, when we loose who do we blame ? The most hated profession in Gw2.

That is not fully true , i see people mostly pointing fingers at there opponents being OP builds when they loos.
And if they know its not a OP build , then they point the middle finger to the thief in there party :P

else i fully agree with you

Hehe

A good thief is a great addition to any team. We have roaming abilities that make other professions cry, and we have that nice burst needed as a solo roamer.

But it’s common to blame the thief. If the thief kill anyone it’s OP, if the team loses – well…

Windfury.3598:

Archaon.6245:

2 thieves is worth nothing, one is fine (Good roaming, downing already focused players, shadow refuge res and so on) but if you bring two vs ANY decent team you’re basically fighting 4vs5…plus the one you take must be really good, otherwise you can drop him for other classes already..

Still disagree 2 is definetly ok. In theory what you’re saying does make sense but in practice 2 thieves in a group is a reality in tpvp and matches can still be won that way.

Well you can win something even with 2 guards and 3 wars maybe..but it doesn’t really mean it’s a good way to go xD

generally thieves will just spam 2 2 2 2 2 until the end of time
once we learn this it becomes laughably easy to deal with these thieves (immobilize) lolz.
sure a decent thief can be a good roamer/spiker/stomper,
but for every decent thief there will be 222 more thieves that ju2t 2pam 2!