Guild Wars 2

First of, I am quite outspoken about the change to the change on the Scepter #1 chain on Necro, this is just too rewarding for so little…
Unbalanced? Maybe – hear me out;

It is no secret that I have not been participating in PvP as of much lately, not logging in for times after times and trying to care as little as I could (for longer than HoT came out). However, I have been monitoring the game and trying to understand my discontent.
One of the issues that I have seen (of many) in PvP is excessive boon spam. It became so bad that a trait like the old Blighter’s boon had to be changed since teammates were capable of keeping Necromancers neigh permanently alive with the old itteration (in a perfect scenario).

However, rather than touching the core of the issue [Boon Spam], I see a noticable and terrible trend, especially regarding Necromancers. It was no secret that the reworked Signet Trait would allow Necromancers to become kings of boon hate, overpowering the previous need of Corrupt Boon by a large margin. But to me, this seems to be a bad reaction as to how things really are.
Previously, Corrupt Boon was (barely) enough – it was a utility that rewarded patience and only with the right timing would you pull off some nasty plays, turning the strength of an enemy into a weakness that really hurted them (mostly stability>fear).
In this meta, current one, there would be almost no reason to take this over the Signets whatsoever. Corrupt Boon become outdated, a long cooldown while other utilities have proven to get more value, while doing the same.

Fast forward to the new changes, and I see something that is honestly shocking. Corrupt on an Autoattack? A Ranged autoattack with no travel-time? There is literally no way that I could’ve ever imagined this to be in the game say around the Terror-Mancer age before the trait rework. This would’ve been so blatantly powerful, that the Necromancer should have a lot of their power removed in their skills/utilities to make it work.
But that was the past… In this meta? Actually, would you feel it? Boons are literally plentiful, and if it is not you who has a high uptime, then there is someone sharing them. It might just be “balanced”, but all I see is something that is majorly overtuned [Boons], and a reaction like such to “get it in line” [Corrupt on Autoattack]

TLDR : Boon corrupt on auto a reaction to boon spam, trivializing a lot of gameplay
Your opinion? Am I a sentimental sod? Am I wrong, right, or close? Discuss

seems like they want to specialise necros into Bunker killers

i would say.

by the six, its about time!

You should also consider how much you would actually use the auto attack chain over your other skills and how long you would be willing to camp scepter? this might sound great on paper but reality will put it to the test as no sane team would leave a necromancer alive and free casting for long. Especially that thieves are coming back to the meta to counter the necro and also warriors. Get ready to be stunlocked again.

burst corruption is still better imo but this is not a bad change.
compensate for the scepter’s low and slow condition output with corruption.

what I am interested in is if the scepter trait would affect the duration of corrupted boons. That there would be too much….

Arenanet’s approach to balance has always been playing firefighter. Which of course hasn’t work in A SINGLE GAME EVER.

You need an actual design vision for serious balancing and Anet has shown time and time again that they have NO CLUE HOW THEIR ACTUAL CLASSES WORK.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

You should also consider how much you would actually use the auto attack chain over your other skills and how long you would be willing to camp scepter? this might sound great on paper but reality will put it to the test as no sane team would leave a necromancer alive and free casting for long. Especially that thieves are coming back to the meta to counter the necro and also warriors. Get ready to be stunlocked again.

burst corruption is still better imo but this is not a bad change.
compensate for the scepter’s low and slow condition output with corruption.

what I am interested in is if the scepter trait would affect the duration of corrupted boons. That there would be too much….

I’ll be honest, the post is less against the actual change to Necro, than it is Anet having this reaction to a problem they created [Boon Spam]. I made a mistake talking about the Scepter change for too much because it derrives from the main point.

So sorry for the misconception, I actually have no interest in discussing whether it is overpowered and broken or not – the true purpose is discussing the aim and direction of Anet when it comes to Boons and Corruptions as a whole

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

10 seconds with traits even.

In my opinion boons have got completely out of control with classes able to easily stack/spam strong boons like protections, regen, aegis, stability, resistance and now quickness for a relatively low cost.

Remember when you used to blast fire fields for might? Now you just have traits giving you might for using skills. It’s an arms race and we just seem to be getting bigger and bigger bombs

Corrupt boon needs either a huge obvious tell like moa signet or long cast time like dragon’s tooth. Also I don’t know the reasoning behind 10/15 sec for corrupt boon. I’d thought 20/25 sec without trait would be reasonable but 15 sec cd without trait is just pure overpowered.

apharma.3741:

In my opinion boons have got completely out of control with classes able to easily stack/spam strong boons like protections, regen, aegis, stability, resistance and now quickness for a relatively low cost.

Remember when you used to blast fire fields for might? Now you just have traits giving you might for using skills. It’s an arms race and we just seem to be getting bigger and bigger bombs

Of course boons are completely out of hand (so are conditions though). But making boon removal completely out of control too is the worst thing to try to fix that.

The real choice would have been to simply fix the boon spam. But that would take vision and time to actually change the classes that boonspam. And arenanet doesn’t care enough to do that so they go the easy road of just handing out boon rip like it’s sunday.

TheFamster.7806:

Corrupt boon needs either a huge obvious tell like moa signet or long cast time like dragon’s tooth. Also I don’t know the reasoning behind 10/15 sec for corrupt boon. I’d thought 20/25 sec without trait would be reasonable but 15 sec cd without trait is just pure overpowered.

its fine really considering how fast some professions puke out boons like there’s no tomorrow.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

apharma.3741:

In my opinion boons have got completely out of control with classes able to easily stack/spam strong boons like protections, regen, aegis, stability, resistance and now quickness for a relatively low cost.

Remember when you used to blast fire fields for might? Now you just have traits giving you might for using skills. It’s an arms race and we just seem to be getting bigger and bigger bombs

Of course boons are completely out of hand (so are conditions though). But making boon removal completely out of control too is the worst thing to try to fix that.

The real choice would have been to simply fix the boon spam. But that would take vision and time to actually change the classes that boonspam. And arenanet doesn’t care enough to do that so they go the easy road of just handing out boon rip like it’s sunday.

Yeah I agree, especially with conditions too. There’s also a lot of “hidden” spam that people just aren’t aware of where it’s hidden in minors and auto procs. Weakness, cripple, chill and poison while not that damaging are absolutely crippling (pun not intended) and in some cases very easily applied with very little thought.

Toning down conditions and boons would go a long way to making the game a little more enjoyable where keeping a boon up 100% should cost several traits with stat and rune investments.

Course, splitting PvE and PvP would be a great start too…

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

The animation is already pretty obvious tho

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Krysard.1364:

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

The animation is already pretty obvious tho

This.
Necro rears back and lunges forward on the 3rd strike.

blakdoxa.7520:

Krysard.1364:

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

The animation is already pretty obvious tho

This.
Necro rears back and lunges forward on the 3rd strike.

You’re talking about scepter autoattack. We’re talking about the Corrupt Boon skill… which has a really bad tell and too short casttime.

good joke anet

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

blakdoxa.7520:

Krysard.1364:

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

The animation is already pretty obvious tho

This.
Necro rears back and lunges forward on the 3rd strike.

You’re talking about scepter autoattack. We’re talking about the Corrupt Boon skill… which has a really bad tell and too short casttime.

Similar to dagger#3 but with a green thingy in your hand

Krysard.1364:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

blakdoxa.7520:

Krysard.1364:

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

The animation is already pretty obvious tho

This.
Necro rears back and lunges forward on the 3rd strike.

You’re talking about scepter autoattack. We’re talking about the Corrupt Boon skill… which has a really bad tell and too short casttime.

Similar to dagger#3 but with a green thingy in your hand

I.e. a really bad tell and too short casttime.

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

They should rename it to “slit wrists”

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Krysard.1364:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

blakdoxa.7520:

Krysard.1364:

Grimreaper.5370:

Corrupt boon most DEFINETELY needs a 3/4second cast time with a solid animation if its going to be on a 15 second cast timer.

The animation is already pretty obvious tho

This.
Necro rears back and lunges forward on the 3rd strike.

You’re talking about scepter autoattack. We’re talking about the Corrupt Boon skill… which has a really bad tell and too short casttime.

Similar to dagger#3 but with a green thingy in your hand

I.e. a really bad tell and too short casttime.

The dagger#3 cast is one of the most obvious non-DS animations a necro has

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Lol they are really trying to sugarcoat MoC if you don’t play necro you wouldn’t understand. Boons have always been on a rampage the only bad thing is that boon hate is become more present on necro only so far I would share some to war against protection and stability.

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Well good thing necros have a spell that sends all their condition to their opponents, right?

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Well good thing necros have a spell that sends all their condition to their opponents, right?

Not gonna waste any of these skills for this, but I can see a necro deliberately wasting CB for extra healing with ConsumeConditions

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Of course boons are completely out of hand (so are conditions though). But making boon removal completely out of control too is the worst thing to try to fix that.

Pretty much.
They refuse to acknowledge the major design flaws (like boon spam) that have crept into the game over time and just continue to band aid fix things.

As an example of why this is bad:
If they allow the boon spam to continue, and make necros the anti boon bot, they’re just enforcing a strong rock/paper/scissor game where builds matter more than execution. Hard counters against hard counters against hard counters does not foster skillful play.

I think they should take this a grain of salt. Boon removal is ok, we actually need that. But boon CORRUPTION, that’s another whole different story. More so in such frequencies. This comes into play for some reasons:

1. You can’t really control the boons on you in any giving team fight. So even when it is not your fault, you will get punished and most likely be heavy punish by having them.

2. The presence of conditions is very plentiful even in this meta. Two necros in a team will literally not only keep your opponents boon-less, but also full of conditions at all times.

3. The punishment is just too large. If they want to keep the boons at bay, remove them, making them useless, but also turning them into conditions is going to suck big time.

vana.5467:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Of course boons are completely out of hand (so are conditions though). But making boon removal completely out of control too is the worst thing to try to fix that.

Pretty much.
They refuse to acknowledge the major design flaws (like boon spam) that have crept into the game over time and just continue to band aid fix things.

As an example of why this is bad:
If they allow the boon spam to continue, and make necros the anti boon bot, they’re just enforcing a strong rock/paper/scissor game where builds matter more than execution. Hard counters against hard counters against hard counters does not foster skillful play.

It is also gonna result in an endless circle of pure powercreep…
“Boons get removed too fast? Better give more boon uptime”
“Boons too plentiful? More removal”

Etc.

MakubeC.3026:

I think they should take this a grain of salt. Boon removal is ok, we actually need that. But boon CORRUPTION, that’s another whole different story. More so in such frequencies. This comes into play for some reasons:

1. You can’t really control the boons on you in any giving team fight. So even when it is not your fault, you will get punished and most likely be heavy punish by having them.

2. The presence of conditions is very plentiful even in this meta. Two necros in a team will literally not only keep your opponents boon-less, but also full of conditions at all times.

3. The punishment is just too large. If they want to keep the boons at bay, remove them, making them useless, but also turning them into conditions is going to suck big time.

Pretty much. I think they should leave aa#3 with just condi removal, and then maybe add to one of the curses GM traits a “scepter aa#3 now corrupts a boon instead of removing it”

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Krysard.1364:

Crinn.7864:

Ya’ll do realize the corrupt boon applies conditions to the necro as well right? It’s not something the necro is going to want to spam on cd.

with traits you can spam to yourself perma bleed and nearly perma poison

Well good thing necros have a spell that sends all their condition to their opponents, right?

If only foes didn’t apply conditions as well you are describing a perfect scenario not that that condition transfer is underpowered but non necros tend to overestimate it’s effectiveness.

“let’s give necro insane access to boon corruption to deal with classes that spam boons, this totally won’t completely shrek builds with little access to boons and instead have key short duration boons like stability and quickness at all”

Get ready to literally never be able to pull off a stab stomp while a necro is present ever again

With this change you are granted to push all revenant builds out of the meta. All revenant builds rely on boons, non of them can handle the current condi pressure specially without resistance.

Jzaku.9765:

“let’s give necro insane access to boon corruption to deal with classes that spam boons, this totally won’t completely shrek builds with little access to boons and instead have key short duration boons like stability and quickness at all”

Get ready to literally never be able to pull off a stab stomp while a necro is present ever again

HAhahahahaha I love it!

Get ready to get absolutely steamrolled by your Reaper overlords.

Get your KY jelly ready

They should be fighting cause and not the effect -_-

Yes. Anet has always done knee jerk balancing. Apparently ever since GW1.

As a Necro main since launch, the Scepter auto change and the amulet deletions are unecessary. Corrupt Boon, I’d rather see keep the 40 second cooldown, but go to corrupting all boons.

Realistically, just making it so condition builds could do anything to Diamond Skin Tempests would be enough to shake up the meta, and that’s happening. Chronobunkers don’t handle condition builds well. Condition Reaper didn’t need a buff, what shut it out entirely needed changes.

A good counter to boon corruption might be better condition removal, but they would need to buff shout guard, and whatever other classes have lots of cleanses to be able to compete. Then you’d want to get another class that can kill the condition cleanser with physical dps.

This needs to be on the 1st page.

So the ONLY thing scepter does for Necros now is replace dagger/warhorn with scepter/warhorn.

I wouldn’t mind it if Necromancers didn’t have Signet of Spite and Signets of Suffering.

It’s called Power Creep, instead of reducing the sheer amounts of boon spamming going on, they increased the amount of boon hate.

Soon enough we’ll have so much stability CC will become useless and the cycle repeats again.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

vana.5467:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Of course boons are completely out of hand (so are conditions though). But making boon removal completely out of control too is the worst thing to try to fix that.

Pretty much.
They refuse to acknowledge the major design flaws (like boon spam) that have crept into the game over time and just continue to band aid fix things.

As an example of why this is bad:
If they allow the boon spam to continue, and make necros the anti boon bot, they’re just enforcing a strong rock/paper/scissor game where builds matter more than execution. Hard counters against hard counters against hard counters does not foster skillful play.

It is also gonna result in an endless circle of pure powercreep…
“Boons get removed too fast? Better give more boon uptime”
“Boons too plentiful? More removal”

Etc.

Unfortunately the only way to fix this would be to pull all the skills and rebuild them from the ground up. At least the quickest and most efficient. It’s like when you have too many mods enabled in a game, sometimes it’s just best to reset and rebuild from the ground up.

Total over reacting.

Consider how often a necro complete a full scepter rotation for the attach #3.
And lacks “precision”: the necro will remove the last boon every 3 seconds of successfull auto-attack, without any dodge or other cast in the rotation.

In short, a stationary turret necro (that does nothing else then spam AA), will reverse a boon every 3 seconds.

Totally over reacting for such a small buff. And a necro that does this rotation is really not a threat for almost anyone.

Talking about the corruption line, there are many factors that should be considered:
Corruption is a very double edge spec. Using a corruption skill while not having the condi clean/transfer CD ready, most of the time mean the loss of the fight.
Traited with MoC, the CD is reduces, but the self-condition application is doubled.
Talking as a necro, i’m still not sure about Corruption.. we’ll see.

I’m just worried about the boon spam increase since the game release.

my2cents

BaLzA.8902:

Total over reacting.

Consider how often a necro complete a full scepter rotation for the attach #3.
And lacks “precision”: the necro will remove the last boon every 3 seconds of successfull auto-attack, without any dodge or other cast in the rotation.

In short, a stationary turret necro (that does nothing else then spam AA), will reverse a boon every 3 seconds.

Totally over reacting for such a small buff. And a necro that does this rotation is really not a threat for almost anyone.

Talking about the corruption line, there are many factors that should be considered:
Corruption is a very double edge spec. Using a corruption skill while not having the condi clean/transfer CD ready, most of the time mean the loss of the fight.
Traited with MoC, the CD is reduces, but the self-condition application is doubled.
Talking as a necro, i’m still not sure about Corruption.. we’ll see.

I’m just worried about the boon spam increase since the game release.

my2cents

Honestly I know people see necros and rev’s as enemies, but I think a combination of rev mallyx and necro corruption would be absolutely wonderful. You’d have great boon removal between the two and the rev can also eat the condis on necro to give himself more resistance. In addition if the necro took a couple of shouts he could help keep the rev clean by taking trooper runes without the need of a shout warrior or guardian. Could also just take plague signet to help pull potentially longer condis off the rev to send back. Just a lot of interesting interaction between the two that could arise if played properly.

BaLzA.8902:

Total over reacting.

Consider how often a necro complete a full scepter rotation for the attach #3.
And lacks “precision”: the necro will remove the last boon every 3 seconds of successfull auto-attack, without any dodge or other cast in the rotation.

In short, a stationary turret necro (that does nothing else then spam AA), will reverse a boon every 3 seconds.

Totally over reacting for such a small buff. And a necro that does this rotation is really not a threat for almost anyone.

Talking about the corruption line, there are many factors that should be considered:
Corruption is a very double edge spec. Using a corruption skill while not having the condi clean/transfer CD ready, most of the time mean the loss of the fight.
Traited with MoC, the CD is reduces, but the self-condition application is doubled.
Talking as a necro, i’m still not sure about Corruption.. we’ll see.

I’m just worried about the boon spam increase since the game release.

my2cents

I am surprised this got bumped up…

I have said it before in the thread, but let me say it again – it is not so much about the change to scepter, it is the introduction of MORE boon corrupt that worries me

Previously, we definately would find this overpowering… Now, not anymore – and this is only because boons are spammed

In the Dhuumfire era, Warriors would pop their Balanced Stance, and if memory serves correct, the only boons they would have maybe some might (thanks to blasting their fields), maybe swiftness thanks to the trait, but Stability for sure. It was a cat and mouse game for Warriors and Necromancers to bait their cooldowns, because a misuse of a corruption would result in getting stomped on.
Imagine if this change was due in that era… Three boons, easily corrupted… No way this would have stood, but now? Again, “no one cares” because there are so many boons…

I am overreacting because in the grander scheme of things, this seems like just a knee-jerk reaction to what is an issue [Boon Spam]

By the way, I do by no stretch of imagination say that the Dhuumfire/Hambow era was healthy

Edit minor note, Scepter is not the only thing that gets and got changed… This is not a start, neither the end

Corruption has was been under powered. On professions that generate a consistent amount of boons (ele, rev, engineer) the corruption was little more than inconvenient. It never truly kept these builds humble. However it also over performed against professions that do not generate a lot of boons, and the boons they do generate they need to be effective. (Warrior’s fury.)

The nature of boon farting also was creating members within the player base who were having inexperienced play styles smoothed over, and still allowing them to ‘win.’
I don’t want to see boon heavy users removed from the game, but I do think it is fair they are going to have to lift their game and not fall back on boons to survive. It essentially only people who want to play ele or engineer will play them and understand them.

As a necro main I don’t really like the fact that we are getting this buff after bunkers are all getting nerfed. It will put us in a position where it would make us arguably too powerful, of course necromancers still are susceptible to heavy cc and focus (but what class isn’t). We should be condition monsters, but having that much access to boon corruption will make condi spam near unstoppable especially with bunkers being nerfed into extinction.

Maybe if they make it a boon strip instead of corrupt it would be more balanced, as corrupts should be skills that you actively try to get off at opportune moments to turn boons into condis for a spike, and should require a utility slot to prevent other builds from getting too powerful passively from an auto attack. I don’t want them gimping other builds that don’t need or use boon corrupt in order to balance it out which would pigeonhole necros into a boon corrupt cookie cutter build.

I have to agree with what a fellow Reaper said. The only thing that felt ridiculous was Diamond Skin, which completely locked us out of fights against Elementalists. Once that was dealt with, we were always going to have our own place in the new meta.

The solution here is boon strip, not corruption. I just wish devs see that before ruining what could be a nice balance patch.