Guild Wars 2

After a long time of playing I think that one of the main problems with the game’s balance can be easily solved through allowing more classes reliable boon removal.

After playing classes like necro and mesmer who have boon removal if they should like to use it it has become pretty obvious to me that every class should really have access to this to allow counter play and to break down bunkers more easily. I know there are sigils to strip boons but if you aren’t running a critical strike using build (low crit or not crit focused) they are near useless. Sigils should not dictate boon removal completely for any class. Sigils are an addition to your build, not a definition of it.

Boons are extremely powerful things and are less able to be applied (generally speaking) than conditions are. I think that being able to remove these powerful buffs with well times attacks is paramount to the balance of the game. These are some changes that I think would largely improve the balance of GW2 Spvp/tpvp. There are a few other things other than boon changed that i want to address quickly before moving on to the main topic.

Firstly a suggestion or two in the general sense of the game:
#1: Let us see the % damage reduction our defense/toughness is giving to us in the Hero tab. I need to know how much that extra 273 toughness is giving me (made up number) compared to the 300 power im getting in trade (another made up number). These types of tools are useful and need to be implemented.

#2: Place a dps/healing/boon and condition removal/damage mitigated/ crit highs/crit lows/ all of the things that track stats of combat and what we do in a log. This is not a DPS meter, this is a statistical log in the hero panel to be used to calculative information to min/max builds. You are the only person who can see your log.

#3: Improve scaling of toughness, reduce protection to 25% (down from 33%).
REASON: 33% is too much for a single buff, especially one that everyone doesn’t have access to (cough cough warrior, the only class who cant use protection). So much suvivability should not rely on when one boon is simply up or not. 25% is noticeable, does the job, and is far more fair, allowing for toughness to feel truly protective.

Warrior
-Kick: Strips 2 boons when you hit someone with kick. (add 10 seconds of cooldown)
-Fear Me: Strips 1 boon on all feared targets.
-Berserker Stance: Your strikes have a 20% chance to remove a boon while stance is active, cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

Ranger
-Sick Em!: Your pet’s next 2 attacks also remove a boon.
-Black Widow Paralyzing Venom(same as jungle spider right now): Change to “Neurotoxin”: Convert 1 boon into a condition instead of stunning.
-Pink Moa Dazing shriek(same as black moa right now): Change to Nullifying Shriek, removes a boon in a cone.
-Sharpening Stone: Bleed with next 5 attacks, remove a boon with next 1 attack.

Elementalist:
-Arcane Blast: Removes a boon.
-(edit to include a conjure) Magnetic Shield: add boon stripping (1) to the dazing charge.
-Signet of Fire: Removes 2 boons from your target (no longer burns, deals damage on cast)

Engineer:
-Throw Mine: Aside from reworking its many other problems it removes an additional boon.
-“Trait” Devastating Explosions: Detonating turrets removes a boon from foes.
-“Trait” Kit Sapping: Each time you equip a kit you remove a boon from your target. 30 second cool down.

Thief:
Flanking Strike: yay!
Infiltrator’s Signet: Do we really need another shadow step? Remove 1 boon.
Bountiful Theft: Pretty sure this strips 2 boons.

Guardian: Having not played the guardian nearly at all i cannot make suggestions on this class. Anyone else wanna chime in?

All of these should remove the boon first, then deal the effect (IE Stability is removed first on kick, then the kick knocks back. This is to allow them to be useful as both boon removal and cc. They are not, however, unblockable.)
Thoughts?

Interesting topic you bring up:
-First I would take Ele and Ranger out of the list. Because the dmg from a ranger and his pet is enough on a single player. Removing boons would cause to kill a bunker-guard in a 1v1 easily. And the ele: Well don’t think we need to discuss this thing. He allrdy has enough dmg + survivability.
-What would be good if the warrior had acces to boon removal.

As boons are really important and a big issue for every class (except the warrior mabye ) I would be really careful to give such strong abilites to all classes. Because every class will drop faster in a 1v1. So there would be really fast fights though.

I like where your head is at

These abilities emphasize timing of removing boons. Without proper use they will not be very effective, that is the point. Also to run every boon removing thing you can would vastly limit your ability in other areas. Be sure to see that the ranger and ele tended to get less prominent boon removal than the other suggestions due to the placement of the boon removal and their current states.

As a rebuttal

Elementalist: Stop saying they are too strong. They have 1 d/d bunker build that is too strong, many other things about them are weak. Do not confuse the 2. Elementalists damage and survivability has nothing to do with their ability to remove boons, an ability that EVERY class should have. If you notice i placed NO boon removal and their already popular cantrips and instead on a damage utility that would spark more use from it and on a signet that is never used because Eles have far too much burning already to make use of it.

Rangers: Rangers need this just as any other class does. It isnt about damage (although with regen and protection removed they would certainly deal more) it is about the ability to counter a situation. Currently most classes have no counter to boons beyond getting sigils of nullification which is just absurd. Notice again that the utilities that would remove boons for rangers are featured on 2 pets that are simply aesthetic copies of other pets and are being given their own feature, making it a choice of pet, and on two abilities that are seldom used by rangers in current builds but increase their damage in condition or power builds, allowing more build flexibility without having these 2 under powered utilities become overpowered

You will also notice that with the exception of removing the boon first, granting the effect second (like kick removing stability first so the kick actually goes through) none of these are suggested to be unblockable, so aegis and blocking can still defend your boons (For engis / guardians / warriors / rangers / mesmers / eles to preserve boons etc)

Also your statement about the warrior.

Boons are very important for the warrior. While i wish they had more/better regeneration and while i wish they actually had access to protection… why they don’t ill never know as high health and armor is not a balanced reasoning due to how toughness scales and protection works mechanically… ANYWAY. They boons that are important to them are just different IE usually fury and swiftness with some might on the side over things like protection and regeneration. Removing these boons is just as devastating to a warrior as anyone else.

When i see a warrior on my necro (i run axe/focus power build) i wait for signet of rage/fgj to pop, then i spinal shivers his kitten to knock off all that might and fury. It works so well most of them try to run from me if they notice it.

The Warrior and Engineer need more Boon Removal, but I think that would be enough. Flash Grenades, Toss Elixir C, and the Mace & Greatsword Burst skills would be prime candidates in my opinion.

why would that be enough? what makes you say no one else needs it?

This is like saying certain classes dont need stunbreakers, yes boons are that important

Also i’d be against giving boon removal to weapons over utilities. It limits the build variety/flexibility greatly.

The reason I think it’s enough, is because if there is too much boon removal in the game then boons become much less meaningful. Changing their value too much could have unforeseen consequences.

There is already boon removal in weapons, some of which is spammable. I don’t see any reason they should be utility skill only if the precedent is already set.

i see.

I’d rather remove nullifying sigils and put these utilities in

I know one thing I would take more condition healing options over boon removal on my engineer any day of the week. We basically have 1 option for reliable condition healing (minus the elixir that cures them), and it requires you to spend 20 points into alchemy, actually choose at least 2 or more elixirs with decent cool downs , AND half you them you have to manually aim and throw to use. This eliminates so many builds its really not even funny

Well as engineer you have certain things to remove conditions easily. Utilities/F-Skillz: Cleansing Burst, Toss Elixir R, Elixir C. On Traits you have Transmute, Automated Response. As a engineer you have at least the cleansing burst. If have problems with conditions then take in elixir C as additional support. With traits…well there’s more the problem.

Back to the topic: I wouldn’t implement such things. Boon removal is the necro’s strenght and should stay on this class primary.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Well as engineer you have certain things to remove conditions easily. Utilities/F-Skillz: Cleansing Burst, Toss Elixir R, Elixir C. On Traits you have Transmute, Automated Response. As a engineer you have at least the cleansing burst. If have problems with conditions then take in elixir C as additional support. With traits…well there’s more the problem.

Back to the topic: I wouldn’t implement such things. Boon removal is the necro’s strenght and should stay on this class primary.

You just completely proved my point.

Not all classes should have access to supereasy boon removal..
Not all classes should have access to Protection Cough Cough High base
Hp/toughness/Armor Warriors

Please regale me with tales of how balanced a guardian would be with 1.5x his hp and access to haste (Warrior+Protection).

There is no need to buff the two strongest classes Guardian Elementalist..

Darnis.4056:

Not all classes should have access to supereasy boon removal..
Not all classes should have access to Protection Cough Cough High base
Hp/toughness/Armor Warriors

Please regale me with tales of how balanced a guardian would be with 1.5x his hp and access to haste (Warrior+Protection).

There is no need to buff the two strongest classes Guardian Elementalist..

The guardian has a lot of ability to apply protection. warrior with protection would be nowhere near the same thing. Warrior has extremely limited access to regeneration, their heals are not very good, and they would at best have minimal access to protection… and if they use protection and frenzy then they still take a net drop in defense from status quo. In addition to that the warrior has no projectile reflection, no invulnerability heal, no teleports, no constant retaliation, no aegis(though they do have blocks on some weapons)… you really cannot drop that comparison as it is not that simple nor is it correct.

Giving the warrior protection for 3 seconds on banner of defense summon / use of #2 skill on banner OR a defensive trait that replaced thick skin: (2 seconds of protection on block) would make them actually viable in spvp to survive and not be op. Toughness scales terribly, protection is the name of the game when it comes to damage mitigation. If you notice i also want to nerf protection.

You must have no idea how bad warriors have it in pvp to dispute that. It is all about how its given, not that its given.

elementalist has 1 strong d/d bunker build and a good downed state… they are far from being a strong “class” otherwise. i didnt say anything about guardians.

In terms of boon removal… no it shouldnt be “easy access” its a choice. If you lookat the things ive played it on they r either underused or underpowered skills that need a little raising up and do not fall in with the normal paradigms of a class. The idea was more build versatility and that every class could perform well against bunkering classes / high boon classes with smart play instead of just sitting there and watching that guy with 15 stacks of might plow you.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Well as engineer you have certain things to remove conditions easily. Utilities/F-Skillz: Cleansing Burst, Toss Elixir R, Elixir C. On Traits you have Transmute, Automated Response. As a engineer you have at least the cleansing burst. If have problems with conditions then take in elixir C as additional support. With traits…well there’s more the problem.

Back to the topic: I wouldn’t implement such things. Boon removal is the necro’s strenght and should stay on this class primary.

And even with all this implementation the necro would still be far better at it than anything suggested here.

I don’t think other classes need to be barred from it, they need at least an option to have some method of combating boon stacking

I wanted to bring this post back up because with the introduction of 1v1s I’m seeing a lot more posts complaining about bunkers.

I really do think nerfing protection and including boon removal to all classes will address this issue (as well as toning down some condition removal capabilities of guardian/ele)

Classes being balanced in 1on1 isnt really the ideal. After all, a point roamer might not be a very good 1on1 fighter, but very useful in teamfights. Because classes specialize into different roles.
A 5 man team made up of strong 1on1 specs might lose to a 5 man team with more specialized roles, even if any particular match up the first team would win1v1.

It would be like asking league of legends to have every hero balanced 1on1. Its just silly , not all classes do the same things equally well, and only way to really get balance is to mirror.

It’s a tricky situation, as many things in this game are. For classes that can give themselves a handful of boons for a long duration, the idea of more boon removal seems cheesy. They are likely using an ability (or comboing with a trait) that has a long CD, so to lose those boons so quickly seems cheap. On the other hand, there are classes and specs that just spam short duration boons nearly as quickly (and in some cases, even more quickly) then they fall off, resulting in a class that constantly has 3-5 boons up, and stripping them removes their access to the buff for all of 5 seconds.

Boons are ridiculously strong in this game – more so than in any other MMO I’ve ever played. Easy access to boon stripping would completely nullify some stronger specs which rely on these builds to be very powerful (perhaps OP, but that isn’t my call to make). While I agree the game needs better access to boon stripping (especially on utilities), it’s not going to be easy to balance.

giving boon removal to classes with poor pvp representation and performance might be a good idea

i think this falls under “be careful what you wish for”.

too much boon stripping is worse than not enough. whatever changes they make should be small.

Im not saying classes should be balanced on 1v1 or have an over abundance of stripping but think of this.

If every class brings all these options ive suggested think about what theyd be losing in terms of utilities. A LOT for many builds.

EVERY class should have the availability to perform counter play to something that EVERY class has availability to (boons). This would give them a CHOICE, and since utilities are locked for tournies that choice is important to make and have for a team. Every class has condition removal because every class can apply conditions, though some are better or worse at it. This should be mirrored in boons, which are arguably more effective and important.

Each thing ive added boon stripping to is currently underutilized and would not effectively make any strong build right now stronger. I am not trying to make balance suggestions based on 1v1, i am trying to increase team comp and build diversity by allowing every class to deal with something ina different way (something ANet said about how they would balance class mechanics without the trinity). Mesmers and Necros will still have the best boon stripping, easily, this doesnt mean none of these other classes should at least get the option to choose to bring a little of their own.

This also allows every class to be able to break down a bunker if properly set up and properly played. See that i havent given much stripping to anyone, just enough to knock off boons with timing and intelligent gameplay to make more interesting counter-builds. I don’t think anything i’ve suggested provides “easy boon stripping”. If anything it gives you a LIGHT boon stripping option.

Utilities with boon stripping are an amazing idea, imo – they’re generally on longer CD’s, give you the option regardless of weaponset, and are sorely needed. A little bit more boonstripping on weaponsets is probably also called for.

evilapprentice.6379:

Utilities with boon stripping are an amazing idea, imo – they’re generally on longer CD’s, give you the option regardless of weaponset, and are sorely needed. A little bit more boonstripping on weaponsets is probably also called for.

I dont want to go too out of hand or create preferred weapons for bunker busting. I think utilities are the way to go for the reasons you’ve mentioned. I agree that all utilities with the boon-stripping functionality might need a 5-10 seconds cool down increase.

The Memser GS skill #3 removes a boon too.
They can also steal boons and transfer conditions with certain abilities.

Preyar.6783:

The Memser GS skill #3 removes a boon too.
They can also steal boons and transfer conditions with certain abilities.

Which is why mesmers, like necros, arent listed in my post. Their boon removal is fine and needs no tweaks. My suggestions are only for those classes who have no boon removal or extremely minimal removal (Thief / Engi)

Mesmers: Sword MH auto attack (3rd hit removes a boon), GS 3, Arcane Thievery (3 boons), Null field, Arcane Disenchanter…

Necro: Well of Corruptions, Spinal Shivers, Spinal Shivers trait(25%hp), 10% on hit to remove boon with minions (trait), Corrupt boon…

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Preyar.6783:

The Memser GS skill #3 removes a boon too.
They can also steal boons and transfer conditions with certain abilities.

Which is why mesmers, like necros, arent listed in my post. Their boon removal is fine and needs no tweaks. My suggestions are only for those classes who have no boon removal or extremely minimal removal (Thief / Engi)

Mesmers: Sword MH auto attack (3rd hit removes a boon), GS 3, Arcane Thievery (3 boons), Null field, Arcane Disenchanter…

Necro: Well of Corruptions, Spinal Shivers, Spinal Shivers trait(25%hp), 10% on hit to remove boon with minions (trait), Corrupt boon…

Oh, didn’t see that.
(Btw, how could I forget Null Field..xD)

I think this idea runs counter to the “theme” of a few of the classes. Take the warrior for example. The idea of the warrior is that he is relatively weak in the boon/condition aspect, but makes up for it with brute force and power and strength and what have you. The devs said as much in their little spiels on each class in the December patch notes. Necromancers are on the other end of the scale – little direct strength to speak of, but amazing at condition and boon manipulation.

If boon removing skills are given to some other classes, I’d like to see them accessible via traits only rather than being built into weapon or utility skills.

Raijinn.9065:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Well as engineer you have certain things to remove conditions easily. Utilities/F-Skillz: Cleansing Burst, Toss Elixir R, Elixir C. On Traits you have Transmute, Automated Response. As a engineer you have at least the cleansing burst. If have problems with conditions then take in elixir C as additional support. With traits…well there’s more the problem.

Back to the topic: I wouldn’t implement such things. Boon removal is the necro’s strenght and should stay on this class primary.

You just completely proved my point.

Super elixir(elixir gun skill), antidote (med kit skill), fumigate (elixir gun skill), or you can just do what I do and run Runes of Melandru…

@OP: being a long time ranger player I can say that rangers do NOT need a boon removal, they already tear through bunkers, or at least I did, giving them boon stripping would be over kill. Personally, I don’t think warriors should have boon removal, they’re more of a raw damage thing, boons and conditions are supposed to sorta be their kryptonite… And then as said earlier eles are good on their stuff, but maybe tie boon removal to like the lightning hammer or another conjured weapon to make them a bit more useful?

lettucemode.3789:

I think this idea runs counter to the “theme” of a few of the classes. Take the warrior for example. The idea of the warrior is that he is relatively weak in the boon/condition aspect, but makes up for it with brute force and power and strength and what have you. The devs said as much in their little spiels on each class in the December patch notes. Necromancers are on the other end of the scale – little direct strength to speak of, but amazing at condition and boon manipulation.

If boon removing skills are given to some other classes, I’d like to see them accessible via traits only rather than being built into weapon or utility skills.

But the warrior is not relatively weak in this aspect in totality. He can almost permanently keep might fury and swiftness applied a decent application of vigor to boot. He is weak in defensive boons (Aegis, regen, protection) as his sturdy body is supposed to keep him alive and not magic. There is nothing saying getting kicked in the gut really hard cant strip off a boon. The physicality of it makes sense to me at least, but i understand where you’re coming from. However as a counterpoint while the warrior may be weak in the boon/condition department overall he still has them, as well as condition removal, why shouldnt boon removal be treated the same… Weak, niche perhaps, but available.

Durzlla.6295:

Raijinn.9065:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Well as engineer you have certain things to remove conditions easily. Utilities/F-Skillz: Cleansing Burst, Toss Elixir R, Elixir C. On Traits you have Transmute, Automated Response. As a engineer you have at least the cleansing burst. If have problems with conditions then take in elixir C as additional support. With traits…well there’s more the problem.

Back to the topic: I wouldn’t implement such things. Boon removal is the necro’s strenght and should stay on this class primary.

You just completely proved my point.

Super elixir(elixir gun skill), antidote (med kit skill), fumigate (elixir gun skill), or you can just do what I do and run Runes of Melandru…

@OP: being a long time ranger player I can say that rangers do NOT need a boon removal, they already tear through bunkers, or at least I did, giving them boon stripping would be over kill. Personally, I don’t think warriors should have boon removal, they’re more of a raw damage thing, boons and conditions are supposed to sorta be their kryptonite… And then as said earlier eles are good on their stuff, but maybe tie boon removal to like the lightning hammer or another conjured weapon to make them a bit more useful?

I like the idea of tying boon removal to a conjuration, although i think signet of fire is a good one too seeing as how its pretty much useless due to the massive amount of burning elementalists already have.

I think we have all seen that having boons and conditions be the warrior’s kryptonite when boons and conditions are a massive part of the game for every class is simply not good design. It makes warriors reliant on very stringent builds and borderline useless in higher skill tpvp matches.

I disagree, i think boons themselves should be severely nerfed in both duration and number of boons available to certain classes.The game UI is too unintuitive to add more situational skills, you cant freely move parts of ui to make it easier to track enemy boons and debuffs and your debuffs, like for example moving enemy target close to where your debuffs are shown, so that you dont have to look to 2 different parts of your ui to keep an eye on your debuffs-(ower right corner), and enemy buffs
( upper middle section) of your UI.When i play i want to concentrate on what is happening around me, not my UI.

I’ve never had trouble tracking enemy boons -.-

also the solution to your problem is having boons have better visual queues, like protection currently does.

Here is my fix for that.

Might: Hands have a yellow glow

Fury: Hands have a red glow

Regen: Green crosses / lines fly upwards off the character

Aegis: Move blue shield off the arm and in front of the character

Protection: Thicken the lines

Vigor: gold swirling around the feet

something of that nature

Rump Buffalo.2594:

I’ve never had trouble tracking enemy boons -.-

also the solution to your problem is having boons have better visual queues, like protection currently does.

Here is my fix for that.

Might: Hands have a yellow glow

Fury: Hands have a red glow

Regen: Green crosses / lines fly upwards off the character

Aegis: Move blue shield off the arm and in front of the character

Protection: Thicken the lines

Vigor: gold swirling around the feet

something of that nature

Problem with that is some classes can have most if not all boons on at the same time, having all those visual queues would make them light up like a christmas tree, especially considering that they went too far with use of particle effects in this game, and then what you need to do is reduce number of boons available to each class so that you can discern what boons he has on ( 1 or 2 per class max would be optimal imo), which is what i originally propose.
I also think that toughness and armor, not protection and regen, should play greater role when creating defensive and balanced builds, that is why i said duration of boons should be reduced.

The important boons are retailiantion, stability and to a lesser extent protection.
Everything else is shrug.

true, point still being though that more boon removal, I believe, would help a lot on the road to balance and class viability / equality (in terms of every class being able to handle something in their own way)

I think it is a bad idea, making everyone equal in certain aspects, ruining diversity and making it a lot easier to destroy those that rely on boons to make it in the first place. It changes too much and will unhinge balance, I suspect. Hard to predict, but it would make it hard on the “weaker” classes, for whom the boons are the way out of being mere pushovers.

Balance needs to come from other places, not giving everyone boon removal.

“Making everyone equal” is not what is happening. Are you guys even reading the suggested changes?

The boon stripping given to other classes is minimal at best. Mesmers and Necros will still be the best, by FAR, at doing this. To take boon stripping would now require a choice and is only being implemented on underused abilities that no one runs in high end builds.

This would do nothing but INCREASE build diversity, and the ability to strip 1-2 boons every 20-30 seconds would not unhinge balance or make it easy to destroy bunkers, it just makes them not stupidly survivable and makes them thing about when to apply boons (COUNTERPLAY) as well as making YOU think about when to strip them.

I agree other things also need balancing, but there is no reason every class shouldnt at least have access to 1-2 boon stripping choices. It is just like conditions. Imagine if a class had 0 condition removal. Conditions are a part of the game and are arguably less important than boons are. Everyone has them, everyone should be able to remove them to some degree. Some are better and some are worse, JUST like condition removal

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Thief:
Flanking Strike: yay!

This is all I need ma brother <3

edit: now i think about it gw1 only mesmers and necros had lots of enchant removal skills.

Boon removal is a necros thing so I would against them giving it to all classes. Otherwise why bring a necro. Instead just buff the necros boon removal or better yet just nerf those builds which stack boons.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Interesting topic you bring up:
-First I would take Ele and Ranger out of the list. Because the dmg from a ranger and his pet is enough on a single player. Removing boons would cause to kill a bunker-guard in a 1v1 easily. And the ele: Well don’t think we need to discuss this thing. He allrdy has enough dmg + survivability.
-What would be good if the warrior had acces to boon removal.

As boons are really important and a big issue for every class (except the warrior mabye ) I would be really careful to give such strong abilites to all classes. Because every class will drop faster in a 1v1. So there would be really fast fights though.

You can easily kill two birds with one stone (for elementalists). Place boon stripping on the focus, staff, or in trait lines not currently used. This diversifies builds without buffing the already strong ones.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Boon removal is a necros thing so I would against them giving it to all classes. Otherwise why bring a necro. Instead just buff the necros boon removal or better yet just nerf those builds which stack boons.

It’s also a Mesmer thing, just not as common to find a Mesmer that manipulates boons. That being said, I agree, boon removal/manipulation shouldn’t be something everyone can do, otherwise builds that utilize boons to be successful would just become worthless.

Boon removal is a thing everyone can do. 2 professions do it well, one does dabbles it.
They should drop nullifications ICD to 7/8s and create a weapon swap version with a 9s ICD. 3 boons removed in the course of 21s is hardly demonic and get’s counterplayed by simply covering your important boons. Which some can do very well.

Edit: failed at basic multiplication

Lordrosicky.5813:

Boon removal is a necros thing so I would against them giving it to all classes. Otherwise why bring a necro. Instead just buff the necros boon removal or better yet just nerf those builds which stack boons.

I’ve already answered this. Necros would still have the most efficient and effective boon removals, not to mention just plainly having the most of it and an AOE of it. That doesn’t mean other classes shouldnt have it or don’t need it. You cannot call the game balanced by expecting a team to just always have a necro around.

Boons are too powerful to not let people handle them in some way

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Boon removal is a necros thing so I would against them giving it to all classes. Otherwise why bring a necro. Instead just buff the necros boon removal or better yet just nerf those builds which stack boons.

I’ve already answered this. Necros would still have the most efficient and effective boon removals, not to mention just plainly having the most of it and an AOE of it. That doesn’t mean other classes shouldnt have it or don’t need it. You cannot call the game balanced by expecting a team to just always have a necro around.

Boons are too powerful to not let people handle them in some way

Necros hardly have a ton of boon removal as it stands.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Boon removal is a necros thing so I would against them giving it to all classes. Otherwise why bring a necro. Instead just buff the necros boon removal or better yet just nerf those builds which stack boons.

I’ve already answered this. Necros would still have the most efficient and effective boon removals, not to mention just plainly having the most of it and an AOE of it. That doesn’t mean other classes shouldnt have it or don’t need it. You cannot call the game balanced by expecting a team to just always have a necro around.

Boons are too powerful to not let people handle them in some way

Necros hardly have a ton of boon removal as it stands.

Spinal Shivers removes 3 boons, Spinal shivers trait at 25%hp removes 3 boons, Corrupt Boon turns ALL boons into conditions, Well of Corruptions converts boons into conditions… I mean that’s kinda a lot right there. And one of them is an aoe. So at MINIMUM with 1 target having only 1 boon for corrupt boon and the well you are still removing 8 minimum and have a massively huge potential to remove a lot more. Oh also minions remove 1 boon each (10% chance on hit) through a trait. Minions suck tho so… yeah

Compare that to the next highest person, Mesmer, and they get 1 removed (up to 3 in an aoe) on their sword auto chain finisher, 1 on GS 3 in an aoe skill shot, 3 on arcane thievery, and Null field. Oh and boon removal on shatter which is crazy good IMO. So Mesmers are pretty similar but not quite as much.

Now compare that to everyone else. Warrior 0, ele 0, thief (flanking strike, bountiful theft), engi 1 on mine throw, ranger 0, guardian 1 i think in a trait but i cant remember.

A lot of the problems could be solved if they would reduce the max duration of all boons.

Boons should be short term buffs not permanent active. They are very powerful and should be treated that way.

Something like max 15 seconds and not 1 minute.

All weapon and utility skills grant a maximum boon duration of 10 seconds for every class.

The same goes for Conditions.

In my oppinion this would tone down bunker and burst builds.

Best regards!

#1: Let us see the % damage reduction our defense/toughness is giving to us in the Hero tab. I need to know how much that extra 273 toughness is giving me (made up number) compared to the 300 power im getting in trade (another made up number). These types of tools are useful and need to be implemented.

It’s giving your divisor in the damage formula an extra 273. It’s negating 300 power, what 91%? However how can you put that as a percent when it’s effect depends on their power. If their power is 500, it only reduces the effect of their Power 54%.
If you look at the formula since toughness is just added to armor to be used as a divisor and Power is a divisor. If I understand math correctly (which I probably don’t) Toughness directly cancels out power. So 916 power is negated completely by 916 toughness. Your additional toughness doesn’t reduce any additional damage than the base unless it’s higher than their power. So how much you reduce damage is character specific is it not?

If someone has 1500 power vs your 1200 toughness it negates 1200 power, so they do more dmg than normal, but if they have 600 power, you’ve halved the effect of power. So they should be doing about half their normal damage no?. If it’s character specific than it’s better to put your armor rating than a fluctuating % which would require you to check the hero tab every time you target someone :P.

#3: Improve scaling of toughness, reduce protection to 25% (down from 33%).
REASON: 33% is too much for a single buff, especially one that everyone doesn’t have access to (cough cough warrior, the only class who cant use protection). So much suvivability should not rely on when one boon is simply up or not. 25% is noticeable, does the job, and is far more fair, allowing for toughness to feel truly protective.

Protection should be powerful. Fury should be powerful. Swiftness should be powerful etc. These are offensive and defensive aspects that can be removed.
They are different from Stealth, Aura’s, invulnerability states, evades, Banners, trait effects, toughness, and armor which cannot be removed.
Removing them is just too weak.
Lulz gw1 had really powerful enchantments, you removed/interrupted them. With typically specific professions that excelled in that. Dervishes, Shatter assassin’s, Mesmers and Necro’s. Thieves, Mesmers and Necro’s retain some of that (poor dervish) no reason to make a Boon weaker. I like that it’s strong. Breaking it down is just a pain when
the weapon sigil that is about that, is mediocre and you get more just popping a flame sigil and of the three, Necro’s and thieves don’t stick out that well (imo) at BR vs Mesmers.

ensoriki.5789:

#1: Let us see the % damage reduction our defense/toughness is giving to us in the Hero tab. I need to know how much that extra 273 toughness is giving me (made up number) compared to the 300 power im getting in trade (another made up number). These types of tools are useful and need to be implemented.

It’s giving your divisor in the damage formula an extra 273. It’s negating 300 power, what 91%? However how can you put that as a percent when it’s effect depends on their power. If their power is 500, it only reduces the effect of their Power 54%.
If you look at the formula since toughness is just added to armor to be used as a divisor and Power is a divisor. If I understand math correctly (which I probably don’t) Toughness directly cancels out power. So 916 power is negated completely by 916 toughness. Your additional toughness doesn’t reduce any additional damage than the base unless it’s higher than their power. So how much you reduce damage is character specific is it not?

If someone has 1500 power vs your 1200 toughness it negates 1200 power, so they do more dmg than normal, but if they have 600 power, you’ve halved the effect of power. So they should be doing about half their normal damage no?. If it’s character specific than it’s better to put your armor rating than a fluctuating % which would require you to check the hero tab every time you target someone :P.

#3: Improve scaling of toughness, reduce protection to 25% (down from 33%).
REASON: 33% is too much for a single buff, especially one that everyone doesn’t have access to (cough cough warrior, the only class who cant use protection). So much suvivability should not rely on when one boon is simply up or not. 25% is noticeable, does the job, and is far more fair, allowing for toughness to feel truly protective.

Protection should be powerful. Fury should be powerful. Swiftness should be powerful etc. These are offensive and defensive aspects that can be removed.
They are different from Stealth, Aura’s, invulnerability states, evades, Banners, trait effects, toughness, and armor which cannot be removed.
Removing them is just too weak.
Lulz gw1 had really powerful enchantments, you removed/interrupted them. With typically specific professions that excelled in that. Dervishes, Shatter assassin’s, Mesmers and Necro’s. Thieves, Mesmers and Necro’s retain some of that (poor dervish) no reason to make a Boon weaker. I like that it’s strong. Breaking it down is just a pain when
the weapon sigil that is about that, is mediocre and you get more just popping a flame sigil and of the three, Necro’s and thieves don’t stick out that well (imo) at BR vs Mesmers.

I don’t think it works that way. Also toughness scales poorly and has a form of DR that power doesnt so having it scale like that would only keep 1:1 for a small amount of time. Also placing the variable of how toughness reduces armor to be based off of the power of the thing hitting you innately gives a large advantage to power and is just really bad design. SO I HOPE IT ISNT DONE LIKE THAT.

I agree boons SHOULD be powerful…is 25% damage reduction NOT powerful? I’d gladly give up that 8% to have toughness be worth a kitten thing

Lastly a class’ ability to remove boons shouldnt be based on a weapon sigil that they dont innately have. All that does is move the potential boon removal of everyone up by 1. It does nothing to balance the competitiveness of certain professions because it gives everyone the same boost, leaving those who are bad at it to still be just as bad. Also the sigil sucks. I really wish theyd convert all the 30% on crit sigils to 15-20% on hit ones and the 60% on crit to 30-35% on hit. So many of the good sigils require you to use a crit amulet or at least precision trait lines and that isn’t ok.

Form of Diminishing returns? The only way it diminishes if I understand is vs damage modifiers. That push the scale in Power’s favor. Which is what I understand they want, offense > defense by design.
But that’s also a significant reason to make Protection as powerful as it is
1) Offense > Defense, so allowing significant defensive power in a removable boon works for that goal
2) Protection for example completely nullifies the bonus of Executioner + the 25s grandmaster in CS. with an extra 3% mitigation on normal damage.
even if you reduce protection you make defense all around stronger, for doing nothing since toughness is not removable.

All professions have access to a weapon sigil if they want to remove boons. That is reality. This privelage is innate to every profession in the game, no one is exempt from being able to use nullification. As such all professions can remove boons. The only time they is somewhat false, is in Pve/Wvw where you have to purchase it. In Spvp? Nullification is completely free, and is as much an innate choice as slotting a utility skill.
The sigil is however mediocre.
Making you decide “I want to be better at removing boons”, vs “I want to do more aoe dmg and take Flame sigil” or “I want to remove more conditions and take purity” isn’t a crime, it’s part of the idea they presumably want. You have choices, you make em for what suits you. Nullification is just a pretty lame choice atm, when you can take flame sigil or sigil of battle/bloodlust/hydromancy/whatever and generally get far more for your buck.

Let us be real here.
You innately have the ability to take nullification in the same way you innately have the ability to take Dueling Evasion as a Mesmer. It’s optional, but it’s something you can always do if you so please. Just as you can take Trickster instead of Bountiful theft as a thief, or Spectral wall instead of Corrupt Boon as a Necromancer.
Null should be a better option, there should be a weapon swap equivalent, and sure some additional boon removal or boon offense/defenses can be added to utilities/traits.
It’s not embedded in to you like Dodge rolling is, but those are the breaks.
As strong as boons are, we don’t need every profession being able to shutdown a guardian or elementalists defensive significance at their discretion.

But all this is basically about the s/d and d/d ele. Yeh its way too strong. No need for sweeping changes though. Just nerf how much boon up time this build has and its all fine. Together with other nerfs perhaps.

I mean they arent going to do anything you are saying. They wont even move at more than a snails pace to bring a universally recognised OP build into line (s/d and d/d ele). In fact they still havent done this even after 4 months of people saying its op.

This isnt about the ele, its about boons in general and the lack of ability to counter a HUGE part of the game’s mechanics for many people.

My point about nullifcation is that yes they are an option but they are the same option for everyone, so the status remains quo, as opposed to the other things you spoke of that are profession specific and available to you without also requiring criticals to work (presumably) or giving up a sigil. You could argue that you are giving a trait/utility/weapon slot up to get that boon removal, yes, but that trait slot is profession specific and defining and tailor to YOU as a profession, not just some random chance to strip a boon sometimes when you maybe crit.

The other problem is the nullification runes arent timed or on demand. I can CHOOSE when i want boons removed with spinal shivers and bountiful theft. I can play with arcane thievery and flanking strike strategically. Nullification does not give me that option, I am at the mercy of RNG to determine if I remove a boon or not. That isn’t counter play, that’s prayer and hope that it works out for you in the way you want.